10 Things You Should Know About Obama's Stimulus Plan--But Probably Don't

Great synopsis, carla...well done.

You know, Carla, everyone has their eye and flapping lips all over how this guy Obama is falling behind here, too far there, not the messiah we paid for, et al. As I recall, we basically ignored W. until after 9/11. Obviously that was not the right course. However, this President has been in office for like a few days, and he is already going gangbusters in getting as much done as he can in the face of blowhard obstructionists, second-guessers and the slow grind of bureaucracy. I say, let's give him a break and some time to see what he can do; meanwhile I think we have plenty of yes we canning of our own to work on.

Libramoon, I absolutely agree.

Thanks for the update.

and now for inquiring minds like Carla and yours truly here is the complete text of HR 1 the Stimulus Package as passed and signed.
http://www.rules.house.gov/111/LegText/111_hr1_text.pdf

Great consolidation - thanks for all of your hard work, Carla - so very informative - makes one proud - finally...

Right on comment, libramoon!

He has done a lot of work, sounds to me he is a great manager of people beside having the ability to listen. On the practical side I am not anyone can tell what the economy will do and some of it will not depend on things that he will do or not do.
The only thing I object is more troops in Afghanistan, I think we should use a different approach and strategy.
I think a lot depends on the people themselves. Are we willing to take a chance and start a new business favored by today's climate? How will the circumstance work in our favor as far as other business stay afloat or new business starting quickly and efficiently run.
I would like to see more small business taking a chance, more people buying local even if it means pay few extra dollars. Support your local farmers by the way in anyway you can. We cannot afford to loose them at times like this.
I have an idea to open a second hand furniture and other items shop in town, affiliated with a charity so we can help the food banks and those who may need some cash for utilities. I have seen businesses doing well recycling phones, or plastic and creating new products. Now is the time to be creative, and turn a problem in opportunities.
Even bartering services is working well for some business in our area.

Hello Carla.

I was really impressed when President Obama signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. It was his first piece of legislation he signed as President.

The measure is designed to make it easier for workers to sue for decades-old discrimination. The law effectively nullifies a 2007 Supreme Court decision that said workers had only 180 days to file a pay-discrimination lawsuit.

Ledbetter said she didn't become aware of a pay discrepancy until she neared the end of her 19-year career at a Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. plant in Gadsden, Ala. She sued, but the Supreme Court in 2007 said she missed her chance.

The court said in its 5-4 ruling that a person must file a claim of discrimination within 180 days of a company's initial decision to pay a worker less than it pays another worker doing the same job. Under the new bill, given final passage in Congress this week, every new discriminatory paycheck would extend the statute of limitations for another 180 days.

Congress attempted to update the law to extend the time, but the Bush White House and Senate Republicans blocked the legislation in the last session of Congress.

Opponents contended the legislation would gut the statute of limitations, encourage lawsuits and be a boon to trial lawyers. They also argued that employees could wait to file claims in hopes of reaping larger damage awards. The bill does not change current law limiting back pay for claimants to two years.

The Ledbetter bill focuses on pay and other workplace discrimination against women. The Census Bureau last year estimated that women still receive only about 78 cents for every dollar that men get for doing equivalent jobs. But the measure, which amends the 1964 Civil Rights Act, also applies to discrimination based on factors such as race, religion, national origin, disability or age.

I really like President Obama's "Common Sense" approach to the many issues facing the American people. He's just a breath of fresh air.

Lloyd, actually, he is stronger than a breath of fresh air. He is the mighty wind of change. And I couldn't be more thankful.

Carla, beautiful job done here, well cited, and well communicated. I salute you.
Blessed be, to you and Mr. B...
Wilka

The mighty wind of change, I love that.

To bad the mighty windbag of discontent, rush limpaugh (He got busted with Viagra) and his cronies will do everything to hurt the economy because they don't want a black President to succeed.

Rude, you are starting to sound like a broken record.... they dont want a black/ white president to succeed... Oh baloney....
Keep on harping on Rush, but didnt Obama himself in his book say that he used cocaine? Or is this a rumor? You are beating a dead horse.... All Viagra does is make it stand at attention , it doesnt take you out of reality .. DOes it? So whats the big deal?
No, I think most Americans are tired of living from one paycheck to the next.. I think most Americans want to be happy, healthy and comfortable... Most Americans dont want their houses to be forclosed on.... We want what all Americans should want .. a piece of the apple pie.... But we want to be treated fairly,,,, we want American and its people to be safe and not live in fear of another 9/11,, We want jobs,, we dont want to support able bodied people who can work for a living.. We dont want to support illegals.... We want to live in peace and share some of the wealth... Now is this such a bad thing????
You libs when someone is not in agreement want to yell racist.... It may of worked for OJ but I think this has been done way to many times..Its time to get some new material...

This particular tidbit is not one worth bragging about....Caps the pollution that causes global warming, and makes polluters pay to support clean energy innovation.

It isn't the "poluters" that have to PAY, it's the consumer. Debate it all you want but the truth is, WE will pay the fines .

My problem with this is that it looks impossible for the wealthy who will see their taxes go up by 3.5% to be able to pay for this.

Don't get me wrong. I think that there are some very benificial programs in this plan...but who else is going to foot the rest of the bill?

RE: point #6--- a quick search found the top 3 US oil companies (ExxonMobile/Conoco/Chevron) using the 1st quarter of 2008 saw them earn, I SAID EARN, $20.19 billion in net profits,but paid $47.86 billion in total taxes. The effective income tax rate was 46%. :The Tax Foundation. Them loopholes are working out great.

BIG OIL is the boogieman inthe eyes of the left: This is a list of some of the products made from oil. Nearly everything in our lives is made from oil, made by machinery and systems dependent on oil, and transported by oil as either gas or diesel fuel.

Ammonia, Anesthetics, Antihistamines, Artificial limbs, Artificial Turf, Antiseptics, Aspirin, Auto Parts, Awnings, Balloons, Ballpoint pens, Bandages, Beach Umbrellas, Boats, Cameras, Candles, Car Battery Cases, Carpets, Caulking, Combs, Cortisones, Cosmetics, Crayons, Credit Cards, Curtains, Deodorants, Detergents, Dice, Disposable Diapers, Dolls, Dyes, Eye Glasses, Electrical Wiring Insulation, Faucet Washers, Fishing Rods, Fishing Line, Fishing Lures, Food Preservatives, Food Packaging, Garden Hose, Glue, Hair Coloring, Hair Curlers, Hand Lotion, Hearing Aids, Heart Valves, Ink, Insect Repellant, Insecticides, Linoleum, Lip Stick, Milk Jugs, Nail Polish, Oil Filters, Panty Hose, Perfume, Petroleum Jelly, Rubber Cement, Rubbing Alcohol, Shampoo, Shaving Cream, Shoes, Toothpaste, Trash Bags, Upholstery, Vitamin Capsules, Water Pipes, Yarn

RE: #4
On the campaign trail Obama endlessly promised to remove ALL the troops in 16 months of taking office. Today we get he will pare down the troop levels in 19 months ,but only down to 50,000. close enough I guess.

RE: #8
"Halves the deficit by 2013. President Obama inherited a legacy of huge deficits and an economy in shambles, but his plan brings the deficit under control "
Your serious ???? Obama says it,that makes it so....WOW
The Dems screamed about the "Bush" deficits even while being very willing participants in it. Obama inherited it, yes......But he proceeded to more than triple it in less than a month in office. The bottom line here is,in all of history, the New Deal, the Great Society,Japan's Lost Decade nothing that they tried and the Obama/Bush admin. are doing has ever worked.

Bu$h spent our country into this and Obama is gonna spend us even deeper, but both sre only puppets.

Rove/Cheny..the puppet masters...Bu$h...the puppet.

Pelosi/Reed...the puppet masters..Obama..the puppet.

I have to wonder why those who hold the most powerful office on this planet allow morons to dictate their every move?

Carla,

Excellent compilation of the facts involved!

Timothy,

Pelosi/Reed...the puppet masters? You've got to be kidding. Those two, especially Reed isn't capable of pulling Obama's strings. Pelosi is a little stronger but not much. I'd like to see both of them replaced with some better leadership in both houses but as long as they are there they've got to be worked with.

The only puppet in my many years to hold the office of president was GWB. And his subservience to Cheney has been a disaster for our nation. I know that many Republicans are pushing the idea of Obama being railroaded by the congress leadership but I assure you that is simply wishful thinking. You know, say it enough times and it will be true?

James.......history has a way of repeating itself. Rove and Cheney weren't exactly geniuses either.

My boss has a very high IQ as well as a college degree to back it up. However he manages to let two of his idiot employees who never graduated from highschool to manipullate him each and every day.

It's quite confusing, really. However it can happen.

Thanks for an excellent summary post, Carla. I think what most people like from President Obama is his honest approach. I also think that he's much more fiscally conservative than what he's portrayed to be by his opposition.

Yes, this is a large stimulus bill that puts spending for infrastructure forward. That's what a stimulus bill is meant to do, spend money to stimulate the economy. The economy needs a large boost to stem the layoffs that continue.

What I would like to see is an overview of the foreclosure crisis and what's being done there. Does anyone have a link to that?

Timothy, It's not unheard of for those higher educated to take the advice of those who work with other departments and resposibilities in their day-to-day work schedule. That doesn't necessarily mean they're taking leave of their own skills and authority when they do make a decision based on the less skilled employee's contributions.

Thanks for bringing some clarity to the forefront on the issue. Under the circumstances I feel that Obama is right on target.

RE: #2---"Reduces taxes for 95% of working Americans. And if your family makes less than $250,000, your taxes won't go up one dime."........it is true or should I say half-truth.
Your taxes won't go up one dime unless you use electricity....unless you use gasoline or heating oil, or natural gas. Then your taxes WILL go up and quite a bit more than a dime.

The problem with your sources is their obvious bias. Moveon.org? Come on! That'd be like me promoting some Bush policies and citing 20 articles from Townhall.com as my sources. And the New York Times...yeah...no bias there.

Excellent article and a lot of ignorant comments! LOL

I see that I must've missed the tray of Kool-aid on my way in to this thread.
I understand you liberals want to stick to what ever ideals you have(LOL),but the gleefull march down the road to socialism and the Nanny state is more than creepy.
I know that you all will DENY-DENY-DENY. As long as it is not Bush or a Republican. I don't want what we had the last 8 yrs. that was not Conservatism !!!! neo or any other thing you try to put to it.

I echo the cry.......WHERE IS JOHN GALT ?????

Ah yes, because any farm which has $500,000 or more in revenue must be a large agribusiness because politicians and large east coast newspapers tell us so. Except, in Nebraska, that same agribusiness would be the average sized family grain farm and not some huge corporation like some seem to assume.

To put the amounts talked about in some perspective, you would need several years of ag subsidies to equal one year of subsidization of home ownership in the United States. The home interest expense deductions and so on account for an expense in tax receipt reduction of $100 billion plus per year.

While the DOW continues to slide despite all this so-called great news to the lowest it's been in 11 years; why don't we all wait and see if this works before we get all giddy about it all...?

Top Notch Carla,
I love that LB pointed out how many products are made from oil. Which is one of the biggest reasons we simply have to stop burning it up. But seriously though LB. All these products can be made from plants, so perhaps you should try and keep up with science.

Brit Hume smacked the eye rolling sighing liberal light weight Juan Williams the other night and nailed Obama's and the left's attitude with this quote...."Democrats and liberals would rather have everybody equally poor rather than unequally rich! "

Devin, the issue isn't science or production....it's the demagoguery of "Big Oil". You cannot dispute my facts on the taxes the oil companies pay,so you throw out a straw man.
I say put out the plant-based products to compete with the oil-based products.....that would benefit the free market. Same thing with the energy.....allow everything into the market; Nuclear,coal,oil,NGas,solar and any other 'Green'. Everyone into the game,competition will benefit us all.

Thanks for your info Carla.

THink we need to be careful in Afghanistan. They are not fans of outsiders at all.

I like Obama's domestic ideas. Hope he and I are right.

Rude - Rush Limpballs was busted for Oxycontin trafficking. He was also busted, but at a later date, for getting an illegal prescription of Viagra. He got busted on his way to probably partake in kiddie prostitution in either Haiti or The Dominican Republic.

well worded

You all might not have heard it if you listen to Limbaugh, but RNC Chairman Michael Steele dismissed Limbaugh as an “entertainer” whose show is “incendiary” and “ugly.”

LB: Brit Hume? His comment isn't even worth responding to. He's just another political pundit on Fox masquerading as a legitimate journalist.

really Carla ???.....but you and Bob U. are "enlightening" ? All the backslapping amongst you Kool-aid drinkers is legitimate opinion ??? or are you deluded to the point that you believe your spouting gospel ? Brit Hume is to be denigrated but the self professed liar David Brock is the paragon of your "enlightenment" enough for you and Bob to drone on with a tendentious screed.

Rubbish. You forgot items 11 and 12.

11) Spend this country into the poor house. Strap so much debt on our children, our children's children, and our children's children's children that it may never be paid off.

12) Eliminate capitalism in favor of socialism. Reward laziness and stupidity. Flush this country down the toilet.

From your own link, "Makes a $634 billion down payment on fixing health care":


"He provided no new information about how to cover the uninsured, saying he would work out the details with Congress later this year...William A. Dombi, vice president of the National Association for Home Care and Hospice, a trade group, said this proposal would directly affect frail, sick older people...Patients would lose access to care very quickly. Over 70 percent of all home health agencies would be operating in the red.” President George W. Bush made a similar proposal last year, but it died in Congress."

Thanks, Carla. We have to hang tight and let this plan begin to work. I don't see the naysayers offering any substantive proposals, only gripes based on ideology.

What a lot of work you did, Carla. Well done. Obama is a breath of fresh air...I loved his speech last week.

Its sad that you swallow this stuff like you do Carla. Both right and left seem to think in such simplistic terms for the most part that the Founding Fathers would have changed their minds about a revolt to see what your parties have done in the last century.

a) that $634 BILLION is to work on a national health care system that has not even been approved or debated again in its envisioned form...this is the Dem version of democracy I suppose.

b) LOL, yeah. Unless you work or participate otherwise in the economy. Every increased level of taxation on a business has to be paid by consumers. Never mind how increased "fair" taxes will cause lower levels of economic activities by those taxed. Never mind that quite a bit of this tax cut is a subsidy/entitlement for many people who currently do not pay Federal income taxes anyway.

c) where in hades do you people get these "millions of green jobs" ? There is not much more than a few tens of thousands of such jobs now. Are we simply going to mandate that the jobs be made and then subsidize them? Green power as it now and is to be for some time is a minor player in the national economy. This notion that a simple order by government will actually cause private sector companies to jump into the field is nonsense. Look at the ethanol disaster and how that is even now collapsing. GE is the only major corporation that does nuclear/wind and even its stock is plummeting.

d) bringing many troops home (and as many back to Afghanistan) will be costly. Ramping up the war in Afghanistan will be far more costly per capita (per troop) than Iraq. I've tried arguing logistics to many of you and since you refuse to even look at it, you have no clue about the sheer cost of that theater of war. The freeing up of dollars will be minimal anytime soon. That whole statement presupposes no war stock replenishment and no actual increase in force activity in Afghanistan.

e) laughable statement. You could take every damn dime from all the rich and distribute evenly and in a year or two, you'd have rich and poor again. The rich pay the majority of the nations income classes now. You can play this wealth envy game for so long and then the wealthy will no longer play. Read your history, its been done here and in England and it did not work. Increase taxes while increasing spending is no better than the Repub policy of making some minor tax cuts and increasing spending. They both are debt increasers thought the Repub one does bring in some more revenue.

f) ahh now decreasing a subsidy is fine if its business but increasing others for people is fine. If your party was serious about budgets/the Constitution-working on this would be a good idea, the government should not SUBSIDIZE anything! As it is, cutting subsidies on one hand and increasing them 20 fold for others is wrong too.

g) its a wash. Increase the subsidy and colleges increase their tuition. Been watching college fees going up as fast as entities try to help students pay? Shoveling more money onto the situation will do nothing but increase the end costs and fatten the colleges while you are at it.

h) gee do I hear an echo here? Bush said that too. Its worse though for Obama because he is predicting huge economic recovery in a short time and that increased taxation will generate big revenue increases. Outside of the chiefly fans of his in the economic world, the bets are a 2-3 year economic lapse with slow to minimal recovery. Historically, raising taxes gets decreasing revenue too as people change their financial plans to avoid paying the tax. Also, Obama's planning on huge savings from so far only one government entity while increasing spending in virtually every other one. Too much of his great savings plans depend on a couple of slim reeds. So far the market/investor/consumer confidence is not exactly applauding any of his moves so far. People are saving, buying I and T bonds or moving their money overseas/into gold.

i) putting more money into the SEC and other agencies will not increase confidence. You are working under the assumption for some reason that a lack of government caused this problem. Notice nothing is being done to get Fannie Mae/Mac back into the black or out of markets that directly impacted the whole crunch. All that is being proposed is more levels of reporting (which causes billions of dollars lost now) and more oversight by Congress (who can't do a budget either). That's encouraging.

j) yeah the day after that was announced, it was also announced that supplementary requests for the wars will continue as before but supposedly be smaller. Also no mention remains of the cost of what is due under Medicare/Aid/Social Security...just more folding it all into the general budget. We still aren't being told our actual debts, short term or long term versus what we have. Obama's first act was to set up an "emergency" spending bill that has money going out for almost a decade and his supposed savings coming in budget cuts years down the road.

Your next five are worse.

Stopping subsidies to big banks is laughable. The government is now the major stockholder is the 3 biggest failing ones...you think they'll stop those loans? Do you think the government will stop subsidizing insurance companies who insure people on flood plains/zones? LOL

Expanding early child care...yeah getting kids into government mandated day care as soon as possible is better for them than being with their families. A few billion more will make all schools suddenly do better than the last few trillion tossed at them.

Make drug companies sell their wares cheaper. The ones that cost them billions to develop and which they funnel back into research. Do you ever wonder why our evil drug companies are virtually the only ones left on the planet still coming up with new products despite all the regulations? If they can find a product the FDA will actually approve (1 out of a 100 or so tried), they can make some money on them! Novel concept eh? They don't make money and the research will slow or stop. Its the profit motive that drives the train that has given us drugs, albeit expensive ones.

More of the subsidies you hate being given to business but love in other forms. Subsidies are bad Carla, simple message and one that would make great money for either major party if they'd actually adopt it!

Last but not least. Extort money from companies to subsidize (there is that word again) companies that you and government like. Doesn't matter that this harms jobs and the economy in general as 90 percent of the world will offer those companies a place to go instead of paying that Dane Geld. Cap and trade has already failed in Europe as little more than as a government shuffle game. Europe has no dynamic industries left and no longer has any goal of real industry/job expansion unlike our growing nation.

Your list actually does a pretty good job of why this plan is such a mess rather than highlighting any benefits to it. This plan is no economic miracle but a study in why the government should not be involved in such works.

It is sad how you gulp down the Obama kook aid, Carla. One of the biggest disasters of the Obama Stimulus is Health Care, and it is the major concern of Americans. Obama, admittedly now, does not know where it is going.

He says be patient, problems take a long time to solve, he says. But..wait...he had this all figured out during his campaigning. In the meantime where is the health plan that Obama promised... now...we learn he doesn't have one.

His hints about whatever his health care plans are reek of the old Daschle system and that does not look good for patients or Doctors.. Americans can expect a big push to build more federal bureaucracy, restrict medicines and technology, and expand government in our health care.

Obama is most likely working for a system of even more expanded government intervention in health care, starting with new government insurance for the elderly and poor, and then the rest of us.

This is socialized medicine. We must hope that Americans will never tolerate this. Remember our managed-care experiment in the 1990s? This is nothing less than a giant HMO with a federal bureaucracy setting the benefits.

Aimee, Check this out.

Carla, all I can say is hallelujah, and about damn time! Thanks for this.

Ann ,your article was overreaching in the fact department,making it a partisan opinion piece.
If you think we are just creating social programs and not Socialism maybe you need to get re-educating in the subject. If Obama and his accomplices,Redi/Pelosi aren't power grabbing us into Statism,why are 20 states are beginning a movement to reassert state sovereignty ?

Ann,

Your article was just more of the same, yet you seem unable to distinguish between social programs and socialism. Understanding this is key. Obama is a convincing orator and able to put the frosting on the cake of what a better society it will be. History has proven that where he is headed cannot and will not work. We have enough government control in our lives.

Once we give up power to our government, we are giving up our libeties. Once government has that power they will never give it back. Obama can be the catalyst that will release socialism upon us full force. Obama is the world's best salesman of Socialism. It is what it is regardless of how he disguises it.

Obama sucked us all in throughout his campaign with his slogan of "Change." The only change Obama is making is the type that most Americans did not sign up for. They wanted change from corruption and frivolous spending, not a complete change of our democratic and capitalistic society to one of socialism and demagoguery.

L B made a very important point about the 20 states who have recognized this power grabbing federal behemoth, and are moving toward secession. Some have asked Obama, Pelosi and Reid to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of constitutionally delegated powers.

Thanks, Carla. I received this today from the Move-On group. Glad to see you posted it. It would appear that your posts are really touching a lot of people who disagree with anything and everything Obama and the country stand for. Didn't we just elect him? Why all the nasty, picayune comments, do you suppose?

Whatever happended to United We Stand, Divided We Fall? Guess they all want us to go down the tubes! Lucky for us, there are more Americans in this country who want him to succeed and succeed BIG. And he will. But the likes of Limbaugh, McCain, and many others (see above remarks) could jeopardize his good work. And then, won't they feel proud? Hopefully, he won't end up like Lincoln or Kennedy who also had great aspirations for this country but couldn't fulfill them.

Yes, Elsie, isn't it interesting that we Dems were all criticized for not supporting Bush and were called traitors, un-American, etc. even in the last days of his administration. Now these folks complain, whine, and say they hope Obama fails. They don't even give him a month let alone a term in office to try to sort out and fix all the problems left to him by Bush.

Carla I've read so many articles anti Obama here on Gather I was thinking it must be a joke - a way to get points for people who don't read and don't understand what is happening. AND DON'T CARE.

Thank you for sharing such a well researched, well thought out, well written article.

All the liberal rhetoric still cannot and will not even address the issue of why 20 states are already considering secession, and moving to get their state's sovereingnty from under Obama and the federal govenment and the direction he is wanting to take it.

Why do liberals ignore that in all their blabbering?

This has not happened under any president in recent history, and Obama has been in office just over a month. That certainly was never a consideration under President Bush. Obama will be warned to cease and desist, effective immediately, mandates that are beyond the scope of constitutionally delegated powers. How do you explain that? Look at the 20 states plus others that are considering such a move. They are different and diverse in many aspects, but with the same goal.

It must be much more than whining and complaining of a few conservatives.

"Carla I've read so many articles anti Obama here on Gather I was thinking it must be a joke - a way to get points for people who don't read and don't understand what is happening. AND DON'T CARE."

That is a laughable statement. There are still many more ANTI Bush articles posted on Gather and he is not even the President anymore. God forbid that anyone says anything against the Messiah. His plan is going to ruin this country. If your house is burning would you tell the firemen to give it some time because it will go out by itself (because its only been burning for a little over 30 days) or do you want them to put the fire out immediately. Why shouldn't we stop his plan to ruin this country before everyone gets burned.

"All the liberal rhetoric still cannot and will not even address the issue of why 20 states are already considering secession, and moving to get their state's sovereingnty from under Obama and the federal govenment and the direction he is wanting to take it. "

Aimee, please provide a link for this information. I'd like to read about it. It's the first time I've heard of it and I watch at least 5 hours of newscasts, etc. daily.

//..we dont want to support able bodied people who can work for a living.. We dont want to support illegals.... Its time to get some new material...// Conservatives need to get "some new material", too. Try the truth for a change. "Able-bodied people who can work for a living" generally are doing just that, unless one of your Conservative friends just outsourced their jobs. And, despite the GOP rant to the opposite, most assistance programs require recipients to at least show proof that they have a green card.

Timothy V., 3.5% of a millionaire's income is a LOT of money! Plus other tax loopholes are being closed, so there's that much more to help pay for the stimulus. They've financed their decadent lifestyles off the backs of the poor and middle class for 30 years; it's time they gave some back.

//The Dems screamed about the "Bush" deficits even while being very willing participants in it. Obama inherited it, yes......But he proceeded to more than triple it in less than a month in office// The Obama administration accomplished that by honestly reporting ALL the budget items, including the 2 wars and who knows what else that the Bush administration had kept off the books!

RE the troop drawdown: There's a whole three months' difference, which can be chalked up to the Prez now knowing facts to whch he was not privy as a candidate.

As a self-confessed flaming liberal, let me be the first to say we should fire both Pelosi and Reed ASAP. They're much too heavily invested in the hysterical partisanship of the past - especially Pelosi.

//And the New York Times...yeah...no bias there. // At least, not a LIBERAL bias.

//WHERE IS JOHN GALT? // Selfishly amassing wealth and calling the people who work for him lazy ingrates, if he's like any other modern CEO. I read Ayn Rand, too. Social Darwinism is NOT the American paradigm!!!

//Rubbish. You forgot items 11 and 12. 11) Spend this country into the poor house. Strap so much debt on our children, our children's children, and our children's children's children that it may never be paid off. 12) Eliminate capitalism in favor of socialism. Reward laziness and stupidity. Flush this country down the toilet.// As opposed to the previous administration, who used the First and Fifth Amendments as TP; who said we don't torture and then proceeded to do so, and who turned a projected surplus into a trillion-dollar debt in 8 short years (not counting unreported expenditures like 2 wars).

I could go on and on. What it amounts to is this: Conservatives believe it's every person for themself. Liberals believe we're all in this together, and should help each other over life's rough spots. Whom would you rather turn to in a crisis?

"What it amounts to is this: Conservatives believe it's every person for themself. Liberals believe we're all in this together, and should help each other over life's rough spots. Whom would you rather turn to in a crisis?"

You're very mistaken, but I think many are. It's more like this. Conservatives might teach a hungry man how to fish, but liberals might give him a meal of fish. It may appear that his needs have been better tended to by the liberal, but the liberal keeps him dependent. When you're dependent on someone, you will always be indebted as well. Please don't speak for all conservatives if what you wrote is what you think.

Carla,

Shouldn't you have shown the source from whence you copied and pasted this article? OR did two of you just happen to write the same thing from, "Move-On?" AND...who was first? See:

http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977611414

Elsie,

The internet has a myriad of articles on this subject showing the outrage at Obama's stimulus package which is "weighted heavily toward advancing typically Democratic-supported social welfare programs, and the rebellion against the growing dominance of federal control is beginning to spread at the state level. Their aim is to get the U.S. government out of state's business and reassert state authority through a rollback of federal authority under the powers enumerated in the Constitution."

You can get information on each individual state and where they are in the process.

"So far, eight states have introduced resolutions declaring state sovereignty under the Ninth and Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, including Arizona, Hawaii, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire, Oklahoma and Washington.

Analysts expect that in addition, another 20 states may see similar measures introduced this year, including Alaska, Alabama, Arkansas, California, Colorado

, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Nevada, Maine and Pennsylvania."

Here are a couple of links to get you started. Other links are provided herein, or google by subject.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=88218

States declaring sovereignty is upped to 31 now *UPDATED 2/28 NH

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message722645/pg1

Jeannie said:

""What it amounts to is this: Conservatives believe it's every person for themself. Liberals believe we're all in this together, and should help each other over life's rough spots. Whom would you rather turn to in a crisis?"

Is this a personal observation? How can you possibly know what every conservative and every liberal believes?

Yes, Aimee, this 'article' is a copy and paste from an email. The only reason I know that is because the conservative who copied and pasted the email on her page was honest enough to mention it at the beginning of her post.

Gee Aimee, I live in Arizona, wouldn't you think I'd have seen something about this on our local news. Guess our media doesn't think it's very important.

Actually, April is a liberal too, so that just goes to show you there are some honest liberals.

Elsie,

Gee, I don't know; however, here is the word from your state representative, perhaps you should contact her, huh?

Republican state Rep. Judy Burges, the primary sponsor of the sovereignty resolution in the Arizona House, told WND the federal government "has been trouncing on our constitutional rights."

"The real turning point for me was the Real ID act, which involved both a violation of the Fourth Amendments rights against the illegal searches and seizures and the Tenth Amendment," she said.

Burges told WND she is concerned that the overreaching of federal powers could lead to new legislation aimed at confiscating weapons from citizens or encoding ammunition.

"The Real ID Act was so broadly written that we are afraid that it involves the potential for "mission-creep," that could easily involve confiscation of firearms and violations of the Second Amendment," she said.

Burges said she has been surprised at the number of e-mails she has received in support of the sovereignty measure.

"We are a sovereign state in Arizona, not a branch of the federal government, and we need to be treated as such," she insisted.

Perhaps YOU should email her also, Elsie, and become current on what your state is involved with.

That is comforting, Sue.

Isn't it a TOS violation/plagiarism to copy and paste another's material without designating the source?

Elsie,

Or another option would be to watch a different news channel in your local area.

I just researched 3 AZ papers, Tucson, Phoenix and Northern AZ. Not a word in any of them. I did learn that the fire dept is no longer going to rescue us from rattlesnakes, however. It isn't cost effective to send the truck and guys out to get those critters out of our yards. Maybe we need more money for our safety afterall. Ya think?

Never heard of Burges. She's probably from the Phoenix area and they don't like Democrats up there. I'll look her up when I get time.

I don't know, Aimee. People copy and paste emails all the time. Usually one of the libs comes by and says something like, "I'm giving this a one rating because it's a copy and paste," but that's usually a liberal upholding the double standard. Then someone else comes by and leaves a link to Snopes showing how it's an urban legend. I think this qualifies, but I doubt Snopes would dare.

You know, Sue, I don't have a problem with copy and pasting, but
NOT an entire article, and failing to notify the article is a copy and paste, and not crediting the real author. Anything less is disingenuous, as in this case, and this author is a liar and a thief.

I say that because many comments on this thread have applauded Carla and thanked her for her hard work, great research, beautiful job, excellent compilation and on and on. Never once, in response to those comments, did Carla have the honesty to say she copy and pasted the entire article, instead, she was willing to take credit for someone else's work. That is egregious. Now, all her posts are suspect.

I totally agree, Aimee.

What happened to Obama doing away with "pork" in bills? Reading every line of sometning before signing? This stimulus bill is so full of silly things that will not help the economy.....No one even read it all. It is just one big wish list made into reality.

Jeanie B. ,it's been a while since I've seen such long winded ignorance. I'm certain it won't be the last.
Conservativism in conjunction with Capitolism is a set of values,when held to in strict terms, is by far the best, most successful system for any society....EVER. Proof is the existence of this country. The most advanced,most wealthy,most compassionate,most free nation ever conceived...period...end of story. Of course people like you will point to the mis-steps,but that is because some have not stuck to the principles. They were corrupted,weak or phonies. Dems like you,Carla and Bob U. will be exposured to the notion that Liberalism is a mental disorder.
As Andrew Wilkow says : "We are right,they are wrong,end of story."

Aimee - Carla must have gone to the same school as Obama. Take credit for everything that goes right (the surge in Iraq) even though they have nothing to do with it. But, God forbid, something goes wrong then its everybody elses fault.

You are beating a dead horse.... All Viagra does is make it stand at attention

The horse?

Snicker!!!!

Vickey or anyone else that wastes their time answering rude d....he is basically a moron with the ability to dumb down sophestry. The best answer to him is not to.

Turns out that Carla doesn't give a flyin' fig that she gave no credit for the copy and paste, Aimee, because if you see the update she did for the next 5 reasons I found the exact same here. They're probably in a lot of other places too. They must be circulating more emails with the subject heading, Wait...We Overlooked These. Amaze Your Friends 5 More Ways."

Hey, if you came up with a plan that included 9000 earmarks, don't you think you'd like to hope that 15 of them might be reasonable even if only two are borderline useful? Personally, I wouldn't mention it unless I could find at least 4500 that meant something, but they have no shame.

Obama has defined himself as a liar and a BS artist. He also is either an economic moron or he is deliberately running the country into the ground, take your pick.

I don't know, L.B. I think you're being a bit harsh. Even Carla has not given any credit for some of the most important projects in the bill. I have to be fair and give due credit. I think they need to circulate another email announcing at least 8 more.

1. $1.8 million to conduct research in Iowa on swine odor and manure management.”

2. $173,000 for research on asparagus production in Washington State

3. $206,000 for wool research in Montana, Texas and Wyoming

4. $209,000 for efforts to improve blueberry production in Georgia.

5. $208,000 to control a weed known as cogongrass in Mississippi

6. $1.2 million to control cormorants in Michigan, Mississippi, New York and Vermont (I've never even seen one) Here's a pic.

7. $1 million to control Mormon crickets in Utah

8. $162,000 to control rodents in Hawaii.

WAB RIF,

I believe you're right. We know of others who went to that school, too, don't we?

I guess when you can't earn any credit on your own, you have to resort to devious means. It fine, and it works, till you get busted.

Sue,

We might be surprised where we might find all those cut and pastes. Then, again, maybe we wouldn't be surprised at all, based on what we know now.

9,000 earmarks ... they can call out 10 to 15 "reasonable ones." I'll have to go get my calculator to figure out the percentage rate of that.

"They have no shame..." an understatement, at best.

LB

I pick both. (Can I do that?)

Paula,

That is a campaign promise that Obama has already broken...

He promised to allow five days of public comment before signing bills.
"To reduce bills rushed through Congress and to the president before the public has the opportunity to review them, Obama "will not sign any non-emergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House website for five days."

He rushed his infamous Stimulus through in two (2) days !!!!

Sue,

Can I add one more important project in Obama's plan that should be circulated?

This one:

"... ... $125 million for the Washington D.C. sewer system..." (It probably got clogged up somewhere with all the s*** that goes through there.)

"I'm proud that we passed the recovery plan free of earmarks, and I want to pass a budget next year that ensures that each dollar we spend reflects only our most important national priorities."

Yeah, I'm sure, Aimee. It also might create jobs for sewer workers to collect non-biodegradeable toilet paper and tax the towns according to usage.

Hey Sue, on that non-biodegradeable toilet paper tax, would they be collecting DNA and tax the individuals? Or is the just a flat tax imposed upon the towns?

The above 8 items sure look important to me.


1. $1.8 million to conduct research in Iowa on swine odor and manure management.”
Air quality and e-coli are dangerous to the environment and the health of a nation of people. I woulnd't want it in my back yard.

2. $173,000 for research on asparagus production in Washington State
Asparagus is one of the most expensive vegetables on the market, and one of the healthiest. We need to find ways to grow it more cost-effectively.


3. $206,000 for wool research in Montana, Texas and Wyoming
We think nothing of importing wool from other countries at exhorbitant cost. Why not produce our own and save a lot of money? You can check out cost on any knitting website.

4. $209,000 for efforts to improve blueberry production in Georgia.
According to the NIH, blueberries are the highest in antioxidants of all fruit/vegitable. Much of what is available is imported from other countries south of us at exhorbitant cost ($4-6. for 6 oz). Let's save a lot of money and produce it here.

5. $208,000 to control a weed known as cogongrass in Mississippi
I don't know about cogongrass but I do know that bufflegrass imported to Arizona years ago by the BIG cattle producers to feed animals has taken over much of the Tucson area and presents a disastrous fire hazard. It is impossible to kill and must be pulled out of the ground by the roots, which spread like quack grass. Groups of volunteers are out hand-pulling the stuff nearly every weekend.


6. $1.2 million to control cormorants in Michigan, Mississippi, New York and Vermont (I've never even seen one) Here's a pic.
Cormorants are to water areas as pigeons are to cities. They are out of control and their droppings are unhealthful and unpleasant.


7. $1 million to control Mormon crickets in Utah
Crickets destroy millions of dollars worth of crops and vegetation. The also help scorpions thrive. (Who needs them!)


8. $162,000 to control rodents in Hawaii.
Rodents are rats and mice and are health threats everywhere. Many years ago some smart Hawaiins imported mongoose to kill the rats. Didn't work. Rats are up all night, mongoose are up all day. (Or is it the other way around?) Anyway the twain never meet.

All of this "they" talk includes both parties, so unless you belong to neither, perhaps it would be best to drop the discussion.

Aimee, I checked out state Rep. Judy Burges. She is a republican from Maricopa County. (that's where Phoenix and Sheriff Joe of the pink convict suits are) I looked at all the congressional press releases and none have been issued regarding her. I also checked out all her pending bills in the state congress. None relate to this issue. The only place I've found it is in the media and here. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

No Cathi, not flat, on rolls.

Good point, Cathi! I would say that taxing the individuals would be more likely. The DNA testing is very expensive so they'd undoubtedly want to spend the most they could to validate the tax increase.