In December 2005, there were few things I had not done, seen, or felt. Journals kept the details of my experiences, and major influences lived in memories and emulations. I used some of them in my novel writing and was ready to explore and reflect others in shorter work. Comfortable with where I was in life and in my writing, I settled into my seat at the Gather table, excited about the opportunity to read, meet, and mix with writers from whom I would learn to hone my skills and pour fifty years of highs and lows, loves and losses, friendships, life lessons, and opinions into fine-tuned essays, short stories, articles, and opinion pieces.
I read everyone on Gather, pleased to discover that my position—midway between beginner and accomplished—presented equal opportunity for give and take. I posted a few pieces and waited. A few people complimented my technique, debated my opinions, and discussed my reflections. It felt great, until I realized something was missing. No one suggested ways in which I might improve my writing. This was fun but I was not honing.
The writers I knew outside Gather appreciated anyone who was willing to comb their work for typos, or errors in spelling, grammar, and punctuation. They treasured those who also looked for inconsistencies in tense, detail, or voice, and who recognized problems with style, awkward wording, character development, or dialogue. Maybe writers in this community expected me to pay my dues before they would invest time in my work? I would give first and see what happened.
I scoured the site and commented on content. I also identified the obvious, simple errors. For the more complicated finds, I explained my critiques and suggestions and linked to educational sites and/or appropriate books. Then, I sat back and waited for the recipients of my time and effort to appreciate my diligence and thank me with genuine critiques of my work instead of the generic nice job comments I was seeing. (It’s okay to laugh and wonder how I could be so naïve after touting all that worldly experience in the first paragraph.)
The writers in this community were different. A few insisted they were professionals and therefore perfect, and that anyone who dared point out an error was jealous and not welcome. And there were others who insisted that only thugs and mean people thought there were rules to writing. They expected praise and high ratings, despite their errors, since they never intended to be real writers. I should be grateful they slopped some words on the page and allowed me to read them.
I adjusted my not-so-comfortable-any-more seat and considered the options: I could quit, or forget standards, or try to affect change, or wait to see if other writers came in. My decision to wait ended up being one of the best I have made. That probably surprises those of you who have suggested (so many times) that I should leave if I am so unhappy. I will explain my Those Were the Days experience and hope you will understand why I stick around longing to find people who will recreate those times.
A few brave souls came forward to admit that they, too, cared about the integrity of writing and hoped that we could stick together and hold one another to high standards and honesty. My Gather mailbox filled with encouragement from people who supported my position, but weren’t brave enough to risk the fallout that found people who openly admitted they cared about standards on this site.
A few more writers showed up, and soon, key elements stewed in an undercurrent of potential: intelligence, skill, discipline, strength, eagerness, vitality, ethics, talent, and wit. One great piece of work inspired another. On one side of Gather, writers linked to other writers and encouraged great work, while the other side screamed about being bumped out of top spots by grammar police and elitists. It was easy to ignore the screaming while I expected the undercurrent to burst into something phenomenal.
A human catalyst--posing as a teen werewolf--entered. Most of us feel something special when we see pictures of babies or puppies even if we have not and will never meet the subject of the picture. We fall in love with words in a song, and emotionally attach ourselves to characters in books and movies. Ideals grab our hearts. Art changes our lives. Once in a great while, for reasons we can’t explain, some identity—real or not—wins a permanent place in our heart. So it was for me, with the talent behind the teen werewolf (sometimes known as the wherewolf after long absences) icon.
Not only was he the catalyst I needed (I think I speak for others as well), he was a talent magnet. He raised the bar and silently issued constant challenges for me to be at the top of my game. He entertained. He demonstrated a perfect mix of perfectionist and humility. Before long, young, passionate, intelligent, witty, altruistic, humble, disciplined, cultured, eager, earnest, generous, and inspirational artists surrounded him. Many in that group were young enough to be my children, yet I felt privileged to be in their presence and to learn from them.
For a while, Gather was filled with creativity and growth (of the personal kind, I don’t know about membership numbers). I credit those passionate young writers, and believe their energy would have pulled in more members like them if Gather had appreciated and protected them and what they (and many of us) believed was the original vision of this site. Unfortunately, instead of protecting them, quality content, or that evasive vision - Gather allowed people who resented grammar police and elitists to harass, flag, misrepresent, and chase them off to share their brilliance where it is appreciated.
Spirits and motivation dropped. Writers stopped writing or left when their readers and inspiration dwindled, and their work was buried so deeply between games, diary entries, and single-line questions that no one could find it.
Recently, I accepted a position as member editor for the Writing Essential group, hoping I might infuse a new wave of inspiration and challenge, collect people who are passionate about the art of writing, or at least promise that on one day of the week, I would sponsor a collection of inspired, creative writing. I thought maybe, if readers and writers knew where they could ‘gather’ to meet other passionate writers with similar interests, the momentum would grow.
After several months and few responses to several appeals to the group for feedback, it is obvious that most members do not share my interests. I’m extremely grateful to those who do share my interests and to those who responded to my questions. I’ve heard from a few others, and have to assume that the majority who did not respond agree, that my focus is too narrow (fiction, prose) and my standards (must care about technique) too strict. Therefore, I plan to take my project out of the group and leave Tuesday open to a theme and moderator/host that will better serve its members.
Last night, I stood before the tavern (listen to the song if this makes no sense) and heard Monica and X Tabber call my name. I’m not completely ready to give up my dream of creating a cozy corner in Gather where we might bring back or recreate a Those Were the Days atmosphere. I want to see if I have different results in a location where I am able to deliver exactly what I promise.
I created three new groups for writers and readers who care about the art of writing:
Character Development Workshop
Creative Non-fiction/Personal Essays
(Groups are not fully developed. I hope to get them cleaned up over the next few days at which time I will formally introduce them with guidelines.)
Each group will have strict posting guidelines and content will be monitored. These groups are for beginning and accomplished members – anyone who promises to think before they write, edit before they post, treasure readers and writers who offer critique, to accept personal responsibility for remembering the group purpose and guidelines. Members must have thick skin, accept critique and praise graciously, and understand that members will read and comment on what interests them which means some members will receive more attention than others.
In other words, if you can’t remember that they sell food in the grocery and flowers at the florist, that you work on Tuesday but not on Saturday and your book club meets on the third Wednesday of each week, you don’t belong in these groups. If you are not capable of separating the writer from the writing, or you suspect these groups are cliques and that posting to them guarantees friendships or exclusion of people you don’t like, you don’t belong. What you post to an anything goes group does not belong in these groups*
Long-term goals:
- To twist a few arms and expand this beyond what I can comfortably handle. I would like to link each of these groups to poetry and other non-fiction groups that commit to the same standards.
- To promote these groups outside Gather and see if they attract new writers and readers.
* That doesn’t mean that you don’t belong, only that your anything goes post doesn’t belong.
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Comments: 118
While in places it sounds a bit defensive (e.g., grammar police), many of us have felt the frustration of reading work that reeks of "I'm a writer" when truly, they are just people who write.
I've just finished Stephen King's excellent "On Writing" for the third time. The part that always resonates with me is the part where he asserts that grammar, structure and other "hard" parts of writing are not done for the critics, but for the readers. Readers shouldn't be distracted by the ill-formed structure of a sentence. They should be enthralled in your story. If they aren't, you are the only one to blame.
Crit serves an important role. Although receiving it often feels like someone is slaughtering your children in cold blood, the editors at most publishing houses are serial killers compared to these friends of the craft.
Thanks for penning this, Sandy. There are a few of us who still care.
Thank you for still caring, and for pointing out how important structure and consideration for the reader are.
The first twelve paragraphs of this piece, and everything that happened between paragraphs twelve and thirteen, would make a great book. And no one could tell it as well as you could, Sandy.
Basketball Jesus, "I WILL DESTROY YOU!", Sandy Is a Jerk, blurry close-ups of body parts, drunken ravings, the CIA (snicker), senators and their little bastards, one monumentally incompetent member services decision after another... I miss that teen wolf.
(How many people will understand that last paragraph?)
I'll work on that book if you'll help me - and create a non-fiction group. a
True story.
I have people?
I doubt if you'll be seeing any character-based fiction from me in the near future, but I joined the first group. I'll read when I can, and offer feedback whenever doing so would make everyone focus on me and be super impressed.
I am incapable of writing general fiction, due to my life long habit of being truthful at all times. I don't even know how to be less than 100% truthful, honest, important and popular. I joined that group just to help the participants maintain some perspective on their pitiful efforts.
Creative non-fiction and personal essays I can do. I joined the group, but I refuse to post anything there unless Janna agrees to be the first to comment on everything I contribute.
You DO have a character for the workshop. He can be honest.
(Here I am, from the Motor City!)
I promise.
writers' critique group (off Gather)
I see no sense in being part of a group dedicated to writing if there are no standards adhered to in that group. The anything goes approach benefits no one.
I am not a professional writer by any means, but I have had a novel pinging my consciousness for a number of years now. I hope that by joining a group such as is being created here I can get that novel out.
I invite criticism to whatever I may submit,and I hope to give valid criticism as well.
soooooo I'll join the groups if you don't expect too much from lil' ole' me! lol
I agree about good healthy debate, especially when it comes to writing technique and style. I've learned more about what readers look for in writing group discussions than I have in workshops, classes, or books.
I'll read and pay attention, but for now, I don't want to get involved in something I might not be able to continue, due to real life matters. If or when I decide I want to be committed, I'll then take up the pen in exchange for the sword.
Anything is possible.
Although I knew it from personal conversations with you, it made me happy that others could see how much you really do care about those who care about learning.
You should have been a teacher. Too bad they're not honored as they should be, and the pay is lousy.
I'm glad you never gave up on Gather, and found a different route to do what you're meant to do, and a means to fulfill your passion. We only tell complainers to leave if they don't like it, especially if they're not willing to find ways to make it better and "gather" others for a positive cause that enables others to participate. You wanted a writer's site. It may not be exclusively a writer's site, but you surely carved a niche, a place to go... a special building within the neighborhood, where people can be uplifted rather than degraded and torn down. It's your own building, where no one can interfere with how you conduct business.
When my personal situation improves and I've the time to devote to some serious participation in something as constructive as your teaching groups, I will put as much heart into it as you have. It's the best I can give back for what you have given.
If we live in the past, we can't move forward. I have read and heard your side of the "good old days". I wasn't here, so I have no opinion. I'm sorry you still mourn for those days, whether real or perceived, but I'm glad you're moving forward in an attempt to bring a semblance of the creativity you miss back into focus. Maybe the established talents left for greener pastures, but what you're doing may find new talent that needs polished and if others put their bias aside, they may end up feeling proud that they played a major role in someone's development.
I used the word 'exercise' instead of 'prompt' for my project because each had a specific, useful purpose. Most prompts I see ask the writer to narrow the focus to what the prompt issuer wants to see. I wanted the writer to do the opposite - go deep to explore something s/he didn't already know about the character and wow the reader with something unexpected.
My thoughts and best wishes are with you regarding the personal situation. It's time for good news! As far as participation, I don't want anyone to shy away due to fear of commitment or inability to keep up. My dream for the fiction and essay groups is that they will be where people want to post work that takes time so there should be no sense of keeping up. I want the workshop to be 'at your own pace' and try harder this time to stress that point.
I'm glad you are trying something different. Your Tuesday group truly challenged me until life got in the way, and it became impossible to keep up. It also became more about the writer in some instances than the writing, and there was nothing you could have done to keep it on track.
I'm having a Gather dry spell. I am not inspired to write, barely reading and yet not willing to leave yet. So, it will be interesting to see what comes from your new groups.
So true, Sue. I see many comments (not to mention Joy's name) where it is obvious the person leaving the comment has not read the post. If someone reads enough to pick every nit, I appreciate their time.
I hope you will join again and find inspiration. Summer pulled many of us away from our computers so I'm going to hold off a couple more weeks and see if we can't all jump back in together. For the workshop group, there won't be deadlines and I am going to try to post two sets of exercises - one for ongoing projects and another for drop-ins.
I would love to see you continue with Liz's story.
Allow me to announce publicly, here on Gather -- for the first time; it's been on Facebook all day, as well as my blog -- this former Gather Writing Essentials Editor applauds your chutzpah.
And I shall follow your lead, Madame.
Or are you dead, Dead, DEAD?
We know rotting has already been involved. (Pre-Mortum)
I have appreciated when typos and such are pointed out because it gives me the chance to correct myself. Have never had anyone do it in a nasty way, and that does help. If anyone pointed out a technical flaw, I'd most likely respond with, "Huh?" because I've never really learned the mechanics.
I don't tend to look for mistakes or misspellings. I have to proof documents at work and I shut down "proof mode" when not getting the dollars for it.
Not sure if I fit into any groups. I don't feel that I'm one to critique because people asking for such already know more about writing than I do. Only really interested in knowing if I slip quality-wise if it looks like I'm headed into Dementialand and people start thinking I'm off my meds when I don't even take meds. Then I would appreciate it if some one would take the time to say, "You've posted 4 stories about a red toaster in 7 minutes. Are you in need of a psyche eval?"
It is time for Being Human, which oddly enough is a series in which the story is about a werewolf and his roommates, the vampire and the ghost.
Good thing I joined, then, because it's time for a long overdue beatdown.
I'm not looking for everyone to critique every piece - just asking that people feel free to do so if they see something, and for others to accept it when it happens.
Time Heals - are you trash talkin' me? Because I've watched enough WWF/E to know trash talkin' had best be backed up or you don't get no respect in this ring. I've got a folding chair.
"Recently, I accepted a position as member editor for the Writing Essential group, hoping I might infuse a new wave of inspiration and challenge, collect people who are passionate about the art of writing, or at least promise that on one day of the week, I would sponsor a collection of inspired, creative writing."
Should read:
"Recently, I joined in the bonds of holy matrimony with my long-time lover, the comma."
Did you pause with each one? Was it uncomfortable?
It goes like this, Sandy- Hello, my name is Sandy and I'm a commaholic. It has been 6 words since my last comma.
Honestly, I don't care home many commas a person uses in her own home, but when it becomes a public embarrassment, then an intervention has to go down.
Even more honestly, I have much confusion over comma rules, as they seem to change every 15 years.
There's the problem. I didn't want you to eat them. I'll ping you some treats so you can leave my sentences alone.
No, really, I appreciate (dang, I'm paranoid about those two so close together now) that you let me know. I'll try to be more aware. It's a terrible habit that I hope everyone will stay on me about if I don't break it.
The rules do change often Em Jay (ouch that hurt) and last I heard there was one set of rules for diction and another for other writing. I think I'm getting ready to fall of the wagon so I have to leave now.
I wouldn't blame them if they resented me.
I'm not anti-comma. I like them very much. One of these days, I might even create a Gather Group™ exclusively for comma porn. They're pretty generic, though. Like the period and the paragraph break, they (mostly) do one thing and do it extremely well.
Other punctuation marks can create pauses, but they're more complex and subtle. I like subtle complexities. As much as I love reading, I actually prefer to hear a really skilled speaker read to me. The human voice has so much complexity and subtlety, it adds a whole additional dimension to a story which the printed word can only attempt to emulate.
If anyone else on this thread loves hearing people tell their stories in sound as much as I do, there is no better place to go than The Moth. Public Radio is currently featuring a summer series called The Moth Radio Hour, recorded there. These are amazing stories, told before live audiences, without scripts and in one 'take'. The story tellers are the best. I highly recommend Alan Rabinowitz' "Man and Beast", currently the fifth from the top on the Listen to Stories page.
Be back soon.
(Glad my commas - or better yet, my run-on sentences - didn't distract you.)
When I started reading this post, my first reaction was fear that it was your farewell to Gather. Then I started to look for where you were going to (because I know you wouldn't just give up writing).
So count me in, even though I've only been writing political stuff (OK, maybe some technical/engineering stuff too) recently. I like writing fiction, but just haven't been inspired. You inspire me.
I inspired you to write fiction?! YES! I can't wait.
If your teacher took the time to help you with all of that, I'm happy that you found someone that willing to help. I'm interested to know how you found Gather through your teacher. Is the teacher a member who recommended this site, or is your participation here a class assignment? I would be thrilled to discover that teachers are recommending my workshop but curious to know how the teacher discovered it.
And if you're going to school, you're either getting GED or you've gotten one and gotten into a community college. You have to have some writing skills to accomplish that.
Abigal, I asked if this is a class assignment so I could determine how to proceed. On second thought, that shouldn't matter. Since I've offered to assist with character development, I should not defer to your teacher if you come to me. If you work on spelling and punctuation with your teacher, I will gladly help you with your character.
Knowing the English language is not "elitism" or "grammar policing". I took a big chance once when I critiqued Spencer T.'s poem once; turned out he appreciated it to at least some degree.
I know not everyone can remember all the rules to English, but that's what is great about this site. You can change anything you've written after-the-fact, which means that when you misspell "their" as one of its homonyms - you can go change it!!!
It amazes me that people don't see this as an opportunity to expand their horizons. Learning happens every day, this is just part of it.
I enjoy writing on occasion, but I have not really had inspiration as I've known it before. Perhaps that will change.
Sandy, I've been mulling for a while how to state this. You nailed it.
I was here during the time we were happily pointing out each other’s boo boos, I liked it.
I am going to click on all three of these groups. Because I have a poor internet connection, I probably won't post or write until it is possible to change to a faster connection. But I will go delete that other writing group and add these for "just in case" I try writing something. I love gather grammar police and spell checkers and I am severely dyslexic and proof reading is as much as a pit as writing. I mean if you don't see the problems how can they be fixed. Sometimes it takes a few days, to "check" really the best checking is another pair of eyes.
Can someone set me straight.
Thank you.
Alas my friend you're older but no wiser...
You still think gather can be made something worthwhile. It has simply gone the way of most other free posting sites on the web and been taken over by cliques. Authorsden have it right. They don't allow multiple comments or replies. Giving people an unlimited platform is the problem.
We're writers, we are supposed to be loners scribbling away in a garret, creating fantastical world for others but having for ourselves small, grey, solitary existences.
Gerry in the comment above has it right. Gather was always doomed to become a social networking site. But just the other day I gave someone a link to something here. They followed that but instead of seeing the article a "become a member" wall met them.
As most of us have more signups than we can manage this just drives people away.
Having said that, however, let me add that it seems only fair that if a character development workshop is in the title of the group than some character development activities should take place within the group. Otherwise change the name of the group to something else, like "What Gather Isn't" or "How Gather has Changed" since those seem to be the main topics of conversation here.
Just a suggestion.