I don't know how long I've been saying this, but it's been a while. Pres. Obama is not really fighting with the GOP over the health care bill, he's fighting with the "Blue Dog" Democrats, and using the GOP as a "straw man." His true problem is that he's energized a whole new bunch of opposition "community organizers," and he doesn't know how to deal with it. He seems passive-agressive, claiming to want to listen to "other ideas," then attacking those with other ideas. This is what political infighting looks like, in the Obama Administration.
If it were just the conservative GOP he was fighting with, there would be no "reaching out." It would be like one big party, as the MSM cheered on, and laughed at the "partisan" opposition, who had no power. If this was is a "mainstream" Democrat bill, most liberal Republicans would support it, as well. The fact that even Sen. Snowe is reserving judgement says volumes.
It looks as if the problem is with the same people who defected from the GOP over the past four years, and their reasons are the same: too much government spending, and intrusion into the "free" economy. These people were fed up with Pres. Bush, for the same reasons they dislike Pres. Obama now. I'm sure the lefties were happy to count the poll numbers as support for their agenda, but it wasn't. It was a "they're all the same" mentality, reasoning that Pres. Obama would have to be fiscally conservative, in the economic circumstances he was elected under.
Well, he has not fulfilled those expectations. In fact, he's multiplied the deficit to the point where blaming it on Bush wears thin. This has caused the rise of the "tea party" movement, which crosses party lines, and definitely includes many formerly left-leaning independents. Candidate Obama sold himself as all things to all people, an alot of them bought it. He is now displeasing his left wing, as well as "swing voters," or independents. He has put conservatives squarely in "the opposition," and tried to dismiss them.
Unfortunately, many Democrats and independents are asking the same questions that the conservatives are, and they want answers before the bill is passed, this time. Every major bill that's been passed under the Obama administration, and some that predate it, has come under criticism for legislators not knowing exactly what was in the bill they voted on, much less the public. Most of the "tea party" people just want a little transparency in their government, and they certainly aren't getting the level of it that Obama promised.
This is a battle royale within the Democratic party, but the party leaders seem to think that they work in a vacuum. While Obama talks to Pelosi and Reid, none of them can tell the American people what will be in this bill. Sen. Max Baucus, Democratic chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, says "President Obama and I are on the same page," whatever that means. His constituents won't be satisfied with that, I can assure you. (or at least jJack won't-chuckle!)
"Community organizing" is a two-way street. It looks to me as if the shoe is on the other foot, now that we have a truly "liberal" president, and liberals have become "the man" that citizens protest against. As the agenda unfolds, look for Obama's approval to decrease. Pres. Bush poked his base in the eye on several issues, both before and after 9/11. Pres. Obama seems to be doing something similar, but he's not getting credit from the people he's trying to "kiss up" to.
Bush held the independents long enough to get re-elected. Will Obama fare as well? He may have smaller majorities in Congress, after the '10 elections. Bold liberal programs may not be helpful to staying in power, but they're what's on the table. Let's see what happens. How committed is our president to the "left-wing" agenda, and what about the rest of his Democratic Party?
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Comments: 80
Any member of the GOP who signs on to Obamacare is dead at their next election.
So, what's the wake-up call? If they won't listen to 73% of doctors, and 77% of American voters, what's is going to be? Do we canvass? Do we have to go to the barricades again, because I still have my anti-tear-gas kit from the sixties?
That doesn't jibe with the polling I have seen. The American people are against the President's "plan" and his changing explanation of what's in it. Obamacare is heading th U.S. toward government run health care, and the Americans don't want a system like Canada or the UK.
"If not now, when? If not us, who?" A gutless Congress (Including most of the Dems., not just the Blue Dogs) running for cover, & not wanting to admit that big biz lobbyists are the tail wagging their dog.
Were it not for the constant barrage of rightwing lies throughout the month of August, rest assured that the vast majority of the population would be firmly in favor of a public option, as they have been since the end of WWII.
Now, while the majority still favors this plan, the numbers are a bit smaller, and there is a great deal of leariness out there. The republicans have succeeded in lying so huge, once again, that they've managed to confuse and terrorize a segment of the population, as usual.
The fact is, however, whatever manages to get out of committee and hit the senate and house floors aren't likely to remain entirely intact as hammered out in committee anyway, so it's a bit early to call it a failure at this point, or to blame that alleged failure on either party or organization.
"Any member of the GOP who signs on to Obamacare is dead at their next election. "
In fact, the GOP is dead for at least another 40 years, if this passes and they did nothing but stand in the way, as usual. They did the same with Social Security, and it sent them into the wilderness for 40 years, and then they followed that up with the same with regard to medicare, and the only thing that saved them from another 40 years of oblivion was a criminal, highly unpopular war at the time, and a democratic president who stepped aside rather than seek re-election.
Rest assured, this will go down as the GOP's last stand. They will stand in the way along party lines, they will lose, and the American public will cast them aside once again.
Conversely, any blue dog democrat who votes against a public option is VERY likely to face a stiff primary contender as a result.
"Bush held the independents long enough to get re-elected."
Ok, first of all, in order to be RE-elected, he would've had to have been elected at all, and since we all know this wasn't the case, let's focus on his ELECTION in 2004 and your ridiculous assumption that he held independents long enough to make that happen.
In fact, we should all know full well by now, in spite of the fact that the "liberal media" failed to broadcast this news, that OH was stolen in 2004, in a very similar way to how FL was stolen in 2000. A republican governor, a republican secretary of state who just happened to be the head of Bush's campaign committee for that state, mysterious electronic voting machines that tabulated some truly bizarre, entirely inexplicable results, massive vote flipping overnight, tens of thousands disenfranchised and kept from voting altogether, etc.
The evidence is literally overwhelming that both elections were stolen. We're all big people here. We outta be able to call them exactly what they were. Let the "liberal MSM" continue to lie to the nation. We should respect one another enough here to not do the same in this forum.
There it is, the dumbest thing I have read this year.
You people isn't too bright, is you?
We country boys can smell a snake oil salesman a mile away, and we ain't buying anything he's sellin'.
haw, haw!
Ain't gonna happen. You got a bunch of corrupt bozos in Congress and a green (as in inexperienced) guy in the White House that are incapable of fixing anything that's broke.
Looking for a health care miracle is, as they say, a triumph of hope over experience. Sorry, Sam, no sale.
Randy, you need to find a different tune. Show some imagination and stay on topic.
Good thing nobody is proposing that then, I guess.
Btw, I, for one, would gladly take part in the government run health care system, and, none other than your newest wingnut hero, Joe Wilson feels the same way. As a retired military man, he has access to that phenomenol government-run system until he dies, and his 4 sons are all in the military presently, so they too, are benefitting from that amazingly efficient system.
Once you is on the gumment plan, thay got cha!
LOL! His ilk are still convinced that they were carted off to Syria while we weren't looking!
There is the real problem. Universal health coverage is something that most Americans want. It is truly sad testament to the Republican members of congress that they put their own election before the needs of their constituents. Where are the statesmen?
"most Americans want it" really means "I want it.
I think you is talikng on the points or some such.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92106731
Could it be that their blue dogs got fleas and they ain't gonna' be around for the vote? Maybe that 51 ain't no sure thing. Maybe them dogs got their fleas from the President of these Newnited states, and they is trying to get as far away from him as possble.
Hmmm! Could get real interesting.
Sometimes just forget how to talk to city people, because that is the way we talk to each other out here in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia.
Thanks for the reminder. LOL
That's funny because I've been reading their signs and their blogs and what-not, and they seem to be bitching and moaning about a lot of things, but government transparency isn't one that gets mentioned very often, if at all.
I don't see how that has anything to do with transparency. Transparency means that if the constituents want to know what their legislators are voting for, they can read the legislation for themselves.
As for the health care bill, at around a thousand pages, you still have to refer to several other pieces of legislation to find out what they're talking about. Even Democrat John Conyers said that with two lawyers helping him, he couldn't figure it out.
This might be funny, if nearly 4,500 Americans and over one million innocent Iraqi's hadn't been murdered because of that outrageous lie.
No, I won't lighten up on this needless slaughter of humans. Sorry.
Shares of U.S. health insurers rose broadly on Tuesday on hopes a health reform bill would not include a government-run option, which has drawn strong opposition from insurers who fear it would destroy the private marketplace.
The S&P Managed Health Care index of large U.S. health insurers closed 6.5 percent higher.
Aetna rose 12.6 percent, Coventry was up 12.7 percent and Cigna was 7.7 percent higher, all on the New York Stock Exchange. Centene rose 7.9 percent.
Health insurance executives who have poured money into the campaign coffers of Blue Dogs, Max Baucus, Chuck Grassley, Kent Conrad, Joe Lieberman and Susan Collins (as well as their political action committees) likely made all their money back in the one day rise in stock prices. The companies themselves, which hold huge amounts of their own stock, surely recouped all of their PAC investments on Tuesday alone.
You don't have to wonder whether Wall Street thinks Max Baucus' deal is great news for the health insurance industry's status quo: numbers like these don't lie. "
http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/07/28/health-insurance-stocks-soar-on-baucus-deal-news/
I have to say that I'm rather shocked that the GOP would be opposed to a bill that awarded greedy, abusive insurance corporations with future massive profits and a wide open door to continue raping and abusing their customers.
"If what people like you and Clark want were proposed, in clear language,"
Single payer, ala medicare for all. Simple, concise, hyper-efficient, enormously successful and popular, and already in place. Bingo. Done deal. Draft it and sign it.
I agree with Congressman Anthony Weiner -- " If they're not going to get a bill through that at minimum has a public option, then don't put the money into the system, and just regulate the insurance industry and make them change their ways."
The Public Option is really getting to be the elephant in the room and insurance companies have so far draped in a 'cloak of invisibility'. But it's so hard to hide something that big that it's sticking out all over the place.
I heard voices in the media today saying that "we should all back off and take whatever time required to get this bill right." That's encouraging because I think that the longer this goes on the more prominent the public option will become. The elephant will have time to wiggle out from under the cloak and everyone will spot it for what it is: The closest thing to a magic bullet we've got, and certainly the simplest thing we can do to fix things.
Instead of 'herding cats' (insurance companies) it would be like setting a saucer of milk down for the 'cats' and telling them if they want to drink any milk they've got to do a better job than the public option 'cat'. It's the carrot rather than the stick, and it's also us leading the insurance industry rather than us herding them, incentive rather than force, grace rather than strength. It's also us putting our government strength and skill where our mouths are, placing a bet that we can make a satellite system work and work well.
I think this is so genius that if this doesn't work I'll shut the government down myself.
This video is wonderful!!! --if in fact they can create a public option this simple and pure.
Watch it if you haven't already. Robert Reich talks about the Public Option: (2 min. 39 seconds)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBi8A_HutII
No, but it does have DEMOCRATIC support. Several congressmen support this, and it would gain massive support across the nation, if the "liberal MSM" would consider it as a plan worth discussing.
Instead, these democratic congressmen who support a public option began this debate by supporting single payer (medicare) for all, but immediately withdrew that and focused on a "public option." Now, since a public option can be morphed into a single payer system fairly easily, I'm ok with this, as are those democratic congressmen who'd initially been in favor of single payer.
The point is, the starting point in this debate SHOULD have been single payer, and the lowest bargaining consideration should be a public option. Instead, the insurance lobby has managed to remove single payer right off the bat, and is now driving us past the public option, right down to the "force tens of millions of people to buy more insurance from the same for-profit companies that are destroying us today" plan.
There HAS to be a strong public option, or no real reform will take place. The for-profit insurance companies have TOO strong a hold on this entire mess to allow anything short of that to come from all of this.
I think that part of any new healthcare plan should include a mandate that makes it illegal for these filthy, greedy sons of bitches to earn a profit from selling health insurance, just like every other civilized nation on the planet does. It's time to strip the power to kill away from these companies.
Like Thom Hartmann says, all these companies are doing is handing off money from one entity to another. There's simply NO reason for them to even exist at all, let alone earn enough profits for their CEOs to earn hundreds upon hundreds of millions of dollars, while denying coverage, killing people, and financially destroying families. They provide NOTHING except a transfer of funds. We do not NEED private, for-profit insurance companies AT ALL.
Btw, isn't this a bit infantile by now? Everybody knows that this was a code word that Lutz created for you wingnuts to use as a childish way to "villify" and "dehumanize" democrats.
You're not all idiots, even though you often behave like that. I know damn well that YOU'RE not an idiot, and I also know that not all republican congressmen and pundits are idiots, yet you all chirp out this childish, idiotic word as a childish, idiotic way to attach what Lutz told you is a negative connotation.
The word is "DEMOCRATIC," and you know that. What Lutz apparently failed to realize, when he gave you people this infantile marching order, was that it really makes you look like morons, because it leads people to believe that you really are too stupid to recognize proper English.
Aren't you the party that's always howling about there being a law to mandate that English be the language of the land? Learn it, and start using it properly, or move.
Unfortunately, after 28 years of very republican rule, this isn't going to be an easy task for Obama. I would liken it very much to what FDR faced, after republicans worked for 12 straight years on destroying this nation, before he came to power. By the time he arrived and set about to save capitalism from itself, the corporatists were VERY firmly entrenched, and didn't at all take kindly to having their power stripped back.
In fact, in the early 30's, some of them conspired to overthrow the white house, and install a fascist dictatorship in the mold of Hitler. It's been alleged that part of the reason that FDR was able to hammer through such a grand progressive agenda was because Gen. Butler testified before congress about the conspircy (this is a matter of record), and that FDR carved out a deal with the traitors, that they could keep their heads attached to their bodies in exchange for them allowing him to pass his progressive agenda.
Time will tell whether or not Obama can push the corporate fascists back once again, and there was a very bright sign yesterday, when the most recent addition to the SCOTUS issued a statement that questioned the legality and constitutionality of corporate personhood, the very constitutional violation that has set us to the brink of collapse over the course of the past 120 years or so.
Unfortunately, the previous POTUS put staunch corporatists on that bench, so it remains to be seen whether there's hope for democracy in this nation, but at least we have ONE SCOTUS justice who remembers the constitution.
But who is the one Justice who you think remembers the Constitution?
They've very rarely been a party that marches in lock step unison like republicans. I believe that the very nature of progressive idealism creates strong individualism in proposing and debating those progressive ideals. It's easy to march in lockstep when all you're ever proposing is more of the same. Not so easy when you're proposing massive, sweeping, long-term progressive change.
Interestingly, we're now beginning to see large divides amongst republicans as well, as the party tears itself apart over whether to continue following their racist, intolerant, bigoted, hateful core of regressives or carve out a new path for the party that actually has a future. Unfortunately, the only "leaders" that the party has today are those that are catering to the regressive racists.
"But who is the one Justice who you think remembers the Constitution?"
Sotomayor
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/9/17/783575/-Justice-Sotomayor-Questions-the-Foundation-of-Corporate-Personhood-from-the-bench
"They've very rarely been a party that marches in lock step unison like republicans." PUH-LEASE, Clark! You go on to cite times that they were as much in disarray as the Dems are now!
Hateful, bigoted, ignorant! I'm glad to see you're ignoring Obama's call for "reaching out" to the other side. "LMFAO"
I actually think it's healthy that we have mini civil wars in both the major parties.
Sotomayor? That's interesting, based on what though?
She's already stated her position on corporate personhood, as I pointed out, and that is unquestionably on the side of the constitution.
"Hateful, bigoted, ignorant! I'm glad to see you're ignoring Obama's call for "reaching out" to the other side. "LMFAO" "
Oh, I see...Because Obama is foolish enough to try to be bi-partisan and continue to reach out to this filthy, diseased republican party, we're supposed to just ignore the fact that the core of the party is racist, hateful, bigoted, and ignorant. Sorry, but that doesn't work. Every time one of their "leaders" opens their mouth, we get to see examples of the harsh reality of that collapsed party laid out bare. Not a pretty sight.
Robert Byrd: "White N-------" Fox News Sunday March, 2001