Republicans: "Why should we monitor volcanoes?"

How can someone talk for two years about how out of control government spending and how large the deficit is getting to be then turn around and spend over a trillion dollars?

I suppose Jindal and the GOP think we should stop monitoring hurricanes, too.

Easy Charles, it's called trying to fix the problem. And when you are given a 10-mile deep hole, the first thing you have to do is fill it in.

I'm disappointed that the Republican response seems to have been same old, same old, in the sense that they cherry pick some program they think they can make sound ridiculous and highlight it as if it was the whole package. And that the people will forget who got us into this mess.

The problem the Republicans have now is that they, with the tone of this response, seem to have chosen the old way of thinking...thinking that showed through even though they tried to sell it in a shiny new package. This bodes an ill wind for the party because it appeals primarily to the base. And the base isn't going to win them any elections any more.

David K has it exactly right.

How dumb must these Republi-cons be? After watching McCain go down in flames screaming "Earmarks, earmarks!" they haven't changed their tune one note. (And guess what--Republican politicians abuse earmarks as liberally as anyone else.)

"Do wingnuts need to be told that we monitor volcanoes because they might erupt and kill people?"

They're idiots. These people have proven themselves to be entirely incapable of responsible governance, and every time one of them opens their mouth, they reinforce that fact. The republican criminal conspiracy is the single greatest threat that this nation and our world has ever faced.

Clark apparently you don't get it. Its not about the expenditure its about where it was included. Volcano monitoring would be better placed in the budget not a stimulus. It did not belong in the stimulus package, but alas they would require you to reason.

No, it is YOU and your wacky wingnut pals that do not get it. The American public has resoundingly, overwhelmingly rejected your loony toon, wacky wingnut, far right, extremist ideology, because it has been proven an abject failure.

But please, keep living in that little fantasy world, because the longer you people continue to pretend to yourselves that it's not YOU that's wrong, the longer your party will be out of power, and the better off this entire planet will be as a result.

Clark I am anything but far right. You have the debating skills of a two year old. The Fact is that the stimulus package should not have contained budgetary items that were not vetted through the normal committee process. But, of course you dont care you just want a headline

ModernDay Publius,

What spending should the stimulus package have been limited to? I ask because it seems to me that any spending is a stimulus to something.

MDP,

What is appropriate for receiving funding under the "stimulus" guise?

Banking, War, transportation, communications, civil defense, science, housing, education? All of these are investments in our future in some way or another. When we borrow money, we are betting that we can do something that will return more in the future.

I concur that short term payoffs are preferable in the current climate, but where do we draw the line?

The idea of the stimulus was short term investments that would provide the infrastructure for long term economic development. Money should have been used to put money in the peoples hands now. Either through tax cuts or preferably massive reduction on payroll taxes for a short time. Second, invest in infrastructure such as roads and highways that will help our country expand when we get back on our feet. Everything else should be vetted otherwise we get waste money. Like the money for the power plant in Illinois that got stimulus money even though the government took its money away because it was not cost effective.

//The Fact is that the stimulus package should not have contained budgetary items that were not vetted through the normal committee process.//

First of all, I've never seen you even come close to carrying on a rational, intelligent debate with anyone, so I find it laughable that you consider yourself such a grand authority that you can demean others. I guess when you can't beat 'em, you just try name calling. That's mighty mature, isn't it?

Secondly, prove to me that not a single job and not a single penny of economic growth will occur from this funding. Next, prove to me that by not monitoring volcanoes, we will somehow save or produce more jobs and economic growth.

See, this is what you wingnuts simply will never get. If it isn't a tax welfare check being handed out to paris hilton and bill gates, it's wasteful and unnecessary. You're WRONG. Your ideology is FAILED. The public has REJECTED it as a failure. Get it? It's time to change your ideology, or lay for decades in the barren wasteland of deserted political failures. Deal with it.

"The idea of the stimulus was short term investments that would provide the infrastructure for long term economic development"

According to whom? How is a major change in energy policy, a huge infrastructure buildout, and medicaid extensions "short term economic development?" Are you REALLY this clueless?



"Money should have been used to put money in the peoples hands now."

It is. Somebody hasn't been paying attention. Again. What a shocker.

Sounds like you are picking nits, Publius. To avoid drawing attention to the glaring fact that Republicans have nothing to add to the solution as to the economic crisis their failed policies caused, all they can do is cry waste. That's what Jindahl was trying to pull off in his rebuttal. If volcano monitoring was the most glaring example he could come up with, you should be giving Obama and the Dems a standing ovation. But the memo says be negative and obstruct. Throw sand in the gears. Very patriotic of you.

"To avoid drawing attention to the glaring fact that Republicans have nothing to add to the solution as to the economic crisis their failed policies caused, all they can do is cry waste."

No kidding. Hypocrites. How many of these fools were crying waste while Halliburton and Blackwater were getting billions upon billions of dollars in no-bid contracts, so that they could feed our troops poisoned water and food, murder them with defective wiring in showers, murder innocent civilians, and generally destroy America's image abroad? These ass clowns were not only utterly silent in their criticisms of these crimes, but they SUPPORTED them, AND had the unreproachable audacity to accuse US of being "unpatriotic" for not doing the same.

Just look at what these filthy bastards did over the past 8 years. For them to even open their mouths to speak at all is a disgrace, let alone to have them speaking in utterly fraudulent hypocrisy like they are.

This country was saddled with just a bit over $5 trillion in republiCON debt when Bush stole office, but that debt was going to be erased, thanks to a massive budget surplus that Clinton handed off. By the time the Bush/republICON wrecking ball finished their dirty work 8 years later, the nation is over $10 trillion in debt, with no end in sight.

And, what did we get for that additional $5 trillion in debt? Two illegal occupations and a collapsed banking industry. Sweet. Thanks, assholes.

Clark-

See it is all about who gets the money. If people get more money they put in back in the system. I just dont see why you are so against giving people back money to spend.

you say two illegal occupations are you referring in part to Afghanistan?

Julia I can give you tons: not all complete bad ideas but not immediate stimulus and should go through a normal budget review

• $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.
• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

• $850 million for Amtrak.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.

"If people get more money they put in back in the system."

That's what this stimulus package is all about. For some reason, you seem to be under the misguided notion that tax cuts for the middle class and working poor will somehow not put money into people's hands. Either that, or you're simply opposed to that, even though you say that you're for it. I'm guessing that you've just been worshipping your rightwing propangadists too much, rather than focusing on reality. You've got the talking points down, but unfortunately, as usual, they're fraudulent.



"you say two illegal occupations are you referring in part to Afghanistan? "

Of course. We had no lawful justification for occupying either Afghanistan or Iraq.

Every single one of those things that you listed will produce near immediate economic growth and jobs. Unlike your plan to simply keep shoveling tax welfare checks to Paris Hilton, which has proven to be a completely failed policy.

I think the middle class tax cuts were good they along with infastructure spending were the good things. But, $13 dollars a week come on. Lets reduce the 15% bracket to 7.5% (and the same with other brackets) and have it apply to payroll taxes for one year and I bet we will stimulate the economy.

I guess you don't think we should go after those that kill Americans, thats fine we can agree to disagree on that.

And now they are lining up to torpedo every progressive step President Obama has outlined in his proposal. See today's Wall Street Journal, Lobbyists Line Up

"progressive"

yes stealing from some to give to others. not what our nation was founded on. We should fight the robbery of peoples hard earned dollars

Publius,

How is it that any one of those items in your list (you choose the item) does not result in more pay, more jobs, and more production? They all look like spending that will generate jobs to me. Please show me how they don't create jobs.

Alan, you need to fix your link.

Publius,

Our nation was founded on stealing the very land from the natives. It was founded on indentured servants and later slaves. It was founded on taxing imports which raised the prices the public had to pay for those items. Don't you remember any of the history you read in school?

Larry my point is this.

$110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems

Since this is stimulus and not regular appropriation. There is not competitive bidding and no normal checks. They spend it quickly without normal vetting and we get tons of waste.

Larry-

One fact you should know by now the history they teach in school is not always the real history, but a different story. We founded this nation on a limited central government. The more power we give to the Federal Government the more power we lose as people.

This meets all the definitions of STIMULUS (hard and soft).

From livescience.com
Most of the money from the stimulus bill earmarked for monitoring (only about a tenth of the total going to the USGS) will go to modernizing existing monitoring equipment, including switching from analog to digital and installing GPS networks that can measure ground movements, said John Eichelberger, program coordinator for the USGS's Volcano Hazards Program.

The goal is to inject money into the economy that would otherwise not been injected into it. That's what this does.

"Ultimately most of this creates jobs or saves jobs that would have been lost" to recent budget shortfalls Eichelberger told LiveScience.

If this is not stimulative, what is?

Those computers are made and sold by somebody. That profit helps them keep their jobs. It encourages more production. That's a stimulus whether they deserve the money or not.

So you agree that we stole the land from the natives and that we had slaves. The government supported and encouraged the sealing from some to give to others. Remember what you learned about the building of the railroads? Whose land was that? Remember those high import taxes that favored those northern factory owners? Who paid higher prices so their businesses would make more money? The federal government may have been smaller but it was just as active in favoring some over others as it is today. That has always been the case.

The power in our nation today is not in our hands just as it was not 100 years ago and just as it was not 200 years ago.

To get what you claim to want, a lack of government interfering in our lives, no taxes at all of any kind, and completely free enterprise with no government regulation of business please visit

www.nopom.info

and see how we can actually get what you claim to want. I'm quite serious. We can really have all those things and relatively quickly. It won't cost anyone anything to make the change either.

Pub,

"Real history"? Is there such a thing? I grew up thinking that my Mom told me one story, my Dad another, my uncle still another and so on.

"stealing"? ..again..POV. For some government steals, for others polluters and war mongers steal.

I suppose you have more faith in "regular appropriations" than I do. I don't see how that system has been useful in getting us involved in the situation we are in now.

I agree that vetting is preferable, but it has failed and we need action quickly.

OK, I'm going to just come out and say it. The rich have been greedy hoarding leeches and caused this mess. To hell with anything they or their Republican lap dogs want. We should not only take away the Bush tax cuts from them, Congress should institute a national assets assessment for every person worth more than $20M of no less than 5% of their net worth and put that money directly into the hands of the people making less than $250K/year.

The people at the bottom are the ones who have been swindled by the people at the top and it is only fair that we get some back. Our work made them rich and we deserve a bonus for our efforts.

When I say net worth I also mean every asset they own inside or outside of America. All the offshore accounts, foreign real estate, all of it. Have forensic accountants go over their money with a fine toothed comb and make them give a little back for all the benefits they've seen from our economy. The only exception should be if they willingly give the money to charities that serve the needy inside America they can get a deduction. I'm sick of my work being undervalued and stacking up while they take six week vacations to Aruba and claim to be worth millions when they run their companies into the ground.

The corporate executives and short sighted Republicans got us into this mess. They should have to pony up and get us out of it.

As for how the stimulus money is being spent, as long as it is paying Americans to work who would otherwise not be working, I'm cool with it. I don't care if they're monitoring volcanoes or inseminating sheep. If they are getting a paycheck and spending it in American stores, we are better off for it.

Who's gonna pay for all of this? When the Bu$h tax cuts expire, those with an income of over $250,000 will see their tax rate jump from 36% to 39.5%. Is that going to be enough to pay for all of this?

Looking at the time stamps on these posts, I'd say that most everyone who commented on this thread is posting on behalf of either the Republicans or the Democrats and they have now retired to sleepy sleepy land. Anyone who believes that thes people are just expressing their personal opinions are either on drugs or have a serious mental problems.

Don't believe anything that any of these posters write becaue they are payed to sway your opinion. Do some research....google it and come up with your own opinion.

Timothy- They pay people to sway opinions if this is true can you tell me who to call to get that job

"Timothy- They pay people to sway opinions if this is true can you tell me who to call to get that job "

Once I find out, I'll let you know. But keep in mind that I'll be first in line.

Nobody paid me for my opinion. I just read the newspaper over the last ten years and kept up to date on what's going on in the world. This mess started with a Republican Congress and spineless Democratic president who didn't have the foresight or balls to say "Hell no!" when he was handed a bill that repealed the protections against banks doing the same things that led to the depression in the 1930's. Clinton and Graham got us into this mess, W. made it worse with more deregulation and now its about as jacked up as its ever been because the American government seems incapable of learning from its own mistakes. Clinton and Bush were basically the Coolidge and Hoover of the modern day. Thanks for your keen sense of history guys... You really did us a solid by screwing up in the exact same way they did in the 1920's and 30's. Only this time the bailout is going to make sure that there is no massive shakeup at the top so the same jackasses that got us into this mess are going to stay in charge. I place the blame at the feet of both parties. More Republican than Democrat but both sides played their role in this clusterf**k of a situation we find ourselves in.

"$88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship)."

Why do we need a new icebreaker? I thought there wasn't going to be any ice there?

Pub, the stealing stops under an Obama adminstration. No more loopholes for U.S. companies stashing money in accounts where they can't be taxed, or gaming the system to produce products overseas where their profits are taxed at a lower rate, if at all.

The Realist tells it like it is.

If people get more money they put in back in the system

This is NOT a factual statement. Do you know what most people did with the last stimulus check that was send directly to them? They paid off existing bills or saved it. Generally, about 20 cents on the dollar of "tax breaks" and refunds went back into the economy. The rest went to paying off old debt or was being saved for emergencies. It did not stimulate more spending.

Whereas the point of the current stimulus is to get more money actually buying stuff and creating jobs. No, it won't be a perfect $1 to $1 ratio. But it will probably be closer to 80 cents on the dollar.

The fact is, we have already seen that deregulation and tax cuts alone won't boost the economy. In fact, the Republican obsession with both is partly to blame for the current economic state. We need to try something new and extreme to get our footing back.

YES, some people made bad business decisions.
YES, some people took out mortgages they never should have.
YES, some people will abuse the new stimulus package for their own gains.

BUT...

Are those reasons to sit on our hands and allow the entire country to go down the toilet?

You want to wait around until they come up with a 100% "perfect" package? Good luck with that. Beause everyone in Washington has their own idea of what "perfect" is. If you want to wait around for a 100% unanimous vote on the stimulus, you are living in a dream world.

Whether those items should or should not have been included in the stimulus or a regular budget is a non-issue. Because either way, taxpayer dollars would pay for them, right? What in the blue hell does it matter then if you agree that they are actually worthwhile expenditures? Your arguing whether something is half a dozen or six pieces.

Primma-

The stealing is occurring under the obama administration. They want to steal over 27% of GDP to let government spend money. Give it to the Tax Payer they know how best to spend the money.

Julia-

The problem is you are talking about 300-600 per person checks. Of course they dont have a long term impact. They got one check. Now, on the other hand if we instead let everyone save the next 9,000 in payroll taxes (the 9000 is the per american total in the stimulus) we would see a huge impact.

Clinton and Graham got us into this mess, W. made it worse with more deregulation and now its about as jacked up as its ever been because the American government seems incapable of learning from its own mistakes. Clinton and Bush were basically the Coolidge and Hoover of the modern day. Thanks for your keen sense of history guys...

AMEN!

What were we talking about? If you give tax cuts to the people at the bottom, they will spend them. If you give tax cuts to people at the top, they will hoard the money they save. Economists on both sides of the aisle, with no ox to be gored, will tell you this. Anyone really think Paris Hilton needs a bigger inheritance?

Publius does have one good point. If they did give 9,000 to each person in America, we could pay down our bills and still spend in a meaningful way to stimulate the economy. We could also stimulate the economy if we wrenched some of the massive profits from the hands of the top 5% and invested them in employing Americans again. If they cheated their way to them via foolish speculative risks that hurt the American economy they should be held personally responsible. All the CEO and CFO bonuses for the last few years related to risky investments should be forfeit and siezed by the government to fix the mess these jackasses caused. As for the sponsors of the bill that started this mess and the presidents who supported it, they should have to give up a hefty sum of their money to fix the problem as well. We should be talking about holding those who caused the mess accountable in financial terms. Sieze their assets and use the money to fix the problem. If a few billionaires end up homeless for their own greed, so be it!

TR,

Not homeless. Kindergarten is cheaper than prison.