TESTING TESTING : POLITICAL MISDEEDS SPIKE GATHER RESPONSES

Thanks for posting. The whole situation is ridiculous.

I think the problem comes about on the "whole truth" part. Telling a lie by ommission of fact~ whether honest (?) or not ~ is still a lie ~ great post~j

I wish I had the answer!

The only real truth in politics is, there's no real truth in politics that's not politically expedient. Know it - Accept it - Believe it!

"It's been too long and too many times that our supposedly 'leaders' think they're smarter than the rest of us. If you think this situation, recurring situation, can be fixed, put your suggestions below."

I don't think this situation can be fixed....but the personal accountability of politicians CAN be improved by the constant scrutiny and the 'calling out' of those elected officials by their constituents....both those who voted for another candidate AND those who put them in office.

I think politicians should go through a series of tests that are cheat-proof....no cell phones/blackberries allowed....nothing. Part of the testing is written. Part of it is oral, with no practiced script. (like toastmasters) Most of the testing will be virtual reality type, where they're put into life threatening situations to see how they deal. They should also have everything taken from them and I mean absolutely EVERYthing and survive with NOthing for 6 months. How many do you think would survive on no medical, no insurance, no help from anyone or anything? This is only the beginning of the testing. There's more! One other thing they need to endure and deal with is being stuck in the middle of a room full of nagging, complaining, unhappy, discontent people. Maybe 50 or more and the wannabe politician has to solve each problem within a certain amount of time, while staying calm and keeping his/her sanity.

I don't think it can be fixed without a complete revamp of our political system. In order to reach high office in this country, you have to sell your soul to the highest bidder. The only way to get really honest politicians is to take profit out of the mix. The founding fathers saw political positions as service to the country. They didn't profit by their service. Now, you only have to get elected once to get salary for the rest of your life, free health care, and any number of other perks. Any political system where the participants can vote themselves a pay raise is corrupt. Our political system is corrupt. But the politicians have so much power that we can't change the system without their cooperation -- and these fat cats aren't going to cooperate.

Elise, Mary: You're right, I wouldn't want the job. Small scale politics in organizations I belong to and my small town are enough for me.
Farmer Slim: Good thing we're in America and can talk about these things, eh?
David: I'm not that much of a pessimist, but I did think I was a realist. If that's the case, then there ought to be some percentage of honest politicians out there?? Right?? Please.

The solution is detailed at Invisible Hand.

If that seems too much to read for one little lying politician problem remember that this solution also fixes lots of other problems.

You can find the same solution at

www.nopom.info

One advantage of my solution is that it is permanent, that is, this problem would simply be impossible even if lots of people tried to make it a problem. It would require no enforcement and no punishment of anyone and it would not cost anyone any money.

Our leaders do think they are smarter than most of us. They are also banking on us not paying close attention. If they punish these guys then the new ones that come in will be more careful.

Danielle: That's exactly why I thought Obama missed the chance to make a statement by withdrawing his Treasury Sec'y nominee. It really would have told people he was serious about no more politics as usual, but ...
Larry M: A detailed solution, I can't wait to check it out. Thanks for commmenting everyone.

Sarah, you're right it has been too long ..."It's been too long and too many times that our supposedly 'leaders' think they're smarter than the rest of us."

It's arrogance - aquired along the way, some of it perhaps through privileged education and lives that set them apart from the day they were born. Arrogance - aquired while in office and learning to wheel and deal within the system. They see that most of the time they get away with murder.
Arrogance - and disdain for the welfare of the masses and the laws of this country which do not apply to the Commander in Chief or so Bush thought.

Dianne made a good point, but I believe there is at least a slim chance for improvement while Obama is in office, we may start holding politicians accountable.

I am from IL. They don't call it crook county instead of Cook county for nothing.

The solution?

Complete accountability.
Education on the part of the populace.
Limited journalism - as you can see by Kacie's comments, the sound-byte generation has no clue what is going on, or the implication of actions.

Who put a bug up Kacie's butt?

Who put a bug up Kacie's butt?

Good question.

People tend to think that because the guy they voted for was elected they don't have to watch every move he makes. Well, he's still a politician, making him open to corruption. That is our fatal flaw, we don't pay any attention to politics except at election time.

I believe we need to continue to keep our politicians under close watch and hold their feet to the fire. They need to know that we, the people, who elect them, are holding them to the highest standards. As soon as we decrease our vigilance, corruption will flourish.

I'm with dianne j. I think she has said it all.

If keeping track of the number of phone calls some guy makes to some office is the worst problem we have, we're in clover. Oh well,
Thank you for posting to this group whose only purpose is to thank you for posting to this group, anyhow.

THANKS FOR SHARING...

Is it any wonder that our nation's founding fathers wanted people of character and good moral fiber to be leaders? Politico wannabes should take lessons on ethics and honesty and demonstrate those qualities before running for office. --Joe

Ah, clover!

Sarah, back when Blago said, here is your new junior Senator from Illinois, don't hold it against him that I am a filthy scumbag, i said to myself, hmm, not sure that good can come out of bad in this fashion.

the Burris "memory defect" is helping me think I was right. problem is, the Constitution does not provide a great solution to this situation, and the IL state assembly took too long in getting Blago off the stage by impeaching him.

I think that change will be slow. Our president is working to reform ethics, and he is finding it difficult, because so many in political life do whatever it takes to get to the top. I think that if Obama can clean up Washington, he might be able to bring honesty into style.

Kacie: I didn't take issue with your reply, I'm not behind the bug up comment, but I do think that Patricia and some of the others have a point. Only paying attention at election time means that they can get away with murder otherwise. AND I'm sorry, Ann Weaver Hart, but what about Obama's first three weeks makes you think he's trying to reform ethics. They didn't vote for the guy who's worked tirelessly for reform in that department. And Obama's selections are mostly paybacks or campaign deals, especially the old Clinton folks, which does make one suspicious of Hillary's ever so graceful departure from the race. By the by, it's not the deals I object to, everyone does that, kids, teachers, parents, school boards, etc, it's the lack of honesty about the deals. No one objects to the car salesman's deals, because he's so open about it. If you want to play Monopoly you make deals, but everyone at the table gets to hear the deal.

needs my input? I don't think so ... really not that interested in US politics

All humans are vulnerable to self-delusion. Some are soaking in it.

Politicians don't seem to know what the word truth means these days.
It's just something that highly disappoints me.

What is it Jack said in A Few Good Men. You can't handle the truth?

Too many people don't care about the truth. They care about their own agendas. Why do you think people still insist that Obama is not a U.S. citizen? Forget the fact that the facts say otherwise. They would rather believe elaborate conspiracy theories, because those conspiracy theories (as ridiculous as they are) give justification to their personal agendas.

People see what they want to see...hear what they want to hear. Successful politicians know how to play this.

Echo the "accountability is the answer" sentiment.

I think one of the problems in our society is the concept that it's not a sin until you get caught. Great post.

Sarah thanks for this article and the comments that it has brought forth. There's a lot of simple truths here and I would like to add another, politicians often define 'truth' by their understanding of it based upon the circumstances presented.

And I agree, strenuously, that as public servants, they should be exposed to full accountability. Don't want such scrutiny? Don't take public office.

As this story unfolded, I wasn't surprised. Unfortunately.

Great points here and the comments are almost all totally on board across the political spectrum which is VERY rare.

Burris will get a pass because of his party. It'd be nice to see a reaction from his party but his vote is far more important to them in the Senate than anything like principle. I will also go out on a limb and say he'll get reelected too. Lies are expected from our politicians and he'll bring home enough pork to buy the votes to win.

Who was it said "all power corrupts?"

The ability to always tell the truth is one that unfortunately is very hard to accomplish. As I rode home with my grandchildren yesterday, they asked about a house that burned and how it burned. I know how it burned but I could not tell them. I simply told them that I didn't know. Why? They are too young to understand that some people are too involved in dangerous activities to realize the danger that they place others in. Their dad is one of the same type people as burned in the house they were asking about. They have dealt with way too much in their young lives to worry about whether their biological dad will one day be killed due to his own stupidity.

I know that is an entirely different from the politicians in some ways, but ultimately, it isn't. A lie is a lie. An untruth is still not true. Honesty is still pushed aside regardless of the reason. Each day, I am beginning to believe in the truth of the line in the show House. "Everyone lies"

We just have to find what we can live with saying and believing.

Well, we knew from two millenia ago that humans couldn't tell the truth, but ... I still think that we ought to be able to tell our leaders that we want them to be better, smarter, fairer, etc. Why else are they leaders? If they are only leaders in order to take advantage of us and line their own pockets, we may be stuck, like getting what you pay for.

Sometimes people ask me why my first novel is entitled WHITE LIES. In the book it has to do with the doctors failure to tell the mother that the vaccine caused her son's seizures, out of consideration for what they thought was her inability to understand the complexity of those issues. But their silence caused Lacy to feel guilty for 20 years, thinking she had caused the seizures herself somehow. And the government compensation fund continues to mislead parents by not helping the families with injured children, even when they know that there will be so many injured by bad reactions to the shots.

KD Lovett, here's your point. Are there some lies that are acceptable 'for the greater good' and other lies that aren't?? Who decides? These are questions my philosopher son spends hours talking about in the college classes he teaches. And maybe one thing we'll do more of if this economic mess keeps getting worse, is we'll think more and talk more about some basic ethical principles that need to be imposed on businesses so that there is more honesty and transparency in business and government/regulation.

I agree with you, but what still shocks me is why the big three automakers flew private jets to Washington when they asked for a bailout. Maybe they're so into their ritzy lifestyles they never thought about how the planes would make them appear.
But don't they have savvy secretaries?

You pose good questions, Sarah.

I watched the whistle blower on the Madoff situation on 60 Minutes last night. He blew the whistle 5 times before he was believed. Money rules most of the time. Unfortunately.

Sounds like a good program. I wish I'd known about it. Being hidden away in a sailboat in Florida is great for writing, but not so conducive to keeping up with the news. I may be able to find the information online. The marina does have wireless. Thanks for posting.

I was just about to mention Larry Mason's, INVISIBLE HAND, when I saw he has popped in and mentioned it himself. Yes. He's got the answer.

Thanks for posting your content to the group Whatever!