Yet another way to prove to everyone that you are an idiot... argue with an actual, real, living, breathing, ROCKET SCIENTIST about HOW FIRE WORKS... because of course, what does he know? He's only a ROCKET SCIENTIST, right?
Writing my previous post for today (WTMFin' F?) reminded me of something else that happens around gas pumps which has me thinking that maybe the human race is less evolved than we collectively assume; people smoking around the pumps.
Now, most people are aware that gasoline is a flammable substance. Especially in Ohio, where we now have a law that says you can't light a grill within 20 feet of a building, passed in response to some guy having blown up his little hibachi grill on an apartment balcony (because he used gasoline in it) and set the building on fire, people would be well aware that gas is very, very flammable.
Most smokers are aware that the tip of a cigarette being smoked is actually burning, since moments ago they had to light it using a flame. I refuse to give anyone the benefit of doubt regarding whether or not they know that when you ignite something with a flame, it is thereafter on fire. (I do fail miserably to see the logic in setting an object on fire and then sticking it in your mouth so that you can breathe in the burning ashes and poisonous gasses from it, but that's an entirely different rant.)
So... one should be able reasonably expect that most folks would be smart enough to avoid bringing a burning object into the same space as a very, very flammable liquid, especially when there's a lot of said liquid in the ground under said folks' feet. I really think this should fall under the category of common sense. Honestly, who wants to risk being blown to bits the size of corn flakes? I think having that happen to me would kind of suck. I would really prefer to not have that happen.
Why, then, is it that when my co-workers and I go out to make sure our lot is clean and presentable, we find buttloads (pun intended) of spent cigarettes all around the gas pumps? Do people not realize that dropping their smoldering butts (and I've found them still smoldering on the ground) next to the pump is just as stupid as smoking at the pump?
Why, when we catch people in the act and shut off the pump do they get angry with us? Do they really think the sign admonishing them to not smoke is just a suggestion? It's not... it's the law. In fact, we can get busted if we don't stop the pumps when we see them smoking.
My particular store just happens to be a stone's throw away from Wright Patterson Air Force Base. As such, we do get a lot of business from the base, including pilots, marines, independant contractors, tourists, etc. One day about two years ago, a very upset man with one of those nametag/clearance level cards around his neck stomped into the store, pointed out to the first casheir a customer smoking at the pump, then approached the manager of the store. The guy was so mad he was shaking. The cashier shut off the pump immediately while the guy quietly told the manager (who was standing next to me) about the argument he'd had with the smoker.
Apparently, when the guy had reminded the smoker to not smoke at the pump, the smoker had cited an episode of Myth Busters in which they had proved that dropping a cigarette into a puddle of gas would not start a fire. The smug smoker then continued to drag on his butt as the guy explained first that he was a rocket scientist who worked with fighter jets and had nearly a decade of schooling on the subject and multiple decades of experience with flammable substances, and then the difference between the ingition temperature of a puddle of gas and the ignition temperature of a cloud of gas fumes. Myth Busters had not addressed fumes in that episode, nor had they stated that it was safe to smoke at a gas pump. After learning that he was talking to a rocket scientist, the smoker still continued to keep his cigarette lit, called the guy an idiot, and said that he'd seen all the proof he needed on TV. When my co-worker shut off the pump, the smoker came in and threw a royal, screaming fit, threatened to "call corporate" (the manager told him to go ahead... it's to our advantage when they know that we are following the rules), paid for his gas, and then stormed out to his car and drove off. After he left, I calmed down our upset friend by asking the room, "What kind of an idiot argues with a rocket scientist about how fire works?" Everyone laughed, and business went back to normal.
People who think that there is no danger of setting off gas fumes with cigarettes, sparks, etc. must not know how an internal combustion engine works, something I thought was fairly common knowledge. Maybe it's not... I learned it in the 8th grade in science class, but my science teacher had taken a second job as a used car salesman, so maybe he just taught us that because he found it interesting. It's something everyone should know, but I've realized lately that there are a lot of things everyone should know which most people don't. So, for the benefit of those who were never taught this stuff:
The very thing that makes your car go is the fact that gas fumes can be set off easily. (For those readers who didn't learn about the Internal Combustion in science class in school, it's explaned really well HERE.) The important thing to note for this post is how the gas is ignited; remember that in an internal combustion engine, fuel and air are shot into the combustion chamber together. It comes out in a mist, like hair spray from an aerosol can, or perfum from a diffuser. In other words, what is being ignited is gas vapor, not a puddle of gas as in the Mythbusters demonstration.
Now, think back to the last time you accidentally got gas on you. It totally reeked, right? You probably smelled it until you changed your clothes. Even if you didn't, everyone else did. If you know anything about why we smell things, then you know that smell means there are particles of gas in the air. (Yes, when you smell anything, that means that particles of it have gotten into your nose. Think of that the next time someone around you lets a really foul fart! LOL).
The reason why the gas is combined with air is that fire needs oxygen. When a flamable substance is mixed with oxygen, it is much, much easier to ignite. Hopefully everyone reading this learned that in elementary school science just like I did, but if not, you know now. This is not an excuse to pour liquid gas or lighter fluid into the flames on your backyard grill - you can still get burned doing that. It does explain why it's a bad idea to pour gas onto charcoal, let it sit a minute, and then light it... by that time there is a cloud of fumes above the charcoal and there will be a fireball when you drop in that lit match. Hell, even a cigarette lighter works that way, only with butane instead of gasoline. As you flick your Bic, it releases vapor from inside the little plastic part at the same time as the friction created by the device's modern version of flint and steel produces a spark. Every time a smoker lights his/her cancer stick, he/she is demonstrating exactly why one does not want to have any active means of ignition around an active means of dispensing a flammable liquid which evaporates quickly when exposed to air.
Anyway, the vapor effect is why your car has spark plugs and not some kind of flame producing device, and it is what pushes the pistons and makes your engine work in the manner which moves your car. Because it is dealing with a vapor instead of a liquid, less effort is needed to produce a flame, and all of the fuel ignites very, very rapidly instead of the ignition moving slowly across the substance as with wood, coal, or even liquid fuel. This causes an explosion inside the combustion chamber. The force of the explosion moves the piston, etc.
The same thing can happen with gas fumes next to a gas pump. A small spill can produce enough vapor to make a big fireball right where you are standing. Even a single, small spark can be enough to ignite gas fumes.
Don't believe me? Read some proof:
KIVI-TV TODAY'S 6 NEWS
12-Year Old Fire Victim Out Of Surgery After Weekend Gas Station Fire
The kid's step brother was smoking while pumping gas. When the nozzle caught fire, he pulled it out and the kid got sprayed, and ended up burned over a majority of his body.
Woman Smoking While Pumping Gas Ignites Fire, Burns Self And Car
Little-known dangers at gas pumps
From Elizabeth Cohen
CNN
(This article includes an example of a fire started by a spark from static electricity at the pump during refueling.)
If that isn't enough, read This Thread from the Airstream Knowledge Sharing Forums
rate
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 32
I smoke but I am even smart enough to know that. Heck I don't even smoke when I am putting gas in my lawn mower. Duh people.
Exactly! I would expect people to know they should keep flaming objects away from flammable substances... kind of a common sense thing, y'know?
Don't even talk to 'em. Shut th' dam' thing off. i used to drive an amulance. I picked up a whole family of crispy critters at a gas station once (well, there were four ambulances there by the time I got my two loaded). The adult male (I refuse to call this dolt a "father" of any sort) lived for three days. Long enough to be told he'd killed his whole family.
That's what we do... there's a shut off function at the register. They always come right in and yell at us, too, as if that is going to change the law. Buncha morons... O.o
you need a phamplet to give them with pictures of burned bodies.
Yes I know this would not stop mos tof them!
"a law that says you can't light a grill within 20 feet of a building"
while I wouldn't smoke at a gas station while pumping gas I would, without a rocket science degree, be capable of barbequeing within 20 feet of a building. In fact I could probably safely barbeque within 2 feet of a building and whoever allowed the state to pass a law legislating your barbeque needs to have their head examined. Next you'll need a license to carry concealed book matches.
Oh, yes... we have that law... and we have signs up on the highway now telling people to not cut off semis. I think there's actually a specific law about that, too, because apparently in Ohio the law about improper lane change which says you shouldn't cut anyone off isn't enough to convince people to give enough space to a moving object that weighs 10 tons and is much bigger than the little crap-mobile they're driving, LOL!
Renee, I don't understand your comment that you don't smoke when putting gas in your lawn mower? Do you believe the mower is safer than the gas pump? People are going to the ER everyday that try to refill a hot lawn mower. This is a change to save your life twice. Make sure that you do not smoke around any hot source like a lawn mower. Put out your smoke and save your life from a fire, and keep out your smoke to save your life. I just lost my brother in law to cancer from smoking, and my brother is near death from cancer from smoking. I am still alive because I quit before I was thirty, and now I have many things to blame on dying now that I am 78.
I think the comparison here is the small amount of gas vs the larger amount in your car... obviously, fire hurts even when there's only a little fuel for it, but I can see where some people might think less fuel would make a situation safer. I guess that's how that guy who inspired our "no grilling next to your house" law blew up his hibachi.
I am glad you quit smoking, Gordon. I've lost a lot of family (and am still losing family) and a few friends to smoking-related health problems including cancer, heart conditions, emphysema, and strokes.
When I was on oxygen 24 hours a day after being released from the hospital after a bout of respiratory failure, my doctor told me not to cook on my gas stove while using my oxygen. He said to remove the oxygen line when I cook. It was a good thing he said something, because I hadn't even thought of that, even though I knew to keep fire or flame or smokers away from my oxygen. it just hadn't occurred to be that the stove is FLAMES. When I was a kid, a neighbor poured gas into a hole where an outhouse had been and then threw in a match and ran. He expected to get rid of the outhouse mess and smell and then to fill in the hole with dirt. Instead the flames came up out of the hole and right to where he was and he was burned very, very badly. I think he survived but with terrible burns that needed skin grafts and months of treatment. He learned a hard lesson.
When I worked as a CNA we had a patient on oxygen... we kept having to remind people that they couldn't smoke around his machine!
People don't realize how dangerous that is.
On the outhouse fire... eeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuuuu!!! That is a hard and really gross lesson!
I had a customer at work who didn't show up for about a month, then came in covered in bandages. He'd decided to get rid of some old gunpowder by lighting it, but failed to take its age and dryness into account when choosing the length of his fuse... it blew up in his face and burned all of the exposed skin on his arms and legs. To this day he has to keep it covered. Of course, I can only wonder why the hell he had been storing so much gunpowder in the first place!
my brothe in law smoked the WHOLE TIME my mother in law was on oxygen. We could not get him to stop!!!
Another case of I saw it on TV must be true.
I saw it in real life, so it IS true.
Uncle Chuck he's talking about the MythBusters episode the guy was quoting... this was a case of the guy deciding to believe that his cigarette couldn't ignite the gas fumes because he thought MythBusters said said so, when they were really talking about gas puddles, not fumes.
AND that episode was about cell phones.
AND they are CONSTANTLY airing warnings about the things they show, and about NOT trying this at home.
The guy who argued with the rocket scientist wasn't smart enough to quote the ep about cell phones... he was all on about the one where they proved that it is "inaccurate" for movies to show action heroes (or villains) blowing things up by dropping lit cigarettes into gas puddles.
In any case, those who take MythBusters too seriously are often good candidates for Darwin awards. Those guys are interesting, but they address too many ideas which can't be fully investigated in a half-hour or even an hour show.
...and anyway, I think the thing that got me the most was the fact that the idiot at the pump felt comfortable arguing his point about the physics of flammability against a rocket scientist. How could he feel more knowledgeable on that subject than a rocket scientist? Oh, yeah... that's right... he was an idiot!
:P
Cause hims so SMRT, I mean SM*A*RT...
(Thank you Homer Simpson!)
UGH - If I ever see anyone smoking at the pump I think I will just drive on to another gas station up the road to get my gas there instead!!!!!!! What special kind of idiot risks their and their childrens lives that way? I EVEN leave my cell phone in the car because of the static electricity thing. MYTH BUSTERS proved that to be highly unlikely to happen but I say Better Safe Than Sorry - ESPECIALLY when it involves my kids or my own lives!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GEEZ I can't believe there are idiots out there that do this - BUT HEY on the bright side maybe if they did blow themselves up it would do a lot towards cleansing the gene pool! (Kidding)
But think of all the dry cleaning...
Myth Busters also said that jumping into water will keep you from getting killed if someone is shooting at you. In the invasions of both Normandy and Omaha beaches, men died from shots that hit them under water. Whether or not water will save you from being shot (and for how long... I wouldn't dive into a pool because that's an enclosed space and then you're stuck there!) depends on a lot of factors they didn't investigate in their little TV forum for entertainment.
"n the invasions of both Normandy and Omaha beaches, men died from shots that hit them under water. "
My husband went crazy about that one!!! He was yelling at the screen People forget it is TV as in not real, hell even reality TV is still not all real it is cut to show you what they want you to see!!!
EVEN the news slant things to the way they want the viewer to see things -
humans are predictably unthinking and nondiscerning on the best of days~ seriously~ what dolt can't equate flammable fluids with big old blaze from a spark and ash~
o, wait, never mind, we are talking about general hujmans afterall~
carry on~ ;)
LOL yup... that's why the Darwin Awards exist!
Thank you for posting to GutterGirls~
Recently I saw a man smoking while filling his tank, and,worse, he dropped the cigarette onto the ground and did not extinguish it. Instead of putting it out, I told management. I never enjoyed being on fire.
I wanted to scream at the man.
Bet he got mad when they shut off the pumps, too... glad you didn't scream at him though... people like that aren't smart enough to get what you're saying.
Mith Busters were right about jumping into water if someone is shooting at you. Unless he is a trained hunter he will miss you everything he aims at you due to the refraction of the water showing you at a different spot then his aim. By the way Haanah, that you for your comment on my comment on fire. Cell Phones are becoming the worst starter of fires at pumps because people don't understand the large spark they give off when their switch works. The manufacturers are trying to fire proof cell phones but it will be a long time until the person next to you or you have one.
Another thing is that oxygen is your burn sorce for most explosions. If it is a fine liquid or powder vapor the oxygen makes it explosive. Remember that a flame is not necessary for something to explode or catch fire. Play it safe and use every caution you can, and let the other person blow his or her self up. Suggestion that you move to another station is a good one.