Who is responsible for the current economic mess? Watch this and you'll find out. It's a short lesson in economics from a well-known conservative Republican and Mother Jones.
Carla, this is a very good video and one that makes me so blasted mad that just had to shut it down for a moment. He has taken us down, he has taken us all down and he should not be allowed to excuse himself from blame.
Karen, hopefully we'll be wiser and smarter from here on out and see this all unfolding before it happens again. By the way, check your mailbox. I just emailed you.
Now the republicans are cutting funding for education and alternative energy.
Folks look at the states that vote republican and have republican senators vs. the blue states. The red states have worse economies, and the worse school systems. Coincidence?
This is all true and I remember when Gramm made his remark about the public being whiners.
Their are also more senators involved in this Like Dodd who is head of the banking commission took more than a million dollars from lobbyists to allow the banking regulations to be removed that protected our money.
Why does this go on and on anyway? These political criminals are never punished its always this stupid hope propaganda when they say vote for me and it will get better.
I would also like to know why these crime lords never have to pay this money back instead of being rewarded by the government for their crimes.
Madoff is another one that is getting away free with the money he stole and its already come out that he will not be paying any money back. So whats a few years in jail when he comes out being rich beyond anyone's wildest dreams.
How can any one person have so much impact... I am impressed that Obama, during his campaign, spoke out against this man and his plans. Obama and his crew knew from where a big chunk of the problem stemmed, huh! Confidently, we can continue under the guidance of the current administration - they are definitely working to keep a steady, productive, healing, hopeful pedal to the metal!! Confidence and trust were mentioned in your link, Carla, let's keep it up - positive energy, love, and light only. Here's to our future!!!!
"Wasn't it Clinton that pushed the way for subprime lending to begin with?"
No, Republicans would like us to think it was, and that FM & FM were at fault for the whole thing, but subprime lending is explained only by the greed of mortgage firms, not the Community redevelopement act, which only said that banks and mortgage companies should no longer engage in redlining of areas that were depressed, and turning down even qualified applicants in those areas. As for FM & FM, they merely played by the same fast and loose rules that were made possible by further deregulation of the financial markets by Bush.
Ron, have you really done your homework on this? You cannot seriously think that banks would have accepted shaky loans - from individuals not even required to give income information or credit ratings if they had not been forced into it by groups like ACORN and community organizers like Obama who said that not doing this made them racist?
There is plenty of blame to go around. Greenspan kept rates artificially low for too long which drove housing up.
Grahm was correct in complaining about a Nation of Whiners. Americans now complain and want government to fix their lives rather than helping themselves. Our Founders would be rolling in their graves
Did not convince me. The melt down started when they left the gold standard and turned it all over to the Bankers via the FED. Ron Paul warned the country years ago about this. He predicted the colapse of FM & FM 8 years before it happened.
It got fuel for the fire when the changed the law back in late 70s or early 80s to allow interstate and intrastate banks.
If you follow history, and actually look, you can track the history of our crisis back a long way. Yes it got a msjor push when Clinton was warned about it, then did nothing, and left it for Bush to handle, but it did not start with him, only one of many segments. Even the Gold and Silver Standards came after this had already started, but was one of many major causes.
Carla, and Col George ... It's all about GREED. No particular law or policy will Force a crisis if the 'movers and shakers' act in good faith. This is just Enron (which Gramm was also into up to his neck) writ larger. These MBAs and experienced Grads of top business schools KNEW they were building a house of cards, but they were raking in the cash while it was going on. Then they walk away with 10s of millions in money that is basically stolen, except they can just shrug and say ... DOH! and laugh all the way to the bank. De-regulation gave them a loophole, but dishonesty led them thru that loophole.
And keep in mind that these were not independent entrepreneurs, but officers of PUBLICLY held corporations entrusted as conservators for the stockholders.
I'm not generally an advocate of Mob Rule ... but there's some folk in this mess who remind me of the old cowboy in court who, when asked "Why did you shoot that feller?" replied, "He needed shootin'."
Colonel, the Fed and the lack of a gold standard, while an admittedly bad thing, has long been a constant, and isn't what directly caused this mess, Bush is. It did aid him mightily in that effort, though, I'll grant you.
Publius, get some balls and own up to your heroe's responsibility in this. Every since the first of just three Republican presidents graced us with his part in accumulating over 70% of our present deficit, you folks have found every excuse in the book to try to deny your responsibility on the inevitable bringing of our country to it's knees. Just a few years back, you folks were trumpeting Bush's turn around of the economy, declaring everything lollipops and roses, and now none of that happened at all, the economy never recovered, and it's all someone else's fault it tanked. Bush deregulation, and the freezing out of State banking regulators is what allowed the bundling of mortgages they knew were bogus, and selling them as financial instruments to other financial concerns. The true cause of the housing bubble, and thereby generating mega bucks in loan fees for mortgage companies, and letting them assume almost none of the risk. I know you all want to blame it all on FM & FM, Bush having set them up to be the scapegoats for any fallout from his deregulation of the mortgage markets, by his feint at regulation, in a congress he owned lock, stock and barrel, but that never even put the bill up for a floor vote, never even passed it through committee, while they were passing everything he proposed like lunch, otherwise, but that limp wristed effort exposes the earnest nature of it (not), in all truth. He was on record before that, as wanting to abolish them for his rich Wall Street cronies, not regulate them, but you probably believe in the Easter Bunny, too. The proof in the pudding is that FM & FM were hardly the only financial giants that found themselves insolvent, or did you think that 700 billion dollar giveaway was all for FM & FM? They merely played by the same fast and loose rules Bush's deregulation (and Gramm's before him) made possible, and like the others, got burned by it, as well. Nice try.
Marilyn M., It is my fondest dream that you, and the Publicless's of this world wake up and realize that just as you would never believe everything you see from liberal blogs and news sources, you should also not believe everything you get from the other end of the spectrum. I didn't get my understanding of this crisis from either, I got it from a sincere desire to understand what really happened to cause this mess. I got it from reading and researching what the truth was or wasn't from each end, and it led me to this understanding. Reread my earlier post, and the one just above Larry's, and you will know what I have been led to believe. Democrats were more than stupid on the FMs, but they had no control of anything at the time, other than making asses out of themselves on the record. Those that held the power, and instituted specific changes in the way our financial and mortgage markets operated, are those that are responsible for our plight, and this deepening depression. Of course, the Mortgage companies that bundled those loans, collected lucrative fees, and didn't disclose the irresponsible tactics they had used to grant those loans to unqualified customers, were ultimately responsible, but they could not have done it without the deregulation that made it possible. I believe, mostly from the transparent CYA maneuver in Congress on regulating the two FMs, this was not only recognized as a possibility, but the BA expected it to happen. Perhaps their experiences with Enron taught them something.
I read about his Gramm months ago after reading about the deregulation bill put forth in 1999. If you remember when Reagan deregulated the savings and loan they collapsed, and then we had another 700 billions cost because of it. I guess they happen at a regular interval to steal money from the people and the treasure.
Gramm's long been a handmaiden to Big Finance. In the 1990s, as chairman of the Senate banking committee, he routinely turned down Securities and Exchange Commission chairman Arthur Levitt's requests for more money to police Wall Street; during this period, the sec's workload shot up 80 percent, but its staff grew only 20 percent. Gramm also opposed an sec rule that would have prohibited accounting firms from getting too close to the companies they audited—at one point, according to Levitt's memoir, he warned the sec chairman that if the commission adopted the rule, its funding would be cut. And in 1999, Gramm pushed through a historic banking deregulation bill that decimated Depression-era firewalls between commercial banks, investment banks, insurance companies, and securities firms—setting off a wave of merger mania.
And yes, Jim and Pelagius, it is about greed. So much of what has happened in this country can be traced back to that, especially over the last eight years. No, it didn't start with George W. but it certainly skyrocketed.
A very interesting video. I firmly believe in checking and researching things for myself. While there are things I don't completely understand, it does show that deregulation has been a major factor in this current meltdown.
"And in 1999, Gramm pushed through a historic banking deregulation bill that decimated Depression-era firewalls between commercial banks, investment banks, insurance companies, and securities firms—setting off a wave of merger mania."
If we do not learn from history, and remember those lessons, we will repeat it, and apparently we are.
Everyone is to blame for the economy - Dems and Republicans. Politicians and average Americans. Greed is to blame. Wanting more than anyone can pay for is to blame. Until everyone admits to that, I don't think it will get fixed.
Marilyn, do you understand that a stimulus bill is to stimulate an economy that is going nowhere but down? When people are losing jobs (3 million they estimate) or are afraid their job may be next--they don't spend money buying cars or other products. As a result, the businesses have to cut back so they lay off more people. There has to be spending on the part of the government at these times. It made a difference during the Great Depression when Roosevelt did it and it is necessary now according to most economists.
Mr. Gramm goes with Republican territory, keeps surfacing like a snake that refuses to die, IMO.
Mentioned by Marilyn above, you remember Pogo's famous: I have seen the enemy and it is us! Capitalism depends on onward and upward efficiency, performance, profits, dividends, share price, more and more sales and consumerism, upward or else. We who thought the party seemed it would never end--Congress, financiers, investors, out-of-control consumers, we all--were hoodwinked and now are paying the piper. Capitalism is set up this way. Can we figure out how to avoid future downturns with even tougher rules and regulations? Can we legislate greed, overspeculation and unwawrranted exhuberant market expectations and performance? Billy Holiday's song: God Bless the Child (That's Got His Own). Tighten your safety belts, it's going to be a rough ride. Let us pray....
Have a spiritual weekend, as pleasant as possible. Aloha,
Revisionist Republican history that attempts to denigrate their responsibility in this depression we now are entering, are just that. Yeah, Dems are clueless too, but Dems had absolutely no power when the policies that caused this were implemented, and they were the policy decisions that caused this, not FM & FM, not Democrats arguing for them, not the Community Redevelopment Act. Deregulation, intentionally instrumented at BA insistence caused the housing bubble credit emergency, which caused our economic collapse. Time to quit lying about it, quit obstructing Obama attempts to save this country, and get the hell out of the way.
Ron, don't you think a lot of this started back in Reagan days? After all, he cut the marginal tax and capital gains tax rate. He also was the first to borrow from the social security fund.
Oh yeah, except there has never been a Social Security fund, considered separate from the general, at least as far as Congress has ever been concerned, so no, he wasn't the first to borrow from SS, but one of many. He may have been the first to do it with the intent of causing it's insolvency, though, thereby allowing him to claim there was a problem that needed addressing, and allowing many changes that curbed the program, set eligability higher, ect. This program was, of course, something that Republicans and their rich masters have hated, every since the FDR Administration implemented it, those many years ago. I believe, if I remember right, his administration started taxing benefits for the first time, as well, further shifting the tax burden from the rich to the not so. Check out "starve the beast" theory, as far as causing insolvency, on that.
1st...Ron W. is a liar. Phil Gramm is the face of the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley bank deregulation bill allowing commercial and investment banks to consolidate,repealing the New Deal-era Glass-Steagall Act that prevented banks from offering customers insurance, investment or commercial banking services. Europe already had this law. Robert Rubin and Larry Summers, Clinton Treasury officials whom Obama relies on for advice, supported it. But Obama made political capitol by attacking it simply because Gramm is a republican. Joe Biden voted for it, it passed the Senate with 90 votes, and President Clinton signed it. But go on and just single out Phil Gramm if it makes you feel better. Isn't it easier to have a boogie man for all your problems instead of having to face the reality that our problems are just a little bit more complex[sic] ???
Carla can choose to believe obscure lefty sites like Mother Jones. The deal with social security hasn't been clear for decades. But many contend that the funding for it has been lumped in with all other revenue streams in terms of spending. Reagan didn't "borrow" from social security. I would be more apt to believe the Heritage Foundation's take on social security than a blogger in a basement.
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Comments: 44
Folks look at the states that vote republican and have republican senators vs. the blue states. The red states have worse economies, and the worse school systems. Coincidence?
Their are also more senators involved in this Like Dodd who is head of the banking commission took more than a million dollars from lobbyists to allow the banking regulations to be removed that protected our money.
Why does this go on and on anyway? These political criminals are never punished its always this stupid hope propaganda when they say vote for me and it will get better.
I would also like to know why these crime lords never have to pay this money back instead of being rewarded by the government for their crimes.
Madoff is another one that is getting away free with the money he stole and its already come out that he will not be paying any money back. So whats a few years in jail when he comes out being rich beyond anyone's wildest dreams.
Can someone give me the gist of it.
No, Republicans would like us to think it was, and that FM & FM were at fault for the whole thing, but subprime lending is explained only by the greed of mortgage firms, not the Community redevelopement act, which only said that banks and mortgage companies should no longer engage in redlining of areas that were depressed, and turning down even qualified applicants in those areas. As for FM & FM, they merely played by the same fast and loose rules that were made possible by further deregulation of the financial markets by Bush.
Grahm was correct in complaining about a Nation of Whiners. Americans now complain and want government to fix their lives rather than helping themselves. Our Founders would be rolling in their graves
It got fuel for the fire when the changed the law back in late 70s or early 80s to allow interstate and intrastate banks.
Even the Gold and Silver Standards came after this had already started, but was one of many major causes.
And keep in mind that these were not independent entrepreneurs, but officers of PUBLICLY held corporations entrusted as conservators for the stockholders.
I'm not generally an advocate of Mob Rule ... but there's some folk in this mess who remind me of the old cowboy in court who, when asked "Why did you shoot that feller?" replied, "He needed shootin'."
Publius, get some balls and own up to your heroe's responsibility in this. Every since the first of just three Republican presidents graced us with his part in accumulating over 70% of our present deficit, you folks have found every excuse in the book to try to deny your responsibility on the inevitable bringing of our country to it's knees. Just a few years back, you folks were trumpeting Bush's turn around of the economy, declaring everything lollipops and roses, and now none of that happened at all, the economy never recovered, and it's all someone else's fault it tanked. Bush deregulation, and the freezing out of State banking regulators is what allowed the bundling of mortgages they knew were bogus, and selling them as financial instruments to other financial concerns. The true cause of the housing bubble, and thereby generating mega bucks in loan fees for mortgage companies, and letting them assume almost none of the risk. I know you all want to blame it all on FM & FM, Bush having set them up to be the scapegoats for any fallout from his deregulation of the mortgage markets, by his feint at regulation, in a congress he owned lock, stock and barrel, but that never even put the bill up for a floor vote, never even passed it through committee, while they were passing everything he proposed like lunch, otherwise, but that limp wristed effort exposes the earnest nature of it (not), in all truth. He was on record before that, as wanting to abolish them for his rich Wall Street cronies, not regulate them, but you probably believe in the Easter Bunny, too. The proof in the pudding is that FM & FM were hardly the only financial giants that found themselves insolvent, or did you think that 700 billion dollar giveaway was all for FM & FM? They merely played by the same fast and loose rules Bush's deregulation (and Gramm's before him) made possible, and like the others, got burned by it, as well. Nice try.
It is my fondest dream that you, and the Publicless's of this world wake up and realize that just as you would never believe everything you see from liberal blogs and news sources, you should also not believe everything you get from the other end of the spectrum. I didn't get my understanding of this crisis from either, I got it from a sincere desire to understand what really happened to cause this mess. I got it from reading and researching what the truth was or wasn't from each end, and it led me to this understanding. Reread my earlier post, and the one just above Larry's, and you will know what I have been led to believe. Democrats were more than stupid on the FMs, but they had no control of anything at the time, other than making asses out of themselves on the record. Those that held the power, and instituted specific changes in the way our financial and mortgage markets operated, are those that are responsible for our plight, and this deepening depression. Of course, the Mortgage companies that bundled those loans, collected lucrative fees, and didn't disclose the irresponsible tactics they had used to grant those loans to unqualified customers, were ultimately responsible, but they could not have done it without the deregulation that made it possible. I believe, mostly from the transparent CYA maneuver in Congress on regulating the two FMs, this was not only recognized as a possibility, but the BA expected it to happen. Perhaps their experiences with Enron taught them something.
I guess they happen at a regular interval to steal money from the people and the treasure.
Gramm's long been a handmaiden to Big Finance. In the 1990s, as chairman of the Senate banking committee, he routinely turned down Securities and Exchange Commission chairman Arthur Levitt's requests for more money to police Wall Street; during this period, the sec's workload shot up 80 percent, but its staff grew only 20 percent. Gramm also opposed an sec rule that would have prohibited accounting firms from getting too close to the companies they audited—at one point, according to Levitt's memoir, he warned the sec chairman that if the commission adopted the rule, its funding would be cut. And in 1999, Gramm pushed through a historic banking deregulation bill that decimated Depression-era firewalls between commercial banks, investment banks, insurance companies, and securities firms—setting off a wave of merger mania.
If we do not learn from history, and remember those lessons, we will repeat it, and apparently we are.
It certainly won't be fixed by the spending bill.
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?memberId=85682&articleId=281474977587644&nav=MyGather
Mentioned by Marilyn above, you remember Pogo's famous: I have seen the enemy and it is us! Capitalism depends on onward and upward efficiency, performance, profits, dividends, share price, more and more sales and consumerism, upward or else. We who thought the party seemed it would never end--Congress, financiers, investors, out-of-control consumers, we all--were hoodwinked and now are paying the piper. Capitalism is set up this way. Can we figure out how to avoid future downturns with even tougher rules and regulations? Can we legislate greed, overspeculation and unwawrranted exhuberant market expectations and performance? Billy Holiday's song: God Bless the Child (That's Got His Own). Tighten your safety belts, it's going to be a rough ride. Let us pray....
Have a spiritual weekend, as pleasant as possible. Aloha,
Phil Gramm is the face of the 1999 Gramm-Leach-Bliley bank deregulation bill allowing commercial and investment banks to consolidate,repealing the New Deal-era Glass-Steagall Act that prevented banks from offering customers insurance, investment or commercial banking services. Europe already had this law. Robert Rubin and Larry Summers, Clinton Treasury officials whom Obama relies on for advice, supported it. But Obama made political capitol by attacking it simply because Gramm is a republican. Joe Biden voted for it, it passed the Senate with 90 votes, and President Clinton signed it.
But go on and just single out Phil Gramm if it makes you feel better. Isn't it easier to have a boogie man for all your problems instead of having to face the reality that our problems are just a little bit more complex[sic] ???