Retired Episcopal Bishop John Shelby Spong received a letter from a reader of his newsletter who asked the following question. His response is below. I have to say that his response very much reflects my views on this question. What are your thoughts? THE QUESTION-- I have read much of your work and met you once at Stetson University in Deland, Florida, at a pastor's conference. It was the same venue where I also met Marcus Borg. I am a retired civil trial lawyer and a late-life seminary graduate, now an ordained Disciples of Christ minister, although before seminary I was a lifelong Presbyterian (USA) from the same time frame and section of North Carolina as you. My question, which gives me a great deal of trouble, is: What is your basic understanding of petitionary prayer? I believe you have said, "A God who would save the life of one prayed-for cancer-stricken child and not another would be a monster." This makes sense but gives me a great deal of trouble in considering petitionary prayer. (I have read Honest Prayer - I find no answer to this problem there). |
RESPONSE FROM SPONG-- Thank you for your comments and for your question. Your question on petitionary prayer is almost always the first question that comes up wherever I go to lecture. People can talk about their understanding of God until the cows come home, but nothing really changes until they translate their understanding of God into their prayers. More than anything else, our prayers define our understanding of God. So to talk about prayer, we have to define who the God is to whom we pray. To say it differently, "Who do we think is listening?" Most people, quite unconsciously, approach the subject of prayer with a very traditional concept of God quite operative in their minds. This God is a personal being, endowed with supernatural power, who lives somewhere outside this world, usually conceptualized as "above the sky." While that definition has had a long history among human beings, it is a definition of God that has been rendered meaningless by the advance of human knowledge. This means that for most of us the activity of prayer does not take seriously the fact that we live in a vast universe, and that we have not yet come to grips with the fact that there is no supernatural, parental deity above the sky, keeping the divine record books on human behavior up to date and ready at any moment to intervene in human history to answer prayers. When we do embrace this fact then prayer, as normally understood, becomes an increasingly impossible idea and inevitably a declining practice. To get people to embrace this point clearly, I have suggested that the popular prayers of most people is little more than adult letters written to a Santa Claus God. There are then two choices. One says that the God in whom I always believed is no more, so I will become an atheist. People make this decision daily. It is an easy way out. The other says that the way I have always thought of God has become inoperative, so there must be something wrong with my definition. This stance serves to plunge us deeply into a new way of thinking about God, and that is when prayer itself begins to be redefined. Can God, for example, be conceived of not as supernatural person, but as a force present in me and flowing through me? Then perhaps prayer can be transformed into meditation and petitionary prayer becomes a call to action. The spiritual life is then transformed from the activity of a child seeking the approval of a supernatural being to being a simultaneous journey into self-discovery and into the mystery of God. It also feeds my sense of growing into oneness with the source of all life and love and with what my mentor, Paul Tillich, called the Ground of All Being. It would take a book to fill in the blank places in this quick analysis, but these are the things that today feed my ever deepening discovery of the meaning of prayer. - John Shelby Spong |
|
by
Carla G.
Member since:
September 19, 2006 Petitioning Prayer and God as Santa Claus
May 14, 2009 12:55 PM EDT
views: 118
|
rating: 7/10
(12 votes)
|
comments: 31
Please provide details below to help Gather review this content. If it is found to be inappropriate and in violation of the Gather Terms of Service, action will be taken.
You have successfully submitted a report for this post.
|
|
More by Carla G. |
|||||||
About Gather |
Engagement Marketing |
Make New Friends |
Gather Points |
Advertise on Gather |
Gather Press |
Privacy |
Terms of Service |
Community Guidelines
Books | Celebs | Entertainment | Family | Food | Health | Moms | Money | News | Politics | Spirituality | Sports | Travel | Writing
Books | Celebs | Entertainment | Family | Food | Health | Moms | Money | News | Politics | Spirituality | Sports | Travel | Writing
Version 16836, "Oz"; Copyright © 2009 Gather Inc. All rights reserved.


Comments: 31
I believe the best prayer is one that asks God for the humility and strength to accept His will. Acceptance takes a lot of personal work. Humility is a wonderful virtue, but very hard to learn.
This is one of the issues I had with belief and organized religion. Too much passive muttering, not enough doing and acting. I was raised Catholic, where my parents had masses and novenas offered up for something, for a fee to the church. Even when I believed there was a god, this struck me as barbaric and ignorant.
One of the most powerful teachings of Jesus (and I believe it is in the cast-away writing of Thomas) is the claim that Jesus instructed his followers not to look outside themselves for god, that the divine is in each rock of the earth and in ourselves. Based on that, to honor the environment, to honor every living creature, and to realize that our own power and spirituality is, in fact, 'god' is what we should strive for.
I so often so that 'let go, let God' bumper sticker. I think if we truly believe in a powerful spirit force in the world, we will accept that we are all part of it, not outside it, and with that comes the responsibility to not only reflect, but to summon our force and strength individually towards action. To end our responsibility at a supplication, hoping and wishing instead of doing, is fruitless and unproductive at best, irresponsible and destructive at worst.
This has been instructive to me, as I do find I let petitionary prayer creep into my time of praying, and resultantly disappointment if those prayers are not "answered".
Normally I pray for strength to endure what I must and to try and love all living creatures and particularly all people.
I also pray a lot of gratitude to God for the world He has created, for the life He has given me in it, for the bounty which I enjoy in His world.
Certainly I do believe that God is within us, within all things, and that He does not play favourites and grant advantages and special dispensations because we plead to him for benevolence. That would reduce Him to merely a politician.
The universe works as it does because it must.
That is a good one, Rory. :-)
Hugs and blessings - S.
Thanks for posting this beautiful essay on what's wrong with the idea of a personal god and conventional form of prayer.
Is it not these supernatural events, healings and miracles, that confirm the divinity of Christ for most believers? The suggestion that everyone, anyone or even one are capable of "even greater things" undermines that divine status and levels the playing field a bit.
I had lunch with a young woman trying hard to convert me. Her "little talk" had the exact opposite effect on me, especially when she said she thought that "donating time or money to a charity isn't as helpful as praying for people."
Yeah, and it's easier and you don't have to do anything.
We can group heartmind pray, we can single heartmind pray.....
We, the HeartMind, are prayer.
Mr. Spong , he still calls himself a Christian and still claims to believe in God.
However, when you read Why Christianity Must Change or Die and A New Christianity For A New World, he really is an atheist.
He doesn't believe God is a supernatural or transcendental being. He doesn't believe in a personal God. He rejects theism. He calls himself a nontheist. However, he says nontheism is not atheism.
http://www.celebatheists.com/?title=John_Shelby_Spong
Hello Everyone, just checking by ) /hugs You guys are lucky ) I have not had time to be on Gather .
Scott, you might also want to read "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism". You have a warped view of Spong. He believes in a transcendent God and a personal God. It's obvious that you haven't read his books but are taking your information from a site that sees anything other than Christian fundamentalism as atheist and which feels very threatened by Spong's non-literalist approach to the Bible.
The fact is that most of the major schools of theology and the divinity schools do not take everything in the Bible literally. And it was only in the last 200 years that some religious denominations began to take the Bible literally. Prior to that, it was accepted that the Bible was partly historical but also was filled with symbolism, myth, parables and allegory.