by Chris W.
Member since:
September 12, 2006

Lincoln rated best President; Bush II not the worst!

February 16, 2009 08:41 AM EST
views: 308 | comments: 42

In keeping with President's Day, a history lesson. See for yourself:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29211562

This survey of historians put Lincoln at the top of the best Presidents list. David K is going to be happy about that, and I think I would agree with it as well. George W. Bush was ranked 36 out of 42, not a great showing. He once said that he would await the judgement of history on his presidency. Well, maybe he will rise a few notches over the next century; memories are too fresh right now and we do perhaps lack objectivity. I suspect he will never make it out of the bottom half.

Top ten: Lincoln, Washington, FDR, T Roosevelt, Truman, JFK, Jefferson, Eisenhower, Wilson, Reagan 

Bottom ten: (from the bottom up) Buchanan, Johnson, Pierce, Harrison, Harding, Fillmore, GWB, Tyler, Hoover, Hayes.

Bush dynasty fans, take note: papa Bush, George H. W. was rated above average. You will find him up there in position # 18.

Where is Obama in this? Well, anyone with a shred of objectivity is going to have to reply: too soon to tell, he has only had a month. Some people out there are busy trying to find a spot for him near the end of the list, but I think that's silly. He will neither be the best nor will he be the worst. I think that making a judgement on ranking a president does not require waiting a century. But we are going to have to wait at least to the end of his term, don't ya think?

 

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Comments: 42

Eric T. Feb 16, 2009, 8:55am EST
Yeah, but I do have that funny feeling history will not be "kind" to GWB. It is fair to say, though, that only time will tell. Despite being on the top 10, public opinion was not behind Truman toward the end of his presidency.
Chris W. Feb 16, 2009, 9:07am EST
it is very true, Eric. I recall that GWB was fond of pointing out that everybody hated Truman at the end of his term, but a rehabilitation took place later on. It was wistful, like, doncha think that could happen to me? GWB, you're no Truman, it needs to be said.
Debra C. Feb 16, 2009, 9:36am EST
As history discovers more of GWBs legacy, it is also possible he will rank lower. The impact of America's last 8 years on the world, economy and foreign relations, is going to take a long time to quantify. His sincerity in this is what makes it sad.
E. M. Feb 16, 2009, 9:42am EST
GWB will always be the my worst President. I agree with Debra (above).
Arian L. Feb 16, 2009, 9:52am EST
very interesting
Chris W. Feb 16, 2009, 10:00am EST
Debra and E.M.-
yes it is also possible that GWB could drop a notch or more. Ironically, that depends partly on how well Obama can deal with the negative legacy of Bush II. If obama is able to improve our financial and international position, it may cause historians to say, gee, Bush II was not so bad, it was fixable. But if we are still trying to crowl out of the hole in the ground years later, not so good for GWB's ratings.
Dave A. Feb 16, 2009, 10:23am EST
Buchanan was the worst because he sat idly by as the nation was ripped apart in the lead-up to the Civil War. Andrew Johnson, the other bookend on Lincoln's tenure, bollixed up reconstruction, and deserves his slot near the bottom of the list.

GWB? There is nowhere to go but down. Pierce and the Kansas-Nebraska Act vs. GWB and senseless war, and torture, and warrantless wiretapping, and extraordinary rendition, and signing statements, and the US Attorneys? Plenty of downside potential for the next poll.
Charles Temm JR Feb 16, 2009, 11:24am EST
Interesting, I never understand how Wilson makes the top 10 considering his list of fallacies but academics do tend to support their own and he was one.

I think you are right about Bush, he'll rise some but will not make it out of the bottom 50%.

Presidents are always being looked at and both Lincoln/FDR have had some serious takings down in the last decade or so.
John S. (arizona) Feb 16, 2009, 11:39am EST
I still think Carter was the worst I've lived through, even next to the latest Bush. Inflation was like double digits, home loans were 13.5%, lay-offs up the ying yang with high unemployment, etc. The Iranian revolution events, desert one, etc. I don't even give him much credit for Israel vs Egyptian peace, instead giving more credit to Sadat who laid his life on the line; and as far as middle east peace with Arafat/Palestine, well hasn't that worked out just dandy....
Has to be a bottom ten for me in performance.
Bush could fall further in the future depending where this economy goes now as well. Started on his watch regardless...
Don(time to open them FEMA camps) S. Feb 16, 2009, 12:14pm EST
Maybe when bush finally is indicted he will then drop to the bottom where he belongs.
Brain W. Feb 16, 2009, 1:09pm EST
LOL LMAO good one John O...you couldn't have said it better...if anyone he would be the best candidate to do so ...
Dan (open minded conservative) K. Feb 16, 2009, 1:14pm EST
I'd like to know what JFK did, other than being shot, that put him in the top ten.

Bay of pigs? Vietnam escalation?

Oh, I know -- his picture on every Irish grandmother's living room.
Paul G. Feb 16, 2009, 1:22pm EST
Hard to believe that "I am not a crook" Tricky-Dick Nixon isn't one of the scum sucking bottom dwellers.

Bush is no better, morally speaking, and he has nothing in the way of tangible accomplishments to recommend him, comparable to Nixon's initiatives regarding China. Bush was easily one of the most incompetent on the list (Katrina), and he stupidly involved the country in a fraudulently-predicated, illegal war that may still have hugely negative consequences, in addition to its extravagent cost. He ranks dead last on my list.
Chris W. Feb 16, 2009, 1:42pm EST
well Dan, where JFK is concerned there was the cuban missile crisis, and the fact that he played it cool when some of his advisors said to pull the trigger.
It is hard to judge him fairly since he did not get a full term.
Dan (open minded conservative) K. Feb 16, 2009, 1:42pm EST
Paul ... as much as Nixon disgraced the office, his administration has some significant accomplishments, including improving relations with China and getting us out of Vietnam. (Contrary to popular opinion, the democrats escalated this mess and the republicans got us out of it -- imagine that!)
Chris W. Feb 16, 2009, 1:43pm EST
Paul, I think that Nixon is in the bottom third somewhere. His paranoia and rank partisanship got him into trouble, it's a shame because he was not a stupid man.
Dan (open minded conservative) K. Feb 16, 2009, 1:44pm EST
Chris, based on your comment, it's not fair to put him in the top ten, either, is it?
Dan (open minded conservative) K. Feb 16, 2009, 1:46pm EST
I can't believe that Carter isn't in the bottom 10. I guess that whoever took this poll likes double-digit inflation, interest rates and unemployment with a side of energy crisis.
Vivian P. Feb 16, 2009, 1:51pm EST
Please read your history folks . Buchanan pushed everything off onto Lincoln it would be very difficult to bump him as worse.
Levin (RUSE the.magazine) Feb 16, 2009, 2:06pm EST
Lincoln is number 1??!!, Didn't many American's die under his orders? Gave their lives for the successful freedom of an oppressed group. Hmm, sounds awfully similar to GW Bush's Presidency? Time will tell
Dan (open minded conservative) K. Feb 16, 2009, 2:09pm EST
Actually, Levin, as much as I've supported Bush, I find it necessary to correct you.

The Civil War was more about states' rights than it was about slavery. This oppressed group was just as oppressed in the north. It just wasn't called "slavery".
L B Feb 16, 2009, 4:49pm EST
JFK is in the top 10,but you liberals wouldn't embrace him the way you do without the myth of Camelot. Presidents that served in times of turmoil were greatly savaged by their opponents while in office only to have their greatness or lack of it galvanized by time. It is no surprise that in the time since Gallup has been doing polls that W. has both the highest and lowest approval ratings for any president.
kelldogg ! Feb 16, 2009, 4:50pm EST
I'm with Paul . . . No Nixon?! Now that's hard to believe!

It doesn't surprise me that "W" made the list, but I'm surprised he wasn't ranked lower. I suppose we got him out of office just in time! Haha!

Considering what a mess Obama came into, I feel that he will be up there with the greatest if he manages to get us out of the hole "W" dug so deeply! Only time will tell though . . .
*LORA* M. Feb 16, 2009, 5:26pm EST
ok
Brian T. Feb 16, 2009, 6:17pm EST
Nice list GW Bush earned is spot near the bottom and it will sink as time moves on. Obama we need to wait at least one entire term before ranking him.
L B Feb 16, 2009, 7:03pm EST
The polls were of intellectuals[sic] in the field of history and politics. My guess is that the majority are very left leaning. It speaks volumes about the fact that Lincoln,the original Republican still ranks 1st and Jimmy Carter (The Worst Hands Down) gets what you'd call a pass in the rankings. W. was a war time president and preserved the rights and freedoms better than other war time presidents: FDR,Lincoln,Wilson. G.W. will be vindicated for the most part. History is a better judge than the blind haters of the left.....you know who you are.
L B Feb 16, 2009, 7:14pm EST
Obama will be down there with Carter. This Neo-Marxist hasn't been on the jib a month and it has been a fiasco. There are so many ways to pick this guy apart on his absolute lack of economic intelligence,it has to be a hatred of freedom both personal and financial. He has lied and flip-flopped. He compares himself to Lincoln,but anyone that pays an ounce of attention to this empty suit knows he is 180 degrees opposed to him. I wonder how much damage Obama and the other 2 dim wits (Reid & Pelosi) will do before you all wake up from the dream.
Chris W. Feb 16, 2009, 7:26pm EST
L.B.- Obama has had a much better education than Lincoln, but is not quite as good an orator. Where Lincoln is concerned, there were many back in the day who said that he was opposed to Freedom- the freedom to own humans. It is a viewpoint thing. Lincoln argued that people deserve the fruits of their labors, even slaves. Obama argues that workers deserve the fruits of their labors, instead of the $ being passed up the ladder to a CEO. There are resemblances.
I think your view is a bit partisan. Reagan and Eisenhower were up near the top of the list, so it would be very inaccurate to accuse the scholars of being totally one-sided.
Amanda "middle of nowhere" C. Feb 16, 2009, 8:29pm EST
I take issue with the rating of Andrew Johnson near the bottom. He had a tough act to follow and a congress that tried to absorb the executive branch of government.
L B Feb 16, 2009, 9:55pm EST
Chris W. --- It is inspite of the scholars that Regan ,Eisenhower and Lincoln are that highly ranked. Those same scholars keep Carter from his rightful spot.. last.
Of course I'm partisan on most issues. Bi-partisanship is extremely over rated. We need to be partisaned,it acts as a governor on the engine of government.
Lisa Gensheimer Feb 16, 2009, 10:39pm EST
I am learning more about President Lincoln every day. Did you see "Looking for Lincoln" on PBS last week?
John S. (arizona) Feb 17, 2009, 6:18am EST
I think JFK is more an emotional favorite with people still living, than based on performance or data of some kind; usually leaving him further up the list than perhaps he should be.
If Krushev(sp?) hadn't blinked during the Cuban Missile Crisis, where do we all think JFK would be on that list?
Dan (open minded conservative) K. Feb 17, 2009, 9:43am EST
If JFK hadn't been killed, he might be closer to the bottom.
Dan (open minded conservative) K. Feb 17, 2009, 9:44am EST
I think we've learned over time that abuse of wealth and power exisits in democrats and republicans. The Kennedy's are a perfect example.
Kevin S. Feb 17, 2009, 2:53pm EST
Dan - as are the Bush's.
Dan (open minded conservative) K. Feb 17, 2009, 3:32pm EST
Kevin, If you believe that GWB abused his power, that's OK. You're not alone. Can you really say that about other members of his family?

By the way, we can agree to disagree about GWB. You think he was abusive. I think he was a wartime president who did what he felt was necessary.
L B Feb 17, 2009, 11:51pm EST
Compare W. to other wartime Presidents and you'll see he did protect the country with fewer infringements on the rights of the people. Save for the wails of the left over the enemies of this country that are on vacation at Gitmo.
Dave A. Feb 18, 2009, 8:56am EST
Dan (open minded conservative) K.: Kevin, If you believe that GWB abused his power, that's OK. You're not alone. Can you really say that about other members of his family?

Grandpa Prescott Bush gave Hitler a boost through his banking efforts. GHWB is arguably tainted by the treasonous arms-for-hostages dealings with Iran in 1980.
Dan (open minded conservative) K. Feb 18, 2009, 11:21am EST
Using examples like that, Dave, you could probably say that every president we've had abused his power.
Dave A. Feb 18, 2009, 12:18pm EST
It's certainly a matter of degree, Dan. For example Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus in places like Maryland vs. GTMO, warrantless wiretaps, renditions, and torture. What's the over-under, ya know?
Charles Temm JR Feb 27, 2009, 2:05pm EST
LB has some very good points about the problems with these polls. The political leaning of many of these academics has been a source of debate for many years.

The level of activity is too often the source of favorable votes, not the relationship to the Constitution or actual results.
Elmer Fudd Nov 21, 2009, 10:40am EST
I guess I would have to agree with the list for the most part. And while I expect Obama to make it to the top half easily, that really depends on him.

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