When I was a young Roman Catholic altar boy, I had many questions. The Roman Catholics continue to believe that their church is the "true" church because of apostolic succession beginning with Peter. I was to learn later that the account of Peter and the church was written four centuries later. As you so eloquently bring to light, the New Testament is the concoction of mortal men who had never once experienced any form of spirituality with Jesus. In fact, they were much older and didn't even know Jesus. So, all that I was taught in the Roman Catholic Church is a lie. The lie is so well packaged that most Roman Catholics can't see it. A thorough reading of the history of the New Testament reveals the truth. I learned these things in college. When I was around thirteen, I couldn't avoid this nagging feeling that the religion wasn't taking for me. I prayed (or did something that seemed prayerful) often and finally had to admit that all of my thoughts were merely wishful thinking based on information that couldn't be verified or proven. Then, I innocently mentioned during confession that I had my doubts. The priest knew me behind the screen and ranted for about fifteen minutes about matters regarding the Holy Name Society (a group of men in the church dedicated to helping converts to the church among other things). It turned out that there was some dissension within the ranks about the actions of this priest. He used my confession as an opportunity to vent his own misgivings about some of the members of the church. This experience was what I came to see as the beginning of the end. The Roman Catholic Church deserves the criticism it gets. It is vindictive and mean-spirited. I wouldn't attend any services on purpose. I have attended weddings and funerals in the church. But, I don't consider myself a Roman Catholic, today. As I grew older and learned of the notion that homosexuals are "objectively disordered," I had to face facts and leave the church. It was sad, because to this day, some of the nicest people I've ever known were the Roman Catholics of my childhood. Indeed, there were some wonderful nuns (the Sisters of Mercy) in my education who went above and beyond to help me with my studies.
I am committed to honesty in my life, today. I'm afraid that the lies of the Roman Catholic Church go against that important moral ethic that I chose for myself. This serves as a stark reminder that the truth does indeed set a person free. To live mired in lies creates an uncomfortable desperation that seems to permeate many Jesus based religions, I'm afraid.
There is a brewing controversy in the city of Chicago based on Cardinal George's statement that President Obama's commencement speech at Notre Dame University will be an "embarrassment" to Roman Catholics. Evidently, he believes that President Obama's pro-choice views should prevent him from speaking at the learning institution. Of course, at my commencement, we were treated to Gwendolyn Brooks who repeatedly expressed that masturbation was good for young adults. The Roman Catholic university that I attended had no problem with her. And, the times were different. There was more respect for people of other faiths at the time. Cardinal George is revealing an ignorance that is not befitting of such an educated man regardless of his religious persuasion.
(This article is a comment I made on another article pertaining to religion and truth/fact. Thanks for indulging my remarks. I look forward to any comments that you may have to share.)
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Comments: 27
There is a heresy that creeps in the church from time to time; a notion that priests are somehow sinless because they are a priest or that they are somehow less of a priest because they are sinners. Yet priest and layman alike are all sinners and we all do the wrong thing from time to time.
Judging from your comments “the lies of the Roman Catholic Church,” etc. it seems that there is probably little I can say or write to persuade you otherwise but that is not the Church I see around me day in and day out. Perhaps one day you too can see that Church that I see.
It wasn't me that was broken.
I think Notre Dame did the right thing to invite the president and I think many are missing the opportunity to hear a fine man speak.
Yes, it is a shame that there are people who think that they can't listen to such an intelligent man, who happens to be our president. President Obama brings so much more to the table than what we have seen in the past thirty years. It is an exciting time to be an American. Only a fool quibbles over silly issues such as the ones that the Cardinal raises. Abortion is legal for a reason. We had plenty of experience in this nation with illegal abortion. If these pro-lifers were serious, they would be out there demanding comprehensive sex education of our teenagers and young adults. The hugest lie promoted by the pro-life movement is that morality can be legislated or commanded on high. It cannot. It must be cultivated. Moral judgments only serve to justify the ego minded righteousness that creates criminal and immoral behavior in the first place. Information promotes sound and healthy choices. In countries where there is comprehensive sexual education coupled with effective birth control, there is less teenage pregnancy and less abortion. That is the only way to tackle the issue. Demanding that our lawmakers acquiesce when our history teaches us different is not only ignorant, it is dangerous.
"Thank you, everyone for your comments. I'm sorry if pointing out the obvious fact that the writers of the New Testament couldn't possibly be quoting Jesus disturbs you."
You haven't got any possible way to know that is a fact, so anyone that actually accepts it as such, is a bigger fool than you ; )
It doesn't disturbs me in the very least, dear Joe, for this is true. For the offenders like John Knight, there is a strict set of criteria which allows the scholars to determine with more or less certainty which of Jesus' sayings actually belong to him and which are not - for example, the famous passage from John 3:7 about being "born again", the one fundies are so eager to quote, simply couldn't come from Jesus himself because it involves the play of words possible only in Greek - while, as we all know, both Jesus and Nicodemus were Jews and therefore spoke Aramaic. Different passages require different criteria and different approaches, but I think everybody got the idea.
Blessings - S.
No matter which path people have chosen, they will be judged by others on their choice. Then, there they are again, having to decide whose opinion they will value and whose they will ignore. It seems like is just a long series of choices, doesn't it?
I have to say that my article is not intended to question the beliefs of others. This article is written to describe my experience as a young Roman Catholic child. And, I have to be honest and explain the lies of the church in order to describe my experience. Whether you accept my perspective or not, I ask for respect for my right to practice religion as I see fit. I am an American first. I respect your rights - you should respect mine.
Actually, I have found analytic psychology to be a much more viable path into deep spirituality than "church" religion. Analytic psychology is based on scientific observation, and so its foundation is more along the lines of "evidence", instead of "faith".
If interested, I would recommend the writing of C. G. Jung, M. L. von Franz, and Esther Harding.
The use of Greek is not an indication that the words of Jesus in the Bible were not his own, as Greek was a common language in Judea at the time, due to the Roman influence and trade routes, and cities where it was used, one less than five miles from where Jesus is supposed to have lived, and therefor, it is quite likely that he was familiar, and used (several times in the Bible he was supposed to have addressed Greek speakers) Greek. The large passage of time between Jesus living (of which there is no historical proof), if he did, and the writing down of those words, by people that could not have known him, likely is.
"Joe,
"Thank you, everyone for your comments. I'm sorry if pointing out the obvious fact that the writers of the New Testament couldn't possibly be quoting Jesus disturbs you."
You haven't got any possible way to know that is a fact, so anyone that actually accepts it as such, is a bigger fool than you ; )"
And you, as we have to point out, time and again, have no way of knowing it isn't a fact. In truth, it is very likely, from what we know about the historical record, so the same applies to you and yours, maybe more.
Sure they did, Joe . . . in your dreams.
Ever read William James', Varieties of Religious Experience?
There is an alternative path to spirituality via depth psychology. John mentions "dreams" - actually, there is something to that. And actually, paying attention to one's dreams can be one of those modes of "religious experience" James talks about.
Here is an excellent article on Jung's archetypal dreams or "big dreams".
I had one such dream many years ago, which was pertinent to how I view "religion" presently. My father was Jewish. My mother was Catholic. I was raised Catholic. In this dream, though, I am in a garden, and there are two large trees there. They have branched into each other as trees, growing close together will do. As I look up, I see a small twig, which becomes a talon of a great bird. Next, I am the bird, and I feel myself lift up on huge wings. As I rise above the two trees, I see that I am flying above a huge forest, with thousands of trees, whose canopy stretches as far as the eye can see.
I won't bore you with the specifics of the interpretation, which was immediately apparent to me. But suffice it to say that it led me to see that every person is a "religion". That understanding can be reached through traditional "religions", but often is suppressed by those religions, in favor of dogmas and creeds, institutions and authorities.
Anyway, these are my thoughts on the subject.
I think that dreams are our way of working out our life. They have significance. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Steve.
John,
You have to look at the web sites on Roman Catholic teachings. They are very clear as to what they believe Jesus said or did not say. In actuality, Jesus said nothing about homosexuals, for example. Yet, there are idiots out there who persist with biblical interpretations that do nothing but serve their very 21st century notions of the way things ought to be. One of the tenets of the Roman Catholic church that you might appreciate is that the Bible is not meant to be taken literally. Roman Catholics allow for contemporary thought. They are a little slow to embrace it (see: Galileo apology), but they don't ever suggest that their flock obey the same ideals that were obeyed 2,009 years ago.
If there was a Jesus at the approximate time and place (Palestine during the reign of King Herod), it is not at all implausible that he spoke Greek.
Also, though written generations after the purported life of Jesus, oral cultures have passed on longer and more complicated texts than, say, the Sermon on the Mount, so "lie" may be too strong a term, though precision in oral transmission is far from perfect.
Far more noxious than what is in the Gospels is the overlay by Church Fathers, popes, and evengelical Christianists without textual warrants in the Gospels. For instance, what did Jesus say about homosexuality (the short answer is "nothing"; I've posted the longer answer at www.epinions.com/book-review-7736-115982D5-39C6785D-prod3.
Anyway, finally the day came when John Cardinal O'Connor proclaimed that Catholic politicians who expressed pro-choice support risked ex-communication. I immediately thought, "You can't fire me, I quit!" I called the nearest Archbishop and said I'm not "lapsed" or "fallen away" I "never was" and I want out. He was very polite and said he wished there was a way he could reach out, but I'd obviously given this a lot of thought. He told me to call the church where I was baptized and tell them of my wish, that they'd put a mark on my baptismal record, and that I'd no longer be a Catholic. I don't know if they have a little rubber stamp of a devil, or a '666', but I'm no longer any kind of Catholic.
I can't tell you how liberating that felt.
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!! Thanks for sharing your experience, Guy. There are quite a few of us who agree with you and have had similar experiences. I think that what makes your experience unique is that you actually bothered to officially leave the church. Congratulations on your liberation and best of luck in all that you do throughout your life.