I am a big advocate for the individual patient to grow their own Marijuana rather than being dependant upon a so-called caregiver. Under Michigan's new Medical marijuana Law, there is a provision that allows the patient to declare another individual as their Medical marijuana provider. These individuals would be allowed to grow up to 12 plants under the patients name and provide up to 2.5 ounces of finished usable marijuana to the patient when needed.
Through my interaction and association with an organization @ http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/forum I have come to find out that the majority of these supposedly compassionate caregivers are planning on taking advantage of this provision to over-produce so they can divert the Marijuana for sale on the black market. You see, these caregivers who have been growing marijuana for the black market all along, are planning on growing the full 12 plants per patient. Under the law, they are allowed to assist up to 5 patients at one time. This means they can legally grow up to 60 marijuana plants every 90 days. Each of these plants has the potential of producing 16 ounces of usable marijuana.
That is 960 ounces every 90 days while each patient is only allowed 2.5 ounces at any one time. ( 960 ounce = 60 pound )
Does anyone really believe each qualified Patient can consume 192 ounces of Marijuana every 90 days? ( 192 ounce = 12 pound ) That is 2 ounces every day.
The law states that these caregivers can be compensated for expenses plus their time involved in this endeavor. I have estimated that it wouldn't cost more than $500 to grow these 60 plants through the full life cycle. It is my opinion that this expense plus a reasonable wage for the service shouldn't exceed more than $1,500 for the entire crop. That would mean each of the patients should pay approximately $300 and receive their full harvest of 12 plants each.
If we assume each patient might use 2.5 ounces per month, that equals 37.5 ounces which goes to the (5) patients, leaving 922.5 ounces to be sold on the black market at $400 an ounce. They are also planning on selling this marijuana to the chronically and terminally ill patients for the same price. Even if each patient consumes 2.5 ounces each month, that is 7.5 ounces at a cost of $3000 per patient, multiplied by 5.
This means the caregiver will be compensated $15,000 every 90 days by patients for an investment of $500 by the grower.
The remaining 922.5 ounces sold on the black market equals $369,000 every 90 days. So for an investment of $500, these growers will make a profit of $384,000.
Not quite what the people of Michigan would call Compassionate Caregiving.
I have recently been removed as Moderator and Banned from http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/forum for promoting my views on this issue.
I want the people of Michigan to understand how their good intentions are being corrupted and taken advantage of by this community.
There is also a movement among these so-called caregivers to subvert the law by providing the State of Michigan with a PO Box as their address so that they will be protected from inspections. See the current rules state that the patients name and address must appear on the state-issued ID card. If they conscript a caregiver, the caregivers name and address must also appear on this state-issued ID card. They have employed a lawyer who has advised them that there is a loop hole in the law allowing them to use a PO Box as their contact address.
This organization is also advising people who do not have a chronic or terminal illness or disease that they can acquire a state-issued ID card if they simply complain that any medication they are prescribed by their doctor causes nausea. This is an effort to get around the list of qualifying illnesses, allowing those who smoke marijuana for recreational purposes to obtain this legal protection. If they are prescribed medication such as high blood pressure medicine, they simply claim it makes them nauseous and this will suffice as a reason to receive this ID card.
The entire intent of this Compassionate Law is being subverted by the recreational and criminal elements of our society. I find this disgusting and cheapens the real suffering of chronically and terminally ill patients in Michigan.
Now, I also want to state that while it isn't necessarily true that every patient is poor, a good portion of patients are surviving on Social Security income. If this caregiver movement takes root, how is a chronically or terminally ill patient on Social security going to afford $1,000 per month to purchase Medical Marijuana?
It is for this reason I suggest each qualified patient grow their own marijuana.
I will be posting future articles showing just how inexpensive it can be accomplished
What do you think of this issue ?
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Comments: 41
I'm surprised at the leniency in the Michigan law and thank you for making me aware. It seems they don't have the regulations as tightly controlled as I would think necessary. It's important to show responsibility early on so this type of legislation doesn't get killed. All it's going to take is one caregiver dealer getting busted to bring it all down. Then we don't get anywhere on medical or recreational legalization.
These greedy people are going to ruin it for those who this law was intended to assist. I am not against every adult having legal access to marijuana but, that is not the reality today and by these folks subverting this new law, in two years when this law comes up for renewal, it will be eliminated as a failed experiment.
Then everybody loses.
And this is possible @ $400 an ounce, how?
If the patient grows their own and is able to do so, I have no problem but, who is going to spend $800 per day on Marijuana ?
Maybe you missed the point of my article?
Sure if they are grown outdoors but then it would take 8 to 10 months from start to finish.
Indoor, each plants will only produce 3 ounces on average every 90 days.
I have estimated that it wouldn't cost more than $500 to grow these 60 plants through the full life cycle. This is just not true. You estimate because you have never grown Medical Marijuana. I can tell you from experience that the real cost is about $20,000 to $25,000.
"If we assume each patient might use 2.5 ounces per month," that's a low assumption. The Federal Medical Marijuana patients like Elvy Musikka use 8 ounces a month and she would like to use more.
"I have recently been removed as Moderator and Banned from http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/forum for promoting my views on this issue." I can understand why. Richard, you sound like a disgruntled employee who doesn't know the first thing about growing Medical Marijuana.
You need to grow Medical Marijuana for 5 patients then post your experience about costs and reasonable wages. Until then you are just guesstimating using fairy tale numbers that make you look like a fool to an experienced grower.
Pierre Werner
www.MedicalMarijuanaReferrals.com
p.s. I would ban you from my website too
This has given me a lot to think about.After reading your site as to how to grow your own. I'm positive, I can grow my husband and I our own medicine.It must be this way. We are both on Social Security and we have no choice, but to do it this way.I'm sure there are caregivers that are not like some you mentioned.But I have to look at it this way.Many of us on limited income walk a fine line with our budget. It does not take much of a $$ emergency to wipe us out financially for the month, car repairs etc. At the going price for a caregiver, would it be fair to him or her if they were counting on payment for their service. It is sad but true, one of the things we cut back on is our medicine. Cutting pills in half, taking one pill instead of the prescribed 3 a day.First thing to cut on is food, second is your meds. Sometimes both. Having a caregiver I fear is going to be a luxury, few can afford.What I would like to see is this. Maybe listings in the newspaper and on the internet of caregivers rates for their badly needed services. This could be in all areas of Michigan. Perhaps list just what their service provides. Such as do they deliver. Many patients do not drive. Whether they provide the patient with some time to show them how and the many ways they can use marijuana. Things like this. Give patients the opportunity to shop around.Many things of this nature are important to a patient.Maybe I might beable to grow our own medicine now. But the reality is 3 months down the road, it is a real fact of life, I may have to be shopping for a caregiver. If of course we could afford one. Another thing I would like to see. Experienced caregivers giving new patients references from there other patients. Of course only if they are willing to share their experience of using the caregivers services. Sick people are fragile and caregivers may be strangers. Just the ordinary things one does when hiring an employee. This seems to be a complicated issue that needs to be worked out to be fair to both parties. But it can be done.
OK Pierre, if these so-called caregivers grow 12 plants per patient and obtain 3 ounces per plant. That is 36 ounces per patient, which I alluded to above. That means the so-called caregiver is growing 180 ounces every 90 days.
If the caregiver charges $400 per ounce, that equals $72,000 every 90 days. Even if it were true that it cost the caregiver $20,000 to $25,000 every 90 days to produce this marijuana, that leaves them with a $47,000 profit every 90 days.
These are your numbers now.
Do you really believe these caregivers should earn $188,000 tax free income per year?
Please justify this to all of us who are surviving on Social Security Income.
You mention Federal Medical Marijuana patients like Elvy Musikka use 8 ounces a month and she would like to use more.
You neglected to mention how much she pays for this marijuana.
ELVY MUSIKKA is one of only four federally supplied medical marijuana smokers left on the govt. IND program. she receives 300 joints a month from uncle sam for glaucoma!! that's 12 a day average!!
she has been receiving govt. supply since oct, 1988!!
http://elvymusikka.com/
300 gram = 10.5821886 ounce provided FREE by the Federal Government, not being charged $400 per ounce.
Are you really of the belief she could spend $4,000 per month to be supplied with her 300 joints ? because that is what you and all those I spoke of above believe the patients of Michigan should be paying them. How does that work for people who receive $1,000 or less per month from Social Security ?
Strange, I visited your organizations website @ http://www.medicalmarijuanareferrals.com/ and while it has a lot of information regarding efforts to pass laws allowing marijuana there isn't ANYTHING regarding prices.
I did notice you offer Now Offering "By-Mail" Service For NEVADA Patients Outside of Las Vegas
That's real kind of you, how much does that service cost ?
We might as well settle this charge of my being "a disgruntled employee" right now.
I was a member of their website forum and after having been involved in more than a few heated debates on this very issue of caregiver compensation, I logged on one day to find I had been made a Moderator of their forum. I never asked to be placed in such a position nor was I ever asked by anyone in the organization if I would serve in such a position.
I was simply made a moderator without my consent.
During the one month that I was a moderator for the site i did two things as a moderator. I notified the management of a suicide threat by a troubled member and I deleted a pornographic avatar that a member put up.
The management of that forum think I'm some kind of idiot and don't know the reason behind their forcing this position upon me. See, they apparently thought by making me a moderator and sweet talking me like I was some trusted member of their inner circle, that I would be prevented from exercising my first amendment rights of free speech thus, ending my opposition to the greed of the caregiver movement. When that didn't occur, the various members who were promoting this rip-off of chronic and terminal patients began slandering my character and provoking me into arguments in an effort to get me removed from the site. The last straw came when I was accused of promoting the murder of caregivers and when I complained the the Admin I was stripped of my moderator status and banned from the site.
There is a lot of money involved in this drug trade and they weren't going to allow an individual like me get in the way of those profits. You apparently are defending those actions for the same reasons.
No, I believe they should earn more. I believe $188,000 is not worth the risk, they need to be producing more like $700,000 to $1,500,000 million a year for the risks they take. Caregivers are putting their lives on the line and should be rewarded as such. You complain about these caregivers earning money, you're "outrage" would be better served if it were aimed at police/dea agents who terrorize caregivers. They take away people's children, confiscate all resources and finally imprison them decades. Who are you to decide what is fair compensation?
"You neglected to mention how much she pays for this marijuana." I also neglected to tell you she testified at my trial. True she does not pay for her marijuana, instead you and I and every other taxpayer has that honor. It costs the Federal Government a few million dollars to produce the crap they give to 4 patients left in the fed program. So if you break down there costs per ounce it would be something like $5,000 an ounce. When you compare it to state caregivers they produce it cheaper and of much better quality. In fact Elvy will tell you I produce the best medicine in the world (Purple Kush). Nothing is "free".
"there isn't ANYTHING regarding prices." Right now, I'm not selling Medical Marijuana. I'm still on parole until April 11, 2009. I went to prison for growing and selling Medical Marijuana in Nevada, sentenced to 19 to 48 months. I will tell you that when I did sell my medicine, I sold it for $500 an ounce. As for the Nevada Mail service, just keep on reading its self explanatory.
"There is a lot of money involved in this drug trade and they weren't going to allow an individual like me get in the way of those profits. You apparently are defending those actions for the same reasons." I wouldn't allow anyone to get in my way. Instead of complaining, grow it yourself and give it away if it makes you feel better.
But bad mouthing caregivers who are trying to help sick people, well I find that disgusting. You are more of a Tuesday arm chair quarterback. Get your hands dirty and spend a couple of years in prison and you'll see the prices at $400 or $500 an ounce is very reasonable.
Go complain about the makers of Viagra who make millions of dollars. Leave the Medical Marijuana Caregivers alone.
Pierre Werner
www.MedicalMarijuanaReferrals.com
And exactly how are these caregivers helping sick people? You mean the sick people who can afford to spend $1,000 per month on Marijuana? Apparently those of us who are sick people, surviving on less than $1,000 per month are not your concern.
I am growing my own and this forum is for the express purpose of encouraging others to grow their own.
It's obvious these compassionate caregivers couldn't give a shit about sick people who can't afford their marijuana. They only care about the sick people who can afford $1,000 to $4,000 per month so that you can become a Millionaire on their backs.
Maybe I'm one of those dirt poor Michiganders but I don't know anyone that could afford those prices. Lived here for 65 years,know a fair amount of people. Not one of them could afford those prices.
That Viagra issue should really be disgussed elsewhere. Don't ya think?
I believe you'll get a much better picture of who he is and why he so adamantly supports his position.
I can't knock you for that. I also encourage patients who can't afford to buy their medicine to start growing their own.
"It's obvious these compassionate caregivers couldn't give a shit about sick people who can't afford their marijuana." Why insult caregivers who are trying to help sick people? When you grow your own and for other people, then you can talk about your experience.
I gave plenty of medicine to my truly broke patients. Hell, I even let some of them live in my homes rent free, but with your attitude, I wouldn't give you shit.
Pierre Werner
www.MedicalMarijuanaReferrals.com
I never asked for anything from you or anyone.
Self-empowerment is the key to any successful endeavor and Michigan's medical marijuana program will be successful despite the people who believe this is a financial opportunity. There is a place for caregivers yet, there is no profit in it if they follow the way our law is designed. Just like in Nevada, the law was designed for the benefit of the patients and apparently you couldn't abide by the rules and took it upon yourself to violate those rules.
I harbor no animosity towards you personally, I just do not believe patients are assisted by the method you prescribe. The only person who benefits is you and those who are truly in need are left dependant upon the greedy people who want to profit off of the sick and dying. I will do everything in my power to forestall that from occurring in my state.
We already have people from California moving to Michigan hoping to cash in on our citizens suffering.
It is unfortunate that marijuana use is not legal of course, like coffee and alcohol, and that this transitional period is required. But it is.
Sadly I think you are right that this type of behavior and abuse of the system created to deliver medical marijuana to supply recreational users at a profit is going to result in a backlash and a step back in the march towards saner drug laws.
But having let the genie out of the bottle I don't think it will ever be possible to put it back in again, either.
Happily the road to the future points to a more liberal one in most ways. One has only to look at history to see that.
Keep on posting the excellent articles, you should be a journalist who gets paid for this. The quality of your ideas and topics is far above what I find in my newspaper, perhaps a little more time on fact checking and confirming things like your black market economics would help. But really good stuff, many thanks for the effort you put into your writing.
The law wasn't designed for the benefit of the people. Our chicken shit legislature's were too scared to implement the will of the voters. Originally the law that the voters passed, stated the Department of Agriculture was supposed to supply the Medical Marijuana patients.
Yeah, I broke the "rules" and I helped lots of patients. Also, I hope you help lots of patients.
The only person who benefits is you and those who are truly in need are left dependant upon the greedy people who want to profit off of the sick and dying.
News flash every drug in a drug store is meant to profit off of the sick and dying. I'm no communist, profit is not a bad thing.
Pierre Werner
www.MedicalMarijuanaReferrals.com
Big sigh. ROM is of course very well known to us. He is also very well known on a multitude of other cannabis reform sites--the ones that haven't already banned him.
Richard is a psychiatric patient in northern MI. Much of what he says does in fact have some element of truth to it---if you dig deep enough and look at it through the lens of psychosis.
You may be confident that we are not encouraging anyone to break the law. There have been vigorous discussions on our forums of how to work w/i the law--just where the boundaries are, can they be pushed here, massaged there? But over and over our watch word has been--the law is the law and we all must remain w/i the law.
For example: caregiver address on the Registry card, which is required by the Act http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/node/11. Many caregivers and patients alike are alarmed because they fear a scenario where someone/somehow comes across a card, notes the address where medicine is being cultivated and then the rippers swing into action. The overwhelming majority of our members are feeling fairly secure from police harassment but are terrified of grow rippers. So the discussion on this has been "robust," to put it mildly.
Richard though is fixated on the idea that the only reason anyone would not want their name on a card is because they plan to operate outside the law and hence are fearful of law enforcement knowing their address. It has been pointed out to him repeatedly that it is the rippers we fear, not police and that anyone who has their name on a card IS legal; that is the whole point of the law.
If a caregiver was intent on subverting the law, the last thing s/he would do is register with the state. Hesitancy to have an address printed on a card has little to do w/ fear of the police and everything to do with fear of home invaders. But nope, Richard has this amazing ability to look into his computer monitor and read the inner most thoughts and hidden motivations of others hundreds of miles away and he KNOWS that caregivers to a man are all just scum sucking criminals intent on all manner of nefarious mischief at the expense of vulnerable patients.
Eventually it was pointed out (by me, btw) that while the law requires a physical address for patients it only requires AN address for caregivers, nor is there any requirement to register actual grow sites. The law is the law and words have meaning. It appears that caregivers may use a PO box if they don't want their physical address on the card. Richard of course decided this was merely a ploy to subvert the law. There is no reasoning with the unreasonable and Richard's delusions are deep seated to say the least.
This idea that we ran Richard down, hog tied him and forced him to be a moderator on our site is so ludicrous as to defy common sense. Just how would that work anyway?
The truth is that discussions on our forums do flow fast & furious and at times stray well outside the bounds of where we would like them to be. The forums do require constant monitoring. The upshot was that we quickly discovered that even though the forum is a minor part of our greater mission it was consuming an overwhelming proportion of my partner's and my time.
Richard on the other hand was constantly on the site, commenting on this, talking about that, so in one of our discussion we thought to ask him--and several others--to moderate figuring it would free us up to attend to more pressing issues. Immediately following the telephone conversation where we decided to do this, my partner went in and did whatever has to be done to give the new moderators the appropriate access and at the same time I sent e-mails inviting the new moderators to take on the role.
I guess you could say that Richard did log on one day and suddenly discover w/o warning that he was a moderator. If he logged on to the site before he checked his e-mail, that is. And he could have always said, no, which is what a couple others did. But Richard was thrilled, sent an effusive e-mail thanking us and assuring us he was up to the challenge. And yes, as things played out over the next few weeks, we did point out many times that the first requirement of a moderator is to be moderate and seek the middle ground.
Richard on the other hand continued to yammer about Free Speech, not understanding that when you get right down to it, I personally am the legal owner of both the URL and the entire MMMA corporation so he has no “rights,” only privileges. Privileges he turned out to be intent on abusing. No one ever told Richard he could not discuss his personal beliefs. We just told him that moderators don't flame members.
Over the weeks his true colors emerged. Richard is extremely argumentative and was w/o equivocation, the most disruptive element on our site (and in fairness, we have several trolls). We worked hard and patiently to counsel and mold Richard, gave him many chances to grow into the job and frankly, let him go far longer than we should have. His psychosis just kept spinning more and more out of control.
And then we started getting member complaints about their posts being edited and deleted. Took us a while and some sleuthing to figure out how/who was doing this but all the fingers pointed back to Richard. He of course denied it but computer logs don't lie.
Not unlike any other site that is rapidly growing and adding 25 to 50 new members daily we started to see a certain amount of flame wars. Invariably Richard would be in the middle of them as the chief instigator. Time and again flames would erupt, other moderators would step in and get things calmed down and then Richard would rush in and re-ignite the flames again.
The end game played out with his threatening to ban one of our members entirely. The flame wars were raging and one of our members made a comment that was in very poor taste and yet quite appropo--"bickering on an internet forum is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."
Richard went berserk and in his rant threatened to purge the offender entirely from our site first and then get authorization to do it from the site owners (my partner & I) second. I sent him a private message pointing out that he had neither the authority nor evne the access to remove anyone from our site. And then I terminated his moderator privileges. But he still had member access.
Within a matter of hours Richard was in full cry on the site stirring up more hate & discontent. At the same time my in-box was being flooded with messages from patients saying they were leaving because they were deeply intimidated--not by these imaginary unscrupulous caregivers but by Richard and his psychotic, out of control behavior. We (the other moderators) posted multiple messages urging our members not to feed the troll--just don't even respond. Suddenly Richard found himself cut off from the attention he so desperately craves.
So, after posting one more of his highly inflammatory posts in one thread, and getting no response there, he cut & pasted that post on to a more active thread--another thing he had been warned about several times.
In response Richard was given a 3 day suspension (which will elapse on Monday, Feb 23). He has not been banned from our site; that is just one more of his delusions. But now, rather than taking the time out to stop and reflect on how his own out of control behaviors are at the root of his problem he apparently has decided to trash us on other sites. I am disappointed. I am not surprised.
To bring this full circle--the idea that we are freely discussing and encouraging our members to thumb their noses at the law flies in the face of reality--and common sense. Our forums are crystal clear transparent and open to all comers. Anyone can log on, anyone can read them, anyone can post.
We know for certain fact that law enforcement monitors our site. We know this because a) I have sent many of them the url and asked them to visit us regularly and b) I occasionally receive private messages from law enforcement personnel telling me they have concerns about certain posts made by certain specific members and asking me to encourage said member to stay w/i the law.
This is known to our membership--I both forward the warning to the individual member plus we have stated on the front page of our site repeated warnings that we are being monitored.
Thus far the police in MI have shown a willingness to work w/ us. As Berrien County Sheriff, Paul Bailey said to me when we met in his office last Monday to discuss how our community and his could work together for successful implementation of the MMMP--the law is the law and we all need to stay w/i it. Police, caregivers and patients alike.
Thanks again, sorry to be so long winded and I a really sorry that discord on our own site has now bled onto yours.
All I can say is, I wish you better luck w/ him than we had and I leave you with just one word to the wise.
Do not feed the trolls.
Richard, we all would have helped you. I had no idea you were a psychiatric patient, but I guess I should have.
PW you sound like a man grounded in reality , I salute.
I see you are prone to perpetuate the slanderous lie that I am a psychiatric patient without one shred of proof, simply because Greg Franscisco has said as much.
In fact, you are one of the people who has consistently hounded me on that forum due to my views. I suppose I can expect many others of your clan to be visiting this Blog in the future. So be it, you will only reveal yourselves for who you truly are.
Perhaps I should begin with the outright slanderous claim that: "Richard is a psychiatric patient in northern MI." Where in you deluded world have you come up with this charge? Where is the proof of this claim? You say you are for helping the sick in Michigan yet you come here and lie about a person, claiming they are a "psychiatric patient"? I may just need to run this incident past my lawyer to see if slander came be charged against you and the organization you represent since you came here as an official representative.
"He is also very well known on a multitude of other cannabis reform sites--the ones that haven't already banned him."
This charge is also false and I believe a thorough search of any one of the sites would prove exactly my contention that you have once again lied in an effort to discredit me publicly. I have registered at three other sites and have not visited them in many months. I may have posted one initial hello greeting if that much and nothing even nearing your claim of "the ones that haven't already banned him"
You see folks, this is what they do to you when you stand in the way of the Billion Dollar profits they wish to generate. This is the type of treatment I endured on that forum because of my opposition. A slew of slanderous lies and innuendo's even from the "Executive Director of the Michigan Medical Marijuana Association, www.MichiganMedicalMarijuana.org"
There are so many lies in this posting from Greg Franscico this morning, it is going to take quite a while to counter each one. Please forgive me for this intrusion and waste of your time but, I feel it is entirely necessary to make things crystal clear.
"This idea that we ran Richard down, hog tied him and forced him to be a moderator on our site is so ludicrous as to defy common sense. Just how would that work anyway? "
I never said that anyone forced me to be a moderator, I said I was declared a moderator by fiat without being asked. I did say I would do my best in that role since I was on the site often.
"I guess you could say that Richard did log on one day and suddenly discover w/o warning that he was a moderator. If he logged on to the site before he checked his e-mail, that is."
I never received such an e-mail until days afterwards, just like when the moderator authority was terminated I never received an e-mail notifying me of the action. You did eventually send an e-mail notifying me of that fact but, it was more than 12 hours after the fact and only when you were called on it due to you having posted this falsehood on the forum.
"His psychosis just kept spinning more and more out of control."
I invite each and every interested person to go to www.MichiganMedicalMarijuana.org, log on (use untraceable e-mail address and name) and review these exchanges that Greg Franscisco speaks about. Many of you know me and my writing style. I was no different there than I am here.
"And then we started getting member complaints about their posts being edited and deleted. Took us a while and some sleuthing to figure out how/who was doing this but all the fingers pointed back to Richard. He of course denied it but computer logs don't lie."
They can claim anything since there is no way for you the reader to validate this claim. There were many who claimed their posts were being deleted but, I did no such thing and for the Executive Director to claim that computer logs don't lie when this entire claim is false is yet one more reason to be distrustful of this organization and the lies he is spewing on this forum about my character.
"The end game played out with his threatening to ban one of our members entirely. The flame wars were raging and one of our members made a comment that was in very poor taste and yet quite appropo--"bickering on an internet forum is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded."
Richard went berserk and in his rant threatened to purge the offender entirely from our site first and then get authorization to do it from the site owners (my partner & I) second."
I fully admit that I did tell the offender that I would ban him and let you decide but, that was after another member complained in that thread that she has a brother who is mentally handicapped and the person in question along with a few others continued to berate this wonderful woman. You neglected to tell my readers what happened next Greg.
See folks I was passionate in my defense of this member, she wrote me in tears, relating to me just how hurtful the comments being made about her were in an e-mail.
I thought this to be a very important matter for the Administration to understand so, I forwarded her e-mail to the Administration. I told them I did not have this individuals permission to be sharing this information but, thought it was important so that this type of situation would never occur on a site supposedly meant to assist sick and disabled people.
The Administration of this site saw fit to post the entire private e-mail for all to read and the only concern expressed was that it called into question the judgement of the site administration for allowing such behavior to occur and go unpunished.
" And then I terminated his moderator privileges."
"So, after posting one more of his highly inflammatory posts in one thread, and getting no response there, he cut & pasted that post on to a more active thread--another thing he had been warned about several times."
Here is the exchange in question
[QUOTE]
Who is going to see the number and why?
Submitted by Richard Owl Mirror on Thu, 02/19/2009 - 17:47. to restorium
http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/node/1407#comment-14227
Isn't that the same question with regards to an address ?
Seriously, I think this argument is ridiculus and the only reason I can see for being worried is if someone wasn't intending on operating within the law.
I truly believe that is the reason behind being against the state having a caregivers address. Perhaps this rule will keep the unscrupulous caregivers from obtaining legal cover under a patients ID card.
Submitted by peanutbutter on Fri, 02/20/2009 - 07:59. to Richard Owl Mirror
http://www.michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/node/1407#comment-14372
Of course it's "ridiculus" for you ..You have no intention of becoming a caregiver.
You also seem to think of caregivers as scum sucking low lifes that deserve every bit of abuse that any system could pass out toward them.
You view caregivers as people that deserve to be hunted down and exposed.
It's nothing to you if a few of them get killed.
[ENDQUOTE]
"In response Richard was given a 3 day suspension (which will elapse on Monday, Feb 23). He has not been banned from our site; that is just one more of his delusions. But now, rather than taking the time out to stop and reflect on how his own out of control behaviors are at the root of his problem he apparently has decided to trash us on other sites."
Yes folks, my out of control behavior consisted of writing an e-mail to a moderator and Greg Franscisco about this vile attack on my character by a personal friend and colleague of Greg Franscisco's and nothing was done about it.
I did re-post this in another thread that Greg had made a plea for the attacks and arguing to stop. It was intended to show that his pleas have gone unheeded by his friends and allies and, that Greg was not doing anything to prevent these occurrences.
"Our forums are crystal clear transparent and open to all comers. Anyone can log on, anyone can read them, anyone can post."
This is true, I encourage people to visit this site and judge for themselves. Of course I do not know what occurred after I departed so many of these issues may have been deleted or as you can see, perhaps even more lies have been written about me after my departure.
In concluding this comment, all I can say is the reader must judge for themselves the merits of my words and actions compared to that of Greg Franscisco and his connection from Las Vegas.
Who has the most to gain, someone who has been ill for 13 years with degenerative disc disease in his neck NOT a psychiatric patient who gets by on Social Security or those who are trying to make Michigan into a Billion dollar Marijuana growing Industry?
You can judge to what lengths these folks are willing to go in protecting their actions. In fact, a member of that forum wrote to me last night, warning me to be very care because my life and safety has been threatened by these folks in private communications.
"You can judge to what lengths these folks are willing to go in protecting their actions. In fact, a member of that forum wrote to me last night, warning me to be very care because my life and safety has been threatened by these folks in private communications."
And I apologize if you are not a psych patient, but after reading that little blurb, you really should be.
I also encourage everyone that reads this blog to come over to MMMA, and read through every single post that ROM was involved in. All you have to do is click on his name,and then click on "Track". You will see for yourself, he has wantonly gone against the grain on every single issue in order to stir up trouble. He did actually succeed for a bit in dividing patients ,and growers, but eventually everyone started to realize that the issues ROM was fanning the flames on had not even occurred yet to be fighting about.
ROM will not admit this , but he also uses multiple usernames. Will you at least admit that ROM? Some of you blog readers will notice a few individuals that jump into his postings in defense of him, then when you cross reference their posts you will see that the only time they do post is in ROM's defense. Joy, Joyce? Hmmm.
The MMMA is a new organization and as such is experiencing "growing pains." Instead of trying to grow WITH the forum you decided to try to bring it down, in the minds of many people.
The guys that think they are going to get rich being a caregiver are almost as delusional as you. REAL patients can't afford the prices they quote. They will have to revert to their old black market ways if they expect to make the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
In any event, Richard, have fun, live life to the fullest and get a grip dood.
Defamation, sometimes called "defamation of character", is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person's reputation.
If a person or the news media says or writes something about you that is understood to lower your reputation, or that keeps people from associating with you, defamation has occurred. Slander and libel are two forms of defamation.
Can I sue someone who says or writes something defamatory about me?
In order to prove defamation, you have to be able to prove that what was said or written about you was false. If the information is true, or if you consented to publication of the material, you will not have a case. However, you may bring an defamatory action if the comments are so reprehensible and false that they effect your reputation in the community or cast aspersions on you. If you have been defamed you may seek both actual damages, to recover the harm that you have suffered, and punitive damages to punish the person who made the remark (and serve as an example to deter others).
Executive Director of the Michigan Medical Marijuana Association, www.MichiganMedicalMarijuana.org said: Richard is a psychiatric patient in northern MI.
You will be hearing from my lawyer on this matter.
Your consistant refrain above reveals you to be Restorium, a moderator of the forum in question. dood
That is patently false, just like your claims that I was deleting your posts.
You really are a piece of work. It is a good thing that you posted your retraction regarding my being a psych patient since i won't include you in the lawsuit which Greg Franscisco will be receiving shortly.
Character. #2 That letter is not signed Greg Fransisco,
#3 you have no job, and no prospects of one, so your ability to make a living is not endangered (which is the usual case for defamation),
#4 You will need money to retain a lawyer, and we all know you are broke living on less than 1000 a month (your words).
#5 The MMMA has no money to speak of, even if you were to actually get a lawyer to stop laughing long enough to sign on with you as soon as they realized that it would be over.
In summary, nice try. I am not a lawyer, but if you feel like wasting what little money you have go for it.
I have taken measures to preserve this evidence of slander and defamation of character, Gather.com has been notified to preserve this evidence as well for the future law suit.
So tell me Dakine, how is it you found out about this entry today?
Is there a public announcement A=@ MMMA forum?
I wonder how much slander and defamation of character might be found in that conversation? Perhaps I should request the AG to review the contents of the website since this now involves a true, verifiable breach of law by the owner and head administrator of that site?
I'll be sure to let you know how this all plays out, IN PUBLIC.
I am very sorry for this most recent display yet, it has proven how powerful some in this community see the financial windfall of medical marijuana.
How one individuals views can be viewed as so dangerous as to warrant such animosity, I'm amazed. Apparently when truth is revealed, those reliant upon it being hidden from the citizens of this state get quite upset and are willing to fight it tooth and nail from being revealed.
This will be the final word on this issue.
Wooly Bear, aka Executive Director of the Michigan Medical Marijuana Association, legal owner of both the URL and the entire MMMA corporation said:
"In response Richard was given a 3 day suspension (which will elapse on Monday, Feb 23). He has not been banned from our site; that is just one more of his delusions."
Yet, this is the message posted online:
Home » Forums » General Information - Please Read First » General Forum Rules
PRIVILEGE DENIED : Richard Owl Mirror
"The person named in the header is denied any further access to this website by unanimous decision of the Board of Directors 2.22.09."
For the Board of Directors - R D Winthrop, Chairman
Is this yet another prime example of talking out of both sides of the mouth?