Here are some of my thoughts irt the recent killing of Doctor Tiller. I've based this article mostly on a comment I made on someone else's article here: Kansas Abortion Doctor murdered on second try. by Chris W. May 31, 2009.
I don't know if many people have noticed this. I guess it might depend on how long you've been on this earth/how old you are, etc. whether you've had time to notice this pattern or not; but the definition and need to apply the term 'less suffering' irt abortion has undergone lots of changes since we were first told abortion was only ever going to be performed within the first weeks of pregnancy.
Off the top of my head as I remember it, it's been a horrible progression of progressive thought ... From only being performed within the first weeks and then only if the mother's life was in danger, it "progressed" to being performed...
Only before the first trimester but never after ...and only if the health of the mother was threatened; then, the time when an abortion could be performed was extended to include the second trimester only to save the life of the mother and then over time it was virtually extended electively for almost any reason in some places on into the ninth month by way of partial birth abortion (this link is not gory).
And Doctor Tiller? Apparently he didn't care when he did the abortion right up well into the ninth month (if you follow this link be sure to note the sentence containing this quote "an injection of a medication is made into the fetus to assure that it will be stillborn)." In case you cannot access that site for some reason, you can go here.
I think with Obama as president a child even in the first moments, hours, days? of life is at risk if we follow the progression of abortion and extrapolate into the future what might eventually be 'okay' irt babies.
In regard to Tiller, his murder is tragic for the family. His killer should face the extent of his state's laws and penalties for murder. But let's not go overboard by elevating the doctor or his murder to the status of martyr or national tragedy. Nor can we realistically compare his killer in a totally knee-jerk, and unwarranted way to national enemies like AlQedawhatever and Islamic extremists.
His killer is just another murderer, no better no worse than any other murderer. He is not and should never be viewed as a hero; neither is he a demon or terroist.
And Doc Tiller? He is just another sad tragic victim; no better, no worse than any other murder victim. He is no martyr and he is also no hero.
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Comments: 59
This was certainly the calmest article about this I've seen here.
I'm glad I'll never get pregnant. It sounds stressful enough, especially if something should go tragically wrong later then sooner and then a medical problem becomes a partisan political problem.
Hello Peter,
I can't stay long but wanted to thank you for your comment ...
And thank you for the article ... and sadly I bet it won't get as many comments as the far more hysterical ones.
It is stressful to be pregnant .. mostly in a good way but there are those nagging thoughts and fears ... Still, for the most part those fears come to nothing. :)
Peter Joseph Swanson Jun 1, 2009, 3:14pm EDT
This was certainly the calmest article about this I've seen here.
I'm glad I'll never get pregnant. It sounds stressful enough, especially if something should go tragically wrong later then sooner and then a medical problem becomes a partisan political problem.
But if something does go wrong "later rather than sooner" ...these days a 'fetus' is viable at younger and younger ages, so especially in those later months there really is no reason for abortion at all. No reason for it to become a 'partisan political problem.' Many times, the child can be removed from the womb in a matter of moments in order to give the mother more chance at healing from some traumas or to save mom's life.
From what I've read, on both sides of the argument though, sometimes the phrase "save the life of the mother" doesn't mean the same thing to all the parties involved.
Sometimes saving the life of the mother means exactly what the words say - that "at the last minute literally, something went wrong and it's a choice "between" the mother and child; it's a true choice of "one or the other"(last minute; not months before and then finally decide to take action through abortion.). That is and should be a terrible, excrutiating, and stressful decision IF the mother feels there is a decision to made at all.
Some mothers see no problem and no decision to be made; the child she decided to create and has fallen in love with comes first, period. Sometimes the decision goes the other way. That is stressful for all and not something any person who is not involved should butt into. Either a baby is/may be dead or a woman is/may be dead after all is said and done. That is a decision, in this context, is among but three mom, dad, and God.
Peter Joseph Swanson Jun 1, 2009, 3:14pm EDT
This was certainly the calmest article about this I've seen here.
I'm glad I'll never get pregnant. It sounds stressful enough, especially if something should go tragically wrong later then sooner and then a medical problem becomes a partisan political problem.
...But sometimes saving the life of the mother means saving the life of the mother by making sure she can still go to college, or still be able to afford to go to Starbucks three times a week and climb El Capitan this season with all those new people she met last summer, or still marry her boyfriend without having to tell him she was pregnant with someone else's child.
Sometimes it means saving the life of the mother by taking this responsibility off her hands cause she has decided after all that she isn't ready to be a mom or can't afford to keep the baby or is just sick of being tied down and doesn't want to think about it anymore. Or her husband boyfriend mom dad cousin whoever has decided (at the last minute?) they won't help and she is on her own if she has the child.
This if off the top of my head you understand and I hope you know I'm not "ranting" at you or really at all. I'm just expressing my thoughts, the understanding I've come away with after having lived many years and after having read up on it quite a bit.
Anyway ... sometimes women wait to make those crucial decisions, decisions and choices that should have been made sooner ... sometimes (for whatever reason) they wait too long and then they "need" a late term abortion. These women ... well, let me not go there. Suffice it to say that having a late term abortion for any of those reasons or similar ones is bad, horrible, ghoolish (as Paul says later on in the comments). It's definitely murder when a viable baby is aborted (brain scrambled and sucked?) for any of those or similar reasons.
Peter Joseph Swanson Jun 1, 2009, 3:14pm EDT
This was certainly the calmest article about this I've seen here.
I'm glad I'll never get pregnant. It sounds stressful enough, especially if something should go tragically wrong later then sooner and then a medical problem becomes a partisan political problem.
I knew the risks when I got pregnant. All women should know there are risks.
We choose to take those risks when we allow ourselves to get pregnant. It really is all about choice, and not just the ability to be able to choose to have an abortion.
'Choice' begins at the very beginning. If women don't want to face the possibility of last minute challenges and risks of pregnancy, they can choose to not get pregnant; they can choose to try to stay out of situations in which they may get pregnant against their will, they can choose to not have sex at all, they can choose to be extrememely vigilant with their Birth control methods. They can begin to educate themselves so they make better choices irt the people they choose to 'partner' with.
These choices are all valid and are better choices than to 'choose' to have a viable child's brains sucked out after choosing to get pregnant, choosing to stay pregnant for many months, choosing to be pregnant through the 8th and ninth month. . . . Women should choose to be responsible and make responsible choices before they are "forced" to make the choice to have a late term elective abortion in which a real baby is really killed.
I understand sometimes it isn't in any way a woman's choice to be pregnant; but in that case they still have many weeks to choose to take the life of that child (or lump as the terms apply in any given person's outlook on these things). Weeks, sometimes months. Even in the case of a child who may be impregnated ... there is hardly ever a reason to wait so long to "take care of it."
No reason to wait to make that final choice at the end of a pregnancy. Because no matter what the circumstances were that brought the woman/girl to the point at which a late term elective abortion enters her mind as an 'alternative,' once the child is a child even by "pro-choice" standards, and able to survive outside the womb the choice then becomes a choice to either kill the child or let the child live. Even in a true emergency situation, that is the final choice in later term 'abortions.' And that's the truth of it. +shrug+
Peter Joseph Swanson Jun 1, 2009, 3:14pm EDT
This was certainly the calmest article about this I've seen here.
I'm glad I'll never get pregnant. It sounds stressful enough, especially if something should go tragically wrong later then sooner and then a medical problem becomes a partisan political problem.
The facts are that the law, especially in Kansas is strict as to when late term abortions can be done and Dr. Tiller followed the law. He did abortions when the mother's life was threatened, the baby had died in utero, or when the baby had severe abnormalities. Many hospitals (especially Catholic) refuse to perform an abortion on a mother even if her life was at stake. Dr. Tiller saved the lives of many women.
Carla; The anti-abortion people (I'll never call them pro-life) have tried to make this an issue of the relative morality of a man who performed legal medical services for women vs. their viewpoint that the fetus is exalted above the life of the mother.
It certainly doesn't matter that the man was a husband, a father, a friend, a churchgoer, a member of his community. It doesn't matter that what he was doing was legal. They've rationalized his death by their opposition to his activities.
Thank you for pointing out the FACTS here, Carla. Tiller WAS acting in strict accordance with the law, something that is lost here on the "feelings are more important than facts" murder in the name of Jesus crowd and the occasional Douche Bag who just likes to chime in with uniformed opinions on hot button issues 'cause he needs the gather money! Yeah...I'm talking about you, Tommy Boy!
I'll stick with the decision made by the US Supreme Court, Tommy boy!
Also, for such an outspoken homophobe...you sure are obsessed with male genitalia! LOL
Excellent job on giving HALF the facts, Tommy boy!
"Defending Tiller means you're pro-holocaust."
The Holocaust happened before I was born.
I don't regard performing legal medical procedures the Holocaust.
" 3 out 4 Americans called late term abortions "disgusting" in a USA Today poll. And it's hardly a right wing newspaper."
That's fine. People are entitled to their opinions. I recognize that as odious as the procedure may be on a medical level, that sometimes it's just necessary. Again, it's not up to me to make another adult's medical decisions for them.
I would not make the judgment that Dr. Tiller was not a martyr. He was apparently not only a pillar of his community, but his clinic performed a wide variety of reproductive services for women, including adoption.
Tom, if your own personal belief is that Hitler was such a good guy, then you go ahead and think that way. It's much more a reflection on you than anyone else. Given some of your other stated opinions, it doesn't surprise me in the least.
Tom;
If your definition of abortion is killing babies, I guess you can justify anything.
He was performing a legal medical procedure on people who came to him for those services.
What would be ironic, if it weren't so nonsensical, is the fantasy that even if these fetuses had been able to come to term, that the frightwing would have anything to do with them.
You wouldn't make sure they had health care, or education, or even food and shelter. Essentially, they'd be on their own.
At nine weeks it also still has a f**king tail, you moron!
It is such a great compliment that you take my words and turn around and use them, Tommy boy!
To paraphrase Robin Williams from Good Morning Vietnam: "you are more in need of a blow-job than any other white man on the planet"! ROTFLMAO
uh huh....LOL
Maybe we shouldn't be so critical of Hitler?
Hitler and his boys only murdered a few million, Dr Tiller and his people in their industry have murdered 1.4 million plus per year here in the USA for many years.
While you're at it Scott, why don't you just deny that the Holocaust even happened?
That seems right up your alley.
Tom,
If that's your belief, so be it.
When the rule of law breaks down, anarchy reigns.
I guess that now you're officially an anarchist.
"More people are aligned with my beliefs than yours. That's why most states outlaw the procedures that Tiller was engaged in."
I'm sure that gives you some comfort. It doesn't do anything for me.
"Your comments make it clear that you're devoid of any sense or compassion."
My compassion is not at issue here, the rule of law vs. anarchy is.
Over due abortion?
For those of you who seem to think that late term abortions are done on a wim need to understand 2 important points.
1. Dr. Tiller followed the law regarding the process according to medical direction for the state of Kansas.
2. The late term abortions, were women who had their fetus DIE while inuetero. Normally, a woman's body will expell it, as in regular labor. If it dose not expell it in a natural process, it will start to rot and cause Sepsis (Blood Poisoning) which is deadly...
NOW will someone tell me why all the pro life folks that chant, carry banners, and signs are not adopting all those children who were allowed to be born, and have no place to live, no one to raise them, feed them and see that they get to school each morning...give them the life they support with all their Pro Life signs and beliefs.
Don't know about some other states, but here in the state of WA there are over 15,000 foster children who need parents....and the state of WA has just cut many programs to help the underpriviged, because the money is not there...closing schools, and laying of hundreds of teachers for those who do have parents...
- but boy you should see the roads, and bridges and sports programs we are financially prepared for...
Donna;
That's the motto of the Fat Head party: "Life begins at conception and ends at birth".
I'm not advocating abortion at all.
I'm advocating the rule of law vs. anarchy.
Hello, Donna.
There is still some debate about whether or not Dr. Tiller followed the law. He certainly made it look like he was following the law ... and he was about as slick as they come with friends in high places in his recent trial. . .
... I don't know if there is a conspiracy there or not, but I am concerned about the relationship between him and his 'consulting physician.'
Excerpt from the above link: "The consulting physician, Ann Kristin Neuhaus, has been twice branded a danger to the public by the Kansas Healing Arts Board and has no practice at all other than rubber-stamping the death warrants coming out of Tiller's office. "
Instead, the millions Tiller had contributed to local Democrats earned him a special exemption from state law and even a night in his honor in the middle of the criminal investigation chez Sebelius.
Tiller boasts on his website of having performed more than 60,000 abortions of "fetuses over 24 weeks." Evidence suggests that the great majority of these babies were killed with equal indifference to the law.
His innocence actually seems to have hinged on her involvement and their relationship. And about whom and whose examination I can find no documentation of her having been dissected very deeply at all by the 'new' prosecutor (that's a terrible sentence, I know ... ). That doesn't mean the info isn't out there, just means I haven't found it.
In any case, the info I can find, in fact, reminds me of how the recent voluntary dismissal of the The New Black Panther voting irregularity thing seems to have been handled.
Gather-documented, here (mine), mine too, *Carol ~Bronx Southern Belle D.'s, and here (Nippy Katz's).
Donna M. Jun 1, 2009, 9:41pm EDT
For those of you who seem to think that late term abortions are done on a wim need to understand 2 important points.
1. Dr. Tiller followed the law regarding the process according to medical direction for the state of Kansas.
2. The late term abortions, were women who had their fetus DIE while inuetero. Normally, a woman's body will expell it, as in regular labor. If it dose not expell it in a natural process, it will start to rot and cause Sepsis (Blood Poisoning) which is deadly...
2. The late term abortions, were women who had their fetus DIE while inuetero.
It doesn't look like the fetus was always 'dead' when Dr. Tiller came into the picture. The description of the procedure on his web site for abortion irt "fetal anomaly" and for "elective" late term abortion is the same.
Take a look, here:
Women's Health Care Services:Procedure
"Your cervix will be opened over a one to four day period with repeated insertions of sponge-like sticks (laminaria). When your cervix is opened adequately, labor will be induced with naturally occurring hormones, and you will have your abortion under "twilight" sedation. With twilight anesthesia for the labor and delivery most patients do not remember much about the process. Generous amounts of medication are administered during the labor to relieve discomfort. On the first day of the abortion, an injection of a medication is made into the fetus to assure that it will be stillborn and will not experience any discomfort during the procedure."
Late Abortion Care Elective
"At Women's Health Care Services, we specialize in "late" abortion care. We are able to perform elective abortions to the time in the pregnancy when the fetus is viable. Viability is not a set point in time. Viability is determined by the attending physician and is based on sonogram results, physical examination and last menstrual period date (if known)."
From the above quote you can see why it was important for "Dr." Ann Kristin Neuhaus's relationship with him to have been much more prominent and central than it seems to have been, since she was supposed to be an independent source for second the opinion that would either allow a particular abortion to go forward or stop it in it's tracks. From my pov anyway.
Donna M. Jun 1, 2009, 9:41pm EDT
For those of you who seem to think that late term abortions are done on a wim need to understand 2 important points.
1. Dr. Tiller followed the law regarding the process according to medical direction for the state of Kansas.
2. The late term abortions, were women who had their fetus DIE while inuetero. Normally, a woman's body will expell it, as in regular labor. If it dose not expell it in a natural process, it will start to rot and cause Sepsis (Blood Poisoning) which is deadly...
NOW will someone tell me why all the pro life folks that chant, carry banners, and signs are not adopting all those children who were allowed to be born, and have no place to live, no one to raise them, feed them and see that they get to school each morning...give them the life they support with all their Pro Life signs and beliefs.
Don't know about some other states, but here in the state of WA there are over 15,000 foster children who need parents....and the state of WA has just cut many programs to help the underpriviged, because the money is not there...closing schools, and laying of hundreds of teachers for those who do have parents...
- but boy you should see the roads, and bridges and sports programs we are financially prepared for...
Tom,
With your admitted admiration for Hitler, I'm sure you look great in a brown shirt. In fact, I bet instead of Christmas you celebrate Krystalnacht.
It was a terrible crime and tragic that someone killed this doctor. However, the TV news stated that this abortion doctor was a Christian. Those two words are not compatible. A Christian does not kill nearly born children. If the baby was dead already, then it was ok for him to deliver it in the best possible way. But it was not ok for him to kill a late term live infant. If the mother's life was at stake, they could have delivered a live infant by c-section. If the unborn infant is too severely deformed to live after birth, then it will die on its own. They don't need to stick a needle into it with a "medication" to kill it so it will be born dead! As for all the babies in foster homes that need to be adopted. Many people would adopt but don't meet the qualifications as to income, age, size of home. health, etc. They don't give the children to just anyone. You have to pass certain qualifications first and they can be quite strict sometimes.
Judge not that ye be not judged.
Carla said:
Judge not that ye be not judged
Janet said:
Those two words are not compatible. A Christian does not kill nearly born children.
If the baby was dead already, then it was ok for him to deliver it in the best possible way. But it was not ok for him to kill a late term live infant. If the mother's life was at stake, they could have delivered a live infant by c-section. If the unborn infant is too severely deformed to live after birth, then it will die on its own.
They don't need to stick a needle into it with a "medication" to kill it so it will be born dead!
I agree, Janet.
Although I can't say whether he was a Christian or not. I've done things even since I was saved that could lead someone to think I wasn't a Christian even though I certainly am; I'm not perfect, I'm a work in progress.
And whether or not any of us can get a handle on this, he also may have been a work in progress. He could have been a spiritually done deal, too. But that's not for us to know or specualte about as if we know it for sure. Btw, I'm not lecturing you .... I do not think this is what you've done. I'm just going with the flow of thoughts your (and Carla's) comment brought to mind.
There are times in all our lives . . . I'm sure you know this .... sometimes when we are entangled in things which at the very least, *look like* sin outwardly, or in things which are actually sinful ... sometimes for Christians that outward appearance of (or outward actual) sin is just a symptom of, or a precursor for God's judgement or discipline in our lives currently, or surely coming. What I mean is, sometimes being caught entirely *in* the sin can be the judgement, or "correction" of the Lord (either 'for a time' or permanently). We can't know where he was in his heart walk with the Lord, we can't know where he was irt any 'desert' or discipline time he may have been going through; and we can't know what his decisions were irt any discipline he may have been experiencing.
In addition to all of that, we also can't know how his last moments passed. For all we know he embraced the Lord and found forgiveness in those last moments. Not for me to say one way or another. Can't even cover all the possibilities of how and when why etc of God's working in his life, but in any case we can't know any of that from what we could see outwardly. Those things are not for us to judge.
But while his inward or spiritual position while he was living, as well as now that he is gone, is not something we can know or should speculate on; his outward actions while he was alive certainly are known. What he did for a living ... legal or not according to the standards of "the world" ... certainly does not square with what I've learned from the Bible in the 10 or so years I studied it. His publically known and seemingly celebrated actions can be judged and should be publicly "corrected /judged" as much as is possible given the climate of the culture in which we live.
Carla G. Jun 1, 2009, 11:23pm EDT
Judge not that ye be not judged
Janet H. Jun 1, 2009, 9:57pm EDT
It was a terrible crime and tragic that someone killed this doctor. However, the TV news stated that this abortion doctor was a Christian. Those two words are not compatible. A Christian does not kill nearly born children.
If the baby was dead already, then it was ok for him to deliver it in the best possible way. But it was not ok for him to kill a late term live infant. If the mother's life was at stake, they could have delivered a live infant by c-section. If the unborn infant is too severely deformed to live after birth, then it will die on its own.
They don't need to stick a needle into it with a "medication" to kill it so it will be born dead! As for all the babies in foster homes that need to be adopted. Many people would adopt but don't meet the qualifications as to income, age, size of home. health, etc. They don't give the children to just anyone. You have to pass certain qualifications first and they can be quite strict sometimes.
In my comment above I said, "For all we know he [embraced the Lord] and found forgiveness in those last moments."
I should have said, "For all we know he [embraced the Lord's corrections /discipline] and found forgiveness in those last moments".
It's a GRUESOME pratice (Abortion) whatever they call IT! Creepy!
I'd go as far to say it's GHOULISH, performed by White-coat Ghouls . .
I'd go as far to say that the first clue you get will be your first clue.
I agree, Paul. Thanks for the comment. :)
Paul Allen Leoncini Jun 1, 2009, 10:06pm EDT
It's a GRUESOME pratice (Abortion) whatever they call IT! Creepy!
Thank you, thank you . . Lee
A Christian does not kill nearly born children.
That's a Fact !
And Christians don't say what Scott said in a recent post:
"It's been a long wait. I have waited for years for Dr. Tiller to die.This is one happy day!"
Remember that old saying "If men got pregnant abortion would be a sacrament".
Abortions have always and will always happen. Women die from back alley abortions, they can't feed the one they're aborting and won't be around to feed the rest if she dies.
Rich women went to Europe for over 100 years, poor women died.
That's the issue folks. MONEY!
Sharon,
Money is one issue of course. But in late term abortions we aren't just talking about a lump of tissue anymore. It is an actual full term baby.
Money may make the world go around and money may actually, in the real world, be what motivates most of us; but when we are talking about a full term baby money shouldn't be the issue at all even if a woman is poor as dirt. Life, babies, human babies still mean something I hope. Life will out. Life. Humans, the most intelligent, creative, driven and best species on the earth; in a late term termination of the life of a baby ... money should be the last thing one is thiniking about.
Money, poverty, illness ... all horrible things to face when a new baby is on the way; but if a pregnancy has been allowed to progress to the later stages it's more about the baby than about the problems and cares of anyone else. It's about making better choices before having to confront the choice of whether or not to do a late term abortion.
And when/if one is confronted with that abominable choice ... to realize it is a choice of either /or - either the mother dies or the baby dies. There is no quibbling here if a late term abortion or partial birth abortion is elective in nature and not due to anomaly. There is the real possibility that someone is going to die even if it's an emergency situation. Either the woman will die or the baby will die.
I know, I know ... allll late term abortions are emergency or dire health concerns for the mom. I know I know. And I have a bridge I want to sell you if you believe or expect me to believe that. lol I think I went into that in my comments to Peter above.
But in that case, if it is a true emergency or dire health threat, I totally understand the gravity of the situation and that particular choice is between the mother, the father, and their God. Even then, though, it's a choice between life and death, not a matter of just getting rid of some unwanted tissue. Can we agree on that?
sharon SugarMomma is a wise woman, Jun 1, 2009, 11:38pm EDT
Remember that old saying "If men got pregnant abortion would be a sacrament".
Abortions have always and will always happen. Women die from back alley abortions, they can't feed the one they're aborting and won't be around to feed the rest if she dies.
Rich women went to Europe for over 100 years, poor women died.
That's the issue folks. MONEY!
And Christians don't say what Scott said in a recent post:
"It's been a long wait. I have waited for years for Dr. Tiller to die.This is one happy day!"
They do if they hate evil. The man refused to stop the killings. I prayed for him for years.
Its ok to be glad a baby killer can no longer murder. You new age people are strange.
I see you still think you're a Christian.
Test for Carla. Carla Is Jesus the only way to Heaven?
Lee, this is an excellent article! It should serve to bring all sides to some sence of civility and antipathy for murder period.
Scott, Carla is unitarian I believe. Research this religion for yourself and you will have your answer my friend.....
Good to see you, Sandy.
Thanks. :) I had to write it ... you know what I mean.
It begged to be written (I read something on Gather about how that happens, and even though I am not a writer, I think I understood that feeling. If I could remember who wrote it I'd put the link to that article here. If I do run across it I'll add the link later.
Sandy A and John J. Jun 2, 2009, 12:56am EDT
Lee, this is an excellent article! It should serve to bring all sides to some sence of civility and antipathy for murder period.
Scott, Carla is unitarian I believe. Research this religion for yourself and you will have your answer my friend.....
Yes I know she is unitarian, She does not like to be called new age, but likes to be called new thought. The new thought people are offspring of the new age movement. Have you ever noticed how she is always on the side of the pagans? If I remeber right she said she was a Christian. I love her and may God have mercy on her. I pray that God opens her eyes.
It's all new age my friend... Clever doctrine of devils, plain and simple. It has led so many unsuspecting, kind and good souls right to the edge of life and then over the cliff to eternal damnation while the devil dances with glee......
The above comment was a reply to Scott and didn't pertain to this article in particular. Sorry for any confusion and/or adding to the litter being strewn about.....
"His killer is just another murderer, no better no worse than any other murderer. He is not and should never be viewed as a hero; neither is he a demon or terroist."
Yes, he is a terrorist. He killed a man as a means of terrorizing others into conforming to his belief system. This was not a random act of violence or a crime of passion or even a disspassionate "hit". It was a terroristic act, perpetrated for the same reason that other fanatics perform such acts. To force others to surrender to the beliefs of the terrorist out of fear.
This... this is a terrorist suspect. This man and any possible cohorts of his are or may be a real national threat. This is a national terrorist killing. This guy will probably be named a terrorist.
Source: Arkansas Shooting "Suspect Searched Targeted Sites on Google
Excerpt:
The news of more targets allegedly found on Muhammad's computer suggested that he may have been part of a larger attack plot and may not have been acting alone, a senior U.S. official told FOX earlier."
I'm okay that you don't agree with me. I do not see the guy who killed the abortion doctor as a terrorist. However, I agree he may well be a fanatic; don't know that yet either though.
But what we do know is, he had one victim in mind. His murder days are over. He is now a murderer and must face the extent of the law and punishment for that crime. But he does not rise to the same level as this Muhammad guy might. He just doesn't. You may think so but I don't.
I can't be in the guy's head but I'm guessing that after I don't know how many years of abortion being legal ... I doubt the killer had any delusions that what he planned to do was going to force anyone to surrender to anything. I get the feeling, so far, that he just wanted Tiller dead and had no further thoughts or expectations for forcing any kind of concessions from the abortion camp.
No matter ... if your opinion is that this guy is a terrorist so be it. Perhaps something will happen in the future to change my mind to your pov; at this point, though I am sticking to my original opinion.</p><p></p>
Julie Ann Dawson Jun 3, 2009, 6:45pm EDT
"His killer is just another murderer, no better no worse than any other murderer. He is not and should never be viewed as a hero; neither is he a demon or terroist."
Yes, he is a terrorist. He killed a man as a means of terrorizing others into conforming to his belief system. This was not a random act of violence or a crime of passion or even a disspassionate "hit". It was a terroristic act, perpetrated for the same reason that other fanatics perform such acts. To force others to surrender to the beliefs of the terrorist out of fear.
Just think. Dr. Tiller will never ever hurt another little one, ever.
So that makes his murder OK to you?
Julie,
Don't get me wrong, I do appreciate Scott's input but I don't agree (totally) with his assesment of the murder of this (look I have a hard time giving him the title of Doctor but that's what he called himself so..) - I don't agree totally with Scott's assessment of the murder of this doctor although I agree his loss is a grief and tragedy mainly for his family and as an indication of how far we, as 'humanity' have not "evolved".
As for other women who might have "needed" his services in the future? There are others who can fill in for him until someone else steps up to fill his vacant shoes.
The problem I have with this - and I really didn't believe it would happen which is why I didn't dwell on it til now ... but the problem I actually am having with this is the coverage.
His death is a big deal. Murder is bad except for a few legal definitions irt it. But the coverage of his murder is way out of proportion to it's actual importance in the scheme of things nationally.
It has eclipsed what is actually a real and more important story:
Source: Arkansas Shooting "Suspect Searched Targeted Sites on Google
Excerpt:
The news of more targets allegedly found on Muhammad's computer suggested that he may have been part of a larger attack plot and may not have been acting alone, a senior U.S. official told FOX earlier."
Julie Ann Dawson Jun 4, 2009, 6:13pm EDT
So that makes his murder OK to you?
No ... his murder is not okay; but in the scheme of things ... well, his is just another murder in a long line of murders from the beginning of time. Sad but monumental only to those who know him or to those who would use him as a political pawn. +shrug+
Julie Ann Dawson Jun 4, 2009, 6:13pm EDT
So that makes his murder OK to you?
It's sad he was murdered and its wonderful that he can no longer hurt the little ones. It's even more sad Julie that you could care less about the little ones it seems. Is that a witch thing?
Scott,
Thank you so much for your comments. I can't celebrate this man's death with you, nor the manner of it, but I absolutely can celebrate with you irt the children who will not die at his hand in the future.