During his eight years as vice president, Dick Cheney was rarely seen or heard. Now he can't seem to get in front of a camera or microphone enough. He craves attention. He demands it.
“He doth protest too much, methinks” *
Cheney is on a mission, spreading the gospel of waterboarding, claiming over and over that is not torture. If it is not torture, then why does he have to constantly defend its virtues? Is it because he knows it is torture and blatantly illegal according to our laws and those of the Geneva Conventions? Is it because he endorsed waterboarding as well as other torture techniques and he is trying to protect himself from prosecution? A need to justify the Iraq war? All of the above?
A report from a July 2004 Select Committee on Intelligence suggests that the interrogation was just as centered on a possible Iraq-al-Qaeda link as it was terrorist activity. According to a report by Sam Stien in the “Huffington Post,” some of the first questions asked Khalid Sheikh Mohammed upon his capture and during the time he was waterboarded 183 times were about these connections.
It certainly isn’t to protect former President Bush. Cheney already threw him under the bus on “Face the Nation” Sunday when being interviewed by Bob Schieffer.
SCHIEFFER: How much did President Bush know specifically about the methods that were being used? We know that you--and you have said--that you approved this...
CHENEY: Right.
SCHIEFFER: ... somewhere down the line. Did President Bush know everything you knew?
CHENEY: I certainly, yes, have every reason to believe he knew --he knew a great deal about the program. He basically authorized it. I mean, this was a presidential-level decision. And the decision went to the president. He signed off on it.
With friends like that…..
However, the depth of Cheney’s involvement into ‘enhanced interrogation techniques’ was reveled in a report written in “The Daily Beast” by Robert Windrem, who covered terrorism for NBC.
“Two U.S. intelligence officers confirm that Vice President Cheney’s office suggested waterboarding an Iraqi prisoner, a former intelligence official for Saddam Hussein, who was suspected to have knowledge of a Saddam-al Qaeda connection.
“The former chief of the Iraq Survey Group, Charles Duelfer, in charge of interrogations, tells The Daily Beast that he considered the request reprehensible.”
Then there is Cheney’s proselytizing about information gained by using these techniques as he did here again with Bob Schieffer on “Face the Nation”.
“One of the things that I did six weeks ago was I made a request that two memos that I personally know of, written by the CIA, that lay out the successes of those policies and point out in considerable detail all of --all that we were able to achieve by virtue of those policies, that those memos be released, be made public. The administration has released legal opinions out of the Office of Legal Counsel. They don't have any qualms at all about putting things out that can be used to be critical of the Bush administration policies. But when you've got memos out there that show precisely how much was achieved and how lives were saved as a result of these policies, they won't release those. At least, they haven't yet.”
Yesterday the CIA denied the release of these two memos because they are the subject of pending lawsuits related to the interrogation program and cannot be declassified.
That’s handy for Cheney because he can say that there is evidence of the success of torture, but the CIA won’t release it. And even if the two memos he claims will provide irrefutable proof that torture works, why should we trust only TWO pieces of evidence when one prisoner was waterboarded 183 times in one month to get information. The information they got after two waterboardings apparently wasn’t sufficient.
Time and time again military and intelligence personnel contest that torture is not effective and does not get useful information. Torture gains only false confessions.
As Vice Admiral Lee F. Gunn, U.S. Navy (Ret.) said, “Here are four simple truths about torture for you to consider: It is un-American. It is ineffective. It is unnecessary. And it is damaging.”
Three things come to mind when I hear Cheney drone on and on about that “we didn’t torture” but our “enhanced interrogation techniques” got valuable information.
1) Listening to Cheney drone is torture. If I had to listen to him continually I would confess just about anything to make it stop.
2) He reminds me of Scott Peterson when he was on every T.V. show possible to convince everyone that he was innocent of the murder of his wife and unborn son….right up until the time he was found guilty.
3) The line Tom Cruise says about Jack Nicholson in a “Few Good Men":
“I think he wants to say it. He’s pissed off that he has to hide from this. He made a command decision and that’s the end of it. Shake him up and put him on the defensive and lead him right where he wants to go!”
Jack Nicholson (as Colonel Jessup): I would rather you just thank me and went on your way.
In his twisted mind Dick Cheney thinks he has saved the world and he is dying to get recognition. He wants us to thank him.
* I took literary license with this phrase. The actual quote is “The lady doth protest too much, methinks” – William Shakespeare (Hamlet)
“We don’t need no stinkin’ Stephen King, we’ve got Dick Cheney.”
Cheri Cabot, on Twitter, 5/14/09
Cheri Cabot, Politics Correspondent
Cheri’s column, “Personal About Politics,” published every week, will reflect on how the life of a 59 year-old, middle class woman is affected by politics, policy and the current state of the nation - a look at the personal aspects of politics. Her column is part of Gather Essentials.
Cheri is a freelance writer, living in Southern California. She has two grown children, one in Iowa and one a recent graduate of Columbia University, and is the proud grandmother of two. Cheri is also a purveyor of fine coffee, warm chatter and dry wit.
You can find all of Cheri’s columns on Personal About Politics at www.personalpolitcs.gather.com, The Obama Watch at theobamawatch.gather.com or her home page here, www.ccabot.gather.com.
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Comments: 85
the Nancy Pelosi karfuffle is just a diversion. The GOP is trying to direct the attention from Cheney, but he won't have any of it...he wants the spotlight all to himself...just watch. And even if Pelosi did know anything, and it's doubtful she knew anything of any value, what could she have done? Run to Shrub and tell him Cheney is torturing? Not likely. That smoke and mirrors will blow over, but Cheney will just keep on tooting his own horn until it gets what he wants....recognition, and hopefully it will be in the form of a war trial, or at the very least an investigation.
It has also come out this week that the torture was done by private contractors. Nice. Now we use rendition and hire independent contractors to torture.
The Dems decided to get the Republicans for torture but got caught in the snare themselves!
That said it all!
Besides, Cheney wants the spotlight all for himself. He's not about to share.
I doubt that it is true that Polosi was an accomplice, but if it is true that doesn't exonerate the perpetrators; it just adds someone else to the coterie of perpetrators. Torture is still torture; it doesn't matter who the hell did it.
Actually, I wish he would go on TV even more. He is revealing his true character and harming the Republican Party. Aren't many Republicans now wanting him to shut up?
Leo, I agree. Every time Cheney gets on T.V. he implicates himself more. What a moron. Although in his mind he is a genius. An evil one, however.
Yes Cheri, The Dems are complicit, it appears as though Pelosi was informed and had the opportunity to contest and did not do so.
She claims it wouldn't matter because she had no power of influence, but history shows her influencing executive policy in the past.
In this case the Republicans are playing a better hand of politics.
"The old axion about fooling people all of the time applies here."
Well I don't disagree with you there but as with most all Bush haters you want everyone to focus on how it applies to the Republicans and want to give a pass to the Dems.
The Dems are just as bad as the Republicans.
We DO know what happened to building 7, it was a victim of collateral damage . Only the conspiracy theorists wonder.
its not that complicated. and we the people are collectively responsible. the war was always about corporate greed. we are still not talking about the truth. why the torture? to justify.
Royal Dutch Shell
Halliburton
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BS
you and your phony corporate science. who do you REALLY work for?
I'm not going to clutter up Cheri's post with this trivial crap.
You are welcome to your opinion.
And yes, Kathryn, I would also agree with your verdict.
Oh it's just water, the defenders say. Just like sleep deprivation accompanied by constant bright light and loud sounds and alternation of extreme temperatures aren't a big deal. Just look what it did to Padilla. They drove that guy insane to the point that all he could do at the end of his trial was blather about how the trial wasn't fair to Bush.
And who are these people who were waterboarded? Aren't they people who were only "suspected" and picked up in a foreign country? What gives the American government the authority to do this?
i agree "not even the tip of the iceberg" Obama is not going to push for the truth unless the middle demands it. its a hot potato.
If "enhanced interrogation techniques" are okay (spelled T-O-R-T-U-R-E ), why the witch hunt against Pelosi and other Dems?
DICK (head) CHENEY IS THE FACE OF EVIL in America today and for his entire career in politics.
Now he is simply not afraid to admit that he IS THE DEVIL INCARNATE!
Personally, I am still waiting for that P*ssy Hannity to come forward and undergo his voluntary Waterboarding which he agreed to ON AIR LAST MONTH!!
What's the matter little Sean?
Peed your pants when someone called your f'ing bluff?
Typical Fixed Noise B.S.!!!!
Excellent reporting as usual Cheri.
Keep telling it like it is.
Steele/Palin in 2012!!!
LOLOLOL!!!!
It's Obama allowing the CIA to release these memos to reign in Pelosi's power.
someone, and walk away without consequences each and every time.
Isn't life GRAND for the OLD rich white PARTY families!!!
Yes indeedy do (deep doo-doo)!
Dems drown their victims I seem to recall. Has anyone in the GOP done anything similar and gotten reeelected for life?
LOL!
The Dem's thought they had the trump card but the Republicans turned the table on them!
You want some cheese with that whine Lisa?
If you weren’t so disingenuous you would admit that the Dems who knew are as responsible as anyone else.
How refreshing.
bush/cheney to prison 2009
Keep running your mouth dick and the let's look forward Democrats will have to investigate then all involved should go to prison Democrat or repugniCONs.
A must read: The Dark Side. The Inside Story of How the War on Terror Turned into a War on American Ideals.
Honest, scary, chilling, disgusting...it will make you very angry and sad, but we need to know as a country, what Bush & Cheney did in our name. If we don't accept the truth, and do something about it, we cannot regain respect in the world community.
Gradually, it will all come out...warts and all. It's time, so we can begin to heal.
I'm no fan of Pelosi or Cheney, but I don't quite see why they're being blamed. Are they going to be in charge of CIA and NSA policies and tactics?
We can't afford to let the inmates run the asylum. Viet Nam was fought in congress and tens of thousands of young men died because congress was directing the war from DC.
Again, Jan, you need to read what is coming out...Jim Resin has recently written extensively about the Red Cross Report, as has Jane Mayer. The International Red Cross gave a particularly damning report.
You are correct. Torture is not new. However, it is in our U.S. Law that it is illegal and we helped write and signed the Geneva Conventions that ban torture. It is against the law to torture. Pure and simple. It must be stopped and prosecuted.
It has been stopped....now it must be prosecuted...and not at the lower levels....at the highest level where it was commanded to do so.
Renedition and dark or ghost sites must also be stopped.
And Nancy Pelosi needs to shut up about anything and everything.
Maybe Cheney is feeling (?) so guilty that he is running his mouth just to drum up enough evidence to convict himself and the rest of the gang - but I doubt it.
The reason it would have been political suicide is because the majority of the American people didn't care about detainees being tortured. And they still don't. It is up to those of us that do to try to exert as much pressure as possible to help the truth come out.
And why is the truth important? Let's hear more about this and less name calling about your favorite political enemy.
Whether or not it may have appeared at the time as political suicide, they too should have had the Balls to Stand Up and Speak Out!
That being said, the 'men' (I hasten to use that word when speaking about 'animals') like Shrub/Dickie/Rumsfeld and their talking puppets at the D.O.J. need to be investigated and their actions brought out into the light of day.
Just because the masses were screaming for the heads of any human wearing Muslim Garb after 9/11 does not mean that We The People with Half a Brain and some Moral Fortitude can look the other way every time an Administration or Powerful group of Congressmen start hacking away at our Bill of Rights or the Constitution.
i totally agree with your point.. we have a lot more under the hood then what is seen.
"alternative interrogation techniques" were just a means to an end. To get a list of fake confessions in order to justify other crimes and misdemeanors.
to further establish and entrench networks of taxpayer funded privateers.
we have heard about Halliburton"s subsidiaries like K.B.R, but who did they contract to?
and Who is DynCorp International? Corporate Warriors: The Rise of the Privatized Military Industryby P.W. Singer
I say take all three down and put a gag order on Rush Limbaugh.
By the way, for those of you who aren't familiar with me here on Gather, I'm a Republican. However I'm not of the sorts who still blindly defend The Three Amigos and who still think that Sarah Palin is the Second Coming of Christ and Joe the Plumber is actually God.
hmmm
Sorry Don I missed your post,
When did I defend them? I just think you BDL's should be a bit less hypocritical in your criticizems of politicians.
Let's let the information come out as to what exactly was uncovered by water boarding.
I agree with Joyce, just make sure that the Democrats who knew it was going on are brought up on charges as being complicit.
BTW there has been more reporters water boarded at this time than terrorists.
www.rickhyatt.freeservers.com The photos prove it!
But you keep on defending until your heroes bush/cheney are in prison, no problem.
Is anyone arguing that it isn't?
If your having such a hard time reading the posts it is you who's intelligent level might not add up to the moronic level.
I say if the right tries to blame Pelosi, let her swing with them but they have to swing too!!!!!
With recent political history of former administration heads commenting and giving public advice why is Cheney singled out for criticism? Ahh yes, he's not a Dem and thus is not entitled equal treatment as such.
Convicted in the media already and especially in such "non-partisan" sites like here, Cheney would be a damn fool to sit back and hope for a fair or even handed portrayal.
I would agree with your last sentence but would add that I believe Cheney is not doing himself any favors. Just as a child molester is considered more guilty the more he protests his innocence, Cheney is pushing things the wrong way for him when to shut up and let things cool would be more beneficial. He's keeping it in the public mind that wrong has been done and no one has answered for it.
Actually Cheney is doing himself a favor by fighting back. Right or wrong, letting your accuser shape the fight is half the battle lost.
Does anyone honestly think that far worse hasn't been done under other US presidents and that Obama is likely to have covered his butt by doing the wink wink nudge nudge route with the CIA/Mil intel guys since he came into office? Can you imagine the outcry if something happens and they weren't doing what is now considered dirty? Obama is playing CYA as every other president has done in similar situations for decades.
If Cheney honestly believes waterboarding isn't torture, I want to see him put his money where his mouth is; and undergo it himself- let him actually prove what he is saying.
I agree, Ellen. I'd like to see that on YouTube.
LOL, too bad there's not anywhere to write the former vice president now; sure that a letter writing campaign could be started and gain a lot of attention with the media
How about a Pay-Per-View of Cheney waterboarded. After all, it's not torture, right Dick? Cheney could keep the proceeds or give them to the RNC. I'd be willing to pay, say... $150.00 to see that!
LOL... instead of pay per view, it could be a fund raiser. People who wanted to; could donate however much they wanted for each second cheney could stand waterboarding. The proceeds could be donated to help veterans and their families, like sean hanniy said he would do.
I don't think we can remind the torture supporters enough that the United States prosecuted and executed the Japanese for waterboarding Americans during WWII. If it wasn't ok for the Japanese to do it to Americans during war, it's not ok.
I think it is ridiculous that Americans are upset of torturing a handful of terrorist. How much pain and misery do you think those men and women in the World Trade Center and the Pentagon endured before they were murdered? I think if anything we should have went farther than waterboarding. I say attach electrodes to their genitals, pump them up with drugs and lets see what we can get some information out of those bastards. Were going to lose the war on terrorism because we are not willing to be as vicious as our enemies.
I see this conversation has come to at least a temporary end. Too bad that Josh got the last word. Josh, when you say to torture more, how do you know the people you are torturing are terrorists? Also, there is the point that we wish to have higher values than those who would torture or harm us. Also, see the arguments that point out that information gained from torture is usually not valuable or could be obtained without torture. This is just a start in countering what I think is very aggression and destructive reasoning on your part.
Bruce, ethical questions are undeniably presented when a nation is forced to consider implimenting torture against enemy combatants who are participating in an assymetrical conflict. If you look at the problem philosophicaly the implimentation of torture which entails using physical or psychological harm against another human being to obtain valuable information is an undeniable evil. However, when you consider that these irregular fighters (Al-Qaeda operatives) are not engaging in conventional terrorist attacks (i.e. car bombs or assassination) but instead seek to conduct operations of mega-terrorism (i.e. Flying commercial jets into buildings or utilizing nuclear, chemical, or biological material against an unsuspecting civilian population) the use of torture can be morally justified by utilitarian arguments. The Implimentation of a relatively small evil against a few individuals potentialy produces a greater good of protecting both you and me as we go about or day to day lives by potentially producing information that could prevent a future terrorist attack. If we have detainees in our custody both in the United States and abroad that potentialy possess information about such an attach the government has an ethical responsibility no matter what national or international law says to prevent the catastrophic loss of human life and private property. Doing so produces a greater good than the evil intentionaly perpetrated to produce that good. Thus torture, at least theoreticaly is ethicaly justifiable.
In my humble opinion waterboarding is "pussified", what happen to the glory days of the CIA and the MK-ULTRA program? Surely we have better methods of obtaining information from terrorist suspects than simulated drowning.
Hi Josh, thanks for your reply. You explained your point well and I thank you for that. Please excuse the briefness of my response here. I am sure we will both have occasion to continue this discussion other times and other places with many others.
My concern is that by justifying the means for the end, we will ourselves become just what we are fighting against. Our goal should be to fight for freedom and justice. I feel that by engaging in torture we are becoming less free and less just. We begin to see these behaviors as acceptable.
I am not a big fan of Star Wars, but wasn't that an example of giving in "to the dark side" by using their ways of conflict?
We have actually increased the number of our enemies by mistreating some of them. This is ultimately a failed way of dealing with our adversary, not only in my opinion, but in many others including many military and intelligent agency folks.
You have a good rebuttal. I don't want to have the last word, but I think we're going to have to respectfully disagree on this issue. My only concern is that if the United States does not torture it intentionally sets itself up for the catastrophic consequences of another future terrorist attack. You are right, our goal should be to fight for freedom and justice. But freedom and justice do not come cheeply, on the contrary, they are only won after substantial sacrifices have been made and a significant effort has been exerted by the various appendages of the state and the American people.
Torture is undeniably cruel, but if it is implimented properly on idividuals we know might have information that can be used to save thousands of lives and millions or billions of dollars in private property it should not be left off of the table. Furthermore, the United States should not overtly use torture against terrorist suspects since this would be a violation of international and national law. If the U.S. engages in torture it must do the following:
(1) Impliment torture outside of the jurisdiction of the U.S. in a covert "black site" (I am not making this up the Central Intelligence Agency has two "black sites" in Afghanistan that the public knows about). "Black sites" are by definition installations operated by the military or the CIA that do not exist on any official list or records created by the federal government. Consequently U.S. and international law can not apply to locations that do not officially exist. Torturing terrorist suspects in these locations eliminates the threat of leaks to the international media and incriminating evidence that could lower our national prestige.
(2) Only those suspects believed to have significant knowledge about a future terrorist attack should be exposed to "enhanced interrogation" techniques. Medical staff should ideally be present at all times to minimize the risk of death or adverse long time physical or psychological harm to the suspect.
In conclusion, it is ironic that good things are routinely accomplished by impure means and measures. The United States has the ability to effectively combat Islamic exstremism but this can not be accomplished without adequate information. We now know that many other liberal democracy's have used torture against enemies that are now held in ill-repute by history (i.e. Winston Churchill used torture against Nazi spys and captured German P.O.Ws - This was more illegal than our torture program because it violated the Geneva Convention on War Crimes), The United Kingdom routinely used torture against captured members of the Irish Republican Army, The U.S. directly and through proxy used torture on an un-precedented scale against Marxist-Leninist who wished to overthrow pro-capitalist, pro-Western regimes around the world during the Cold War era.
Last comment, terrorist want give you their information from therapy, sometimes you have to have to do bad things to do something really good in the world.