Speaking English Doesn’t Automatically Make You A Good American

This is true, but the same is true vice versa. Just because you come over here and not speak english doesn't automatically make you a good American either. You are what you make of it.

Yeah !!!

(Christianity Patriotism and English ????   How DREADFUL !!!!)

George Bush often couldn't speak proper English and he was the president of America...

Juan while I agree with how it is worded here I think the real issue with the non english speaking thingy is this.

If you wanted to immigrate to France and become a citizen does it make sense that you learn to speak French and assimilate into their culture or expect them to try and understand you?

If you go to any country and want to be a citizen that means you want to be a part of their culture and must accept the rules, regulations and norms in that country. 

If you are not willing to do that then maybe its best if you stay in your own country.

Amen to this comment.  Amen.

Double amens.

I rather have a hundred non English neighbors than just one Timothy McVeigh.

Juan than what about the Spanish speaking illegal that is accused of murdering that Chandra Levy?

Or the Spanish speaking illegals that raped that woman in Conneticut and then killed her and her family.

You are assuming that anyone who speaks Spanish not English and lives in the US is good and anyone who wants everyone to speak English if they live here are bad.

The way you are presenting it makes your thought pattern no better than the thought patterns you are complaining about.

Don't you hate Spanish speaking people...

Savo ~ What did you say, I beg your pardon?

One of America's great advantages in the world is that we have many different languages and cultures available among our citizens.  Restricting ourself to English would be a stupid thing to do.

I can agree with the title of your posting. Lori also makes a good point.

And many have complained of Americans going to other countries and not trying to fit in with the way things are done, nor in trying to understand the culture of their new home.

There is an old saying: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." It's kind of like going to someone's home, but not respecting the inhabitants or their customs. If one is invited to dinner, they shouldn't expect to be served only what they might eat if they stayed home, but instead, learn to eat a new dish, which just might be really tasty.

And Tim McVeigh was not a good citizen of the world.

Speaking English and Spanish usually does make you a better paid American worker though.  And because of that, I pay attention to the intolerance but smile at their ignorance.

Gracias Amiga!

Lori you are smarter than that . My point is that those that make a correlation between speaking English and being a good American are shortsighted. As for the example you brought up, those people did not blow up a whole buidling with a daycare full of innocent children.

Juan I didnt see the article that brought this on but it can also be said that the people that ran planes into the twin towers were not English as first language people either.  And most of them were illegally here too.

And those who assume that anyone who illegally immigrates here has the best intentions and is escaping a world that is horrible.

Lori I have never believed or commented that I thought all immigrants, legal or illegal are all good.

Those who flew the planes on September 11 were in the US legally, given student visas by the US government...

Juan never said you did.

Again I didnt see the article that prompted this so I am not sure what upset you so much.

In general a country..any country has to have a certain set of rules, regualtions and laws otherwise there is anarchy.

If you have a link to the original article maybe I could understand what made you mad.

Lori I am not mad or even upset. This is a simple answer to the idea that somehow speaking only English somehow automatically makes you a decent and great American.

Savo please check your facts on the 911 hijackers.

OK Juan.  I thought you were upset about an article you had read.

Do I think it makes you a decent or great American just because you speak English-NO.

Do I think you should learn English to become a citizen? Yes.

I often travel to Mexico on business and for pleasure and have never been disappointed to hear some idiot complaing becasue the waiter or waitress doesn't speak English. That is always makes me laugh .

Which part makes you laugh, Juan?

The part of American's always getting upset over the rest of the world who doesn't speak English.

Juan its no more or less funny that some Americans get upset over the rest of the world not speaking English as it is that some immigrants..illegal or legal...expect to be able to come to the USA and not have to learn the language here.  Some expect translators.  Some expect all official documents and court documents to be written in both English and Spanish.  They expect to be able to get any benefit of being a citizen and not have to make any changes to who they are.

If you come to the USA and want to stay then learn English.  If you go to France and expect to stay learn French.  If you go to Germany and expect to stay learn German.

If you cant do any of that stay home.

I think that is said of us by many people outside of the U.S.

You mean all those countries that actually ENFORCE their immigration laws?

And you "think" does that mean that you just make it up as you go along Juan?

The fact is that if I chose to go to Mexico can I expect them to bend over backwards so I dont have to learn Spanish?  Or would it be up to me...as it was my choice to immigrate there...to learn the language and the customs and traditions...after all no one MADE me go there I did it by my own free will.

If you have a rule about no one putting their feet on the coffee table in your living room and your friends come over and slap their nasty dirty socks on it would you tell them to move their feet and they would or would you expect them to give you a bunch of shat about how its acceptable in THEIR house and now that they are in YOUR house THEIR rules apply?

Same principle.

I have worked with a multitude of people who are immigrants form one country or another.The majority are lovely, hard working family oriented people who are just trying to make a living and get by, like the rest of us. I do have a firm belief that all immigrants should make a concerted effort to learn English, even if only for emergency situations, and meeting the neighbors who don't speak their native tongue, as I would do if I ever moved out of the US. ...For the record, my three years of high school Spanish allows me to order a decent meal in a latino restaurant, but that's about it....lol

There is a church here that still does its services in Swedish.  Nobody cares.

Knowing Spanish actually helps in learning other languages. For example the word "Mio" means "mind" in Spanish and Italian the only difference is the accent on the io is different.

Spanish is a romantic language and as such all other romantic languages in the world are related and easier to learn as a result of a fundamental understanding of the spoken word.  My first language was english with german being my second and then spanish my third and so on and so forth.  I fortunately had the advantage of learning my foreign languages at an early age so that really helped.

Anywhere that I have ever worked or lived with my familitarity of the languages spoken in those different countries has been beneficial in more ways than one.

It also helps in learning your native language with regards to grammar, vocab. etc.

Speaking more than one language actually helps keep the mind sharp.

Then we are doing them a favor.  If you come to the USA learn English it will keep your mind sharp.

In the same light, learning to speak another language should not be met with such a negative view.  I find that being bilingual here in the States is often viewed as a negative thing-- this is a personal opinion and yes, I do speak more than English.

Sophie no one is saying that being bilingual is a bad or negative thing.

but the fact is that in the USA we speak English.  Our school text books are in English our court papers are in English.

By saying that people in the USA not wanting to learn to speak Spanish to be able to communicate with immigrants who come to this country and only speak Spanish is a little silly.

I didn't say that anyone said that.  I am merely stating it.  I am stating it as something that I have experienced and experience often.

I live in the Miami area and I know many people from many different countries who have made every effort to learn English. People need to remember that it actually takes adults longer to learn a new language. I am completing my degree in elementary education and to do so I had to take many classes in child development. It is actually easier for a 5 year old to learn a foreign language than an adult. A developing mind can absorb a new language more easily than a grown mind because the language patterns have not permanently set in. In fact many private schools have children take Spanish and French classes in grades K-2 instead of grades 9-12. Many foreign born people in America are trying to learn English, it just takes time.

I actually had a woman berate me a couple months ago because I make sure that the girls do not lose their ability to speak Spanish.  I never will understand why there are folks out there that think being able to speak more than one language is a bad thing-- especially if you are American.

Personally I can speak and read English, Spanish, French, Italian, Latin and Greek fluently. I understand and can speak enough German and Polish to get by.

Being able to do this opens so many doors and it does not make me uneducated, but better educated in languages than most.

I had a friend send me a link to an article the other day, that I was going to post here on Gather and comment on, but I decided not too.  It really is interesting though and I think you will enjoy it, Juan.

http://www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=94484774819&h=pfkUY&u=lPN6G&ref=mf

Sophie a girl I work with...who is hispanic is in the process of teaching me to speak Spanish.

I think it is a beautiful language but then so is english.

I find it strange that people willing close their minds to other languages. I have always sought out different view points, cultures etc. etc. The more we learn the more we grow as human beings.

By closing their minds to other languages does that mean the people who live and work in the USA and refuse to learn and speak English?

Off the subject a little. Now this seems like the old Gather. I miss this exchange of ideas view points.

The point of my posting was to answer the idiocy of the article in question which attempted to suggest that Christianity, Patriotism and English only is what makes a good American. That in my opinion is huge lie that promotes xenophobia and intolerance.

Timothy McVeigh, huh ?  The only thing I find interesting about this article is the odd question of how it has managed to generate 36 comments, at this point, when it probably shouldn't have received even one.    Do you KNOW for sure how many languages Timothy McVeigh spoke ?  I once heard that he was fluent in Spanish as well as English. Got any evidence to the contrary ?

BTW, whomever you were referring to, I kind of doubt that they were saying that speaking only English, automatically qualifies someone as a "good American".  Doesn't sound too likely.

Robert my point being that the idea that speaking English automaticaly makes a decent and good American is disproven by individuals such as McVeigh how are anything but a real and true American.

Christianity, Patriotism and Xenophobia by The Militant Moderate

Here is a link to the article that prompted my posting.

If we were to ever make speaking English a requirement for citizenship, then many citizens who were born here and consider themselves English-speakers could very well lose their citizenship.  It's absolutely shameful how many Americans have such a poor grasp of proper English speaking, writing and spelling.  Just take a gander around Gather and you'll find quite a few. 

My grandparents came here from Europe and struggled with English their whole lives.  My mother went to school not knowing a word of English.  They tried to learn and ended up speaking very broken English their whole time here, but they were proud to be Americans, worked hard, obeyed the laws of this country and thanked God every day for their lives here. 

If Americans were to go to Europe, they would find most Europeans know three or more languages and speak them all quite frequently amongst themselves.  We have had exchange students spend a semester with us and they knew 5 languages fluently.  Our linguistic ignorance in this country seems to flow over into our view of who is patriotic or not...seems like a silly and meaningless connection to me.  Why don't we all just try to learn more languages ourselves, instead of belittleling other people?

Sheryl I dont see it as belittling anyone.

Should we learn more than one language yes.  Should it be required. No.

While I dont think that it makes you the worlds greatest american just because you can speak the language I dont think it makes you the worlds worst to not know another language other than the one you speak in school and in life.

I have seen both sides of this issue.

There are some people who immigrate here and refuse to learn English instead they think everyone including the government and its entitites should cater to them and learn Spanish or Bosnian or whatever language is their native tongue.

The fact is official or not...in the USA we speak American English.  If you are going to live here and work here and become a part of this culture you need to accept that.  If you are so proud of your heritage that you refuse to accept anything else then stay in your native country.

Its just like anything else in life.

When you get married you or live with someone you accept parts of them into your world.  You need to grow and change with your situation.

This is no different.

I'm not talking about not accepting that English is the prevalent language in the US, Lori.  I'm talking about the obvious prejudice against people who choose to speak another language amongst themselves, or who still consider their native language as being their primary language, or who speak in broken English because it is difficult to learn another language to proficiency (and English is one of the toughest to learn).  I don't see how that makes them any less 'patriotic' or intelligent or deserving of being here. 

When I see some of the comments from people on Gather on this subject, where they are so vehemently against people not speaking English in public, and make really nasty comments, I think of what my grandparents would feel like if they were speaking Polish to each other in a store and someone came up to them and started being nasty and telling them to speak English if they love their country, or say racially hateful things to them.  Even if someone politely told them to speak English they would have been hurt and mortified.  And for what?  What's so wrong with people speaking other languages in public to each other?  I love to hear it.  I was in the Italian section of Boston last week and people were speaking to each other in Italian all over the street, and in restaurants.  It was wonderful. 

I think when you talk about people demanding governmental documents in their own languages, you are speaking of a very small subset of activists.  Other countries have government documents available in other languages for their public - I don't see a big issue with making sure someone can fully understand government information if it's important for them to really understand it.  The alternative is expecting an immigrant to complete years of study in English before even attempting to understand a government or contractual doc that is important to them.  I guess I see the benefits of doing so outweighing the insistence of people that everything is in English regardless, when a good number of those people aren't so good at it themselves. 

Gotcha my bad:))

I agree Sheryl.

 "Here is a link to the article that prompted my posting."

    OK Juan.  I checked out the link, BUT I see nothing in the Militant Moderate's article that presents the "idea that speaking English automaticaly makes a decent and good American".  That appears to be an idea that you have contrived from his presentation, but which wasn't there to begin with.  The presentation does appear to be hostile to non-English speakers, and perhaps, more so to the acceptance of society (mostly egged on by big business) for it, but not in the way you say.

  "Why don't we all just try to learn more languages ourselves,...'

      Because we have no need to.  In Europe, one can hardly travel very far without running into another country with a different language.  That isn't the case in the United States.  Here, as one travels around for thousands of miles (even as far nothe as the North Pole), English continues to be the language commonly spoken, written on road signs. etc.  There is no need to know any other language, unless one were traveling to Mexico, which would be high unadvisable, for various reasons.

traveling to Mexico..highly unadvisable.  Well, if you go to the Caribbean, you'll run into many languages.  Is that highly unadvisable, too?  And just because you don't 'need' to do something to function, you don't think you should?  And maybe that's the excuse many immigrants have - they don't 'need' to learn English because they can rely on a family member for help when they go outside their community. 

You're using the same excuses as they are.  What makes your excuses better?

  "What makes your excuses better?"

      You call it an excuse, I don't.  There is another reason why Americans should speak English only (and why immigrants should too).  It is because language is the central factor of culture.  It is what unites people of a nation into a homogeneous whole, rather than, as Theodore Roosevelt once said : "a tangle of squabbling nationalities."

    From Websters New World College Dictionary, 4th Ed.  here is the definition of a NATION - a community of people with a territory, economic life, and distinct culture and language in common.

   Note the close relationship between nations and their nationalities/languages. 

England/English, Italy/Italian, Spain/Spanish, France/French, Sweden/Swedish, Greece/Greek, Russia/Russian, Japan/Japanese, China/Chinese, Germany/German, Denmark/Danish, etc.