Having an opinion while debating political or religious ideologies is not harassment. Disagreement in a discussion is not harassment. Following certain topics or those who are inclined to post those topics of interest is not harassment.
Writing articles that specifically target another member's appearance, intellectual ability, physical or mental health, then call it satire, is harassment and defamation of character. Writing an article that addresses a topic, even though a member may feel it is about them, is not harassment. For example, one person may write an article about being physically abused in a relationship they chose to stay in, and another may write an article that addresses the issue of enabling abusers.
Creating an alter specifically to target another member and stalk them, (then write an article on how to avoid trolls.. haha) is harassment. It's also being a hypocrite. There's no discussion or debate involved ... and little chance of confronting an issue with the person behind the alter because their sole purpose is to degrade and give false appearances.
Joining a group for the sole purpose of taking over that group, then posting derogatory comments about them in another group, all the while denying you did it, and blaming others for the chaos you created between the two groups is harassment. Sneaky as it is, it is successful in causing division among friends and the perpetrator gets away with it.
Posing questions to trap another into answering in such a way that can not be answered, and when it is answered the question is posed again differently several times, is harassment. I was witness to this approach in questioning toward a member on this site when a certain person sent it to me first to critique before publishing the questions. The purpose is to blame or bad-mouth, or to make the other person appear as a fool, without actually saying it. Trap questions are designed in such a way that no answer will suffice. Men know the technique well when women use it on them. It's a no win situation, and they might as well go bury themselves!
While some may consider a comment sarcastic, if it is written within the confines of truth, it is not harassment. For example, "Don't you do the same thing you're accusing others of doing?" But one who constantly niggles authority for not living up to his/her expectations, whose sole purpose is to ask trap questions in an effort to degrade, humiliate and undermine that authority, is considered harassment, even though it is tolerated due to the other side upholding a professional stance in dealing with a disgruntled patron seeking revenge, or attempting to make him/her self look good, or better than those he/she attempted to debase.
The above stated scenarios are forms of harassment that are practiced on a daily basis here, and these are cases that are the most difficult to take action against. It is as difficult as catching someone hack into the system and exploit a company or individuals, even if there's sufficient written proof that someone claims they've done it. The perpetrator must be caught in action.
These things do happen on Gather, and we are seeing more and more complaints! As if the loopholes needed to be exposed for even more members to exploit.
Hopefully the perpetrator(s) will be exposed sooner rather than later. It takes one better techie to bust another good techie.
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Comments: 70
Low rating won't affect the message :-)
I have learned to ignore ratings. As many have advised me, they are meaningless. A person disagrees with you and gives you a one!
Most of the time it's not even about disagreeing. They just don't want you competing with them. In some cases, like this one, it's the work of cheerleaders rooting for their guy, attempting to stifle the truth.
Hi Deb,
Creating an alter is just over my head, I can't even keep up with ME! (which you probably, already know), I'm wondering if the person writes an article, then does an alter and gives that same article a 10, and sticks up for the whatever's going on in the article, nevermind, I just confused myself, but if you get what I'm saying, can this be done? Sorry, just had two more teeth pulled...
Do you know what a bot is? I don't and do know of two people that had their accounts suspended and didn't know why... Gather finally told them, but it really didn't do any good, since they weren't the ones that did it.
Good post, Deb,
Marilyn
I know bots do, but I don't know how to install one, or use one. Hopefully Gather will be able to track down the bots if they are being used.
As for creating alters to gain points, yes, it is done... but those points are earned. Rating articles doesn't give points as far as I know.
should read, "I know what bots do".
Not from me, I rated this a ten. HA! :)
Wow Deb a lot of thought went into writing this article. A very good article at that.
I believe that when people write about a subject that you wrote about the day before and some others write about the same topic but in jest are doing it to harass you much as you say this isn't a form of harassment. It simply is what it is. Blatant out and out harassment by people who think that they are smarter than you by doing so.
I don't have any qualms about you or anyone speaking their minds but people should be big about what they say and say it to peoples faces instead of beating around the bush and getting all of their cronies to come about to harass you even further.
If it looks like a duck and squaks like a duck then it must be a duck.
Thanks Esther. Some people are just petty and aren't equipped to dispute an issue except on kindergarten level mentality.
I just laugh at their antics and am amused when they expose themselves.
1) It is never the people who expose themselves that you actually want to see naked.
2) It may hurt their fragile little psychies if you point and giggle.
3) If you ignore it, it usually deflates without the pointing and giggling.
Good Post.
Wilka (Proud to have recently been flagged for Hate Speech by "The Community. Expecting the rocks, slings and arrows associated with that judgment. Never saw a rock.)
I just gave you a ten on this post by the way.
Great post, Debra. I can't, for the life of me, understand what pleasure some people get out of causing misery, but Gather is no different from other aspects of life, I guess.
I didn't rate you. I stopped giving ratings, long ago.
Rating means nothing to me, Julie. I use it to gauge how quickly my nemisis show up.
Misery loves company, so they say.
I know; the way ratings are used on this site, they are completely useless.
Here's an article I found on the use of Bots:
Read the entire article, it is interesting.
Cybergangs use cheap labor to break codes on social sites
By Byron Acohido,
USA TODAY SEATTLE — It's become the new front in cybercrime: scams and identity-theft programs that attack e-mail accounts and users of social-networking sites such as Facebook and MySpace. To carry out many of these automated attacks, cybercriminals first must overcome "captchas," the distorted letters and characters that users of an e-mail or social-networking account are required to type to complete certain online forms. For years, captchas have helped to stop or bog down automated programs aimed at creating, among other things, e-mail accounts that promote scams such as fake computer virus protection and bogus accounts on social websites that can be used to collect personal information on legitimate users. Now, security specialists say, a growing number of captcha-breaking groups are using real people to type in captcha responses for cybergangs around the world. This is allowing the gangs to create fake e-mail and social-network accounts by the tens of thousands — and use them as the starting point for a variety of cyberscams spread by e-mail and instant messages. MySpace and Facebook say that, so far, they have kept such attacks largely in check. But security researchers say that as long as captchas are a key security feature on networking websites, cyberattacks on such sites are likely to intensify. "We shouldn't have any illusions about captchas," says Sergei Shevchenko, a virus hunter at Internet security firm PC Tools. "If the professionals want to break in, they'll do it."
Bots and Botnets
Also Known As:
Web agents, Web crawlers, Spiders.
Description:
Software robots called “bots” are programs designed to perform an extensive range of automated tasks. For example, Internet search engines routinely use bots to gather Web-page information and computer games use bots as opponents for human players. Hackers now use bot programs to coordinate groups of personal computers infected by malicious software (see Zombie Drones) for spamming, denial-of-service attacks on Web sites, theft, and fraud. These hacker-controlled networks are called botnets.
How to Recognize This Threat:
If your personal computer becomes increasingly sluggish it may have been co-opted through malicious software, Malware, into a botnet.
What Should I Do:
If you believe your personal computer has been co-opted into a botnet, have it checked by computer services organization. After the PC has been swept clean of possible viruses, worms, Trojan Horses, Spyware, and other Malware, install anti-virus and anti-Spyware software, as well as a firewall. Use a Spam filter. Be wary of opening email attachments, stick to mainstream Web sites, and be exceptionally careful about what you download from the Internet.
I had to give you a ten here, Deb. Excellent article!
Thanks! I appreciate your comment, Shannon!
I've been harassed by several "people" since I joined. Some have created identities just to harass me about my recipes, and I've been harassed in other ways. It hasn't happened in a while, maybe my trolls finally got lives. Yeah? No.
I hope so! I can't imagine recipes being something to harass someone about. I guess it has to do with ego or competition. *shrug. beats me!
Sometimes people have nothing better to do than harass. Oh well. It's Gather and harassment is here to stay!
yep. and so am I, to block 'em every chance I get.
In my eyes, you've become the Gather Superhero, Debra! Lol. Keep up the good work protecting us from the 'forces of evil'.
Interesting article. I hadn't heard of some of this. One thing you said caught my eye: "These things do happen on Gather, and we are seeing more and more complaints!" ... who is the "we" you talk about? It almost sounds like we=Gather, but that doesn't sound likely.
I know that some people write articles in response to someone else's article. Some of that can be just fine (or even complimentary) but the "venting" articles might be considered harassment by some. Is that what you're talking about?
I know sometimes, in dealing with really odd people applying to adopt ferrets, I think my head is going to blow off. Once in a while I'll post a vent or a rant about it, but my intention (and belief) is that those people are not seeing the article. That's probably borderline on my part, but sometimes you just have to let off steam.
I was very curious about the 'bot thing. I read something by a guy who was suspended and I really don't think he did it (not his area of expertise, imo). That would be very frustrating. How could they track that down? How could you defend yourself? Can you plead stupidity as a defense? :)
who is the "we" you talk about?
members just like us, Barb! ;-)
There's a big difference between venting and harassment. Most of us know the difference. I've learned through a few mistakes that while you're venting, you can not name anyone specifically. Some people will recognize themselves and some will know exactly who/what you're talking about because they've seen it.
Yes, but even if you don't name a person, and your vent is about them, didn't you say that it would be harrassment? (I confuse easily these days)
Writing articles that specifically target another member's appearance, intellectual ability, physical or mental health, then call it satire, is harassment and defamation of character
Creating an alter specifically to target another member and stalk them, (then write an article on how to avoid trolls.. haha) is harassment. It's also being a hypocrite.
Yes, but even if you don't name a person, and your vent is about them, didn't you say that it would be harrassment?
Nope. Didn't say that anywhere, Barb.
You can dispute another person's actions, but you can't blatantly accuse them of anything. For example, I may know for a fact that someone claims they can hack this site and I can write about it all day long, but I can't name that person, allow anyone else to name that person, even if they also know for a fact this person has claimed he can hack this site.
I can't post to the person that I know for a fact they can hack this site. I can't even post the emails that person may have sent claiming they can hack this site. (well, technically, I can... but have been advised not to)
You can even dispute someone's ideologies and link to them as an ongoing discussion on a certain topic.
I once questioned Gather inc on why some were posting articles about someone using the target's name in the posts and comments, and those posts were overlooked, while others were not.
It has taken some time for me to learn what is given a pass and what isn't.
Interesting article. I guess I have never felt harassed on gather.
I would say everyones definition of what constitutes harassment is different. For some disagreement is harassing. For others name calling is harassment..I find this one funny because from what I have seen name calling is always a 2 way street.
I guess to me anything beyond hunting me down IRL and harming me or my kids physically I can handle.
Two neo cons hunted me down about ten years ago in real life when they discovered they lived within a 30 mile radius of me. They regretted making that move, as I worked for a private detective, who was a friend of mine, in their own town at the time!
And about the alter making to harass someone I have had this happen several times its usually pretty easy to figure out who the alter is.
my alter outed herself on my article! lol
10 from me! What I find amusing about most Alias "trolls" is their blatant transparency.
The best one I ever saw Spartan was one night there was an article by an obvious alter and things were getting rather heated and the "real" person came in and must have forgot that it was her alter that was arguing with people and made a comment with her real ID. She removed them real quick and then the alter made the comments. Several people including myself saw it.
It sounds like some people have way too much time on their hands. I hope Gather can get things straightened out soon.
My grandfather used to like to say that telling a lie is too difficult because you have to maintain that lie or be exposed.
I think it must work the same way for the member who uses an alter for "ulterior" reasons. (Sorry about the wordplay, but I couldn't resist.) That alter must be maintained to effectively carry out the deed of confusing and fooling other Gather members for the desired result. It really seems quite confusing and hardly worth it. I read the work of a member and his alter about two years ago. I found it extremely entertaining. Then, another Gather member sent me a copy of a message that detailed all of my "contradictions" since joining. Of course, it was complete nonsense. Not that I am perfect. Sometimes I have typos and write something careless like "along" when I mean "a long." This particular Gather member didn't seem to to appreciate the richness of the articles and sharing of ideas and thoughts that can be found on Gather. I think that I feel sorrier for them. They are missing out on the specialness of internet communication. We get to share ideas with like minded people and we have the luxury of written communication to consider the viewpoints of people with whom we disagree. It is all so much better than the "sound byte" form of communication that has become quite normal in our culture's everyday conversation.
I also find it amusing, Joe.
There isn't anything I wouldn't say to someone's face if given the opportunity.
Can't stand the backstabbers. Back in school they were the kids who "pinched" other kids. Or ran screaming to the teachers when the lessons started.
And, as for stalking? How the hell can anybody do that? I can't even begin to keep up with the folks I LIKE, much less try to track the multitudes of idiots on Gather.
Wilka
While you and I don't care for one another's opinion, I totally agree with you, and I think Gather has the wherewithal to find the culprits, and perhaps may soon do so. Some of the bullying you mention is unbeknownst to me, and I am not aware of it happening. One would think I'd get some of that other than the drive-by's which I could care less about. Perhaps, we need to star this article to expose this behavior. I did an article on Gather recently that got flagged. The flagger then wrote how shocked he was that the article was flagged. Gather Inc. commented that he did it write after. It was awesome.
Because people can hide behind a computer screen, they do things they would never do in real life. (Well, most of them wouldn't.) I have about 4 men here who love to intimidate. If only they would show up on my porch so I could give them a good kick in the...
Marilyn, I have seen those four men on your articles. They aren't trying to intimidate you. They're calling you out on your bullsh*t.
That's your opinion, Debra, not mine.
it's not only my opinion, it's my observation ;-)
Just ask her.;-0
going out of ones way to harass shows immature social skills. many people who harass from a computer keyboard are inept at holding a face to face conversation with another human being. they hide behind their screens & attempt to make others feel stupid or mindless. it's cheap therapy; they need to feel they are better than the rest of the world. to some degree i feel sorry for them. however, if they are not willing to help themselves get through their "issues"; my sympathy wanes.
i do appreciate you sharing the information about bot & botnets. i had no clue since i am what i lovingly refer to as techno-illiterate.
Excellent article Debra. Things are definitely going from bad to worse on here aren't they? I was just appalled last night before I signed off to see that another person had a 'bot' placed on their account. This is someone who has to my knowledge never done anything to hurt anyone. I do hope Gather management pools their information and finds out who is behind this type of thing. It's not only bad for the person who is subjected to this type of behavior, but it's bad for Gather itself. Knowing these things go on, who is going to recommend to someone close to them to join the site? Trust me, any family I have who have become Gather members in the past have all been warned by me to avoid certain individuals and to take care what they do here. My own husband will not even sign on to the site since certain things have been brought to the forefront here. Widgets and now bots....no. It's not worth the trouble than can be caused when these things are being done.
Perhaps things wouldn't go from bad to worse if there were not (a) teacher(s) who enjoy exposing vulnerabilites in the system.
As for the bots and extreme increases in points... I'd suggest to everyone that if this happens to you... report it immediately to Gather inc! It's the same principle as having someone accidentally deposit an exorbitant amount of cash in your bank account and you thinking you can keep it. If it doesn't belong to you, you can't keep it, and you risk having your account frozen.
I agree. When I saw that this happened again to someone, I wrote down the time I signed off and the views and comments that I had on my latest post. If there had been something wrong this morning, I would have immediately contacted Gather support.
I am particularly suspicious when someone to whom I'm not connected suddenly appears on my posts or pings and leaves a comment. Twice suspicious if there is a link attached. The comment or ping is immediately deleted and my computer files cleaned out.
How did you know it happened to someone? Or did they talk about it? (I was wondering if there was some external way of telling)
There are posts on Gather claiming they've had a surge in points for no reason. One has posted an article that his points have been frozen due to (apparently) using a bot to gain points.
An article came out last night by Fancy's husband that this is why she was having so much trouble with her account. They finally found out that it was suspended because of a bot and it's now been rectified. That's how we know. It was addressed in public.
Fancy's account has been reinstated. She did an article
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977738039
I found some comments quite interesting.
I would imagine that since there are now two people this 'bot' thing has happened to, perhaps there is a way for Gather to trace back both of their actions and find a common 'link' that enabled someone to do this to them? I don't know, I don't understand all this, but something needs to be done before this possibly happens again.
I plan on harassing Katie relentlessly until she invites me over for supper. I might even create an alter or 2.
Well, apparently I do not have a bot, since my points are doing their usual slow crawl. That's fine with me. Don't need more drama to my life.
Gave you 10. Well written article. Ratings have stopped meaning anything to me because those who have given me low ratings do so only on my controversal articles.
The insults don't mean anything to me either, so harrassment won't work with me. I live in Jamaica, so a bot causing my account to stop getting points is meaningless also.
Thanks Dennis!
Jamaica!
Bob Marley!
Rastafarians!
Reggae!
Ghanja!
WOoT!
Thanks for all the links. Learning about bots the last couple of days has me wondering if the site is safe? From what I have read around here, there are 4 to 6 people that have been infected(?) and for all I know more. Other than points going up radically, how would one know if they have a "bot" and do normal anti-virus programs etc. pick it up?
Your best defense, John, is a rootkit cleaner, firewall, a program like Spybot that detects malware. I use AVG anti virus that includes most of these tools, including a program that scans links before you open them while surfing.
But the problem on Gather is from inside,I believe. IOW, Dan didn't create a bot to increase his points. Either Gather inc was hacked and a bot is placed within the network, or there's a faulty ad with malware attached. (that's my assumption)
Basically, I suspect there was a direct hit on Gather inc... and not individual members.
Bots can do the following:
To solve the bot problem, you need to understand how bots work. Bots are unintelligent. They are designed to stay quiet. However, bots must have a communication channel back to a controller to know what to do. That means traffic on the network, which means we can detect this. So here are a few tips you can do without purchasing a thing:
http://www.bmighty.com/security/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=204803460&pgno=1
Take care, and thanks again.
I have had at least two to four of what you call "alter"s asking for signage. Usually I don't mind even people that disagree following my posts. It is unnerving being stalked, or followed closely on an issue, but I'm not that thin-skinned. If they don't write an email or set up a legit profile of some common interests, I know by their recent entry date and scarce imagination in their description that they are setting up a straw man.
What is more disconcerting is the repeated messages that clog the page at times. I've noticed that a duplicate of an open home page on Gather now kicks pack to a blank sign-on, which shows that the outer shell is more secure.
I'm going to re-read your article of proper usage and try to keep the political debate as civil as possible. If anything I am most guilty of it is leaving too many comments. I don't know whether the person posting prefers prior notice or not sometimes.
Dano. In politics, I'm not sure it's even possible to have civil debate. lol
Like, can we block single commentors from our posts yet?
Wilka