"Incredible Creatures That Defy Evolution" - A Documentary About the American Family Association ?

*Sigh* I'd laugh it weren't so darned sad.

" I'd laugh it weren't so darned sad."

Wilmon has been forced to rely on very meager gains in the last decade. His days of forcing studios or advertisers to change course have ended.

Last year, Wilmon loudly trumpeted his success in "forcing" Ford to stop trying to sell automobiles to Gay folks.

Ford promised to do so, then promptly resumed advertising in other publications for the gay and lesbian community.

Everyone has discovered that you can ignore the AFA.

" I'd laugh it weren't so darned sad."

It's not "sad," it's dangerous. Enough of these nutballs are around to get REALLY stupid educational policies adopted in Texas, and those textbooks wind up EVERYwhere. With that sort of "science" education, our kids are at real risk of losing a scientific education entirely.

"It's not "sad," it's dangerous. Enough of these nutballs are around to get REALLY stupid educational policies adopted in Texas..."

You're right, Chuck L.

The level of scientific understanding in the US is among the lowest in the first world.

Suggested donation $60 surely they jest.

Cubans have a better educational system than we do. So based on that, if Communism is bad what does that make us?

That would be because we confuse science with religion. People misunderstand, either deliberatley or not, the scientific term "theory" and decide that it means, "maybe".

- "How does a giraffe get a drink without causing lethal blood pressure to his brain?"

That sort of thing is screaming for a satire...

Peter, at least you can find a laugh in this. I'm reading another history text lately in which the author describes how Sputnik woke America up to how far behind our students were in math and science.

We could solve two problems at once by tossing AFA on one of them thar "theory"-based rockets and create inspiration once again...

I'm familiar with AFA and I stay away from them because of their extremism. If we followed them we would be living in a theocratic nation where "their form of Chrisitianity' is the law of the land. The AFA seems to be a war with mainstream society and gays in paticular. They only promote intolerance in my opinion. I also feel that AFA is dangerous because people usually talk before the act, groups like this fan flames and odds are some gay(s) will end up discriminated all the more against, hurt or even dead.

"and the blurbs make reference to small-brained creatures who miraculously develop the ability to use tools and walk upright.

Is this a documentary about the American Family Association?"

That would make them a separate species form homo sapiens.
I guess that acts as a counterexample to evolution--they are devolving.

Chris,

It's that kind of thinking that leads to racism, eugenics and the holucaust. But that's what we can expect from a faith in evolution.
______________________________________

The teaching of evolution (as fact for the past how many years now?) is one of the reasons why the US is falling behind in science. The elite evolutionists don't want freedom of inquiry. They are willing to protect their faith in evolution at all costs.

I'm not surprised that Wildmon is sending out stuff like this. He's feeling left out these days, what with James Dobson and his family enterprise having risen to the top of the religious right pecking order.

Peter, you and Sandy obviously have stronger stomachs than I; my gorge rises at the thought of these people having any kind of say in education or public policy.

Thanks for informing. These groups do much harm.

Chuck, reason prevailed in Texas a couple of weeks ago. Pure science will be taught without creationists' challenges. It's fun that they keep changing the name of what they want in textbooks, trying to sneak it in.

Associations need money or donations etc. etc. to function. If folks didn't think some one was trying to take away their "right" to own a machine gun or rocket launcher, they wouldn't give money to the NRA, which would then give 20 mill to politicians to protect those rights. Fear is needed to make folks think they are losing something. The AFA has about as much to do with families as Dobson's Focus on the Family. It's just a catchier name than homophobes united to discriminate against something that has to be a sin and needs to be judged by the pseudo pious.

Lee C. said: "The teaching of evolution (as fact for the past how many years now?) is one of the reasons why the US is falling behind in science."

Can you tell us what are the countries that are ahead of the US in science and do not teach evolution?

Good stuff Peter. Thanks, I was concerned that free thinking was dead on gather, in the wake of the climate change denial rants and second amendment defender rants of the past week.
I assume that the AFA people would be quick to accuse you of being "closed-minded", an egregious example of the pot calling the kettle black, when the kettle is in fact white.

Aniko,

I don't know of ANY countries that do NOT teach evolution.
However, Sweden tested highest in science at the grade twelve level (http://4brevard.com/choice/international-test-scores.htm) and evolutionist are concerned they are not being taught ENOUGH darwinism especially in all the many private religious schools. There is a great deal more freedom for teachers in Sweden than in the US when it comes to curriculum. The teaching of intelligent design and creationism continues to gain ground. Evolutionists want to step in and have the government control what is being taught. Seems if Sweden tested the hightest in science that would be acceptable. But not for those religious evolutionists who want to force their faith on everyone else.
http://www.scienceinschool.org/2008/issue10/perkornhall

Your ridiculous comment, Lee, obscures the fact that Sweden has banned the teaching of creationism in all schools that receive government funding - including religious schools.

It seems that the Swedes hope to protect their lead in scientific literacy.

The "ridiculous" comment of mine relates to your repetition of the lame sophistry that Evolution is a "theory" that has scientific rivals.

That is dishonest and risable.

There is no competing theory that can "make sense" of biological, geological, astronomical data except evolution.

There is NO EVIDENCE for a scientific theory of Creationism. The only "evidence" is nit-picking about phenomena that cannot be fully explained at this time. That is quite different than offering a competing theory.

As a Christian, I believe that there is manifold evidence that the world was created and is maintained by the Word of God - but this is not a method of perceiving and understanding the world that should be taught in science classes.

I forgot the link about the laudable efforts of the Swedes to protect education from fundamentalists.


http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/240844

Lee, you've got it backwards; creationism/intelligent design/whatever-they're-calling-it-this-week is steadily losing ground. The Texas legislature came to their senses and defeated the bill aimed at forcing science teachers to repeat that nonsense in their classes. And so far here in the US whenever a legislature has passed a law or a school board has tried to enforce an ordinance requiring the teaching of creationism in biology and geology classes, the courts have struck it down. Your team is losing, and this is just your pitiful, pathetic attempt to keep your head firmly buried in the sand.

Lee answered: "I don't know of ANY countries that do NOT teach evolution."

Then how could the fact that the US teaches evolution be a cause of its "falling behind" in science?

I'm well aware that a number of Asian and European countries do better in science than the US (though compared to most of the world, the US doesn't actually do that terribly). I'm also aware, of course, that most of those higher-scoring countries are either not Christian at all, or not particularly religious, and there are relatively few creationists in them compared to the US.

(Sweden happens to have the highest percentage of people who respond "no" to the question whether they believe in God. I don't think this has much to do with their high science scores--though the kind of society in which people feel comfortable admitting their lack of faith might. But I must confess I find this fact deliciously ironic when responding to arguments by critics of the secularism of American public schools who bring up international comparisons of math and science scores.)

Just because a country teaches evolution does not mean they don't also teach creationism. Which is obvious in Sweden where creationism is growing despite government control of public schools and those PRIVATE schools FUNDED by the government.

Aniko:"But I must confess I find this fact deliciously ironic when responding to arguments by critics of the secularism of American public schools who bring up international comparisons of math and science scores.)"

Aniko are you criticizing Peter for stating:"The level of scientific understanding in the US is among the lowest in the first world." I only brought Sweden's test socres up because of the growing accpetance among PRIVATELY FUNDED schools and parents.

Peter: "As a Christian, I believe that there is manifold evidence that the world was created and is maintained by the Word of God - but this is not a method of perceiving and understanding the world that should be taught in science classes. "

If you really believe the world was created by the word of God, then why don't you believe the Genesis acount? Why do you believe man's finite understanding of the sciences trumps the Word of God?

Also, please explain to me what proceses took place to make nothing into inorganic molecules then change them into a living human. There are no observable processes that can make this possible.

I think we confuse science and religion and history and fact with opinion. I do believe the Genesis account - both of them despite their apparent contradictions - and I find the scientific evidence for Genesis and evolution overwhelming. But that last statement is opinion.

Lee, the vast majority of Swedish students attend public schools where no creationism is taught. A majority of those who attend "free schools" are also not taught creationism. A very small number of Swedish students are exposed to creationism. Creationism does not come on the tests we're talking about. If after all of this you're going to claim that it's creationism that makes Swedish students stronger in science, you're going to have to show me some data that it's the small number of students attending Christian fundamentalist and Muslim schools that are making the difference.

(You can stop capitalizing PRIVATE and FUNDED. I'm aware that in many European countries the government pays for each student who attends an accredited school, including independent and religious schools.)

"Aniko, are you criticizing Peter for stating:'The level of scientific understanding in the US is among the lowest in the first world.'"

I will, as soon as he says something critical about the secularism of American public schools. (Be warned, Peter!)


"I only brought Sweden's test scores up because of the growing acceptance among PRIVATELY FUNDED schools and parents."

(Are they privately or publicly funded?)

Apart from, again, the small number of students affected, do you have any data as to whether there's been an increase in the scores that has gone hand-in-hand with the increase in religious schools? If the test scores have always been the high, your argument has little ground to stand on.

Sweden kicks ass on every front. Period. heh.

"If you really believe the world was created by the word of God, then why don't you believe the Genesis acount? "

A belief in the Divine creation does not require one to embrace the false science of Creationism.

Are you really too dim to see that Creationism is not a necessary correlation to Faith?

"Sweden kicks ass on every front."

It certainly seems so, Lori.

Sweden is continuously identified as one of the healthiest and happiest places in the world.