Rant and Rave Against Patriarchy

You are absolutely right, marriage is oppressive to women, and things did not get better after 9/11 when communications such as these, when trying to deal with spousal information on the phone sometimes make it impossible.

 

 

Fully agree, dear Susan! :-) This is outrageous. I forwarded this post to one of my oldest and dearest friends here, Leah, who (as the whole Gather knows) has a LOT to say on the subject.

Blessings and best wishes - S.

 

Thanks so much for sending this to me, Sveta. You bet I jumped into this discussion.

We've always been careful to have both names on all accounts so I don't deal with this problem but I've seen what my mother has been through. After my step father died and she tried to call about accounts they would not speak with her. Creditors called the house and asked for him even after being informed that he was deceased and when she attempts to discuss the accounts with them they just ask for him again. It's crazy.

Of course we live in a patriarchy.  Can you say Iraq.

When I was married to a man I made sure my name was on everything, I had kept my own name.

When I was married to women, try that one on for size.

 

 

Ditto, keep your name on EVERYTHING!  This is what made it easier for me to untangle from the last disaster!

Yes......need your name on everything!

I kept my own surname when my husband and I married... The only place so far that won't let me use it is the Veteran's Administration. On my "privilege card", it shows my husband's surname with my first name... I have 2 signature cards on file at our bank (one in each name). I have reasons for wanting to keep my maiden name -- one being that I am published under that name -- several times already -- and another because I still deal in the sale of plants occasionally and my customers know me by my maiden name.

I've spoken with other women who have been through this situation and they have compromised by hyphenating their maiden name with their married name... Seems like a lot of extra writing to me...

Why should a woman hyphenate when the man does nothing? How is that a compromise?

If both hyphenated that would be awsome, and totally equal.

Why would the VA give you crap? I'm sure you have loads of ID.

Walker and I have identification coming out of our ears, all of his in his name and mine in mine. If some organization were to give us trouble, we'd give it right back to them.

We do not live in a society which treats every person as being equal before the law or before custom as being equal.

Married women fare less well on almost every measure of well-being.  They are sick more, they die younger, they are more likely to be depressed, they are more likely to become mentally ill, and they are more likely to be murdered by a man.

If you want to be considered a person in your own right you might consider reading <a href="viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977234427" target="_blank"><b>Invisible Hand</b></a> here on Gather or visiting

www.nopom.info

You will keep in mind, our Declaration of Independence says that all men are created equal...doesn't mention a thing about women.

Yes, Walker and women in the U.S. haven't even had the vote for 100 years yet.

It's not as if I didn't try to get my name on "everything".  But in the computers at my children's school, there is only room to display one name.  I am certainly ON the mortgage, etc, but accessing the information is a hassle.  Computers don't show the full names, they file their information under <B>one</B> name and it's rarely mine.

My husband gave me the gift of a cell phone, but the name that pops up in caller ID is his.  It's really not as simple as getting everything in both names.  

Walker says that if there's only room for one name, he'd prefer it as mine. More men need to think that way, so that they may have a taste of what women have had to put up with for way too long now.

And if someone gave me a cellphone but the name in the call display was NOT MINE, I'd cram it up his arse!! What kind of a gift is that?

Anyone who has given me a gift of anything has put it in my name, husband's gift, husband's name, joint gift BOTH NAMES or we take our business elsewhere.

I'm sure he didn't think about it displaying his name.  That's a rather harsh statement to say you'd cram it up his arse.  I thought my husband's gesture was thoughtful and loving.

It still baffles me that one (in a general context here) might not think about the name displayed, especially in cases where the other, may be extremely passinate about having her own name (could be talking about myself in this situation too LOL). Afterall, how would most men react if their wives gave them something that "constantly broadcasted to the world" a woman's name?

I know of way too many men (the total opposite of the one I married)) who would feel quite threatened if the same cellphone situation happened where the genders were reversed. WAAAAAY TOO MANY.

Your husband's gesture was EXTREMELY loving, thoughtful, kind, and I can tell you picked a guy as wonderful as the one I picked.

One of my coworkers went to buy a car and the salesperson told her to come back with her husband!  Needless to say, she shopped elsewhere.

Happened to Mom and I right after my parents DIVORCED. What, single women aren't allowed to own cars? We also went elsewhere! I wanted to shove a tire-iron up the guy's rear for his idiotic sexist comment to my mother!!!

Featured in the Triple Name Club.

This deserves to be featured everywhere!!!!!!

Thanks for your generous comment, Leah.

Of course this is a patriarchy. That is what my experiences have made very clear during the past X number of years.

If I wear short skirts, I am deemed a... Well, this isn't flagged for language.

If I walk by myself, obviously men have the right to hoot, honk, shout and otherwise act like... idiots.

If I have a female roommate, I am deemed a lesbian.

If I were to have a male roommate, it would be assumed that I was involved with him.

Since I am not married, I get "Miss" a lot. Even if I had my doctorate, I would still get "Miss."

I am seen as a failure by many in my community because I am not married and haven't even had the decency to spawn a few times. Better to be a single mother than childless and single. Without a man clearly in the picture and no children hanging off me, I am suspect.

I have lived in enough areas to know that these attitudes are not merely those of the people in this area. They come in all sorts of packages, and many women enforce it just as much as many men do.

A lot of women totally enable these attitudes, and then look at me like I have two heads, when I defend myself.

 

Yes, all this sounds familiar to those who kept their birth names. Then, add to that relatives who keep addressing mail to "Mr. and Mrs. His Last Name." It's depressing.

A good cure for that is to address their mail to

Ms. & Mr. Herfirst Hermaiden
Their Address, Zip/Postal Code

Works everytime!!!!

I can't see doing this to my husband's aunts who send us Christmas cards or to other family friends who send us announcements.  It seems disrespectful.  I don't think responding to a clumsy oversight with disrespect is the answer.

It is a sticky situation... The address label could hold the information we want to convery, for those of older generations. Our own generation should be able to "get it."

A couple of times is forgiveable, but is it not disrespectful if (and I've heard this happen to others in the same situation) the same people keep up the Mr & Mrs John Doe stuff? As an "expected Mrs. John Doe" in this case, I've had enough of it, altogether. If certain people see fit to put me in a certain position (no matter what the reason) "the same shoes" should fit their feet.

Mind you it's NOT A PROBLEM AT ALL in my family because they know I'm full of chutzpah, and wouldn't put up with it even once! *grin*

Respect is a nice thing, but sadly give some people an inch, and they'll run the whole 9 yard with it.

You know, Alison, it *is* depressing!  The "little" things add up to eventually break the camel's back.  

BREAK THE CAMEL'S BACK! That's what people don't understand. They are little when they happen, but after years of them happening they start to build up. A marble is a very light item, but 1,000 marbles can be quite heavy.

Absolutely!  

I have a whole group dedicated to this topic. If you're not already a member, please post this article to

http://missmrsms.gather.com/

Our address labels read

CHRISTENSEN & BENNETT

While I insisted on both names, Walker insisted that mine go first on everything, since Mr. & Mrs. Walker Bennett would just be assumed. Put my name first, and it'll get noticed.

Phone call WE received the other day.

Hi, Mrs. Bennett?

No, Miss Christensen speaking.

Then I have the wrong number?

Not if you want to talk to Walker Bennett.

You're not his wife?

I didn't say that!!!

*Me calling in the background* Walker, phone for you!

We have labels that say CHRISTENSEN & BENNETT, we have stationery that ways "Leah Christensen & Walker Bennett" (both names would not fit on our address labels, so we just used our last names), and we hold NO JOINT ACCOUNTS.

Stupid UPS tried to pull a fast one on us a few weeks ago. Walker needed to have something delivered by UPS. Since I have been living in this apartment, and have paid for everything (I still pay the rent, and that which Walker pays -utilities etc.- he gives me in cash and I put into my bank for on-line banking) since I moved in here in 2002, and there is VERY VERY LIMITED SPACE on the front directory pannel, it simply says CHRISTENSEN. That's also how I'm still listed in the phone book. Walker has his vonage line in his name, because he wanted to keep his old AZ number.

Anyway, it says CHRISTENSEN 105 (our # is 105).

The UPS guy saw 26 Ourstreet # 105, and because it did not say "Bennett" he did not deliver the package!!! Walker got on the phone and RAGED to UPS, and they assured him that the idiot in question did the wrong thing by assuming, and not ringing the bell to try and deliver the package. Walker was HERE waiting for it!!!! (this was about 2 or 3 weeks ago).

We moved a couple of things around on the directory, and made room for BENNETT, but still. is the world so daft that people can't handle non-matching names?

2 days ago we had a truck load of stuff from UPS addressed to LEAH CHRISTENSEN as well as WALKER BENNETT (I had one package due, he had two) and after the fit we pitched last time, our stuff was delivered ON TIME and with no question.

If anyone ever calls me Mrs. Bennett or they call us Mr. & Mrs. Walker Bennett. Walker will be as eager to whack them with something as I'll be.

How is it fraud that you open mail REGARDING YOUR CHILDREN that may not have your name on it, yet it's not fraud for them to discriminate against one of those children's parents? I say open the mail, and if they take you up on it, I can tell you where to get a cheap lawyer in a hurry.

Right on, Leah!

Thank you Alison.

BTW one more really good reason for me not taking Walker's name?

My middle name is one of his ex-wife's first names, and my first name is very similar to the same ex's middle name.

And I mistyped when I refered to myself as Miss Christensen in the phone call. I meant to type Ms. LOl Ms. Christensen is what I go by. If a man is a Mr. before and after marriage, why should Miss become Mrs?

Just now read your frustration Susan. I can only say, you'd think that in America, in 2009, with the technology available, the changes would be long past. But then, well, you'd think ...  Sorry for your frustration.

Makes you wonder about the small minds who invented this technology, and why they woudln't think of adapting it to changing times.

I don't want to get involved in this as I'm very uninformed about all this. When you read my novels you'll see that I'm pro-feminist.

What I see is that old databases were not designed to cater for seperate  names. That's unfortunate because the new computer systems are based on the old paper systems only much faster. Women can vehemently protest but the wheels of admin turn very slowly.

Is it not possible for a woman to have two names, in the meantime, until the whole mess is sorted out? A real/ original name and a convenient Mrs XXX name to be used only for business purposes. Just asking. Is there a lawyer in the house?

Fred, I know women who have chosen to have two names.  I, personally, would find that diminishing.  I am not a Mrs. Anyone.  I try not to be strident about this issue, I do, but I just can't be so full of confidence that it makes no difference what others call me.  It does make a difference.

My husband points out that some items in our family *are* in my name, but the water/sewage bill and the Culligan water just don't compare to having my name on the Prius and Home equity loan.  Again, it's not my husband's fault, but more a patriarchal mindset of how things have been since forever.

Exactly, Susan. That's why I went off earlier in this thread about the cellphone call display coming up in the husband's name, and what I'd do if my husband ever gave me something LIKE that, even though the gesture itsself is one of the most wonderful and loving things one can do (the gift of the phone, not the appearance of the name). Anyone even suggests I'm a Mrs. Him, and I'll give 'em both barrels.

 

I'm of an older genration and I can tell you that things "have" improved.  There was a time when a woman could not vote.  I still wear my apron but threw away all the high heel shoes.

Marriage isn't oppressive. I absolately love being forever, legally, emotionally, and every which way, connected to my husband. (And we've been married close to three decades now.) It's a wonderful thing to find someone you need to spend the rest of your life with.

I don't even think society is terribly oppressive anymore. Of course, women are still only making $.80 to men's $1.00, and we need two more years of schooling to "catch-up" financially to the same numbers, so we have some work to do.

Still, not marriage. Not society. Old fashion lazy people creating programs and inputting on a relatively new instrument - the computer. Personally, hubby and I get top billing about 50% of the time on stuff we have to pay - mortgage, insurances, utilities, etc. AND, thanks to an old health insurance plan that used our social security numbers as our member ID's, I have the magical information in my head that all those customer service people demand. I can rattle off every intimate detail of his life, including his SS number, and his mother's maiden name. Of course, if they listened well, I'm not really sure I have all needed info. To this day, I'm not sure if his mother's maiden name ended with an "en" or an "a." Viva la lazy people - everyone is too lazy to find out why I slur her maiden name all the time. lol

A few days ago, I wrote Walker a check to cash at the bank, and then buy us something to eat, on the way home. For whatever reason I didn't feel like going out, so he offered to do it.

top lefthand corner of the check read LEAH CHRISTENSEN and in the To field I wrote WALKER BENNETT.

In the memo field I wrote "from your wife. Please pick up something for dinner."

The teller smiled and said "and what are you having for dinner tonight, Mr. Christensen?"

Hubby's a feminist through and through, and absolutely beamed when she called him Mr. Christensen, but we both still had to wonder if the lady behind the counter needed our white canes and CNIB cards more than we did. (CNIB stands for Canadian National Institute for the Blind), as it said as plain as day "Walker Bennett."

It all came out fine, but me, being the observant person I am, I wondered if Walker and I were the only two people in town with two functioning eyes. LOL