I came across this film interview from a great post by Fred R. I have been using it to try to get through to so many of the disbelievers out there!
This is a sensible man, a former Fundalmentalist christian, a former Republican, who 'saw the light' and is warning of the reprecussions if this faction of unbalanced people are not 'turned around' or at best, ignored.
To all the mis-guided people out there:
I beceech you to watch this in its entirety, with an open mind. And if it doesn't make a bit of understanding in your stubborn heads, you are probably lost anyway.
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Comments: 231 ( 1 removed by Georgiana S. )
Have you ever been to New Jersey ? Nuff said...please do not drink the water.
excellant post...ty
i won't drink the water if these nut jobs will stop drinking the kool-aid!
ORANGE ......NICE POST !
And, I think that the VIDEO is very convoluted in its content. The speaker in this video sounds insane. I do not know what kind of Christianity he was raised with, and I do not believe that those that think Obama is the anti-christ are Christians. In fact, I know they're not.
Now, I have to say that this short clip on what he (the speaker) was brought up thinking and what he was led to believe is very INSANE. But, Christian it is not.
Kennedy ~ an antichrist? How far out in la~la~land is that!
'Crazy for God' described my experiences. I dropped out of most organized religion many years ago. I think of myself being more spiritual and linked to the one God than tied to any religious organization.
Then there is my sister who seems to be one of those "birthers." This is all so insane. Why can't these people simply accept the facts? I am totally baffled.
Thanks for this post, Georgiana.
I never argue with anyone whose 'elevator doesn't go to the top floor' which includes nutjobs and religious nutjobs.
the only news on was FOX...and people at breakfast were saying..
obama won't even admit he's a muslim...
couldn't get back here fast enough.
Marylin manson, that is not the Manson the comic was referring to as marylin manson was not around then1 I knew Charlie, you wouldn't want to be on his side!!
What about the 'magic spectacles' ?
You cannot organize village life around the village idiot. And we have a village idiot in this country, the fundamental Christians...
Bush is to blame, again, in oliver stones film "W" it shows how Bush was NOT at all religious, he kow-towed to the Religious Right to garner votes. He spoke Spanish to garner their votes, but I bet he still treated his Tex-Mex workers like shit.
There was a time when the church (all of them) believed the universe revolved around the earth and when the facts showed otherwise the church kept denying it. It took several hundred years for them to admit the facts.
I have to agree that those that are not of this culture should move past them and quit trying to argue sanely with people who will not hear.
Jesus and God did NO writing. It was men. Why can't anyone see that?
In hindu religions we have the caste of the untouchables burying the dead...
GOD speaks to each and all of us 24/7 via our INtuition, it's past time to begin paying attention, we need not preachers and their books to inform and enslave us ... the Truth shall set us free ... I know this, it has me.
As to "It is Christ alone who is given ALL the credit," you are making the grand mistake of virtually all so called "Christians" in placing Jesus on a level with God. For however wonderful and miraculous Jesus was, He was still the son of OUR FATHER, just as we are the sons of "OUR FATHER who art in heaven." Jesus was God only in the sense that since we are incapable of knowing or understanding or ever "seeing" God, Jesus is our closest "image" of God. Just some ideas for you to ponder.
I realize that one needs a "certain" interpretation at times to justify their "belief systems" ... in "that" regard, to each their own. :-)
The fact that some relative few have become renowned and famous, with books written about them and large, even great, followings, does not to me indicate that they are special above potential others who may have never become so recognized, but who yet may well hold comparable, or even greater, truths.
To me the Spirit is available to everyone direct and INternally, what they then do with it is up to them, personally, I would never want to be so "famous" as to have a "religion" formed around me or even my ideas ... but that doesn't mean that my ideas are not as worthy as many who have had such associated with their name(s) ... IMnsHO
I think that you have done remarkably well in "touching" with the diety and getting an understanding of things that are not as obvious as a "billiard ball." Jesus never said, for instance, "I think so and so..." or "It seems logical that..." or "Wouldn't it be great if we..." No, Jesus simply stated facts which one accepts or doesn't. This is the difference.
I know that you do not see things this way, but I suggest that you think about it and see if this might suggest to you another approach that is equally valid with your own.
To my way of thinking, it is the granting of exceptional-ness to these mentioned individuals, that promotes the forming of Religions around them ... which in turn conflicts with "competing" views held by other "groups".
This God that I speak of, Donald, has never grown in a physical body like humans do, and humans have never lived in the emptiness of the Void like this God does. Living in the Void, it is not possible to lie to yourself without dying, whereas living within the care of this God, it is possible to lie to yourself without dying, and therein lies the biggest differences of all between understanding a human and understanding God.
Jesus, Abraham and Muhammad were all "hybrid elementals", which is a specific life design that God developed for use on this planet. There are five primary humanoid life designs of Understanding: Balanced, which is about 90% of the human population; and four hybrid life designs: Balanced with Will, Balanced with Emotion, Balanced with Imagination, and Balanced with Memory. Any of the hybrid elementals can and has been used as a prophet/teacher to speak for God and introduce new spiritual concepts onto this planet.
All life starts off as Balanced, and may possibly grow later to become one of the hybrid elementals, which is more or less a specialist of understanding in that particular direction of study while sacrificing some of the benefits that come from having a perfectly balanced growth of all of one's own elements of life. For example, a Balanced with Emotion hybrid would be naturally more emotional, but have less willpower, imagination and memory to work with than someone who was Balanced. These hybrid life design forms most certainly CAN be understood just by understanding yourself and what you're made out of, but most people don't tolerate such obvious and colorful personality differences in other people. And large hybrid elementals do stand out in the crowd as something significantly different from "the norm". However, they start off as human, and as far as the hybrids are concerned, they still are human, just not as "bland and boring" as a Balanced personality :-)
"that promotes the forming of Religions around them" is what I am talking about above. But in reality, they are not "forming Religions around them" but are forming social paradigms under the guise of religion that are suitable to their own perceived (and very limited) view of what religion is about. Others (such as yourself) realize this and unfortunately tend to "throw out the baby with the bath water" by equating these bastardizations of religion to religion itself. The natural consequence of this logically, I think, is to also reject religion as a natural aspect of the universe and the place of man in that universe out of a need to expose those pretenders who stand behind the pulpits in self righteous dignity to "lead the masses into the 'right path'.
To me, it takes a high degree of self integrity and sharpness of insight to pull away from this natural reaction against the obvious denigration of religion as a natural occurrence by placing it squarely in the hands of those usurpers behind the public, thus surrendering to them rather than fighting to wrest the mantle of religion from them.
The material part of the universe isn't an illusion... it's a physical manifestation, a metaphor, an idea of God's that he wanted to explore by externalizing it rather than try to continue to explore it internally. It's comparable to what people do when they write out their thoughts in a journal so that they can analyze their own minds a little more clearly and from different angles of perspective.
Balance is just what you're made of: Understanding, Will, Emotion, Imagination and Memory. The specific measures and types of each can vary like food for a recipe, only it's food for thought instead. And the "recipe of you" plays a large role in your own "natural" course of studies, experiences, perceptions and personality. A hybrid is made of a standard Balance of the above life elements, and then spends a comparable amount of time in the "specialty" studies... for example, an Emotion hybrid usually grows their first 8-10 years of life as standard Balanced, and then the next 8-10 years of their life as pure Emotion in their own experiences and understandings, to complete their personal growth of understanding as a hybrid elemental at the age of 16-20. At that time, they are able to explore other people and ideas beyond themselves to continue growing, but they will always have a bias in emotion and will prefer to live there if they can.
Jesus was a good example of a fairly large Emotion hybrid elemental. People who are hybrids do have "psychic gifts" that are directly due to their overbalance of specialty, but these "psychic gifts" are something that standard Balanced people can grow into themselves when they've reached a comparable level of Emotion growth, for example. It just takes them longer to reach the same point of "psychic gifts" because they're trying to grow everything at once as standard Balanced rather than just one thing.
n. 1. a. an empty space b. a vacuum 2. The state of nonexistence
adj. 1. containing no matter; empty
Sorry, Donald, but God isn't one of the dictionary definitions of a Void. And I just can't bring myself to equate God with the idea of nonexistence. That's just makes no sense to me.
Of course I understand that this is my own view and not yours. I suspect that you are still trapped in the mental state of "naive realism" that pervaded science until Einstein and is not rejected except by the common view. What Jesus IS or WAS is part of a vastly more complex picture of reality than we are at present able to even think about. But I suggest to you that if you read simply the story of Jesus (not the pick and choose version you were probably brought up by hearing from preachers or so called intellectuals who never read it for themselves, only conjectured in ignorance and predisposition) you can ascertain a wonder that is truly startling and awesome. No Christian today appreciates this even though they profess to. They simply bleat out subservience out of ignorant obedience so as to assuage their sense of insecurity. Just one view.
Sort of like unconditional love, huh, Jerry?
LOL, hardly, Donald, but I will continue to allow you to believe that about me. I don't mind being trapped within a wealth of "common sense".
Oh, and by the way, when you point out that Jesus never wrote anything but was recorded by others, that is true of everything -- or almost everything -- that we know about our history from a long ways back. But that doesn't mean that what was written down wasn't fairly, if not absolutely, accurate. In fact, we know from studying tribes in the remote regions of Africa, that when people have been deprived of the ability to read and write, they often developed remarkable memory recall and could and can commit to memory precise recollections of events and transmit them orally to others, thus passing down information to subsequent generations. Tribes in Africa (especially pigmies) do this regularly. The Koran was not written at the time but was passed down precisely this way and in a concerted way. While I am perfectly willing to admit some amount of "tweaking" to the Biblical stoy as written, I maintain that the story is basically and remarkably accurately as recorded in spite of the "tweaking." My reason: The Bible account (especially of Jesus) is something I read and judged on my own without undo interferrence by the interpretation of others, especially clerics. I am also a writer and what I consider unusually astute. But the story of Jesus, for instance, is simply too profound and too awesome and contradictory to what one might try to "imagine" in concocting a fictitious story that no writer or group of writers are capable of imagining. In fact, to me one of the saddest parts of our modern world Christianity is how little they understand of what Jesus was all about and said. They ignore much of what he said or distort it based on their own predilections. It is stimply too powerful and deep in context to be understood not only "then" but today. So sad.
I didn't say that about Jesus... I just said I've never met him to be able to judge the truth of him for myself. Have you met Jesus? Or do you just take everybody else's word for it that he is exactly who they claim he is without verifying the truth of their claims for yourself? I mean, I realize that's a very "common sense" attitude that you probably don't bother with in your "higher" whatever that is...
The "Poll" he cites does not give the methodology. Any poll can be skewed by the way the questions are asked. Since he doesn't even name it one should reject it out of hand. As far as the "Birthers" are concerned, Obamas own half brother said he was born in Kenya, and he has spent upwards of $950,000 of DNC money to keep everything hidden, including his years at Occidental College, and his grades at Harvard, you have to wonder whats going on.
As far as Mormon "nutjobs" as you call them. I recall the "Mormon helping hands" giving relief to flood victims in ND,MN and LA. I would sure like to have some of those "nutjobs" next time a disaster happens in my neighborhood. Isn't that what true religion is all about, helping your fellow human beings in time of trouble? You should think twice about a cartoon character saying something and accepting it as truth.
I'll be back to comment after watching!
HUGS to you Georgiana!
Looks to me like just another egomaniac, with a messiah complex, tooting his own horn, and hatin' on those who won't bow to him.
YOu still believe literally in what the Bible says, which is not the way to do it1 Whey don't you believe unconditionally in Nostradamus or some other fable. Aesop is always revelent!
Christ was a guy, a reactionary he woeked a crowd well and believed his own infallibility, he did not die on the cross, he was removed way before the normal three or so days it takes to die, suffocate from having all your weight on your arms, he was whisked off to India, where he spent the years between 12 and 29 and then died in Kashmir at the ripe old age of 86.
This can be proved, take DNA from his relics in his tomb. Proof! Not a book written by men some 350 years after the time of Christ.
Honest, someone that believes "channelings from The Group of Forty of various beings, archangels and Mary Magdalne, etc. Lord's Kuthumi and Kirael . . ", is hardly in a good position to ridicule those who believe God can do supernatural things. Obviously, you believe SOMEBODY can do supernatural things yourself, so, your charges amount to nothing more than hypocrisy, as far as I can see.
Think, reason, don't parrot out words you think have some magical power to them, power is only in things of the natural world.
I don't need to repent for anything as it is all part of a persons learning experience. Salvation comes when you realise it!
"I think the Bible is an interesting collection of thoughts and stories designed to placate the masses."
Oh, well why didn't you say so? I mean if YOU think that, what in the world more is there to the matter? ; )
He is not debunking The Book/Bible. In his own book, Crazy for God, and a couple others he wrote, he confesses to the big lie, he, his father, and others perpetrated for political gain of power, etc...
He, over time began to realized the fraud of it, and he rejected what the fundementalists were doing.
He's been attempting to help undue the damage that he helped do to our country, and Chrisianity.
I have absolutely no interest in who founded any fundamentalist anything. I have never listened to, or cared about such groups, and if Mr. Schaefer did some crazy stuff, I don't consider him an authority on sanity. Maybe he's still crazy . . .
I'm just saying he ain't a follower of the teachings of my Lord, but a ridiculer of him. I don't care what he calls himself, he can't both be a disciple of the Christ in that Book, and denounce what Jesus taught, to my simple mind ; )
Be still and know that I am God comes to mind. That is meditation, not congregating over some pot luck dinner in a brighly lit hall paying $ into a basket to pay for the minister!
So did Jim Jones. Somebody pass the Kool-aid to John, I think he needs a refresher course on how to create a common cult.
However, he seems to have fallen into the trap of projecting all his fears -- and all our fears -- on one group of people. For example, in his blog he writes:
Former president Jimmy Carter went on the record to point out that he believes that racism is at the heart of the great deal of the extreme animosity being leveled at President Obama (NBC News September 15). Carter identified himself as a Southerner with an insiders understanding. There's something he didn't mention however: the special culpability of his own religion -- Evangelical Christianity -- for the anti-Obama hyperventilating and furious reaction to our first black president. And that reaction has less to do with race and more to do with the ugliest side of religion.
The fact is that if you're going to blame one group above all others for the willful ignorance and continuing ugliness of the response to President Obama the best candidate would be the evangelical/fundamentalist community. The angry part of the South Carter spoke of is racist because it's dominated by a certain type of "Christian" culture.
Since Carter is also an evangelical Christian (as well as a Southerner) he would have done well to use his evangelical insider status to point to not just racism but to scream bloody murder about a bigger problem today: the hijacking of Christianity as the source of the hate and anger directed against all things "other" by a vocal (and health care lobby-organized and funded) angry minority of voters who are poisoning the American body.
I find it hard to believe the Christian right is in bed with Big Pharma, though I'm willing to believe that corporate lobbyists will grab any momentum they can steal.
More fundamentally, I do not believe that all opposition to Obama or Democrats or, heck, change itself, is orchestrated by an evil cabal of greedy capitalists and priggish zealots.
Call me foolish...
Shira
Sigh. As long as we persist in "explaining" problems by positing conspiracies "far beyond our ability to comprehend", we will not get far toward solving those problems. This is a VERY old habit in America, as Hofstadter pointed out during the height of the McCarthy madness. His article is still available at http://karws.gso.uri.edu/jfk/conspiracy_theory/the_paranoid_mentality/the_paranoid_style.html
The "paranoid style", sometimes called conspiratism, pops up on both sides of the political spectrum, btw.
In any case, if that is what this discussion is about, I won't be participating further. Much as I disagree with the religious right, I consider them HUMAN BEINGS with human problems they are trying to solve in more or less effective ways. Better to try to solve those problems than to assign blame.
See you around in other discussions, maybe.
The "they" are everyone from the Illuminati and corporate whizzes. The white Supremisists see a take over in politics by getting the backing of these FOX nut jobs and are using the Republican party, which has no platform as such, to promote their insane agenda.
An extremely interesting read I must say ... I love all of the research the man went through in order to come up with that ... reminds me of a "think tank disinformation" project ... which I would not be at all surprised to find that it was/is ... that being a continuing function of those who actually do control us ... it is our own thinking that they seek to first and foremost control, then everything falls into place "naturally" with those such as yourself acting as the "sane" peer pressure that keeps the rest of us in line, your being in effect the "agents" of the "system" ... which is all good and on the up and up to you folks ... unless of course it somehow affects you adversely personally, at which time you may question, but your idealogical convictions will keep you restrained from really suspicioning ...
Naturally the article, as all good ones would, looks at "both" sides of the question and makes some comparisons ... some valid, and many not so valid, it is easy for me to recognize the over-all tone of the claims and especially the "insinuations" intended ... very cleverly done, but never the less disingenuous.
IMnsHO.
PS ... but I did bookmark it to my favorites for future reference.
The existence of counterfeit money, does not render the logical conclusion that there's no such thing as genuine currency ; )
Believe in yourself, and you'll find your own way to God naturally. No belief in a book or in any other person has ever been necessary.
john and I are old debaters (?) on this subject. He has dug his toes in and sees god and jesus sitting down with a quill and parchment and writing this book! Time lines mean nothing to him either, the world is as old as he can comphend and all sorts of beings, like talking snakes are so much more real than the elements of religions eons older than Christianity!
"Really, you can't argue with another person's imagination, especially when their imagination is based on a book that they didn't ever write or experience for themselves."
Hey, that's cute; Pretend the other person is arguing based on imagination, with NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER in reality-land.
Did you see me do that in your crystal ball, perhaps ; )
We have read the bible, you on the other hand have not read any other literature relating to god consciousness, kind of one sided isn't it?
light weights are lighter than air with is ethereal and not weighted down with mundane things.
". . you on the other hand have not read any other literature relating to god consciousness"
And you read that in your crystal ball too, O Dreamliver ?
Hey, that's cute; Pretend the other person is arguing based on imagination, with NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER in reality-land."
When you live by the sword....
Scratch the "maybe" out and we have a perfect description of John himself ... try looking in the mirror sometime John.
The "Religious Right" will always associate God with being a who rather than a what. In this way they can personify God and use God to manipulate their own agendas on a personal level.
If god had a personage, he would scare the bejeesus out of all of them. The power and energy would be beyond their comprehension.
I don't worry too much about the literalness though. The first thing I discovered when I was talking to God was that the Bible was completely worthless for trying to understand and describe that personal experience, but all of my science books were invaluable to me, chemistry and physics especially, for giving me a good grounding in rational, tangible, "real world" concepts that I could immediately apply and relate to on a personal level.
(I was just laying the groundwork in case any "contested" you from a "scientific electrical position" ... a "realm" I spent my working life in)