Lie #2: US has better health care than Canada

Let's all move to Canada then.

Seriously, I like a market based health care system better. At the same time, the government needs to step in for those who can't afford the premiums. That's a very small number of people compared to the 330 million people we have living here. I saw the numbers floating anywhere from 15 to 40 million depending on who really wants it and does not have it. So, it seems that all we need for the government to find a way to group those people, buy them health insurance at a discount from one of the market providers.

However the government wants to compete with other providers. That could be a bad thing. It does not have to be, but you have to admit that if some people up there in Washington want to take over health care some day (not accusing Obama for wanting to do), then they will have everything ready to do so.

Obama is not going to nationalize health care. He is setting up a mechanism for someone else to do that some day. Let the same the way it is, find a way to buy health insurance for folks who don't have it.

And when it comes to matters of life and death, the dollar should always be the deciding factor.

Cristos, I am going to dispute your 15 to 40 million. The number without health insurance on any given day is over 47 million. The number without insurance for more than 180 days in any given year is about 21 million. I suspect that the 15 million in your figures is the number not insured for any time in the past year. But I don't know for certain.

We do not need to contract with an insurance company to provide payment for health care providers. IF THE INSURANCE COMPANY IS COMPETENT TO PAY THE PROVIDERS WITH TAX MONEY, THE GOVERNMENT IS COMPETENT TO PAY THE PROVIDERS WITH TAX MONEY. And, if the payment is made directly, the expense of the "honest" broker is eliminated.

I cannot believe you are foolish enough to believe that an insurance company works for free. The public option is expected to become the primary source of coverage for about 119 million individuals if it is made available. It will be chosen by small businesses and individuals, as well as those who are truly destitute, and unable to provide their own insurance. It is your massive group plan, basically putting all uninsured and under-insured into a group, as you suggest, and making the government their insurance provider. The insurance companies could have done this FIFTY OR A HUNDRED YEARS AGO. They didn't, they haven't and the WON'T.

US Canada
HC spending as % of GDP (2005) 16.0% 10.4%

That's the most telling statistic. By most parameters they get better care... and it costs LESS!

The government is not doing a stellar job managing the economy, etc., so why would we want them to "manage" health care? What we need is less politics as usual and more clear, logical thinking. Without excellent health care, I would not be here to write books and paint pictures. It appears that, according to your statistics above, the Canadians are taking better care of their health - less obesity. Interesting post.

Great observation. The entire insurance system is modeled as "we will take care of you," it is not preventative. Instead, why not focus on better taking care of your health.

Would people eat better if they were given the money back to buy healthy food?

It is not the governments job to manage the economy nor health care. The government stepped in the economy because those charged with it faied miserably the same way health care has failed.

When people say that people from other countries come here for healthcare, I respond with Who cares? Are you telling me that a millionaire from another country has more rights to get healthcare in this country than I do? The ONLY people that come here from other countries are the ones with money.

great point. In this case money has no value in their country because they have to wait. Instead they come here and buy the care Americans can'a afford.

Exactly. Our system is FANTASTIC IF you can afford it. What a lot of people don't talk about, are the Americans that go to Canada for medicine, and India for surgery, etc.

My Canadian friends are pleased with their health care and its cost. None of them have sought care in the US for any reason.

Terry, the idea that just because some people cross the border to get care means that they have worse care from the place they left does not cross sixth grade critical thinking.

Many of those folks want redundant testing that canadians doctors won't cave into doing. So they cross the border to get it done.

Also I was talking to a doctor who was telling me that for the past 15 years, most doctors coming off med school don't know how to do investigative diagnosis. They don't what questions to ask, probe, to come up with a diagnosis. They do 20 tests, hoping one becomes positive. According to that doc, a few questions, and knowledge of one's art can cut those tests down. Maybe canadians know how to perform better diagnosis of their patients. No, that's impossible. We have the best doctors, the best nurses, the best soldiers, the best teachers. We are simply the best.

Canada, Australia, and Taiwan are listed as having the best public health care systems.

World Health Organization Places Canada at 30th place in quality of health care using a set of standards that places the good old USA at 37th place, behind Costa Rica and Dominica. The data is a bit old, but the issue at hand is NOT how good it is BUT how good it can be.

When we talk about "our" system, I wonder - are we talking about the HMO system, the PPO system, the Medicare system, the uninsured system, the pay-as-you-go system, the Congressional system, or what...?

Dave, personally I like to think of it as mom told me to think of it. If it can be described, defined, and understood it is a system. Otherwise it is just an expensive mess of arbitrary rules and obstructions to getting the job done. But, you seem to have a good grasp of the American Health Care....ummmmm....ahhh.... thingy that looks sorta like a system.

"Our" system describes the process one goes through from the time you purchase health care, the process you go to when you need to use it.

Yes, different people purchase it through different channels, but in general the system consists of being insured buy one these private insurances.

Coingress is completely ignoring the will of the majority of American citizens. If meaningful legislation is to be passed, there will not be a better time than NOW for a long time.

We will get a watered-down bill that will reorganize the deck chairs on the Titanic. The 800 lb. gorilla sitting in the corner is the lobbyists who control both houses of Congress, Dem., & GOP.

I am not sure there is a big mandate behind reform right now.

One thing not mentioned is that Canada does have private insurance companies as do most major countries in the world. These companies sell co-insurance plans that covers what the basic plan doesn't. Frankly that idea would work here. The fact that the conservatives and blue dogs are fighting so hard against any plan only proves how much money there is in the current system. It's a travesty that all that money can't provide basic care for all citizens.

Great points.

You have dems taking money from these companies. They are not going to do anything to upset them.

Thje USA can and should do better. Insurance companies and big pharma are a large part of the problem which is why we need a public health insurance option.

Nobody is for a government takeover. If Obama and the dems want some day to turn this into a takeover, they will find how much, even democrats are against government being the only answer to this.

That said, we need options. Government should work for the people. A public option will serve keep insurance companies in check.

Don't say nobody. I'm for a complete government take over. The insurance companies have proven that profits come before patients and to me health care ranks right up there with the military. Most of us wouldn't trust the defense of the country to a company like Blackwater, so why trust the health of the citizens to an insurance company?

Don't forget to expose the lies that are associated with government run health care.

Could you provide a link pls for your information?

JAMA 1998 Apr 1; 279:1015-1017

and other medical journals that did the studies. You have to have access to the journal to see the information or you can rely on people who quoted the journals.

Google keywords "USA vs. Canada healthcare"

Thanks and will do

lol you citing a 10 year old study? Have you ever lived under government health care program? When was last time you were in Canada or spoke to a Canadian?

Health care costs are also greatly depended on law suits abuse and what some call "Cover your A_ _ medicine" where docs order every test in the book just in case they get sued. Also government run programs control costs that doctors can charge for services which causes doctor shortages. Unless we account for both of these then it's not a realistic comparison.

a) you don't need to study health care systems every two years or five for that matter. The study itself takes three years. Got it? Other articles and interviews were done as late as 2004.

b) when was the last time I was in Canada? Irrelevant. For all practical purposes, last week. Will be there again in about two weeks. It's a five hour drive from here.

...And those Canadians who come to the US for health care, I meet some of them and talk to them. They come here a lot. Here being Boston, one with credibility can argue, has the best hospitals in the country. Top notch research in biotechnology and pharmacology. One of the best medical school in the world in Harvard med school. Does not mean the care SYSTEM is good. Poor people won't get admitted to Mount Auburn (Havard's research hospitals).

Charles,

Hear's a link

Alan,

Do you think our lifestyle might be the major cause of our obesity problem and not our medical system? Do you think that might affect our life expectancy? Our medical costs?

We have a higher death rate from unnatural causes (car accidents, homicides, etc). You think that might have an effect?

The WHO also found the US had the highest cocaine use. Do you think that might contribute?

If you want to look at how are health care compares wouldn't survival rates be a more appropriate measure?

Charles,
ultimately a care system's efficiency is measured by its ability to care for its people. If you have a high rate of drug users, the care system is not doing its job in education and prevention. We keep on thinking of care system as "taking care of the sick." That's not what a care system is. It also include (in the case of the US), for example, the surgeon general, the FDA, and other agencies, which educate and warn consumers.

As far as the car accidents, homicides, etc... you have a good point there. The life expectancy is only meaningfull if fatality rates are comparable (i.e. no major difference).

Survival rates alone is not a good measure. It would be if you are comparing physicians efficiency. Having less people sick in the first place is part of health care.

Alan, Mike P,

Aren't serious drug users common or even more common in Europe too? Aside from the fact we incarcerate rather than treat such problems, wouldn't that also affect in some way the statistics?

I know the infant mortality rate reported by the UN is incorrect because the data is skewed. Many nations do not record infants who die at birth as statistics, the US records all such and it really does kill us in that category.

Many of those who use reports that blast the US, often neglect to note patient satisfaction is either the highest or second highest by far of all reporting nations. Too many times, both sides but especially national health care supporters are choosy about what they print. I've found it virtually impossible to get anything that approaches a simple data reporting with so many of the reports tainted by political motives.

This is a bunch of BS. Why do Canadians cross the border to come here for specialized care? And if we regulated the Pharma companies and made the pricing of meds FAIR -- Canada's cost would go UP and ours would go DOWN.

Read the Health Care bill before you start telling us we need change. We all agree some changes are needed, but it ain't the changes they are trying to push down our throat in Washington.... don't be blind sheep.