American Seniors Supported by Socialist Security! Run for the Hills!

oh well said.... very well said.

The arthritis fairy? Where do I get mine?

Nicely said Dame Ruth (as always). Sadly those who really need to understand this never will. Their fires of ignorance fuel their little steam engines of vitriol.

I plan on linking this article to every asshole who sends me the Run For Your Life! Socialism Is At Our Door! bullshit in my email.

I doubt they'll understand it, though.

Nicely said. I get frustrated every time I watch the news with those hysterical voices.

There's an old vaudeville song that has a refrain that begins with "I got mine, I got mine..."

I've been singing it to myself a lot lately. :)

Remember, there are no deserving poor. They got where they are through moral degeneracy.

If I got here by moral degeneracy, why didn't I have a bit more fun?

Forget that! I'm singing, "I got rhythm, I got music, I got my medicare, who could ask for anything more."

I've worried about the moral degeneracy question a lot too. There's something wrong here.

Eggsacktly. That's what I always tell them and they talk right around it, sigh.

Ever since I first saw the insurance company/bookie comparison I've been amazed by the number of people who don't get it. They're both in the business of managing risk. Both make money by figuring out how to pay out as little as possible. I don't see how it could be any simpler.

In Robert Heinlein's "The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress" one of the features of Lunar society was legalized gambling. Bookies handled insurance along with sports bets and darned near anything else people wanted to bet on.

Which is why actuaries are the highest paid people in the insurance industry.

They set the odds.

Don't the CEOs do better than the actuaries? I used to know a guy who worked in risk management for a major bank. He moved to N. Carolina after a merger.

I'll bet the people who set the odds in the Vegas sports books do pretty well too. If nothing else the casinos have to pay them well enough so that they're not tempted to do anything foolish. :)

I suppose you're right. I meant from the actually working for a living part of things as opposed to the fat, worm like bastards who suckle at the teat of the Great Beast. You know, upper management. But actuaries do quite well, believe me. I know a few of them and they are wealthy by my standards.

The risk management guy I knew was pretty well off too. It's nice to see people rewarded because they actually know something. I know it seems wrong.

Precisely, Kappy. I still don't understand how we allowed ourselves to be conned by the touts to believe we need insurance. We were all doing fine when our health care was handled by ourselves and our doctors...when and why was it decided that we needed a third party to intercede for us? How did we get roped into paying gamblers to make life and death decisions for us? When did our health become a crooked game in a billion-dollar casino? And why do American idiots insist that we continue to stuff our money into their jackpot slot machines?

Because medical care is expensive and it's easier to pay on time. :) It doesn't have to be insurance companies.

For years I've been a Kaiser member. It's more like a membership deal. They used to call the premiums "dues." It's a clinic setting but you get to pick your doctor. You have to shop around and be assertive from time to time but there's no nonsense about whether or not they're going to pay for something or whether or not you're going to be dropped all of a sudden. It's not health care utopia by any means. Our prescription co-pay just tripled.

First, medical care wouldn't be as expensive as it is if doctors didn't have to pay an enormous staff of accountants and billing experts to collect their fees. Secondly, when I was growing up, doctor bills came regularly, just like the electric bill and the rent. Money was budgeted for medical services the same as it was for food and other necessities. If the money people hand insurance companies every month were put aside to pay physicians and hospitals directly, we wouldn't be beholden to millionaire bookmakers to decide what level of care we could have.

You're talking the creation of a health care plan, Dame. Who could make a profit off the suffering of that?

I also remember when the doctor, as well as the doctor bill, came to the house.

Me too, EM. In fact, I found out I was pregnant with my son when I was visiting my parents and the doctor had been called to see my sister. It was an offhand, "by the way, doc..as long as you're here" examination. No charge, and he predicted my due date on the nose. These days, it would cost a couple hundred bucks at an ob-gyn's office, plus a half-dozen unnecessary tests for another few hundred to get the same information.

This is exactly what I want...a relationship between me and my doctor with no insurance company or government bureaucrat in between. There are so many people in rapture about the fraudulent idea of free health care...they don't see the inevitable hazard of letting the government control more of the healthcare system. The bureaucrats can't compete, so they create a monopoly and we lose the markets ability to offer cost-effective efficiencies and upgraded technology--driven by consumer choice! I'm not trying to tell you how to vote, do what you want and enjoy the consequences. I'm telling you why I oppose this and why I will fight every step of the way. As is my right, eh?

Dame Ruth, you have done it again! This is what all of us "experienced" folks need to hear. Those of us on SS and Medicare who are sitting fat and happy.
Those of us who are outraged that the government would like to see our cushy setup shared by a lot of others who don't have it.
As Nippy says, "I got mine, I got mine..." But what should follow that is..."and to Hell with the rest of you."

Looking good there, Socialist Snob!

I hope to live long enough to collect Social Security, my pension from my current job, and my pension from my previous job. I want to live high on entitlements so those legislators better get marijuana legalized. (Shit, who am I kidding? Legalization never got in the way before.)

And another thing, I don't even drive on the damn highway and I still pay for them! Makes it easier for the USPO to get me my snail mail.

hear hear!!

Not only am I linking this to assholes who send me the Scared of Socialism bullshit, I'm printing this to have on hand when someone at work, my parents or elsewhere decide to "educate me in the proper way" of things.

No grandmas on ice floes
Awww...come on please, I thought we were pushing you off into the canal back at redneck lane!

Seriously, you know I know...I love that I have insurance so I don't have to roll the dice on my health anymore...and wait till I get pneumonia. BUT, I am terrified that despite them saying after a year your preexisting will be covered, they will find away to make me uninsurable (is that a word? firefox says no), a liar (well you didn't say you had HERNIATED discs, that's a different story), or just plain drop me from B's insurance all together. If that happens I'll have no insurance (we already know how the medicaid thing is going) then no Drs. would take me....well, Dr. Monkey would but, we know what kind of Dr. he is.

On a similar note, how funny is it that Dad despises socialism and the government in his business, but that he goes to the VA for all his medical needs? Who's paying for that again?

There are very difficult decisions based on end-of-life issues and cost/benefit ratios. Some people are unhealthy because of their lifestyle decisions and some people are lonely and love the attention of the doctor and staff. Why should the general public pay for this? Do you really want the government managing rationing and prioritizing? Sure, everyone wants free (or subsidized) healthcare, but there are real costs and unintended consequences. They are going to pay for expanded healthcare by forcing young, healthy people into mandatory insurance whether they want it or not. Is that fair? Is that what you want? Like it's said in The Way of the Gun, every mousetrap has free cheese.

Some people are unhealthy because they can't afford to go to the doctor when they feel unwell. When they finally go because it's really bad, they have a serious illness that they really can't afford, and can't get insurance because they've been diagnosed with something serious.

There are 29 cities with better quality off life then any in the US and they are ALL in socialist countries, with health care for it's people, do you think this is a coincidence?

No, I think lefties can not be trusted with numbers and statistics.
Let's make a deal shall we? I'll support single payer or univeral insurance if you'll set a cap on the tax burden. You pick the number. If I can prove I've spent 50%, 60%, 70% of my income on taxes, then I'm done for the rest of the year. Okay? What's the number? At what point have I paid off my obligation to the public welfare?

And you're not part of "the public"? Are you under the impression that you're the only person in the country who will be pitching in to help his fellow citizens? How much do you need to keep for yourself? The percentage of your income that will be shared with others is not going to deprive you of anything. The fact is, you're probably giving the insurance bookies more to pay your medical bills for you now than the tax burden for universal health care would ever be. As far as "lefties" and statistics are concerned, check the numbers yourself and stop letting Fux News skew them for you.

My question is with taxes, premiums, deductibles and co-pays what percentage do you have left?

How can you argue with the FACT that those socialist countries have happier, healthier and better educated people? I've been to those countries, they are cleaner, have lower illiteracy rates, lower teen pregnancy, less crime, the people have more money despite they money they pay out...how is any of this a bad thing? But then again I'm just a "lefty" that can't be trusted with numbers and statistics.

Exactly. You got it. Very good.

So Ken, boy. Show her how her numbers are wrong instead of just namecalling. But then, when you supply YOUR numbers, WE will decide if we can trust YOU.

Hello Bert. I've been trying to figure out where I've been calling people rude names. Is it "Lefty" you object to? I'll apologize and use a different word, whichever name you prefer. Let me know.

This is something that never stopped making me scratch my head. For a self proclaimed super power and world moral leader to have pockets of population without health care or inadequate health care is preposterous ! I understand the need to hang on to capitalism since most people go beyond fear of change and are grossly misinformed about many other forms of governing , but any civilized entity should offer a system favorable to all echelons in the society and over pass any issue like money or politics…But that’s just me, up on a soap box …

With all due respect, my friend, there are several problems with universal healthcare. One problem is, if the government is paying for your healthcare with tax dollars, then that gives them the right to demand you live what they think is a healthier lifestyle. If I'm paying for your healthcare, then I want you to stop smoking, drink one (and only one) glass of wine a day, lose 15 pounds, sell the motorcycle, stay off the skateboard, walk three miles a day, and let's close the ski resorts while we're at it. Bicycles? They're a public health hazard...outlaw them. The absurdity of it all gets obvious very quickly. It's better for the government to stop pretending they can be God and stay out.

oh, I don't know Ken, that’s a fear over passed by other governing systems in which things work pretty smooth now and nobody had to change lifestyles, on the contrary, the peace and relieve coming out of the fact that you don’t have to worry about money or coverage when sick is seen everywhere…People are more relaxed , go out more , live life with more gusto. I love going back to France or Belgium and see all my friends and family relaxed, taking vacations and growing old with dignity …I lived for the first 26 years of my life in systems offering free health care and other than not worrying about ridiculous medical bills (like I have now unfortunately) the care was outstanding....But again, I understand where the apprehension is coming from and without being facetious I think it’s a legit concern , nobody would want the government telling anybody what to do…
(Although, the insurance company feels it is mandatory for me to wear a seat belt, wear a helmet when biking and immunize against certain forms of cancer…All good stuff, but see where I am coming from ?)

The absurdity of what you're trying to sell is even more obvious. That "slippery slope" argument is not only untrue, it's totally ludicrous. I bet you're one of the same bunch who are against gay marriage because it will lead to men marrying their pet snakes. Nobody claims the government is going to "demand" anything concerning your lifestyle, although in some cases, it's clearly necessary to legislate safety measures for people who are too stupid to take care of themselves voluntarily (seat belts, helmets, etc.).

All of which, however, avoids the point here. You seem willing to let gamblers and profiteers "play God", but you balk at allowing your fellow citizens to lend a hand with your health care. You'd rather trust your life to bookies who are betting against you than to lawmakers who represent you? Go for it! The legislation as it stands today gives you that option. Keep the insurance casinos in business if that's your preference. It just doesn't happen to be mine, or others who'd rather not throw loaded dice when our lives are on the line.

Don't misunderstand me, I hate insurance companies too. Just look at their business...they collect money, then pay back for hazards with money left over to pay for fancy buildings, nice suits and lawyers. I don't want it. I don't like the reward (the only way you win is when you lose or cheat). I don't like the false sense of security you think you're buying.
Everyone wants free stuff. It's a fundamental human trait. Gimme-gimme. Use the power of government to make someone else pay for my free (or subsidized) stuff. Anytime you take from someone you make them a slave. I'm against slavery in all forms.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying, Ken...I really am. But all I get is a lot of vitriol about "lefties" and "government" and human beings in general. What do you WANT? You're against universal health care, you're against insurance companies, you're against slavery (now, that's an original twist on the facts at hand!) you're against the status quo, and you're against any attempt to change it. So what the hell are you FOR?! As misanthropic as you are, I'd advise you to find a cave in the hills somewhere and just stay there counting the money the government wants to steal from you. Vaya con dios, buddy...I wish you the best.

That's easy enough. I'm for liberty and freedom. Generally, I just want to be left alone.
You started this thread with talking about social security. I have no doubt that government involvment with medical care will have the same result. Social Security is a pay-as-you-go system with a huge unfunded liability. Politicians of both parties have been raiding the "lockbox" to pay for social programs and other goodies they cynically use to buy your vote.
Everything you want must be paid for, it can't be conjured out of thin air by smooth-talking politicians. Who do you expect to pay for free and subsidized healthcare for everyone? You don't care. Soak the rich, that's the ticket.

Didn't politicians (Al Gore) on one side want to place social security in an untouchable lock box, the other side made fun of him, and then promptly raped social security again? Did I really dream that?

Which rich? The ones who got that way by stealing from the rest of us through unendurable insurance premiums and $100/pill pharmaceuticals? Or do you mean the rich that got that way by raping the planet of timber and fossil fuels? Or perhaps you refer to the arms dealers who fill their offshore bank accounts with the blood of our young people. I have no problem expecting them to return a portion of what they've taken, to share what their greedy hands have stolen, to act like human beings and show some compassion for their victims. Damn straight they should be soaked.
And if you're so incensed about the social security system, do you plan to refuse your checks when the evil government ruthlessly thrusts them at you? Will you say 'no thank you' to Medicare when you're faced with a life-threatening illness you can't afford? Suuure you will.
You want liberty and freedom? I repeat my suggestion of cave-dwelling. Believe me, you won't be missed. Just watch out for bears.

You're the one talking about punishing drug and fuel companies...you live in a cave. I like energy and technology.

I'm sure you do. You just aren't willing to share with those who can't afford astronomically priced meds and $500 telephones.

With all due respect, Ken, this statement: "Everyone wants free stuff. It's a fundamental human trait. Gimme-gimme," tells me I owe you very little. Respect is one of those things you aren't "due" just for the gimme of it, you must earn it. I start out respecting and caring about people until they earn the opposite. Your admission that you want free stuff and are trying to project your greed and selfishness onto every other human cost you my respect.

That's an interesting turn-about. I work hard and make a great living. It's people like me who support the system...I put a lot more into it than I'll ever get out. I'm talking about generic human nature...the inherent tendancy toward laziness and sloth. It's in me and it's a battle I fight every day. Are you saying you give more than you take, Sandy? And, that most people are like you: they also give more than they take? And, when the government offers a shiny bauble on a silver platter, you are not reaching out with greedy hands?
You see the bauble but not the handcuffs?

I live in the UK, (as Ruth knows, but other readers will not necessarily be aware of this). I am grateful for our health service and though we have had changes in its management in the last 20 years or so, we do have a health service which provides essential and needed care.

I am not sure what the American dream is here. I shan't comment on how it comes across to an outsider like me. However, I am sick of hearing about the scaremongering that is going on over the Pond.

To say that Prof Steven Hawkins would not be alive if he was not in America is a breathtaking lie! That is what is being hawked by your liars. What the hell are they afraid of? Wherefore Christian principles now!!

Professor Hawkin is so horrified by this, he, himself has issued a statement denying the American slur on the UK health Service. First, he does live in the UK; second; he is alive today, and he say this, BECAUSE OF THE BRITISH HEALTH SERVICE.............and this is totally true. I am happy to contribute to this system, not just for me, for others who have medical needs too.

Americans that have experienced the care of our health service have also complimented it and been grateful for its existence. It may not be the best thing since sliced bread, but I for one am glad it does exist and for what it offers. I know that if I have a specialist need, an accident, or if life becomes particularly physically or mentally unkind to me, there will be medical support which will not turn me away because I don't have a paid up health insurance document. If all my teeth fall out, which, with the dental care I am able to access, (I do contribute to it on a pay-as-you go basis, at a discounted cost) I would get a set of teeth. As it is, my teeth are unlikely to fall out of my head, because my teeth are being checked over regularly. Those who have limited incomes or disabilities, do not usually pay-as-you go, people like me, subsidise them. I have no compunction whatsoever about this.

I much prefer to live in a society that does have a public health care system, it speaks volumes about decent social morals and a sense caring for ones fellow man. It is humanitarian.

Z A C in the U.K, thanks for your point of view.

I hope it injects something positive and truthful into the debate. Thank you for your reply.

Amen, Zelda. What the Kens of this country fail to understand is that 'socialism' is a civilized, humanitarian concept which protects society as a whole. It does NOT give preference to big money or allow itself to be influenced by the few to the detriment of the many. It is a system of sharing, of helping each other, of giving aid and sustenance to those who are in need. It's a system of socializing humans and making them part of our mutual family, rather than forcing them into an "us against them" mindset.

You can blame the cold-war on taking the term "socialism" and villifying it by tying it to Communism and THE RED SCARE. It didn't help that the word is actually a part of the USSR. So now people cannot separate 'socialistic program' from 'SOCIALISM' as in the scary Russians from the 40's on until the entire experiement failed.

So now it's a rally cry. "Oh my God, these heathens want to enact a socialist form of healthcare (socialism being the code word for Communist)" and so many conservatives lock into their deeply patriotic, "I bleed red, white and blue" fervor, grab your gun and head for the hills mind set.

It's a shame but I can't see this argument every being resolved.

You're right, Nick. If only ventriloquist dummies like micky and the other willfully ignorant puppets would learn how to read and actually understand the words they see, we might get some coherence from them. A quick course in the difference between "socialism" and "communism" would go a long way, but it's unlikely that these morons would be able to absorb any facts beyond the contents of their own colons. They latch on to simpleton catch phrases like "Obamacare" and "death panels" without the slightest clue about what they're saying or what they think they mean but when we question them, we're called un-American Communist subversives. Fucking idiots.

Ruth, I think they do understand this: 'socialism' is a civilized, humanitarian concept which protects society as a whole. Their argument is that they don't want to be civilized or humane, or to protect society as a whole.

I think Sandy Knauer has probably hit the nail on the head! The rest is smokescreen stuff. I cannot believe that American people are so ignorant about life, but, it appears this is what the arguments are stating. I have the pleasure of having contact with, and knowing Americans who have knowledge, not always gained just from school systems, many have learned their knowledge from both school and life. They are great thinkers and can communicate, they also care about their fellow human beings. The problem is the other noisy elements who appear not be able to use their senses, or are too selfish to want to.

What kind of society is this?

I'm a UK resident.
I have been incensed by the lies told about people like Stephen Hawking. How DARE some American news outlet use him as an example of how the NHS wouldn't help someone like him?
Thank goodness he refuted those comments by saying he had been treated under the NHS and was grateful for all the care he has been given.
The media outlet has apologised - but how many of the people who read and believed that shite will read the apology? I suspect that in years to come that same old article (which has been proved to be lies) will STILL be trotted out in defence of why your country does not believe in giving a fair and equitable health service to all.

Your point is important Ishbel - the damage is done, the lies got there first, a retraction won't even be noticed. I would imagine it would be something like the retractions we get here, short and sweet, hardly noticeable and not linked up to what caused offence in the first place. It is all part and parcel of the dirty tricks campaign strategies. Horrible!

In the last three years I know of two American citizens working here on contracts, who were diagnosed with cancers, breast and cervical. They were seen quickly, treated efficiently, now both have great prognoses . These ladies chose not to buy foreign health insurance, as; a) they did not imagine they would be afflicted with such awful diseases and b) they had the back-up of our humane care system to help them.

You go Ishbel. What a bunch of despicable liars they are.

BLUSH!

Of course you ladies know our rough, tough 'Murrican men look down their broken noses at you "pansy furriners and your commie socialist gummints", so they don't think you have anything to tell them that's worth listening to. The Kens don't want to hear it and the micky d.s are incapable of understanding clearly spoken English. But I appreciate your input and can only hope your message gets through to some of these empty-headed obstructionists before they do irreparable harm.

I always want to find and drag Ishbel and Kat L. to every thread where some undereducated right-wing mouthpiece starts criticizing care in the U.K. or Canada, respectively. I've never met a soul from either nation who was dissatisfied with their health care, or wasn't horrified by ours.

Those tough "murrican men who look down their noses are not the average American men - at least not in my life. They hate socialism because they aren't accepted in society. It's easier to blame and demonize everyone else than it is to clean up their acts.

From what I now hear, there is a backlash against the extreme right wing and their comments. I sincerely hope so. I have heard that there are Twitter threads on this; if it is as effective as it was with other recent issues, more power to your elbow Twitter!

I would hate to live in a country with millions of under-educated people, with people, some of whom are educated and abuse the benefits of what education they've been privileged to have......but of course, they enjoy the drug of power over people who don't have the means to rebut them.

I would shrink from having to live in a country that can openly deny at least 50 millions of people sufficient basic health care support. You insurance companies for those that can afford to pay their premiums, have HMO's which decide upon the levels of treatment they will pay for and would continue to support under their insurances. The drugs companies are having a free ride and charge hellish high prices for their products, many of which are available elsewhere, a lot cheaper. The drugs corps will trot out the old 'how expensive it is to develop our products' arguments; yes, drugs are not cheap to produce for medical requirements, but neither are they as pricey as the gravy train charges levied. These things alone create selfish interest. It would be great to know what connections some of these right wingers have with the corporations and insurance companies. You would get the measure of what you are dealing with.

As for insulting other health systems; your people, (those that do) have absolutely no moral right to do so. You don't even have basic humanitarian care; a large caucus of Americans don't want it. Until you do have some overt and public moral authority in caring for your fellow human beings, shut-up!

This is a very simple question: are you in favor of doing the right thing or not? As much as I loathe and despise my fellow man, particularly some of the ones I see on this site, I would not try to deny them health care. (OK, maybe one or two, but that's more in the category of I-wouldn't-spit-on-them-if-they-were-on-fire than actually trying to keep them from being taken to a hospital.) Yet they're lining up by the misinformed or stupid or bigoted or paranoid thousands to deny me, and the other 46,999,999 uninsured that same right.

I can't recall who mentioned earlier that other nations, most of whom have single-payer health care, have healthier and better educated citizens, but the very fact that there's a debate on the issue of universal health care proves we should be even farther down the list among nations chock-full-o'-nuts than we already are.

The commenter who mentioned the well-educated socialist democracies was my brilliant granddaughter who has seen them firsthand, as have I. We have lived among those people and enjoyed their freedom from financial stress, their smarts and their open hearts. They have also made us feel distinctly ashamed of the United States and the abysmal ignorance of our citizens. It's no accident that so many Americans put Canadian maple leaves on their luggage...once you see this country from a distance, you realize what a pit of stupid it is, and you're embarrassed to admit being part of it.

It's true, all of it, even the brilliant granddaughter part. During our 6 week trip to Europe, we were unsure if we should be honest about being Americans, in general we didn't mention it. Once and awhile we did cop to being evil Americans and were given the third degree on how we could let our leaders (W and I'll shoot you in the face Cheney) do such a poor job and not at least revolt. They figured it was because our country is so under educated that it wouldn't even know when it's leaders were shitting on the rights of it's people. Also, Jen got very sick while we were in Belgium, she was taken to the Doctor treated, and given medicine...it was taken care of because we were staying with residents. If it had happened at home she would of had a bill of $200 just for the visit not to mention the medication.
Micky says just below that he would like the government to send us a round trip ticket to a socialist country...I'll take Switzerland and can you make it one way? I would much rather live in a country the cares for not only it's people but it's country, not raping it of resources and educates it's people...but then again I was born to be an ex-pat.

Sometimes I think I was too, Jessie. Switzerland also has some of the happiest citizens. (I'd be happy too if there was often a chance I'd bump into Roger Federer on the street...)

It's in my blood Kris, at least on the side of Dame Ruth. I was stunned by how intelligent, well educated and happy the people were. Blown away by how clean, and well run the public transit was (notifications if the train/bus/trolley would be more then 1 minute late), the public toilets put some four star restaurants to shame and we saw not one homeless person...when we asked about it they simply said "we care for our people...don't you? Yes, we have to pay for them to be well but, wouldn't you want the same for you?".

It doesn't take a lefty or a genius to figure out why the cities of Switzerland take three spots in the top ten (second, third and ninth) for quality of life. They are also a very wealthy nation, with an incredibly strong army which they use only for defense. Can you imagine it, those socialists spending all that money in taxes and yet...they are still wealthy, healthy and happy...but who would want that?

Oh, and Federer....YUM, those Swiss boys are yummy...and all have uniforms.

Of course, when your rubber frog starts reminding you of five day old fish sitting out on the kitchen counter it is time to convene the death panel. :)

UMM, so lets put senors on a slippery slope that will diminish respect for their "inherent" dignity of each of their lives. It is egregious to consider that any senior citizen- should be placed in a situation where he or she{grand-ma or grand-pa} should be placed in a situation where they would feel pressure to save the government money by "dying" a "Little-Sooner", for the good of others.
Read section 1233 of the health-plan folks- seniors are to be visited by a doctor paid for by the government plan to coach seniors on ending their life. sec. 1233.
I have a very simple solution to the health-care problem. To all you people who can't wait for socialized government Free- Health-care I say fine, let the government provide all of you with round-trip airfare and hotel cost for you to go to Canada-Britain- Cuba and get free health care, it would be allot cheaper to just provide your transportation cost to get your free care than to enroll all Americans in Obama-care.
Or, how about all you pro- government public option care fans to volunteer to go on Obama-care for awhile and see how it works for you if it is just peachy keen great-Bingo- its a go for everybody- also Michelle- Barry and the girls must also join the public option.
Let you people and Obama be the Obama health-care Guinea-Pigs.
Not the Senior Citizens!

Ill informed--hogwash!

You need to re-read what you tell us to read. No doctor will "coach" anyone to die sooner. If a person chooses, a doctor will explain the living will. (Everyone should have one.) No one will be forced to do anything.

U iz dum on dis.

That is just stupid, stupid, stupid. I can understand how an elderly person whose capacity for understanding is somehow diminished could be fooled into believing this idiocy, but I don't think "micky" falls into this category, which just makes him a liar, a shill, as well as an even bigger fool than we all already knew he was if he buys this stupidity.

"I can understand how an elderly person whose capacity for understanding is somehow diminished could be fooled into believing this idiocy, but I don't think "micky" falls into this category"

That's true. I always envisioned micky as being a bit younger.

Which just goes to prove that you don't have to be old to be stupid. On the other hand, micky and his ilk will drag their knuckles to the grave. No help for the willfully ignorant, no matter how long they live.

"so lets put senors on a slippery slope

And what about senoras? What do you propose for us?

Jess and I were just giggling about that. We thought they should put at least a few senoritas on the slope with the senors, just for company, if not for the propagation of the species.

Now, now Ruth, Why should anyone be on a slipppery slope unless they are skiing or skating, by choice.

That said, I do not, repeat do not, accept that having health care support system that really is meeting society's needs is a slippery slope. It is - and again I repeat myself - a humanitarian commitment.

micky d. used a big word, I bet he doesn't know what it means.

He doesn't know what any of them mean. He just starts puking out unrelated words and hopes they makes sense. Unfortunately, his hopes are inevitably dashed.

Well-Well-Well, no surprise I am considered a stupid idiot, Well, sometimes in my life I would have agreed with that- but not on this day. If you very smarter than me liberals would read sec. 1233 you will see that a doctor will visit you as soon as you enter a hospital or nursing home if you are a senior citizen- this doctor will visit you without you asking for it, the first time visit is automatic and the doctor is paid by the government. That my friends is a fact.
Why should a person be put on a guilt trip for just wanting to live a little longer, how would you like to be told that you are being selfish for wasting money when you are old and sick, money grand-ma that you are taking from the young and useful people.
Being told you should die as soon as possible for the good of others is barbaric and demeaning and it strips these people of any dignity. In fact just having such an idea in a plan for older Americans to read is cruel and demeaning in itself.
How about when a young drug addict is entered into his 10Th drug rehab at the expense of others that this druggie be told hey, that's it pal you are a 10 time loser and gone. It cost to much to keep you around.
Dame or Lame, Ruth, chronic puking by a senior is not going to be treated- under Un-Obamacare- Sayonara-Senora! L----Ruth.

Good!

Horrors! A doctor is going to visit me in a hospital, even if I don't send for him! And he's going to force information and advice on me, even if I'm an illiterate self-admitted "stupid idiot" (as opposed to those other smart idiots).
Micky, would you please quote the parts of 1233 that say the uninvited doctor is going to tell you to die and that you're wasting money? How does instruction in making a living will translate to a "guilt trip"? When did counseling become "cruel and demeaning"
The biggest question, however, is why am I wasting time with a ventriloquist's dummy? Why don't you go and spew your inanities at a town meeting with your fellow puppets? You won't make any more sense there than you do here, but at least you'll be among like-minded morons.

It would be fitting if people had to list their political affiliation upon admission to a hospital, so the people who continue to lie and shill for their financial betters had to pay for a consultation about end-of-life care.

Good idea, Grasshopper! That would give the Micky types a chance to opt out of life altogether. Excellent way to cull the herd!

Almost makes you wonder if he's part of the Palin clan, doesn't it?

Taking literacy classes from baby Trig.

Dame Ruth, your last comment tells everything there is to tell about what kind of a evil- vicious sorry person you are. I feel sorry for you anyone who could say what you said is in need of a soul. Dame, do yourself a favor go visit a home for down-syndrome kids spend a day with these miracle kids and hope you can forgive yourself.
Kris, you make me wonder if you are part of the Hitler Klan- Adolph, thinned the heard, Lame Ruth!!

If you had the IQ of a Downs kid, you'd understand that my comment was a compliment to them, not a putdown. I truly believe little Trig has a greater grasp of reality than you do and could could easily best you in a literacy test.

Oh, micky, you're so stupid you blow my mind. You have no brain and less soul, spend days trying to find a gullible old person to scare, and instead tangled with a senior who would be your intellectual superior while under a general anesthesia -- and now you try to back out of it by feigning (that means "pretending") some sort of "moral" outrage?

By the way, I have at least one friend with DS who would explain to you -- much more nicely than I'm interested in pretending to be -- that it's "thinned the herd." As in "culled the mentally weak, such as 'micky d.,' who's not only excruciatingly stupid but has to create an alter ego just to ooze around a social site, from the herd of other creatures with a less-than-bovine understanding of the world."

I'm sure I lost you there, so let's put it in terms you'll understand: go screw yourself, you lame-assed, ignorant loser.

You go girl!

Would that I could summon up that much civility, Grasshopper!

I'm not civil by choice. I'm civil because technology doesn't let me bitch-slap someone and then spit on them through the computer.

I saw the above comment in my feed, Kris, and had to come tell you I'm putting it in my quote file.

That's the kind of acerbic wit that makes her my Grasshopper, Ms. Fabre. Are you jealous?

I'm honored to be her official Grasshopper. :) Also that you liked that quote, Tracy.

Oh darn! Dame Ruth didn't flag this article, so I can't lay my friend Baino in Australia's favorite descriptive title on micky d. for his obstinate dimwittery. But you can click here for said descriptive; it's obvious how well it fits.

You mean "fuckwit", Roy? Go ahead and use it. Anyone who has read this far and hasn't already flagged it will certainly understand and agree.

An American friend drew my attention to a well-written blog. The writer is American, who lived in the UK for 15 years after she graduated and according to the blog, had 2 children under the care of the NHS, plus lots of investigations. I've just started to read some of the comments (there are hundreds). I urge you to have a look at it, and then use it to 'inform' those who cannot believe we British survive and prosper under a 'socialist' medical system!
http://potentialandexpectations.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/this-americans-experience-of-britains-healthcare-system/

I made out my Living Will in 1994 at age 55. I think everyone should have one.
My estate planning lawyer explained it to me, not a doctor.
But I have a hard time understanding what micky's problem is with people providing instructions to caregivers on what they want them to do at the end of their lives.
This is just another example of the scaremongering about "rationing, socialism," etc. that the Right Wing is trying to use to confuse us into opposing the health care plan.
Oh, and, of course Palin's egregious demagoguery.

Of course, until the government hotline/website opened, MG [Medical Girl] was rather handicapped by the NHS monopoly on supplies of Tamiflu. Even when she thought that the patients would benefit, she could not prescribe it. As a private GP, if she diagnosed a case of H1N1 after NHS surgery hours, she had to call out the (overworked) out-of-hours NHS service if the patient needed Tamiflu. I can understand the government wanting to make it available to all, and to prevent a black market in the drug, but surely it should be possible to license some private GPs?
Financial Times, London--Mrs. Moneypenny