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by Renita P.
Member since:
July 26, 2006

New Hampshire Court orders Christian homeschooled girl to attend public school

August 27, 2009 04:55 PM EDT
views: 389 | comments: 148

This is a very very disturbing ruling, in my opinion. As most of you know, I am a homeschooler and I am adamant about homeschooling and know exactly why I DO homeschool

A NH court has ordered this child to go to public school because

a)she's too rigid in her Christian beliefs

b) she lacks "youthful characteristics"

c) she needed to be in group learning situations for problem solving skills.

Well, there are some seriously skewed things going on here.

First of all, is there something wrong with being a strong believer in  your religion of choice? I thought that was called freedom on religion that is one of our consitutional rights!  Would they have done the same if her religion of choice was something other than Christianity?? I wonder...

Secondly - lacking youthful characteristics - exactly WHAT does that mean? If that means that she is respectful, obedient, etc and not mouthing off or misbehaving, how is this a problem? I'm not sure what exactly they meant, but many homeschool children have a different set of standards. Certainly not all, but in my area, it's a big difference.

Third - the child was ALREADY attending public school for some activities. She was IN classroom situations regularly, so their whole load of garbage about needing to be in group learning situations is totally bogus.

There was also something said about the child becoming distressed when she was talking to the counselor about her faith and the counselor wasn't listening. They took that as her being so "rigid" in her faith that she couldn't accept others not believing as she does. Well, perhaps that was her reason, but I don't know any child who wouldn't get frustrated when they are talking to an adult about something that is important to them and have the adult not pay attention. That sounds like the counselor was TRYING to get her to be upset about it.

Sadly, what it sounds like, is that the divorced parents have a dispute. So, instead of working it out like mature, rational adults, they allowed their child to get stuck in the middle of their battle. However, it seriously concerns me that a court would rule such a thing against the custodial parent's wishes.  She was obviously doing fine academically.  I didn't think the school's job was to determine what was acceptable SOCIAL behavior. And, if it is, and what we see/hear about in alot of schools is what is deemed acceptable, then God help us all..... My viewpoint on this particular issue is coming from living in an area that has alot of social issues - drugs, sex, violence by 4th grade, etc.... Obviously not all areas are like this.

Here's the link to the entire story. There is a poll to vote in as well to get your opinion of which constitutional right is most "offended" by this ruling. I think they all are offended personally...

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Comments: 148 ( 1 removed by Renita P. )

Mooch -. Aug 27, 2009, 4:57pm EDT
oh wrong so very very wrong!
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Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 4:57pm EDT
I just posted this, and am absolutely outraged at this...however not really that surprised...I knew that homeschooling was getting ready to be attacked...and here we go....

I'm praying, and doing everything to get the word out....God says where two or more come together He will be there so let's join eachother in praying for this issue!!
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 5:02pm EDT
I was just going to email you to make sure you'd seen it. Yeah...I feel really bad for homeschooling parents where one parent doesn't agree. This could set a really horrible precedent.... *sigh*
Lots and lots of prayer needed.
Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 5:05pm EDT
I can tell you I won't be moving to New Hampshire any time soon!!

It is too bad that the judge is even putting the religion aspect into making his decision.
You are right about the horrible precedent...If they don't get rid of homeschooling altogether, we will probably have to teach our children about all different kinds of religions....which would definitely be better then outlawing it all together, but still I think the Government needs to stay out of the religious aspects...
River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 6:04pm EDT
if a situation is bringing harm to a child through lack of exposure to things they WILL have to deal with in life, it is harmful and they should not be allowed to persist in that situation.

don't you see, that its not about Christianity? in fact it being christian has nothing to do with it, as far as I can see. Get your head out of your persecution complex.
Elizabeth S. Aug 27, 2009, 9:12pm EDT
We don't expose children to many things they'll have to deal with later. We don't expose them to pornography or violence, for example.
I do think it was more to do with the one parent's belief following "normal" society standards than anything else.
Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 9:30pm EDT
River....

I would like to know how it's not about Christianity...when the judge found that the homeschool was working for the child in all areas except for the fact that her mother was a Christian who taught her daughter Christian principles and beliefs....


"A NH court has ordered this child to go to public school because

a)she's too rigid in her Christian beliefs"

Straight from the article:

"According to ADF allied attorney John Anthony Simmons, the court acknowledges that the girl in question is doing well socially and academically, but he adds that the court went too far when they determined that the girl's Christian faith was a "bit too sincerely held and must be sifted, tested by, and mixed among other worldviews."
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:41pm EDT
Yep.."doing well socially and academically" does not sound like a child who can't function well in society..
River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 9:49pm EDT
We don't expose children to many things they'll have to deal with later. We don't expose them to pornography or violence, for example.
it doesn't hurt their psychological development to not be exposed to porn.
it DOES hurt their psychological development to have no exposure to ideas that differ from their own.

Jenysie, you are missing the point.

the problem is not what the belief is, its the fact that she has no exposure to any other worldviews whatsoever. that is not healthy.

Yep.."doing well socially and academically" does not sound like a child who can't function well in society..
also missing the point.
thinking that a counseling session is the proper place to start preaching, is not a trait of being in the progress of learning to function in society.
being upset because someone disagrees with you or doesn't give you attention when you preach at them in the wrong time and place, is not a sign of normal functioning either.

the article linked makes it quite clear that she had no exposure to other worldviews.... thats not healthy... how do you think such a person would react, with no developed ability to deal with other ideas than their own... no "skin" against people disagreeing with them... when they go out and suddenly the world doesn't care, and 99% of the time, not only disagrees, but adamantly thinks they are wrong.

the poor girl would kill herself in a week.
Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 10:02pm EDT
I can't possibly believe you could be serious....

are you a homeschooling parent?

Do you know any homeschooling parents??

we do expose our children to different worldviews...from a Christian perspective most of the time, but they still learn the same world history, and they still watch the news...

You should take a look at some homeschooling curriculum...

Not to mention the fact that most homeschooled children are involved in a lot more "outside the home" activities...dance, soccer, basketball, baseball, football, art, music...etc....and guess what there are other people there...

Homeschooling is not where a child is restricted to home and home alone until they are 18...homeschoolers go on more field trips than public schooled children...they go to college more often than public schooled children, and it statistics show that homeschooled children become more productive citizens in the community....not to mention that their grades are higher....(statistics)

They learn the joy of learning and are not confined to a classroom filled with 50 other students...they get one on one help...and undivided attention....

Maybe you should do some research....

Not to mention that you are missing this part of the article:

Furthermore, Amanda attended her local public school to take art, Spanish, and P.E. classes. Her public school instructors also commented on the fact that Amanda was well-rounded in her social skills. But a sticking point arose concerning Voydatch's Christian faith.

hm....did you read that she was exposed to PUBLIC SCHOOL for some classes....
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 10:05pm EDT
River....again...did you NOT read where she already IS attending some public school classes? How is it that she is not being exposed to other views? Surely you don't expect that everyone in public school has her same belief and she is, therefore, still isolated from other views??

If the counselor started asking her about her beliefs, that would be an open door for her to discuss what she believes. Especially as a 10 yr old who feels that she's in the middle of a battle, which obviously she is - a battle between her parents who cannot agree on her education. It's not HER fault that her two adult parents can't work out a solution without putting her in the middle. Yeah, I think any 10 yr old kid would be 'rigid' about almost anything at that point.
Wyoming Catt (The Militant Midget) Aug 27, 2009, 11:04pm EDT
"Amanda tried to witness to the counselor and appeared "visibly upset" when the counselor purposefully did not pay attention."

Most children of strong faith already know to 'can it' if the audience isn't receptive. Same as if she was talking constantly about video games or her doll collection. Fanaticism is never pretty.

If there is no opposing views in her life, what do you think its going to be like for her when she goes to college? Gets a job? The definition of 'hell' comes to mind.

Insulating a child that thoroughly so that she feels she must "witness" to a counselor calls for intervention. No matter what her family's faith is, you don't go around trying to hammer it into other peoples' heads like that.

Besides, if the mother is that concerned that she have a religious environment while learning, send her to Catholic school.
Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 11:26pm EDT
Catholic School...she's a Christian
Lori F. Aug 27, 2009, 11:37pm EDT
Catholics are Christians.

Keeping her from normal contact with others and shielding her from the world are not going to help her.

I am all for homeschooling for the right reasons. To twist and dement your child would not be one of them.
River Walker Aug 28, 2009, 10:05am EDT
exactly my point Wyoming, that specific thing is a sign of a larger problem.

Jensie and Renita, fine, she has some public school classes.

now, why is her "christian faith" EVEN BROUGHT UP TO BE AN ISSUE, in art, PE or language classes?
hmm, maybe, with the other notation that she has no clue of time and place for such things... she brought it up when it didn't belong?

Renita P. Aug 28, 2009, 10:52am EDT
No, River, from what I read is that this whole issue of her religion has been brought up because her dad didn't agree with the mom homeschooling. The COURT used her religion as a reason to say she had to attend Public school full time. Again, if it's an educational issue, then fine. But the court doesn't have the right to infringe on anyone's right to believe however they believe and require her to go to a specific school setting IF, as it appears to be, her academic standards were meeting the state requirements. Religion should have never been brought into it. There are always plenty of kids who don't "fit in" during school-age years. Doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. It just means that kids don't know how to include all others. Didn't you know plenty of kids who just didn't seem to fit? That doesn't mean they didn't grow up to be intelligent, rational, well-functioning adults.
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Jodie B. Aug 27, 2009, 5:03pm EDT
Wow, that is horrible. It is wrong that the government thinks it can determine what's right for a child, when the parents are already doing a fine job.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 5:11pm EDT
Well, Jodie..it's the way the gov't is headed. If the UN Treaty on the Convention for the Rights of the Child is passed, parental rights are basically out the window. They have it worded nicely to make it look like it's just protecting kids, but when a gov't can tell me that I can't "ground" my kid, or can't take them to church if they don't want to go...well, that has just ruined my rights to do what I think is best for my child. I can understand when abuse is the issue, but weren't not even talking about that. We already have laws for that. Granted, they are flawed, but taking all parental rights away won't fix the flaws for the abused...
River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 6:06pm EDT
if a child thinks that its the appropriate time to preach at a counselor, during a counseling session, and gets visibly agitated at the counselor not listening to them, how can you say the parents are already doing a fine job?

that is clearly not a normal functioning situation, and it seems clear the people in charge of finding things out, found that she had a distinct lack of ability to deal with people who didn't agree with her, or act like she acts.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:08pm EDT
I think that if a counselor is purposely pretending not to listen to a child, it would make any child agitated... Children should be made to feel that what they have to say is important even if the adult doesn't agree. But to pretend to ignore what they are saying is not right. But likewise, why is it right for the GOVERNMENT to tell a parent that a child cannot feel that way. The gov't doesn't control our freedom of religion. Obviously the child's father DOESN'T believe the same way so I'm sure she would have been exposed to both belief systems right there.
River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 10:00pm EDT
I think that if a counselor is purposely pretending not to listen to a child, it would make any child agitated...
where in the article did it suggest that was the case?
what came to mind when i read that part,was that probably, the girl started preaching, and the counselor didn't reflect utter agreement and approval at what she was saying, listening intently and agreeingly.
to someone whos never experienced someone NOT agreeing, a dead-neutral "listening" would come across as ignoring or even attacking.

Children should be made to feel that what they have to say is important even if the adult doesn't agree.
I disagree. they shouldn't always be made to feel that what they have to say is important, because it isn't always important.
they should be given a chance to make a case when its appropriate, but they should know when to shut up.
myself 15-20 years younger would be appalled at my saying this, but sometimes "because I said so, now be quiet" is the right thing for a child to hear.

But likewise, why is it right for the GOVERNMENT to tell a parent that a child cannot feel that way.
thats not what I read to be going on.
a child needs to know when its the right time and place to voice an opinion, and they need to be able to deal with others having other opinions than their own.
the article made it clear, to me, that this girl had NO clue of when it was the right time to discuss certain things, when the person who they are talking to's actions signal "this isn't the right time/place" and to act accordingly..
it seemed obvious that the whole PROBLEM is that she had no coping skills for encountering/dealing with people who didn't share her opinion. and thats BAD. it is harmful to have no coping mechanisms for dealing with people who disagree with you.

Obviously the child's father DOESN'T believe the same way so I'm sure she would have been exposed to both belief systems right there.
I might agree. ... if the article hadn't said that SHE FEELS LIKE HER FATHER DOESN'T LOVE HER BECAUSE HES A DIFFERENT RELIGION!
Lori F. Aug 27, 2009, 11:38pm EDT
I agree with River.
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Katharyne T. Aug 27, 2009, 5:10pm EDT
I hope the parents are apealing and get a better lawyer, or start digging up the laws themself. I know alot of parents that homeschool and seen alot of fights in courts, mostly over curicullum stuff, credits and such. Never on religion.. I would take this way into court
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 5:12pm EDT
I think the underlying root is that the mom wants to homeschool, the dad doesn't want her to and since they are divorced, the dad took it to court. All because he doesn't agree with his daughter's religious beliefs.
Katharyne T. Aug 27, 2009, 5:21pm EDT
as long as the mom is following the homeschooling laws of her state, religion shouldnt be an issue. The focus should be education not religion
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 5:22pm EDT
I absolutely agree. Freedom of Religion should mean that they CANNOT focus on religion in this case or others like it.
River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 6:08pm EDT
I saw nothing in that article that had any dispute about religion.
it isn't about religion.
its about lack of socialization and ability to deal with, analyze and be in the presence of differing opinions.

religion is NOT the issue. the article made it clear as day to me, that the issue is that she was not being socialized in critical ways. such as being able to deal with other viewpoints.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:08pm EDT
No, River... she was IN some public school classes already so obviously she had been socialized with these kids already.
Wyoming Catt (The Militant Midget) Aug 27, 2009, 11:16pm EDT
"All because he doesn't agree with his daughter's religious beliefs." Meaning the other parent, the one who has equal say in the child's education. Or is his input not important since its not 'believer' motivated?

"obviously she had been socialized with these kids already"
Which of her friends did this article mention?
I doubt she had any real contact with the other children outside the classroom and, if she was insisting on preaching to a teacher, I seriously doubt she had friends in the few classes she attended.

The same thing would have happened if a kid was too much into hentai and insisted on discussing it with those who preferred otherwise. There'd be serious questions on his home life.

And that poll was skewed. It didn't ask if any right had been violated, but which one. Like polling "Did you have a boa constrictor or a python as a pet growing up?" They're going to get an answer they can use regardless of how you vote.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 11:20pm EDT
The article specified that she was attending some classes at public school AND stated that she was socially and academically doing fine. If they had made the ruling because of the 2nd parent who has equal say, that's one thing. But it specifically stated that the decision was made because she was too rigid in her faith and needed more "worldviews" I understand that the mediator had to step in for the father to have his parental rights heard. But, let THAT be the reason and not because of her "rigid" faith.
River Walker Aug 28, 2009, 10:08am EDT
No, River... she was IN some public school classes already so obviously she had been socialized with these kids already.
obviously something is lacking though, because theres no reason her religious faith should have come up in those classes. that it was a problem makes it seem like shes bringing it up inappropriately.

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Juan J Martinez Aug 27, 2009, 5:17pm EDT
There is an all out attack on religion and those that hold to it. From the ACLU attacking anyone who mentions GOD in schools to this. Having a storng Faith is not a reason to have your rights taken away from you.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 5:19pm EDT
Well, that's why I thought we HAD freedom of religion written into our Constitution. Apparently our gov't these days is above the constitution... very sad, very scary. My consolation is that I know MY GOD is in control! He is not surprised. It's just my humanness that doesn't get it!
Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 10:25pm EDT
Amen to that...last sentence...
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David C. Aug 27, 2009, 5:26pm EDT
I have not been home schooled nor have my kids. That being said, it seems that if the parents chose to home school their child, the government should stay out. If what you are describing is accurate then New Hampshire is way out of line on this one.
timi A. Aug 27, 2009, 8:38pm EDT
I guess, the child is caught between the two parents' feud about whether or not to homeschool. One parent agrees and another disagrees. It's so sad. I feel for the child.
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Denise W. Aug 27, 2009, 5:28pm EDT
I fear it is going to get worse alot worse.
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Sheri P. Aug 27, 2009, 5:34pm EDT
I agree, this is just the beginning of the government digging into everything we do..argh
Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 10:26pm EDT
i agree Sheri!
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Len Maxwell Aug 27, 2009, 5:38pm EDT
Do the parents have any legal recourse? Every state has guidelines for what home-schooled children are supposed to learn. If she met all the tests, it seems that the state has no right to do this.

From what you said I see the problem as being the "counselor." (S)he can put nearly anything into a report and the court will accept it because (s)he is obviously a trained professional and obviously knows more than a mere child.
timi A. Aug 27, 2009, 8:39pm EDT
The opposing parent gave the counselor the right to do whatever. If both parents were on the same page, this wouldnt have happened.
Len Maxwell Aug 27, 2009, 9:02pm EDT
Don't know the laws so I'll just step out of this conversation.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:10pm EDT
That's so true, Len. The "professional" counselor is going to be heard by the courts above all else, even if they might be the most extremist believer (or non believer) ever.
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Barbara M. Aug 27, 2009, 5:49pm EDT
While I don't think any child should be forced to go to public school if they're receiving a good, well-rounded education with homeschooling, there may be some facts that we aren't aware of. The red flag for me was 'she lacks 'youthful characteristics'. Personally, I would want more information before making a determination.
River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 6:11pm EDT
did you read the whole article? I think it contains some details this posting glosses over.

it seems abundantly clear to me from the article, that the girl in question was *NOT* getting a well rounded education.

I mean preaching at a counselor in the middle of a session and getting upset that they don't listen? I would bet that the counselor wasn't even "not listening" but more accurately not AGREEING. I could totally see how to a young person who had a sheltered upbringing, the distinction would not be clear.
Elizabeth S. Aug 27, 2009, 9:18pm EDT
Sorry, but 10 year old children get upset when the adult with them isn't listening.
It is never wrong for anyone to share their beliefs with others. IF she got upset with the counselor who was discussing the idea with her, that would perhaps show some rigidity. (gee, a 10 year old again), but she got upset with the adult who was judging her wasn't listening.
My daughter informed me at 10 years old that she was an adult. If I didn't believe her, I could ask any kid in her class at school. She held on rigidly to that belief until she actually became an adult.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:20pm EDT
exactly, Libby. ANY 10 year old is going to be visibly upset when an adult that is supposed to be listening to them is purposely pretending NOT to listen. Especially when she probably knew, at that point, that they wanted to force her into a school system that I'm guessing she didn't want to go to. Yeah...I'd say ANY kid would be upset under these conditions.
River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 10:07pm EDT
Sorry, but 10 year old children get upset when the adult with them isn't listening.
its reasonable for a 5 year old to get visibly upset when they are not paid attention to.
a 10 year old should know there are times to talk about certain things, and there are times where they need to wait, or whatever.
what you said reminds me of something my parents made a point of teaching me when I was little. if adults are talking, that I had to wait to say what I wanted to say.
if they are supposed to be discussing one thing, and the child insists on yammering on about something completely unrelated, it is not beneficial to them to be allowed to yammer on. its all about TIME AND PLACE.

It is never wrong for anyone to share their beliefs with others.
in a philosophical sense you are right. but the issue is a matter of TIME AND PLACE. there is a time and place for talking about certain things. and knowing when its the right time and place is important.

where are you people getting this "purposely not listening" idea? I realize you want to side with the kid, I would have felt the same way 15 years ago. but most likely the kid's perception of the situation was warped by inexperience and being sheltered. I saw NOTHING in the article that suggested the counselor was pretending to not listen.

but honestly even if they were, kids need to know the right time and place, and be able to deal with not being listened to.

Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 10:33pm EDT
straight from the article:

The court order stated: "According to the guardian ad litem's further report and testimony, the counselor found Amanda to lack some youthful characteristics. She appeard to reflect her mother's rigidity on questions of faith." The guardian noted that during a counseling session, Amanda tried to witness to the counselor and appeared "visibly upset" when the counselor purposefully did not pay attention."

don't believe me...check it out...

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=659638

7th paragraph...
Wyoming Catt (The Militant Midget) Aug 27, 2009, 11:22pm EDT
Purposefully, meaning she was curious to find out if her strength of faith would pose a problem for her in the real world. Obviously, it will if she doesn't learn self-restraint.

Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 11:30pm EDT
She's 10. Not yet an adult and not yet fully able to know when to stop saying things. I have a daughter who is 8 and I'm constantly still having to tell her to lay off of subjects sometimes. Same with older neighbor kids who come over. But... I don't see much self-restraint in the secular world.. lots of behavior that is completely lacking self-control from the same age kids... swearing, lashing out, hitting one another, etc. Again, their basis for the decision should have had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the fact that the 2 parents couldn't agree.
Wil B. Aug 28, 2009, 1:18am EDT
"straight from the article:"

Straight from the court order, which tells a somewhat different story:
According to the Guardian ad Litem's Further Report and testimony, the counselor found Amanda to lack some youthful characteristics. She appeared to reflect her mother's rigidity on questions of faith. Amanda challenged the counselor to say what the counselor believed, and she prepared some highlighted biblical text for the counselor to read over and discuss, and she was visibly upset when the counselor (purposely) did not complete the assignment.
There's a lot of other information in the court order that has (conveniently?) been left out of the article you linked to.

The father doesn't want his daughter to be home schooled. If, as stated in Simmons' supporting brief, the "Supreme Court has repeatedly affirmed that the 'rights of parents to make decisions concerning the care, custody and control of their children' are fundamental", then surely the father's right to make those decisions is just as fundamental as the mother's.
River Walker Aug 28, 2009, 10:13am EDT
Jensie, I apparently overlooked that point.
but I agree with Wyoming, if a 10 year old can't handle someone not paying attention to them... thats not good.
but it sounds like, from Wil's notation, that it wasn't even as you suggest at all.

Renita, I agree that a 10 year old would not have the awareness of subtle hints to shut up, that adults (theoretically) "should" have, but when I was 10 I sure as hell knew better than this girl apparently does.


Renita P. Aug 28, 2009, 11:20am EDT
Thanks for the info on the court order, Wil. But I guess I still don't understand why her religion came into the situation at all. It's obviously more of a parental dispute situation. I do believe the father should have a say in her education, of course. But my logical thinking is that if her academic standards were acceptable, and she was attending some public school classes, then both parents were getting what they wanted to a degree. I think a better compromise could have been made - for example, requiring her to attend public school history and science (just as an example on the courses), and letting her be homeschooled for the rest. Or something. I just think it was wrong for the court to allow religion to play any part of the decision process.
Jenysie Jane Aug 28, 2009, 3:56pm EDT
Renita I agree.
Wil B. Aug 29, 2009, 12:01am EDT
"Thanks for the info on the court order, Wil. But I guess I still don't understand why her religion came into the situation at all."

Apparently because it is part of the disagreement between the parents. But with regard to the decision about whether she should continue to be home schooled or not, the order said that religion wasn't a factor:
In reaching this conclusion, the Court is mindful of its obligation not to consider the specific tenets of any religious system unless their is evidence that those tenets have been applied in such a way as to cause actual harm to the child. The evidence in this case does not rise to that level, and therefore the Court has not considered the merits of Amanda's religious beliefs, but considered only the impact of those beliefs on her interactions with others, both past and future.
Based on the information provided in the order, it seems that religion came into it because it was part the mother's argument for reducing the amount of time Amanda would be allowed to spend with her father.
Renita P. Aug 29, 2009, 6:00pm EDT
Quoting: "but considered only the impact of those beliefs on her interactions with others, both past and future."

Anyone's religion SHOULD impact their interactions with others. As a Christian, if I behaved in a completely wicked & awful way to people, then that doesn't say much about my beliefs. I still see it as her religion being a factor...

Perhaps the mother could have/should have been more cooperative. Who knows - from this it's hard to tell which parent is being the most bullheaded and unreasonable. Surely most people could come to a better solution than causing a child to go through this type of legal process.. But, sadly, I know this type of stuff happens far too much.
Wil B. Aug 30, 2009, 12:35am EDT
"Anyone's religion SHOULD impact their interactions with others."

This little girl's beliefs seem to be impacting on her interactions with others in a bad way. Or at least bad in the eyes of her father, and in the eyes of the court.

"As a Christian, if I behaved in a completely wicked & awful way to people, then that doesn't say much about my beliefs."

If you were behaving in such an awful way because of your beliefs, then I would think that might say a great deal about your beliefs. And if you were a minor child, that sort of behavior, as well as those sorts of beliefs, might be of considerable concern to your parent or parents.

I agree that it would've been better if the parents could've worked out an agreement without the need for mediation and the court's involvement, but unfortunately they couldn't. I also agree that such situations are far too common these days.
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River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 6:00pm EDT
I don't neccesarily see the problem. I can see how it COULD be a problem, but I can also see how it could be 100% the right, legitimate thing.

is there something wrong with being a strong believer in your religion of choice?

if it hinders your functioning as a person, yes.

Would they have done the same if her religion of choice was something other than Christianity??
why would you assume otherwise, if it was a problem?
and if you were offered to say where the line is, I bet you'd put it in a far less generous place than the line probably was in this case...

If that means that she is respectful, obedient, etc and not mouthing off or misbehaving, how is this a problem? I'm not sure what exactly they meant, but many homeschool children have a different set of standards. Certainly not all, but in my area, it's a big difference.
if if if.
what IF it means that a 12 year old is acting, and has the mental/emotional "wear"/"aging" of a 90 year old? that is wrong. that is unhealthy. that is cruel and destructive. would you agree, if that were the case, that it was a problem?

There was also something said about the child becoming distressed when she was talking to the counselor about her faith and the counselor wasn't listening.
what if this means that she was unable to comprehend, or deal with the concept of another person not agreeing with her? that it gave her severe problems to be exposed to someone who simply didn't agree. not that was attacking her, or degrading her beliefs, but simply didn't agree. if THAT were the case, would you not agree that her current situation was NOT preparing her for a functional life?

Well, perhaps that was her reason, but I don't know any child who wouldn't get frustrated when they are talking to an adult about something that is important to them and have the adult not pay attention.

you are seeming to assume it was something wrong with what the counselor was doing. IF it was not a matter of the adult not listening/paying attention, but one of simply not agreeing and confirming her belifs, that she felt like she wasn't being listened to, because someone didn't agree? thats a problem.

I didn't think the school's job was to determine what was acceptable SOCIAL behavior.
part of the purpose of schooling is to help teach a person how to function in the world. if they were determining that the girl's current education was not doing so, how is that not reasonably within their role?

-------

" The guardian noted that during a counseling session, Amanda tried to witness to the counselor and appeared "visibly upset" when the counselor purposefully did not pay attention.(the article)
that imo, is a sign, rightfully, of something not being right with the girl's education. she should be able to comprehend that preaching at a counselor like that is not the right time or place for it, and be able to handle someone not paying attention to her preaching. especially when its done in the wrong time/place.

The guardian also noted that Amanda's relationship with her father suffered because she did not think he loved her as much as he said he did due to the fact that he refused to "adopt her religious beliefs."
you don't see that as a problem?

.Amanda would be best served by exposure to different points of view at a time in her life when she must begin to critically evaluate multiple systems of belief and behavior."
you don't see a problem with a child being raised in a situation where they are ENTIRELY unexposed to any differing points of view or behaviors?
people need to learn how to deal with people not agreeing or acting like THEY determine is right. they need to reconcile and evaluate different opinions.

I agree with the Court, at least as described in this article, on this case.
Melissa Underhill Aug 27, 2009, 6:42pm EDT
I agree, too. To function in the outside of home world, you HAVE to be able to know when and where are the right situations to share your religious views and mention converting. That was not one of the right situations.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:15pm EDT
But you're forgetting one very important factor. This child was NOT being isolated at home. She was ENROLLED in some of the public school classes with the other children. It's not like she was kept isolated only with people who believe the same as her mom. She was introduced to the "outside world." Again, my point is that if she is receiving an acceptable level of education, based on the school board's criteria, then the court should not be able to say she has to go to public school just because her religious beliefs are different or stronger than anyone else's. ALL kids at this age have things they believe strongly in.
DesertDarlene L. Aug 27, 2009, 9:17pm EDT
You've made some excellent points. The only thing I could say that unless I met the little girl, I really can't tell if she's really having a problem functioning with people who don't share the same views or that the adults in her life are just jerks.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:21pm EDT
probably a bit of both, DD. I mean, there are always kids who don't quite "fit" with the other kids. Doesn't mean they don't grow up to be very wonderful adults. Some just take longer finding their place in life.
DesertDarlene L. Aug 27, 2009, 9:22pm EDT
You just described my whole life, Renita, except I'm still trying to find my place.
River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 10:09pm EDT
the article seemed to give the impression she was being isolated.

and the article gave the impression that she was remarkably unable to deal with people disagreeing with her.
Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 10:43pm EDT
RIVER---

"Would they have done the same if her religion of choice was something other than Christianity??
why would you assume otherwise, if it was a problem?
and if you were offered to say where the line is, I bet you'd put it in a far less generous place than the line probably was in this case..." --from you

Here is an example of them not doing anything because the religion in question is muslim...

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20090727/christian-wrestling-coach-sues-school-muslim-principal/index.html

and just in case you don't trust a christian source...

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/07/tmlc_files_suit_against_muslim.php
Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 10:44pm EDT
the last link:

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/07/tmlc_files_suit_against_muslim.php
Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 10:44pm EDT
still didn't work so it will be at the bottom of the page...
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Kelly K ~ ready for the New Year ~ Aug 27, 2009, 6:14pm EDT
that is VERY wrong. there is a case similar to that here in NC.
I suggest all homeschoolers become members of HSLDA
(Home School Legal Defense Assoication)
http://www.hslda.org/Default.asp?bhcp=1
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Marsha S. Aug 27, 2009, 6:18pm EDT
I am deeply disturbed by it
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Jennifer W. Aug 27, 2009, 6:26pm EDT
I can not believe this. You know here where we live we can homeschool until high school and then they have to go to high school or a private school. We do have a lot of christian schools around here but the tuition is very high. I have looked into them. I can say that the school systems where we live are good. I choose for my kids to go to this school district because of the class room size. we have about 15 kids per class room instead of the 30 some class rooms have.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:15pm EDT
You're fortunate to live in an area with good schools.
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Steph-in-NE ..... Aug 27, 2009, 6:40pm EDT
not cool not at all,
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Linda T. Aug 27, 2009, 6:59pm EDT
This is not a case against homeschooling. The divorced parents each have equal equal say in their child's education. When the two parties disagree, as in this case, there is little choice but for the courts to get involved. In this case I feel the correct choice was made. The father has just as much right to decide on how his child is educated as well as what religion she is exposed to as the mother does. The mother does not wish for the child to be exposed to elements that do not belong in her belief system. She will never expose the child to any view point except her own. With homeschooling this child is limited in her exposure to other influences that her father wants her to have. The courts decision is really the only fair way to resolve the situation. Now the mother is free to expose the daughter to whatever religious beliefs she holds and the father can not complain since the daughter will now have amply opportunity to view the beliefs of others in a non intimidating setting. It is a shame that these parents could not put aside their differences to concentrate on what their child truly needs.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:17pm EDT
But, Linda. You must have missed the part of the article where it said the child DID attend some of the classes in the public school, with other children. It sounded like a half & half situation - homeschooled in some areas, public school in others. I know I have that right - for my kids to attend some classes at public school - if I choose to exercise it.
Linda T. Aug 28, 2009, 2:29am EDT
I did not miss the part about the child attending some classes in the public school. The father was not satisfied with that and the mother was. When the courts have to step in to make decisions regarding children they appoint a guardian ad litem. That person must follow criteria set by the courts to investigate what is in the best interest of the child. I can not speak for the state of New Hampshire but in Mass the guardian ad litem is required to meet with the child and the parents separately and together. It is not just the child that is being investigated. After reading the article (which I wanted to read again but link is not working) I surmised that the guardian ad litem believed the child would best be served by attending public school full time. The argument presented was that the mother was too influential over the child's religious beliefs not that the child was not being educated properly.
I wanted to investigate this case a bit further but have not been able to find any sources that were not biased in one direction or the other.
Renita P. Aug 28, 2009, 11:59am EDT
I fully understand the father's rights. But THAT should have been the basis for the decision and not religion. Her religion should have had no part in this decision. That is my main point. Obviously both parents should have some say. If her father has visitation, then he would have opportunity to provide his influence as well.... a child of divorce naturally ends up being influenced by one parent over the other- and not necessarily the custodial parent. I lived with my mom after parents divorced when I was 4, but it was my dad who had the most influence in my life - because of how we were treated and because my mom bad-mouthed him so much that we got mad at her for it (among many other issues). If he's an active part of her life, he should still have plenty of ways to positively influence her if he chooses. I don't think it said what his share of "guardianship" was, but he must still have parental rights or this wouldn't have come about.
Linda T. Aug 28, 2009, 6:36pm EDT
I am assuming that during the interview process the father expressed concerns regarding the mother's religious influence on the child. While his original argument was regarding the homeschooling aspect, the Guardian ad litem, has to consider each concern that is expressed. I will tell you that I have had personal dealings with a Guardian ad litem and my opinion is jaded in a unfavorable light towards them in general. While they start off being impartial they must choose a side since both sides can not win. It is my personal belief that this Guardian ad litem sided with the father and had to manipulate the report in a manner to make the outcome favorable in his direction. Since no evidence supported that the child's education was suffering another element had to be thrown into the mix. When it comes to parental disputes in a court there is no separation of church and state.
Regardless of if the decision was correct or not it is one that is going to have a dramatic effect on this child's life.
There are many sides to this case. Some people will look at it from the Christian aspect, others will see it as an attack on homeschooling but I see it as a clear indicator that there is something very flawed about the way courts make decisions regarding parental rights and concerns.
Renita P. Aug 28, 2009, 8:43pm EDT
excellent points, Linda. I feel bad for children who are the pawn in the middle of parents arguments...
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.* Sandi * Aug 27, 2009, 7:06pm EDT
that is horrible.
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Julie Ann Dawson Aug 27, 2009, 7:07pm EDT
And here is a link to the REAL STORY
http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2009/08/27/nh_mother_wants_to_continue_home_schooling/

This is a parental custody case. The COURTS did not arbitrarily make the decision. The girl's FATHER is the one that brought the case up. As Linda said, this has zero to do with homeschooling and everything to do with the parents themselves. Let's not pretend this is an attack on Christians or homeschooling.
Lori F. Aug 28, 2009, 12:37am EDT
So it was more spin trying to pretend that christianity is under attack?

Wil B. Aug 28, 2009, 1:24am EDT
"So it was more spin trying to pretend that christianity is under attack?"

Yep.
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Risa G. Aug 27, 2009, 7:52pm EDT
I'm not surprised BUT I am not big on home-schooling. I am a child of city schools. My son is going to our local school. I think he would have a worse time with social issues if he didn't go. He is an only child. This is not a home schooling issue though.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:18pm EDT
When you homeschool and have your kids in other activities, the socialization is not an issue. I went to public schools also. But, the school system near me totally sucks and I would never put my kid in it. But, my kids have other activities almost every day of the week with other children. They aren't isolated at home.
Risa G. Aug 27, 2009, 10:26pm EDT
That is good. My next door neighbor in my old neighborhood home schooled her children. They were new to the area. The school near by was an excellent school but she was a Mormon and didn't believe in public schools. Her kids didn't know anyone else in the area except for friends from the church. I felt she was keeping her children from meeting others. Some of the other parents in the area thought that she was separating her children from theirs and they didn't like it. Her children were not in any other activities except for church activities.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 11:33pm EDT
That's certainly not the norm from all the homeschoolers I've met. But, sadly, I know it happens. There is balance.
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Heather E. Aug 27, 2009, 8:19pm EDT
It is disturbing that this springs form a divorce. There is probably wrong on both sides. I would be bothered if it is a ruling that is mostly based on the spiritual aspect of the disagreement.
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timi A. Aug 27, 2009, 8:47pm EDT
It's so sad.
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Rita Ilfeld Aug 27, 2009, 8:54pm EDT
I do not homeschool my kids, however the government needs to stay out of it. I too question if they would become as involved if the family was not Christian.
River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 10:10pm EDT
I too question if they would become as involved if the family was not Christian.

why? why in that hypothetical would you doubt that there would be this situation if they weren't christian?
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DesertDarlene L. Aug 27, 2009, 9:18pm EDT
I think you were right when you said this had to do with a divorce case. I think that's all that this is boiling down to. Too bad that the child has to go through this crap. I'm sure she doesn't understand why people are behaving towards her this way.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:22pm EDT
I doubt, at this point, it would have come up if it hadn't been for the parents opposing views. But, it concerns me as a homeschooler. I know my mom doesn't agree with our choices - what if SHE tried to take me to court over it? Makes me concerned for my rights as a parent..... I don't really think my mom would ever do that, but .....
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Elizabeth S. Aug 27, 2009, 9:39pm EDT
The comments here show a major part of the problem. Many people didn't read the article or didn't remember it when commenting. Some people didn't view the same words in the same way.
While not what I, as an adult, would have done, I disagree that it was wrong to tell the counselor her religious beliefs. If she'd been into soccer or playing the piano, no one would have faulted her for expressing her values and trying to convince the counselor soccer was better than softball or that playing the piano is better than playing the clarinet. I suspect this "too religious" remark has been regretted by the judge and was more an opinion by the court appointed attorney.
I support ACLU's protection of all our civil rights. This sounds like a case for them. Whether someone decides a child is too Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu or atheist sound like a violation of our civil rights and the constitution.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 9:52pm EDT
I agree. But since I'm assuming the "counselor" came in as a result of the parents disagreement on the issue, I can't help but wonder if the conversation was initiated by the counselor in some way. I know I've met many "mediators" and the like who are very good at manipulating the conversation as they want it to go. For all we know, the child may have been asked what she believed and why.... But again, religion had NO place in basing this decision, based on our constitutional rights.
River Walker Aug 27, 2009, 10:14pm EDT
For all we know, the child may have been asked what she believed and why....

when you were 10 you would have been incapable of answering that without trying to convert the person who asked you?

you would not have had a clue that it was possible to answer the question without trying to convert them?

you would not have had any inkling that it was the wrong time and place to try to convince them to change to your way of thinking?

you could not have just answered that question?

at 10 I knew at least the rudiments of what my religious beliefs were, and I could express them without feeling compelled to try to convert anyone, and if I had such a feeling, I'd have known it wasn't the right time or place.

but maybe I was just a genius or something.

Elizabeth S. Aug 29, 2009, 6:15pm EDT
Any adult can manipulate a child, but we don't know if that happened here.

River, I've known many people over the years who are much, much older and more mature than a 10 year old child who are visibly upset when being ignored.

There is nothing wrong with a child being passionate about her religion. Just because you weren't doesn't mean other equally well-adjusted kids aren't.

Freedom of religion is rather empty if strangers can decide that your religious beliefs are too rigid so you need change.

Renita P. Aug 29, 2009, 7:22pm EDT
Well said, Libby!
Sandy (Site Psychic™) Knauer Aug 30, 2009, 1:29am EDT
If she'd been into soccer or playing the piano, no one would have faulted her for expressing her values and trying to convince the counselor soccer was better than softball or that playing the piano is better than playing the clarinet.

I would fault her if she didn't know that it was not the appropriate time to talk about those things. Obviously, she did more than just state her religion.
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Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 10:45pm EDT
Link for River Walker....Muslim case...

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2009/07/tmlc_files_suit_against_muslim.php
Wyoming Catt (The Militant Midget) Aug 27, 2009, 11:34pm EDT
Hancock? What he did was not at all wrong if the kid's parents okay'd it.
Jenysie Jane Aug 27, 2009, 11:57pm EDT
no Hancock didn't do anything wrong...however what the principal did was wrong...he punched a kid in face for becoming saved...for converting from Islam to Christianity...

The principal has yet to be charged....

and also the principal fired Hancock over religious views...
River Walker Aug 28, 2009, 10:17am EDT
you are comparing an assault case motivated by religion, to a case of bad parenting, motivated by religion?

are you nuts? that isn't remotely comparable.

Jenysie Jane Aug 28, 2009, 4:01pm EDT
An assault case...where a muslim hit a student and the courts have done nothing...

hmm...could it be because he's muslim???

I am not comparing...you seem to think that religion played no part in this...and I'm saying it does...and people were asking what if these people weren't Christians....

Christians are being persecuted...that's my opinion...I'm a free thinker...watch out!

I just wish some people would open their eyes to the bigger picture...look around....it's not only Christians, it's also Christian principles...and such things as the Constitution...

Oh wait...I forgot that's not being attacked at all, right??

and we are all entitled to share the wealth of the people that make 250,000+ a year because we deserve it...right??

sorry ranting...but seriously...I can't believe how differently two people can look at black and white...
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S. M. K. Aug 27, 2009, 11:31pm EDT
I'm going to be devil's advocate here...what if the parent was damaging the kid. I would like to think that it had to be proven in court that there was enough wrong with her homeschooling that she should be sent to public school.

And doesn't her father have a right to have a say in his daughter's education? The article you link to also states that she didn't think her father loved her as much as he said he didn't because he didn't adopt her religious beliefs. I'm sorry but how is that not damaging to a child?
Wyoming Catt (The Militant Midget) Aug 27, 2009, 11:38pm EDT
True.. for all we know, the dad could have left because the mother was bordering on a psychosis a'la Margaret White (Carrie). Perhaps.. perhaps not.. its as good as any other speculating that's going on.
Renita P. Aug 27, 2009, 11:42pm EDT
Again, valid comments as far as the fact that I don't know what the mother was telling the child to make her think her father didn't love her enough. Or perhaps it was the way her father treated her. Who knows. But, again my point is that their basis for requiring public school should not have been based on religious reasons, but rather on feeling that her homeschooling education was not sufficient. The article stated that her social and academic skills were fine...
Dexter S. Aug 28, 2009, 11:33pm EDT
There is more to learning than what can be tought from books.. the Unibomber was highly educated and Tim Mcvey was no idiot.. niether was David Koresh
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Ellie !. Aug 27, 2009, 11:44pm EDT
There must be more to this than is reported here. Have the parents done something considered abusive to get her to behave this way? The government is responsible for protecting people. (Remember you and I are the government.) If she were the child of a religious extremist that was...say Muslim...would you feel differently?
This cannot be the entire story of what has been going on.
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EM JAY (Gather Director of Chaos & Uprisings) W. Aug 27, 2009, 11:57pm EDT
I have met some brilliant, well socialized homeschooled kids, and I've met some whose parents were very misguided and religion was always at the root of it.

When I worked in a public library, I met homeschoolers all the time. One day a parent asked me for a video about 20 minutes long on the Civil War. That's how he was teaching his kids, by having them watch videos. He didn't want them in public school because he felt they were an evil influence.

On the other hand, I had friends who homeschooled their son because they felt the schools weren't meeting his needs. Despite having mild learning disabilities, he was able to start community college at the age of 16.

The motive behind the homeschooling makes a lot of difference as to the quality of education a child receives.
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Robert S. Aug 28, 2009, 12:47am EDT
Without knowing more about this it is hard to pass judgement. That is what the court is for. From the article it appeared to me that the father was not happy with the homeschooling situation and/or the mother's teaching methods and he wanted to have his say. That of course is his right and that is why there are courts.

Home schooling is not my cup of tea. I went to public school and loved it. My kids all went to public schools and they loved it. They are doctors and lawyers and have excelled in life. I know some parents do a good job but a lot of them don't. Some are just too lazy to urge their children to stay in school and declare them to be home schooled. They end up getting GED and working at the burger joints. Here in Texas there have been numerous cases of child abuse associated with home schooling and that is not a good thing. The state is obligated to protect the child. that is what the court is for.

I'm sure all of you folks are good homeschoolers but not all homeschoolers are. They do need to be watched.
Renita P. Aug 28, 2009, 12:10pm EDT
Robert,
I agree that certain academic standards need to be met whether a child is homeschooled or not. Absolutely. In my case, my oldest daughter is a good 1.5 years ahead of where she would be in public school AND she is better equipped socially as she is accustomed to being around all ages of children and adults - not just her own class.

Sadly there are those who don't homeschool properly and those are the ones that are always in the news. RARELY will you see a newstory saying "Look how great these homeschool kids are." It's negative sensationalism that gets views.

And, some public schools are far better than others. I happen to live is one of the worst, which was another reason for my decision to homeschool.

I agree that this was more about parental dispute. But I still stand that her RELIGION should not have been used as the basis for the decision. It should have had to do with either her academic ability or her father's parental right to choose what he feels is best. Obviously the mother's rights are there too, but he was the opposing parent in this case.
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Annmarie B. Aug 28, 2009, 2:10am EDT
Hopefully she will be able to be homeschooled. Robert you said homeschoolers have to be watched. Well what about the teachers that treat children unequal because they really do have favorites and show it. maybe let's watch the teachers in our schools while we are at it.
Renita P. Aug 28, 2009, 12:13pm EDT
Yes, teachers need to be watched too. FAR too often we are hearing negative factors about teachers - caught with drugs, kiddie porn, sexual misconduct with students, etc. Obviously that is not the norm, but it happens. And so much more - a few years back a 4th grade girl was sexually molested by 2 4th grade boys who dragged her into a bathroom. A huge part of the problem is that there are not enough teachers per # of kids so there is less supervision. But, no money to pay more teachers and so the problem gets worse & worse in many areas... At least where I live.. 25-30 kids per classroom even in grade school when they need more assistance, etc. Not sure how any teacher could effectively manage in those circumstances...
Robert S. Aug 29, 2009, 9:28am EDT
Annmarie I would doubt that the percentage of teachers who are a negative influence is any higher than home schoolers of the same ilk. In fact I would think the public school teachers would be much lower since they are basically performing in public. The potential for abuse in a home school envoriment would be greater I would think since it by it's nature can be accomplished behind closed doors.

Evil is everywhere and by living you take your chances. If you live in an area where the public schools are substandard and you are truly capable of home schooling good for you, I applaud your tenacity.
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Montanna Cauble Aug 28, 2009, 10:36pm EDT
that is so wrong!
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Dexter S. Aug 28, 2009, 10:45pm EDT
I wonder if was a hoemschooler teaching fundamentalist Islam religion .. or Jewish teaching Christ was only a profit and that Christians have it all wrong.. would you feel the sme way... well at least if they are home schooled they wont have to learn how to deal with athiest and Black people... Someday this country will end up ith groups of unsocial, incompetent , bigots who carry around an amplified version of the parents sins..

This has nothing to do with real Christianity... it has to do with a sick version of it. Iys a good thing Christ wasnt home schooled...then no ones sins would have been forgiven.

Homeschooling is just a way of passing on the evils of prejudice and intolerance, in teh name of Christ... Its been tried through history and never worked for good.


Just my opinion , letting you know that not all who believe in Christ think the same.
Renita P. Aug 28, 2009, 11:02pm EDT
You are so wrong on what homeschooling is about. My children are not being taught any sort of prejudices. We are white. They have black friends, hispanic friends, indian friends. They have Christian friends, agnostic friends, and Jewish friends - I have no prejudices except against ignorance! They understand that not everyone believes in God the same way we do, and that's OK because it's their choice.

I'm not sure how you figure that homeschooling being tried throughout history hasn't worked. Maybe you should check out the statistics on current homeschooled children... You can see the results of the NATIONWIDE STUDY here. You obviously have no real first-hand knowledge of the average homeschooling family.

My entire POINT of this article is that her freedom of religion is not an acceptable reason for courts to force her into a public school. If her academics were lacking or if they did it because her father wanted it, that would be one thing. But to use religion as their reason is unconstitutional - REGARDLESS of which religion it is...
Dexter S. Aug 28, 2009, 11:30pm EDT
Oh I know of about 6 families around here.. (of course this is Texas) and they are all racist to the point they tell you they do it for just the reasons I mentioned...Including my step daughter and her husband... and their kids will turn on them eventually because of it... I can see it starting to happen...
One has to have a strong faith to let their children grow up in the "real" world,, but I do believe it is better and prepares them better to be a good citizen. A Parents job is not to just teach, but prepare their children to face the real world. Adversity builds character and competence
Renita P. Aug 28, 2009, 11:45pm EDT
Just by the diversity of their friends, my kids get exposed to plenty of adversity. And they are involved in other extracurricular activities as well so I have no worries about their character or competence at handling "real life"
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Blind Lady Liberty Aug 29, 2009, 12:57am EDT
Hopefully they will move out of NH. The government is a fraud. The court order is illegal and void and should no be followed but if she ignores it they will take the child. Guardian ad litems are bottom feeders who would have no clients or even a job if they weren't forced upon people. I really get tired of hearing about freedom and the first amendment. Her Christian beliefs are no different than those prophesying world doom by CO2. They don't teach any alternatives to that.

If more children were home schooled the country wouldn't be in the sad shape it is in.
Wyoming Catt (The Militant Midget) Aug 29, 2009, 8:33am EDT
Actually, the level of inbred, closed-off-from-the-rest-of-the-world intolerance would have torn this country apart by now...
Blind Lady Liberty Aug 29, 2009, 9:49am EDT
You argument rings quite hollow. Apparently you have yet to learn self restraint and have no problem displaying your intolerance. Apparently you must have been home schooled.
Renita P. Aug 29, 2009, 5:47pm EDT
Wyoming, your comments just show your complete lack of knowledge on the subject of homeschooling!! It's really laughable that people still think like you. I'm not trying to be offensive, but for crying out loud...you're telling me my kids would be inbred & closed off from the world because I homeschool? That's insanity. They have MORE interaction with other kids because they are not confined to a classroom for 7 hours a day. they have Phys ed, ballet, piano, and various other activities with different sets of kids all the time. Please get some facts before spouting off ignorant comments.
Jenysie Jane Aug 30, 2009, 12:35am EDT
I agree with Renita, and all I have to add is WOW!! Your lack of self-restraint, lack of knowledge, and idiotic response just discredited absolutely everything you have said in this conversation Wyoming Catt...

Oh and just wondering...did you know you spelled Catt wrong? There's only one T....

I'm a homeschooling mother, correcting spelling errors are a part of my job, although my daughter hasn't had any since she was 5!...

Wyoming Catt (The Militant Midget) Aug 30, 2009, 4:26am EDT
"you're telling me my kids would be inbred & closed off from the world because I homeschool? "
Renita: I don't mean to be offensive, but the ignorant ones are you and Jenysie. Instead of a long-winded response, I will point to the sad tale of Jaycee Dugard as my example on what homeschooling could produce. So many children that are being abused would never find help because no teacher outside the family is there to observe. Bias would be a serious problem because you have no idea what other parents are teaching theirs.

Jenysie: Google the name. I am not alone in a little thing called "alternate spelling". As a so-called teacher, you should have been aware of this phenomenon by now. Speaks of your lack of education that you did not. Also, you are a prime example on what I said. If you are the sole arbiter on what your poor children are learning (intolerant, insulting, judgmental, rudeness, condemnation without knowing all the facts), then I pity them and the life you are creating for them by not letting (obviously) more qualified people show your children a better way of interacting with other human beings.
Renita P. Aug 30, 2009, 10:09pm EDT
Wyoming, Jaycee Dugard is certainly not an example of what homeschooling could produce. She was abducted by a psychopath and hidden from everyone. With legal homeschooling, children are not hidden from the state. I have to prove to the school board every year that my children have progressed appropriately. I can do that by providing an evaluation performed by a certified teacher, by a psychiatric evaluation, or by standardized testing. They are not locked away in some hidden camp and never allowed to see the rest of the world.

Go ahead and think what you want. I know who is showing their ignorance. You apparently know nothing about normal homeschoolers and are using every extreme case of abuse by psyhos as your basis for an opinion. Of course you don't hear about the normal homeschooling families - that isn't worthy of sensationalized news. But, gee, considering one of the NATIONAL finalists for spelling bee was a homeschooler doesn't count. The fact that colleges are RECRUITING homeschooled students, realizing they are the leaders of the student governments doesn't count, and surely the national study on homeschoolers has nothing intelligent to say. You can see that report here if you wish to educate yourself just a tad.
Wyoming Catt (The Militant Midget) Aug 31, 2009, 2:22pm EDT
You are so gung-ho to defend the rights of the homeschooling parents, you are deliberately misunderstanding my point.

I maintain that homeschooling can be detrimental to some children, as well as beneficial to others. Andrea Yates. Neil and Christy Edgar. And since you mentioned the NSB and Serena Laine-Lobsinger, please remember Marjorie Lavery, as well.
I could name more but it really isn't necessary. I shudder to think of the children that are supposedly 'homeschooled' when in fact its just a cover to hide years of abuse. Also, are you aware that one of the biggest advocates for homeschooling are the KKK? (Just ask: I'll show you the links)

It's hard to know how widespread the abuse might be because the government doesn't keep track. We don't even know how many children are taught at home in this country.

The major reason most people have for homeschooling is RELIGION. Like Generation Joshua, it is not simply distrust of the public schools, but specifically on the grounds of the curriculum being at odds with parental beliefs. This coincides with a lot of 'racial-purity' beliefs, as well.

I DID my research years before you posted this article. Therefore I do not disagree that great things can come from homeschooling. But we as a people cannot properly monitor the education (or mis-education) of our children should the majority of citizens opt for homeschooling, hence the comments regarding "inbreeding" and "intolerance". I stand by my premise that this country would come to ruin were that to happen.
Renita P. Aug 31, 2009, 5:39pm EDT
Well, your comments of inbreeding and intolerance are offensive. My children, and all the families I interact with who are homeschooled, are perfectly well-adjusted children who certainly are not abused. I'd say that those "cult" groups who are going to abuse their children would continue to do so regardless of the laws regarding homeschooling. Each state has varying laws. Granted, some of them are far too lenient. Others are very strict. But, in many cases, the parent does have to have some sort of interaction either with the school board, or a certified teacher, or an "umbrella" school who oversee the progress, both socially and academically on an annual basis. And yes, I'll say that some of the public school curriculum is against what I believe. I don't believe that a kindergartner should have "sex ed" which is now taught at that age in my schools. I do not believe that evolution should be taught as a FACT when it is a THEORY. I will teach my kids a bit about evolution (have some already even at t