Limbaugh, Franken, McCain and the Boehner Boys

Hopefuly Franken will be back in the news when Coleman wins the senate seat. Last thing this country needs is a partisan hack like Franken.

That's politics as usual.

Instead of a concerted effort to resurrect the economy I see partisan poseurs smiling at the cameras. What the heck is going on? Beats me!

when Coleman wins the senate seat

Your dreaming.

Part of it as you note is posturing. The Dems want one thing, the Repubs another but both will work together once the proper observances are made. It'd be nice if the Repubs/conservative Dems had gotten a spine donor but I doubt they really got one. They will roll over once the proper pork is distributed to them too.

Obama is smiling because he's a good actor. He got sandbagged on both foreign and domestic fronts, none of which was supposed to happen. Iran and Germany are not falling over like they should (Iran on wanting more "apologies", Merkel saying bailouts for the Big 3 are industrial subsidies and tantamount to tariff increases). Domestically public support for the stimulus plan is declining as stand up comedians are laughing about a different part of it every day. The Repubs for the moment are not bowing to his charm and the market is all over the place. His highlighting talk radio as the enemy didn't do more than as you point out give Limbaugh free publicity.

As for Franken, that mess is so dirty that it needs to be redone. You can't realistically think that every vote 'found' is for him. But there it is and of course it's not dirty because the "winner" so far is the one the reigning party wants.

I don't know if its more than a hiccup but the president got a wake up that it won't be easy even for him to just do anything.

With the party vote it sounds like business as usual, or maybe the Repubs wanted to set the symbolic tone that they're going to be the Loyal Opposition.

"Hopefuly Franken will be back in the news when Coleman wins the senate seat. Last thing this country needs is a partisan hack like Franken."

Coleman isn't partisan, Mickey?

"That's politics as usual."

Is it, Gary? Or is it something so different that nobody has caught on yet?

"when Coleman wins the senate seat"

Actually Jerry, that is still possible. The differential is only 225 votes, which really isn't a lot when you figure there are thousands of votes that were "disputed."

In the end, it will be either Franken or Coleman. I'm not sure it makes much difference in the long run, despite the huge gulf in ideology between them. In part because Franken's far left liberalism would be at least somewhat balanced by reality, and Coleman's slightly more moderate than far right conservatism would definitely be moderated by reality. We'll see.

"Part of it as you note is posturing."

Can't disagree with you there, Charles. Most important votes, especially in the House, are all about posturing for the next election.

Lessee....most of the contested votes between Franken/Coleman were shown on the web and any one of us could look at them, can't get too more transparent than that. Coleman is now trying to argue the same arguements that he argued the other side when he was on top. Hmmm...but then again, Franken is intelligent, humorous, knowledgeable and all of those attributes are usually put down in con circles.
Why is Obama smiling? He got more work done in 8 days that chimpy did in 8 years! He went out of his way to speak to the repugs and they tried to slap his hand....ok, guess they just showed their hand. He has the ratings on the polls, and again, the intellectual ability to stay above the riff raff.
Oh, and on Merkel? First I think we should have protective tariffs, but also, Germany has one of the best state insurance available(France rates #1). So, maybe that's the only way we can do both--will agree with Merkel and change our archaic health care system to single payer....or, even better, universal health care.

"They will roll over once the proper pork is distributed to them too."

You're two for two, Charles. It's all about kissing up to the people back in the home district. Thank heavens we have the Senate.

"Obama is smiling because he's a good actor. He got sandbagged on both foreign and domestic fronts, none of which was supposed to happen. Iran and Germany are not falling over like they should (Iran on wanting more "apologies", Merkel saying bailouts for the Big 3 are industrial subsidies and tantamount to tariff increases). Domestically public support for the stimulus plan is declining as stand up comedians are laughing about a different part of it every day. The Repubs for the moment are not bowing to his charm and the market is all over the place. His highlighting talk radio as the enemy didn't do more than as you point out give Limbaugh free publicity."

Well, I agree that Obama might be a good actor. But do you really think he got sandbagged? Tell me, do you really think he is that naive?

"As for Franken, that mess is so dirty that it needs to be redone. You can't realistically think that every vote 'found' is for him. But there it is and of course it's not dirty because the "winner" so far is the one the reigning party wants."

I would guess it's only "dirty" because Franken ended up ahead. With the vote so close, it's within the margin of "screwed up ballots" that normally wouldn't matter. Kind of like Bush's first election in 2000.

"I don't know if its more than a hiccup but the president got a wake up that it won't be easy even for him to just do anything."

And yet, I would suggest that the President was never sleeping. Consider it.

"With the party vote it sounds like business as usual, or maybe the Repubs wanted to set the symbolic tone that they're going to be the Loyal Opposition."

Yes...and yes.

Centrists all over the country are speaking their minds. Congress will continue to cut these bad line items, with a smile on their face.

It may take two times around the track, like the bailout, but partisans take it (and like it).

Hi, David. Obama's week was just fine with me. He's a doer, not a blow-hard.

Cool icon, Julia.

"Hmmm...but then again, Franken is intelligent, humorous, knowledgeable and all of those attributes are usually put down in con circles."

Okay, this is probably true. But I just can't get past him on SNL. Luckily I don't live in Minnesota (not that Minnesota isn't a cool [very cool] place to live; I have friends that live in Minnesota; I changed planes in the Twin Cities a time or too)

:)

"Why is Obama smiling? He got more work done in 8 days that chimpy did in 8 years!"

I'm not sure that is true, assuming by "Chimpy" you mean G.W. Bush. Where did Chimpy come from anyway? I don't get it.

"He went out of his way to speak to the repugs and they tried to slap his hand....ok, guess they just showed their hand."

Hmmm

Oh, what's a repug? Is that like one of those dogs that has been cloned? I think I saw that in the movie "Total Recall" (if I remember correctly).

"Oh, and on Merkel? First I think we should have protective tariffs, but also, Germany has one of the best state insurance available(France rates #1). So, maybe that's the only way we can do both--will agree with Merkel and change our archaic health care system to single payer....or, even better, universal health care."

Sorry, you lost me. You said Merkel and my mind jumped to the time when Bush gave her an impromptu shoulder rub at a meeting of world leaders, and she came "this" close to filing a sexual harrassment lawsuit. [Note to Obama, the hand on the shoulder or forearm is probably okay, but watch the shoulder rubs]

David,

The Republicans are afraid to be part of a solution they rightly think will be credited to Obama. They must,, as Rush does, hope for a failure, preferably of monumental proportions. Also, if they do cooperate on this bill, they will be voting against the policies they supported for many years. They will either be a "traitor" to their "conservative" base or confessing that they were wrong all those years. So I can easily understand the Republicans refusing to cooperate in crafting legislation to help us out of the mess.

As to why Obama might be smiling I couldn't be sure. Part of it is that he will not have to compromise as much with the Republicans refusing to participate. Part might be that if the Republicans vote against everything he does and it works, the Republican party could suffer another generational eclipse.

Maybe his daughters like their school?

"Centrists all over the country are speaking their minds. Congress will continue to cut these bad line items, with a smile on their face."

Centrists speaking their minds? Let me think about that one.

As for cutting the bad line items, I think it is likely that there will be way too many bad line items that make the cut. But yes, there are lots of "bad line items" inserted for "political withdrawal." This is the game.

I'm so tired of politics I could scream! I think they are all nuts and we should get rid of them and start over again. Do you think someone could throw a large gas bomb into the House, Senate and White House when they are all there and get rid of all our politicians so we can start fresh? Just kidding, of course! Maybe instead of a gas bomb, we need to come up with a "love" potion so everyone can get along! Hee Hee Hee!

"It may take two times around the track, like the bailout, but partisans take it (and like it)."

Okay, you lost me on this one too. I must be sleepy.

"Hi, David. Obama's week was just fine with me. He's a doer, not a blow-hard."

Well, Julia, I suspect he could be both, or neither, or one or the other.

"The Republicans are afraid to be part of a solution they rightly think will be credited to Obama."

Actually, Larry, I think it's more fundamental than that. I think they just want to be reelected.

"They must,, as Rush does, hope for a failure, preferably of monumental proportions."

This is so sad because it is true, as the Democrats were when Bush was in office.

As centrists, I include all the writers of Gather that fall into the category of progressive. I have yet to see one that defends the entire package as it is now written.

"Also, if they do cooperate on this bill, they will be voting against the policies they supported for many years."

I'm not sure I get this one. The Bush Administration (like the Reagan Administration) oversaw the largest increase in government and increase in national debt that this country has ever seen. The Republicans historically have violated the Constitution (starting with my favorite President, Lincoln), increased debt (again, starting with Lincoln), and increased the size and power of the Federal government (again, starting with Lincoln), yet constantly say they are for "smaller government" and "fiscal responsibility." Which would be great, if it there was any truth to it.

"As to why Obama might be smiling I couldn't be sure. Part of it is that he will not have to compromise as much with the Republicans refusing to participate. Part might be that if the Republicans vote against everything he does and it works, the Republican party could suffer another generational eclipse."

Okay, I'll give a little hint...cocktail parties, private meetings, public meetings, partisan vote.

Partisans know the score. They never get what they want out of the process, but the party platforms never move away from all the things they know they won't get.

Centrists get what they want, compromise and moderation. Partisans never win, and yes, they smile big.

"Maybe his daughters like their school?"

Well, I'm sure he would be happy with that, but I don't really think his daughters should be discussed. Family is off limits, in my opinion.

"I'm so tired of politics I could scream!"

There are days I feel like screaming also.

"I think they are all nuts and we should get rid of them and start over again."

But then, we did reelect most of them, as we always do. So I guess we have to take the fall for this one.

"Do you think someone could throw a large gas bomb into the House, Senate and White House when they are all there and get rid of all our politicians so we can start fresh? Just kidding, of course!"

[Note to Secret Service and residual Bush wire tappers...she was just kidding.]

If partisans didn't help write the legislation, how would we know which parts to moderate?

David,

The policies the Republicans have supported for years advocate increasing the debt almost without limit. The aspect of their policies that I was in reference to was their policy of avoiding doing anything to help the poor. They get their money from the rich and their party line was that we must stop welfare for the poor but give lots of welfare to the rich. Trickle down economics for example and the various bailouts of the wealthy corporations. Personal responsibility for a problem requires that the poor take care of themselves. The national good demands that when the rich make a mess of things we help them out with lots of money.

"Maybe instead of a gas bomb, we need to come up with a "love" potion so everyone can get along! Hee Hee Hee!"

Do you really want to give a love potion to Congress, I mean, given the Larry Craigs and the Mark Foley's and the Tim Mahoney's (what is in the water in that Florida district, anyway) and the few hundreds who are more discrete?

"As centrists, I include all the writers of Gather that fall into the category of progressive. I have yet to see one that defends the entire package as it is now written."

Actually, Tim, I have seen Gatherites who think Obama can do no wrong, and who do think anything goes with the stimulus package. Usually they are people who haven't actually read it, or thought about it...but then, that also includes people who are totally opposed to it.

In the end, this is less about liberalism or conservatism or centrism, as it is about thinking. Something I personally would like to see a lot more of.

"Partisans know the score. They never get what they want out of the process, but the party platforms never move away from all the things they know they won't get."

But Tim, do you think Boehner and crew don't think they got what they wanted? They "stood firm" against the Democratic bill. Do you think Pelosi and crew didn't get what they wanted? They got the stimulus package passed by the House. Do you think Obama didn't get what he wanted?

Seems everyone got what they wanted. Well, everyone except the American people.

"Centrists get what they want, compromise and moderation. Partisans never win, and yes, they smile big."

I'm not sure centrists got what they wanted, since most of the Democrats in the House voted for a pork-laden bill and all of the Republicans voted against it because it, well, because it was a Democratic-controlled Congress. And there are a lot of people smiling, well, like stupid people smile. But then there are some cunning smart people smiling too. The trick is telling them apart.

"If partisans didn't help write the legislation, how would we know which parts to moderate?"

Umm, wouldn't it be easier for the moderates to write the legislation and either persuade the partisans to sign up, or make it public why they didn't?

"The policies the Republicans have supported for years advocate increasing the debt almost without limit."

Okay, this is a salient point. The Democrats get flack for raising taxes, but taxes are "pay as you go." The Republicans prefer "put it on the credit card" with the assumption that the economy will grow enough to cover the interest payments. History shows us clearly that the "credit card" method doesn't work. Not that I'm in favor of raising taxes. It seems to me we should go the third route - accountability for the money we spend.

"The aspect of their policies that I was in reference to was their policy of avoiding doing anything to help the poor. They get their money from the rich and their party line was that we must stop welfare for the poor but give lots of welfare to the rich. Trickle down economics for example and the various bailouts of the wealthy corporations. Personal responsibility for a problem requires that the poor take care of themselves. The national good demands that when the rich make a mess of things we help them out with lots of money."

There isn't much I can add to this, Larry. The "Republican" concept is "trickle down." Feed the rich and they create jobs that hire the poor and all is good with the world. And besides, if you aren't rich it means you are lazy. The "Democratic" concept is "you can't abandon the poor." Feed the poor and they will get jobs and make companies money and all is good with the world. Except neither theory works in practice. Feeding the rich is why the average CEO to worker ratio has climbed from 17 to 1 up to well over 300 to 1. Sorry, if there is no other statistic you look at, look at that one and tell me with a straight face that trickle down works. Feeding the poor is, well, think of "give a man a fish...versus...teach a man to fish" and you'll see why that theory fails in practice. We need to teach people how to be self-sufficient and hold them accountable to do so, while not forgetting that not everyone has the same historical and situational head-start as others. I believe it's called thinking, which essentially by definition negates partisanship.

The centrists have not won the debate with Congress, certainly not at this point.

Give it time.

"The centrists have not won the debate with Congress, certainly not at this point."

Just out of curiosity...can you suggest a time period in which the Centrists have "won the debate?" (This is a serious question)

Great post David. I am going to give Obama a chance to do his job. As far as John Boehner, I saw him on Meet the Press. I do not like him. Not a team America player in my book.. Very depressing. Same old stuff. They must keep their own money flowing.. Same old rhetoric..Hopefully after eight years of this awful leadership, many have been "awakened", and now know who got what, and what was a lie. They have learned the war in part was a diversion for some of the nastiest, dirty, self serving politics this country has ever seen. With our Military spilling blood...

WE have to change. I would hope this country demands that the Republicans stop thinking of themselves, and get on with helping this country versus looking for a fight. They had their chance, they did nothing for us, and now they at least have the means to grow up, forget their wallets and great jobs, and put our Homeland first and foremost in their minds. I wondered why they are so argumentative, and now I know why, they have not heard NO! "It is gonna be this way, not YOUR way," for over eight years..And that John Boehner, I cannot stand him. I respect his position, but please. How dated is his thinking? IF he was so worried about money why did he not follow the millions spent on the war? The lives that were lost due to shoddy equipment.. Those guys/gals, are ours!!!!

They destroyed in eight years so much good. Tore up the budget, opened the door to many policies that will hurt us, (like Artic Drilling-GWB's Last defiant act) and stood by and did nothing as we were falling in favor around the world, losing our homes and buisiness's. There is no way their projectionists did not know a lot of this, and they do want Obama to fail.. This post has great comments, by intelligent and caring people, and I want to say more, but I will be here till in the morning. So I hope Obama has the support he needs from us, and they come around, because now, "DIVIDED WE FAIL" is very true.. The old ways failed, and that is that..The Republicans need to do as they said, (they do lie) and work with him, therefore, maybe they will be again working for us.. Obama did say he would listen to them.. And what about Americans who lived out here in the real world the last eight years? Do you think they rememeber us??? Thanks again for a great post. Ellen B

There'a a chance that Franken's nonchalant, seemingly disinterested attitude could still do him in...........CHECK IT OUT.......

"As far as John Boehner, I saw him on Meet the Press. I do not like him. Not a team America player in my book.. Very depressing. Same old stuff. They must keep their own money flowing.. Same old rhetoric..Hopefully after eight years of this awful leadership, many have been "awakened", and now know who got what, and what was a lie."

I always thought that being a leader meant leading. But apparently it means being head cheerleader, even when your team sucks. (Of course, some say the same thing about Pelosi)

"With our Military spilling blood..."

We often forget that Americans are spilling blood for us. In light of that fact, it would seem that we would want to take our jobs much more seriously.

"WE have to change."

For those who think we don't, think honestly about the last 8 years.

"They [the Republicans] had their chance, they did nothing for us,..."

Now we will see whether the Democrats learned from the Republican mistakes.

"So I hope Obama has the support he needs from us, and they come around, because now, "DIVIDED WE FAIL" is very true..."

Reality suggests otherwise. But there are sometimes leaders.

"There'a a chance that Franken's nonchalant, seemingly disinterested attitude could still do him in...........CHECK IT OUT....... "

Despite the fact that the article you link is completely inane, any reasonable person would agree that of course there is a chance that Coleman could end up the winner. But it has nothing to do with whether Franken is freezing his butt off or being like a normal person and catching some rays for a few days during the bloody cold Minnesota winter. It has everything to do with whether Coleman can make a persuasive legal case for overturning the election board's certification of Franken's win. It helps to think logically.

:)) I just got that David, I think, about the "divided we fail" thing I said, and what you said:) You also have a very good point.. Ellen B

I have to say right now that I really don't care anymore, I don't care why who is smiling, I don't care why who isn't smiling, I don't trust O'Bama, and I don't trust McCain, who may realize he lost the election and Republicans swung to the left because he was to liberal. I don't trust Barry Soetoro, AKA Barack Obama. I have and will continue to email my dislike for Barry every day that he is in office, I'm sure I can find something to tell him I don't like, and If I can't I'll tell him to show me his REAL birth certificate....I just don't care anymore, I voted, my vote didn't count, so now I'm considered unAmerican and racist because I didn't vote for Obama and don't stand for HIS Change.......I think he's hiding something.
Mooch

So, David, are you saying that Franken's "flying south for the winter" and Coleman's "sticking to home and braving the cold" behaviors won't make some difference in the long run??........

well he has been in for not quite two weeks and although he inherited a mess I think he is smiling because he knows he is willing to bring in the best of the best and listen to them and who needs a scowling leader. He doesn't let the negative bashing get under his skin because if he did he would not be able to concentrate on the tremendous task at hands.

I never liked W, I admit it freely. I dealt with him as governor of my state and the mess he made in that job ...which is kind of hard to mess up since it is mostly a figurehead, little power position. But when he took office I gave him a fair chance. I gave him a fair chance when he took hours on end on 9/11 to address the nation, I gave him a chance when we invaded Afghanistan, but the day they uttered Iraq to the public I was disgusted and watched everything crumble after that. But I did give him a chance. And I choose to believe in Obama and that he will do what is best for this country.

The principle factor n the stimulus vote on the part of the many Republicans is known as representation cowardice. They knew that it would pass the house without them thereby negating any real need to consider the actual merits of the bill and hopefully giving them deniability if there is a failure.

To have worked in their own ideas as they were invited to do would have put them at risk and it's always easier and safer to throw stones at the other party than it is to do something constructive and having it fail. At this point, no one knows just what will work, if anything, so there is risk to action. However, they could be bitten by the risk of inaction and disapproval of that.

The Republican lack of spine was probably taught to them by the Democratic majority who gave Bush the funding he requested and the surveillance legislation he requested. Plenty of that for both parties!

Mooch,

McCain was too liberal so the Republicans switched to Obama? Let me get this straight, they didn't like liberal so the went even more liberal? Does that sum it up? Works for me!

If I understand her point (which I probably don't), I think Mooch might have something there, James. It is almost like the GOP decided that, instead of making the election about Republicans against (or as opposed to) Liberals, they tried to put McCain in there to attract the Liberally-minded away from the DNP. But ended up alienating themselves from the Conservative voters they should have been focusing on.....

.........or something like that.......

McCain is laughing hard in private. "Here is why Jesus Christ would not win in November were he the republican nominee." I did not vote McCain because of the Limbaughs and other clowns other republicans think we should get instructions from.

Obama is making the GOP a regional party. He is pushing them further and further to the right. He gets out there acting like he wants bipartisanship, make sure the cameras follow him when he already knew that house republicans will not vote for it and expect to win in their districts. The stimulus will be modified as a result. Now if it works Obama will take all the credit. If it does not he will say he modified it because of republicans.

There's a new sheriff in town. I'm just gonna sit here quietly with my back to the wall and see what those old Republican cowboys are gonna do. Some are holding good cards; but who's dealing?

Good banter going on here.
..
U

President Obama is smiling because he is winning, and will continue to win.

It is possible that the Republican Party will find an anti-regulation Capitalist with the Hate/Fear slinging skills of Palin and win back the non voting Republicans of the last election.

There was no vote switching by Republicans or self defined independents.
(Independent=Republicans who hate the bible thumping pro-lifer, prayer/creation teaching in public school illiterates)

Interesting discussion, but David K, I see the usual right wing nut devotees of Savage, Hannity, Beck, Ingram, Limbaugh,, and all the rest. They have no original thoughts, and only and always say what they have been told to think. It always makes me --smirk & giggle--- when they comment. Do they think we don't notice the sameness of what they say week after week, changing only as the AM Talk topic changes?

Obama is smiling because Limbaugh is now the face of the GOP. The leader. Can you imagine. People in that party take Limbaugh more seriously than McCain or any other congressman.

David, I have another take. I think the White and both Houses of Congress are scared s--- less that they may not be able to fix what is broken in our economy.

The President showed his inexperience when he let Pelosi put together "his" "stimulus" bill, and he got his name attached to a porker that won't stimulate anything. Pelosi showed her arrogant ineptitude when she let the Republicans off the hook by shutting them out of the process.

Now, it is left to Reid to come up with a bill that will pull the President's, Pelosi's, and the country's chestnuts out of the fire. But, there are a number of Senators from both sides of the aisle who are sure the present bill won't help the country, and not so sure they know what will.

I look for a "Gang of ??" to be formed to avoid a Reid-led partisan debacle and give the Senate version of the bill their best shot on a bi-partisan basis. For the sake of the country, I hope they are successful.

Forget it Randy,
Limbaugh, Savage, Hannity, Levine, Beck, Ingram; ALL of them have been haranguing the Republicans to vote no on anything from the Democrat party.

They are all still mad about the Bush "Rebublican" Bank bail bill.

"So, David, are you saying that Franken's "flying south for the winter" and Coleman's "sticking to home and braving the cold" behaviors won't make some difference in the long run??........"

Berf, why on earth would it mean anything? Seriously. The election was about 3 months ago. The mandatory recount was completed a month ago. Franken was certified the winner by the election board AFTER the recount. And now it is in the hands of the lawyers to make their respective cases, which they have begun to do. Actually it is in the hands of Coleman's lawyers to make the case, since Franken has already officially won by the election board certification.

I'm not saying that Coleman couldn't still win this thing, or that he doesn't have a right to contest. He still might win it (225 votes isn't a lot to have to change) and he absolutely does have the right to contest it. That's the law. So the process continues until all challenges are exhausted and one of them "wins" and the other doesn't.

Does it matter where either Franken and Coleman are at any point in this? Of course not. Can they take well deserved vacations? Is it allowable for them to breathe? Eat? Move from room to room without somebody trying to create some grand conspiracy out of every little step they make or don't make?

That would be silly, don't you think?

"The principle factor n the stimulus vote on the part of the many Republicans is known as representation cowardice. They knew that it would pass the house without them thereby negating any real need to consider the actual merits of the bill and hopefully giving them deniability if there is a failure."

Well, clearly they knew it would pass anyway since the Democrats have the vast majority, so yes, they get to have their cake and eat it too.

"To have worked in their own ideas as they were invited to do would have put them at risk and it's always easier and safer to throw stones at the other party than it is to do something constructive and having it fail."

Actually, they did work in their own ideas. Despite the propaganda, Obama and Pelosi did reach out to Republicans, did adjust the package to meet some of their priorities, and did give them a lot of what they wanted. Not everything, of course, which isn't surprising since their priorities were essentially the same as the last 8 years, and we saw how well that worked out.

"The Republican lack of spine..."

I would argue that it is less the lack of spine (politicians on both sides aren't known for their spinal fortitude), but lack of constructive thought. Political posturing remains the rule, especially in the House.

If only we the public would become informed enough to allow them to think instead of pander to us. Alas.

"I have to say right now that I really don't care anymore, I don't care why who is smiling, I don't care why who isn't smiling,..."

Well Mooch, you should care. This is our country. Though there are plenty of other countries if you prefer to live elsewhere. This one, however, requires taking a little public responsibility.

"I don't trust O'Bama, and I don't trust McCain, who may realize he lost the election and Republicans swung to the left because he was to liberal. I don't trust Barry Soetoro, AKA Barack Obama."

Okay, in addition to your blatant bigotry and attempts to demean by your use of misspellings and alternative names, this makes absolutely no sense by any person's logic. Please explain how in any plane of existence the Republicans would vote liberal because their own candidate was too liberal. ??

"I have and will continue to email my dislike for Barry every day that he is in office, I'm sure I can find something to tell him I don't like, and If I can't I'll tell him to show me his REAL birth certificate...."

The very fact that you can't inform yourself enough to still talk about this as if it were meaningful perhaps explains the lack of sense in most of the rest of what you say.

"I just don't care anymore, I voted, my vote didn't count..."

As noted, you should care, unless of course you don't care about this country. As for your vote not counting, I'm surprised that you seem to not understand basic civics. Especially after Bush's first election when he lost the popular vote to Gore but won the election on the electoral count (and the Supreme Court vote). Given that in 2004 the election was again decided by the electoral count in one key state. Given nearly 2 years of constant campaigning for this election. One would think all of that might educate you at least slightly.

"so now I'm considered unAmerican and racist because I didn't vote for Obama and don't stand for HIS Change..."

So you're saying there is a general consensus that you are unAmerican and racist? Do you have any idea how people might have come to that conclusion? Certainly no one would think you are unAmerican and racist just because you didn't vote for him - 46%+ of the country didn't vote for him, and you have to figure that the vast majority did so on political grounds, not because they hated America or are racists. There is no rule that you have to vote for one person or the other, that's the really cool thing about our Democracy. We can become informed and vote for whomever we want. And many many people vote for the guy who doesn't end up winning. So if people are telling you that you are unAmerican or a racist it must be for some other reason. Perhaps some self-reflection would bring you an answer.

"I think he's hiding something."

Like what exactly? It's easy to simply say something derogatory and not back it up. So say it. What exactly do you think he is hiding?

"McCain is laughing hard in private. "Here is why Jesus Christ would not win in November were he the republican nominee."

Well, I'm not sure John McCain is laughing about Jesus Christ at all, but why on earth would we want Jesus Christ to be President? If, in fact, Jesus Christ would be on this earth, would it not obviate any need to have a President any more? Or pretty much anything? Wouldn't Jesus Christ just assume control, rather than hitting the campaign trail to run against mere mortals?

"Obama is making the GOP a regional party. He is pushing them further and further to the right.

I'm not sure if Obama is doing much to the GOP, they seem intent on doing it themselves. But the GOP really is in a moment of truth. They just finished the most unpopular presidency in history, lost control of both houses of Congress in 2006 followed by another drubbing in 2008. They also have a disproportionate number of wavering seats coming up for reelection in 2010. So they have to make some choices. They could go further right, which they would do if they think they lost the 2008 election because they moved too much to the center with McCain. Or they could think.

As I say in my other article, the Republicans appeared to opt for thinking when they chose Michael Steele to be new RNC Chair (though as someone pointed out in that article, I may have given too much credit to them, since Steele was picked only on the 6th ballot, suggesting that he won mostly because of division in the ranks, not thinking).

"President Obama is smiling because he is winning, and will continue to win."

But there are many out there saying he isn't winning, that the unified front the Republicans in the House showed by voting against the stimulus package "dealt him a blow to which he may not recover."

Seems a bit melodramatic, but in any case, how do we interpret everything that has happened in the last week or two?

"Interesting discussion, but David K, I see the usual right wing nut devotees of Savage, Hannity, Beck, Ingram, Limbaugh,, and all the rest. They have no original thoughts, and only and always say what they have been told to think. It always makes me --smirk & giggle--- when they comment. Do they think we don't notice the sameness of what they say week after week, changing only as the AM Talk topic changes?"

Oddly enough (or not), the right says the same thing about the "left wing nut" jobs.

"David, I have another take. I think the White and both Houses of Congress are scared s--- less that they may not be able to fix what is broken in our economy."

I certainly hope so, Randy. I want them working their butts off trying to fix this. I wish the last Administration had been paying more attention.

"The President showed his inexperience when he let Pelosi put together "his" "stimulus" bill, and he got his name attached to a porker that won't stimulate anything. Pelosi showed her arrogant ineptitude when she let the Republicans off the hook by shutting them out of the process."

Then how would you explain the "experience" of President Bush who lobbied for and got the first big stimulus package? And how are you so sure that the stimulus bill won't stimulate anything? As for Pelosi shutting the Republicans out of the process, you must have missed all those meetings. Of course she didn't just hand over the pen to the minority party, as the Republicans didn't do when they were the majority. That's why we have majority and minority rules in Congress. But the Republicans had ample opportunity to propose changes, which they took full advantage of, and yet still play the "she didn't let us play in the schoolyard" routine. (In all fairness, the Democrats are playing the schoolyard game too)

"I look for a "Gang of ??" to be formed to avoid a Reid-led partisan debacle and give the Senate version of the bill their best shot on a bi-partisan basis."

The Senate is by its very nature (and intentionally) less "emotional" than the House and where some (but unfortunately not all) of the junk will be removed. Additional negotiations will tweak the bill when the House and Senate versions go into conference.

And the Republicans will go on TV saying how the Democrats didn't listen to them and the bill is laden with pork and it won't work....while privately they have inserted tons of pork that go right back to their districts and which they will tout as "bringing home the bacon" in their reelection bids.

Ironically, guess who will be smiling. :)

"Obama is smiling because Limbaugh is now the face of the GOP. The leader. Can you imagine. People in that party take Limbaugh more seriously than McCain or any other congressman."

In a sense, this is certainly true, Alan. At least for this past week anyway. Limbaugh bumps up his ratings, the far right and the far left all get a chance to wave their hands in the air, and the thinking Republicans try to keep a low profile for fear of 1) ticking off the base (hence this week's groveling incident on Rush's show) or 2) being pulled into the morass.

Speaking of McCain. Have you been watching? :)

Thanks for sharing

Thanks for coming by.

An example of a centrist winning?

Barack Obama promised to be a bi-partisan (centrist) President. He ran against someone who had a far better bi-partisan voting record. The voters bought the concept of bi-partisan legislation as much, or more, than anything else.

Not only do people resent either party overreaching, as they traditionally do, but Obama set the stage for ordinary voters to watch out for this bad behavior.

Those voters who did not want bi-partisan legislation should have blocked the nomination of Obama. It's too late now.

That post turned out well. I'm making it into an article.

Thanks Tim. I'll check out your article.

I can't understand why people are foolish enough to give Rush Limbaugh any credibility after he was busted for the prescription drugs.

I think John McCain is secretly glad he didn't win, now he can live his life the way he wants to. He even looked relieved when he did his concession speech on Nov. 4.

Bob, I think he must tell people what they want to hear, because they keep listening to him despite the fact he doesn't actually say anything important (which is probably true for most on-air personalities).

I suspect John McCain appreciates his life in the Senate more now.

When I think of Franken I recall the SNL days. But then I don't live in Minnesota and have no idea how he and Coleman each campaigned. If Franken is a joke, then does that mean the Minnesota voters thought Coleman was more of a joke? [I'm not passing judgment, just trying to understand their thought processes.]

I'm not sure I can comment on the rest, since there is so much there and most of it is a screed sans arrangement.

"When have the Democrats ever been bipartisan?"

Actually, by definition one party cannot be bipartisan.

Also, I'm curious as to how we might define bipartisan, given that the Democrats did in fact include the Republicans in the process, and Obama and Biden in particular had several meetings and many phone calls with Republicans to discuss their ideas. Some of their ideas were included in the bill, including their central idea, which is additional tax breaks for the same people that got them before (which in all fairness, didn't seem to work out too well).

Unless, of course, you think that the Republicans voting as a block contributed to being "bipartisan." In which case you should read the long explanation of how the House and Senate work that I put as a comment in my other post.

Franken will vote with the Dems, Coleman will vote with the Republican flops. That's all I need to know. Who cares about SNL? It means Franken has some wit and a sense of humor. Wouldn't that be refreshing?

Wit and humor is nice, though I'd opt for someone who thinks.

Franken is a Harvard grad who happens to be very intelligent.

People seem to forget that it's possible to be both funny and intelligent.