The Patriot Act is the most complete assault on the Bill of Rights since a Congressman named McCarthy started bullying people on television. As described (in short) by the ACLU:
"Most of the changes to surveillance law made by the Patriot Act were part of a longstanding law enforcement wish list that had been previously rejected by Congress, in some cases repeatedly. Congress reversed course because it was bullied into it by the Bush Administration in the frightening weeks after the September 11 attack."
The Homeland Security Agency, the most visible product of that act, is primarily dedicated to doing the most completely wrong thing possible in response to whatever provocation appears in the news. For instance, when a bunch of incompetent bomb-makers nearly blew up half of London, our Homeland Security folks decided the best response would be to dramatically increase the harassment of American airline passengers.
We need to get rid of both of 'em.
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"...primarily dedicated to doing the most completely wrog thing possible in response to whatever provocation appears in the news."
100% spot on!!!
These incompetent feces for gray matter have one mission statement: see how many ammendments in the bill of rights you can toss out.
I used to think that it was only the members of the CIA need to be paraded in front of a firing squad. The #1 spot has now been superceeded by anyone even peripherally associated with homeland insecurity.
HAHAHA! Yes! No doubt! A HUGE firing squad at that!
See, Walker... I told you. Just need to start a fight.
The ACLU lost me when they took Limbaugh's drug case.
ACLU has defended many individuals and groups, whose causes were unpopular. Many do not know how often it defends the rights of churches.
I remain a member and say that overall the ACLU does an excellent job o defending liberty.
Agree 100%. This has been the biggest attack on our freedoms in history! They used 9/11 as an "excuse" to go to war, to bring Homeland Security out of the darkness, and steal our freedom of speech. Ron Paul is the ONLY one who voted against it - because he read it.
I thought Kucinich also voted against all these things as well, but I do agree, it should be abolished.
Kucinich did vote against it.
Kucinich is a Senitor, Paul is a Representitive. They can both claim the honor.
Kucinich is not senator he is a representative.
BTW, Spartan has deleted some of my comments from - http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977718180
and re-wrote one of my comments, including insults.
As he "claims" to be a "writer" he should be ashamed of his actions.
Well, he had a good excuse, Linda.
quote: "I have NO patience for stupidity. Ignorance is forgivable, stupidity is NOT."
No excuse, Debra. If you buy into that, why do you oppose The Patriot Act, which stole our freedom of speech?
That's HIS opinion, not a fact. And, apparently your opinion too, again, not a fact.
When people insult and call names and point the finger, they should remember, there are three fingers pointing back at them. And they only do this when they have no intelligent response.
He has no pity or patience for you.
Linda tell me what freedom the patriot act did not steal.
Debra - that's HIS problem/issue and he should be ashamed of himself.
Jack E - NONE!
I berated my Democratic Senators for voting for it... twice. I could not believe that they had ANY understanding of what they'd done. I'm not sure they do yet.
bottom line, they did NOT READ it! Nor the illegal bailout, nor the illegal stimulus... and this list is endless...
How could they understand it when they openly admitted to not even reading it before they signed it? If we had a legitimate court system their would be no worries and it would be simple to have it and numerous other unconstitutional statutes and agencies removed.
Politicians are all cowards that hide behind loud lip service. The patriot act was voted in by both parties that hid under their desks waiting for the next plane to fall on them.
When politicians have to fight wars their will not be any more wars.
BTW. those of us who agree with you are considered "homegrown terrorists".
Oh, goody! I belong to a group...
Pfaugh! Stoopud dam' g'nonsense!
It appears the r3VOLuton is gaining momentum. End The Fed bill has well over 200 co-signers now.
Neat! I'm finally "IN".
They've been doing some remodeling at our college. One new addition is a holding cell. I thought it was for the law enforcement technology to use for training. Nope. Seems the schoold was given "Homeland Security" money and after they upgraded their campus security's equipment and did some training, they had enough money over to build a jail cell to hold "suspects."
Thank you, Taxpayers. I feel so much safer on campus knowing that the students who park in the staff lot can be locked up.
The whole idea of Homeland Security was crap!
I don't like being a groupie, can I be an axis of evil by myself?
When I first heard the term, me and Hubby looked at each other and said, "The Nazis are here"!
I certainly felt like I was living in a Nazi country when we started the war with Iraq.
I remember being told, more than once, that to keep us safe we'd have to give up some of our rights. I couldn't believe that ANYONE would go for that, but they did. I couldn't believe that peopel were willing to give up their rights for some false sense of security. I just kept thinking, "They won".
I've always said: "I'd rather have freedom than security, because, without freedom, there is NO security."
I agree with you here. Makes me think of Ben Franklin's quote about "Those who give up liberty for saftey deserve neither" Not an exact quote, sorry.
It is similar - and it was his "idea" first - I just put my personal twist on it.
Yep. I agree 100%
Ditto. Our own government damaged our "freedom" in a way "terrorists" could never have hoped to.
Dr. Rand Paul has just endorsed www.retakecongress.com
"For too long Congress has been controlled by special interest. It's about time for the people to Retake Congress from those Special Interest. I whole-heartedly endorse Retake Congress.com" -- Rand Paul
Who can you put into Congress that will not be influenced by lobbyists, campaign contributions, and the powers that be? No matter whom you elect, no matter who gets into office, no matter what you tell your representatives in Congress, they will serve the monied masters.
No consipracy. No cabal. No organization attempting to seize power. Just the usual, year in and year out influence of those with money and power. (Note how the two tend to go together.)
Your efforts to control Congress are hopeless. Our money will always defeat you. The only solution is to change our money because no nation in the history of the world has ever been able to avoid its pitfalls. You will lose your freedom sooner or later. It may already be later.
www.nopom.info
We should change our representatives as often and we change diapers, and for the same reason.
We The People, an indifferent public, are to blame because we keep voting them back into office. So, the established control and corrupt the new.
Limit on number of terms is a necessity.
Good point, Larry. I've always said that your best friend, your next door neighbor, even your mother could go to Washington and end up being Washingtonized. :)
Larry, We are going to have change of money but not the way you think. We will be spending AMEROs in about a year if we don't put a stop to the runnaway spending. spp.com
I totally agree with you on this issue. I do take exception to the claim that Bush bullied Congress into passing it. Congress is and has been so ineffectual and lacking in doing their enumerated duties that they willingly complied with this, they were not forced. Hell they don't read any of the bills sent before them regardless of president, you think they actually made an exception on that one?
I usually disagree with your political posts, but this is something we agree on.
See, almost anybody can find common ground if you look hard enough and talk long enough.
You are so right! Our rights as American individuals are sacrosanct, but this act just took them from us in one fell swoop. I'm sure Miami isn't the only airport where their inspectors are constantly being arrested for stealing from travelers' luggage. And if we want to be watched by government lackeys all the time, we can move to the Communist countries where they at least admit that they do this!
Definately
So, where is this big change Obama promised?
Sorry folks, but I'm feeling a lot more secure now that my former governor is in control of Homeland Security. Guess you have to live near the border to understand that.
Um-m-m-m-m... I DO live near the border.
I think you live near the safer border. ;)
Chuck, mark you callendar we agree. We need to get rid of the Patriot Act and every one of the Acts that support it. Including Homeland Security as established by the Patriot Act.
Put me on the list government spies. I don't want to fly anywhere anyhow.
I agree that more and more of our rights seem to be taken away. And, we as Americans, have to do something before we end up back under a brute rule of many years ago.
Yes Chuck, let the jack-booted fascists have their krystalnacht elsewhere!
Before I can agree with you, I have to throw FEMA a bone for the work they did during last year's flood in my city. They stayed at my hotel and worked very long hours, and when they got back ('round about 10 O'clock) they hung out in the lobby to talk to the flood victims that were staying here also, and help them figure out what forms they needed, and when they could get to their homes to assess the damage.
Now, I had hoped to see Obama repeal the Patriot Act, and I had hoped to see him fight for 'socialized healthcare'. He has done neither, and I'm a lot less hopeful now when I think of him.
FEMA doing what they're 'supposed' to so. Imagine that.
"Those who give up liberty for saftey deserve neither" Not an exact quote, sorry.
Close enough. I have to say I've always thought that quote was pithy and cute, but actually those who give up their freedom for security deserve security. They paid for it.
The problem comes when you give up your freedom and only get the illusion of security. then you're not getting what you paid for.
Actually, those who give up liberty for saftey deserve neither because the concept of giving up liberty for security is absurd and stupid and deserving of neither. To think that people giving up liberty for security is a viable concept is just stupidity, without a disguise.
Who here has been affected by the patriot act?
Don't you have a passport? drivers license? photo id already?
Afraid of what you say on the phone will be recorded?
Captain, I don't care to have someone listening to my phone conversations. I don't care to have Bush or Obama or any future president monitoring their opposition for their second term election, or monitoring anyone who disagrees with them. I don't care to have some strange going through my medical records, retail purchase records, and library reading records. I don't like the idea that the FBI could come into your or my house while I'm gone and go through your, or my stuff, plant bugs and not inform you or I, that they've been there. The point is, that, aside from knowing this stuff isn't private, whomever is victimized by the Patriot Act isn't likely to know it.
What Robert A. said...
A popular theme is "our troops are fighting for our freedoms," (which isn't really true) so it would seem that we value our "freedoms" (we seem to revere the word), and just look what happens.
9/11 happens -- we lose our freedoms (half of the Bill of Rights gone). Who took them away? Was it the "terrorists?" No, it was our own government.
Result of the Patriot Act = "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave" is out the window. It's now "Formerly Free" and "Home of the fearful."
More like East Germany these days, than the America with the slow motion flag waving with Kate Smith singing America the Beautiful in the background.
What a crock. If there's something wrong with it, fix it or have something ready to replace it. But don't tear it down because of your paranoia.
There is something ready to replace it. The Constitution.
Paranoia is what the Patriot Act is all about.
I guess it all depends on what you're paranoid about.
Yes it does Dan. 9/11 was a crimanl act, not a military invasion. It was (according to the official story and 9/11 Commission) a conspiracy of some individuals. According to that scenario, the people who executed the crime died on that day. Only a few other people were involved in the planning. All of al-Qaeda didn't participate in the crime. The nation of Afghanistan wasn't involved, nor was the nation of Iraq, and Pakistan wasn't involved either.
Patriot Act is a gross overreaction that removed half of the Bill of Rights guaranteed to us as citizens by the Constitution.
"Patriot Act is a gross overreaction that removed half of the Bill of Rights guaranteed to us as citizens by the Constitution."
That's a gross over-reaction and over-statement.
Er-r-r-r-r... No - it's not! It's spot on.
I respect your opinion, Chuck, and I hope you can respect mine.
Oops. I forgot. You're a liberal. I guess not.
Yes, repeal the Patriot Act. Even worse than it by far is the knee-jerk reaction to terrorism with the Bush War. We need out of the Middle East ASAP.
Did any reading this live somewhere like Baltomore I woke up to nationa;l Guards walking up my street in Mt. Vernon and I can not recall it getting much better. yes they needed to do soething but the rights we have lost in the prosess have me wondering if we were in the USA or Bush Country
Are you saying this happened today? I think they are doing some training exercises getting ready for a big one next month. Posse cominatus.
NO sorry I wasn't clear.
This started the day of 9/11 peoples that had not seen the news were startled by it for sure. It was happening offf and on till I left in 2004
Mt. Vernon is a nieghborhood we welcome police to help moniter the bashings
but this was over kill
Amazing to9 me how many comments it took for someone to actually support these aboinations. The first thing that crossed my mind when I first heard the terms Homeland Security and Patriot Act was Orwell's 1984. Doublespeak if ever heard. Orwell was only off by a few years.
To John Rebel:
"He who trades -----A----- for ------B---- deserves neither."
What I think Ben Franklin (right?) meant by his pithy and cute aphorism was that people who give up their freedom for security are not worthy of our respect. It has a better ring to it when it's phrased his way, true -- that's why it's so memorable -- but you can't take his phrasing literally. It would be like saying that a guy who spends his money on a TV infomercial's cure for baldness deserves neither hair nor money. That's not right. He deserves hair. The fact that he got suckered in by a con artist doesn't take away the fact that he is the victim of a fraud.
Absolutely wrong...we need the protection...lol!
there you go
They'd whistle a different tune if the feds used the patriot act to track down their traitorous actions called tea parties with their secessionist talk and watering the tree of Liberty with blood. THAT IS A TERRORIST THREAT if ever I heard one!
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