Some of my recent online augmenting has prompted several trips to the book of Genesis, and subsequently sparked a few nits that I haven't picked yet. Ergo, here are three mini-rants dealing with the books themes of perfection, knowledge, and parenthood:
#1: Naked and Unashamed
One way we learn about how Eden was "perfect" is that the Garden's only two human inhabitants were "naked...and unashamed". I take that to mean that if they were embarrassed at the sight of one another's bodies (or just didn't want to look at hoo-hoos), that would be bad and thus not perfect. So it's a good thing to be naked and not give a care. Score one, nudists! Of course, we learn from Genesis 3:7 that they didn't know they were naked and therefore could not have been ashamed because of ignorance. And once they had Knowledge about such things, they clothed themselves, because being naked is bad.
This segues into...
#2: Perfection Demands Lack of Knowledge
A lot of Christians (and I suppose, Jews) would charge the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil as the reason for the way things are today (meaning rape, famine, only living 80 years or so); or more specifically, Adam and Eve's eating of the fruit of said Tree. But recall that Genesis has already set up the scene as being perfect -- no death, disease, worries, etc. Lack of knowledge about being naked, lack of knowledge about what good and bad are...these things don't sound like perfection to me. Perfection in the sense of ignorant bliss, maybe. Perhaps it's just my love for knowledge and the way it lifts the blind and unenlightened out of the mires of superstition and ignorance, but I'd say that if the two of them (let's call them Adam and Eve) did not have knowledge -- of any kind -- then they were imperfect.
This ties into my final rant...
#3: God Is a Bad Parent
So you've got a talking snake who tells Eve it's okay to eat of the Tree, because she would gain Knowledge and be "like God". He also assures her that she won't die that day, contrary to what her creator threatened. Essentially, you've got a young girl who doesn't know right from wrong, being tempted by a scary guy in a van with candy. I somewhat agree with the snake...after all, they didn't die that day and they learned (apparently) what God knows. But even if they were lied to, and eating of the Tree of Knowledge really was the reason for the downfall of humankind, does the blame really lie with Adam and Eve?
An omniscient deity would have already foresaw this fall and many (including myself) have written extensively about it before, so we'll leave that part of it alone for now. After all, just sticking with Genesis, the extent of God's knowledge is unknown. So for that sake, let's just assume that the "Almighty" didn't know his clueless kid could be so easily tricked and eat the edible fruit from the tree he planted within her reach. (Anybody else see three easy ways this could have all been avoided?)
I get this all the time -- God did the just and righteous thing; you'd do the same if you had kids. Oh would I? Those of you who see your god as a father figure probably rationalize this way a lot: you don't know as much as your Sky Daddy; if you disobey he's gonna burn you forever and you would deserve it. Doesn't sound like good parenting to me. Even though I don't have children of my own, I'd like to offer some advice to Yahweh in order to keep this from happening again in the NEXT universe he decides to create.
- Suggestion 1: Talk to your kids. Don't keep secrets from them; let them know what's going on even if it's hard for them to comprehend. You're all-powerful...find a way. At the very least, create them with the ability to "get it". Make sure they understand right from wrong -- especially if doing the wrong thing will result in the whole lot of them being cursed forever and forced to live in a world that is less perfect than you wanted. Teach them kindness by being kind. Teach them how the world works. Teach them virtues that will benefit them and make their lives more complete. Teach, don't threaten.
- Suggestion 2: Don't put harmful things in their reach. Even us lowly fallen humans have learned that kids who don't understand consequences can get into trouble, and have added "Keep out of reach of children" as a warning of such scenarios. If you've moved the harmful thing out of their reach and you think there's even the slightest chance they could still hurt themselves, see suggestion number one again and talk to them about it. (Note: this doesn't mean threaten them. This means explain why they would be better off staying away from the harmful thing.)
- Suggestion 3: Don't go apeshit if they don't listen to you. I realize that it was probably your first time with kids, but you should realize that they don't know as much as you do (even if you don't know everything). You have to teach them how to learn and show them what you want them to know. When they mess up, correct it with compassion, not damnation. Be willing to forgive right there on the spot (not a few thousand years later when you have to kill yourself to make a loophole in the rules). Look, I don't mean to armchair-psychoanalyze you but you need to get a grip on your temper. With great power comes great responsibility, God, and I don't think you've shown that you're capable of caring for the things that you make. We can take care of each other far better.
-STA


Comments: 36
But, when it comes to people who take this stuff literally, and apply it to their lives, then it really can be dangerous - withholding medical care from children, raising kids to think that the world around them is a simple black/white, right/wrong environment, raising kids with distorted views of history and human rights, etc. etc. etc. For me, it constitutes child abuse. As a former teacher, I would have gotten fired if I filled my pupils' minds with total garbage, but parents and clergy are allowed to do this all the time. Men existing with dinosaurs? Sure! The Bible tells me so. It's more than sad...it's dangerous and destructive. When the kids start to grow up and go out into the real, complex world and have to function solving real problems, dealing with complex situations, they simply cannot handle it. We've just had a taste of leadership under a person like this. Personally, I've had enough for a lifetime.
Thanks for the post.
Great comments, guys.
But Sheryl's right. I've come to a pretty secure personal view of how we all came about, and it doesn't involve anthropomorphic beings. And I've grown tired of arguing over someone else's fairy tales.
Thank you for posting to this group whose only purpose is to thank you for posting to this group.
Thanks, Chris. We all could.
Romans 9:20
Is what you say simply right or simply wrong or simply simple?
-Mark
Hey know-it-all, God said nothing about them dying 'that day'. He said they would surely die. . .
What is this 'die' anyways. What is it to 'die'? Are you dead?
-Mark
Hey Mark, kindly not quote bible verses unless you're making a point. And if you're trying to point out that God was warning Adam and Eve of something that they had zero knowledge of (death), then yeah, I agree. They'd be saying, what is death? What does it mean to 'die'?
What does it mean to die?
-Mark
What does it mean to dye?
-Berf
And that is the crux of the matter isn't it? Religion provides answers...answers which if challenged, will weaken the religion....shake it's foundations....shed unwanted light upon the darkness of the veiled unknown. Religion demands unquestioned devotion.
Those who are willing to cling to this devotion do so without the constraints of reality...and they are willing to ignore or give no value to any points of evidence or argument that contradicts that to which they hold as doctrine.
I have come to believe that they, the religious zealots, can't help themselves. They can't make themselves question what they hold as the truth any more than I can MAKE myself believe in the existence of a supreme being.
"The effectiveness of a doctrine does not come from its meaning but from its certitude. No doctrine however profound and sublime will be effective unless it is presented as the embodiment of the one and only truth." ERIC HOFFER
But then there is the undecided...there are the undecideds. There are those who haven't bought "faith in a supreme being" and who allow for the possibility that god is a myth...those who don't know how to resolve the conflict of "needing" a god and "needing" to have real answers.
I have recently been involved in a Gather conservation(s) that has been ongoing for months. The one thing most (really...a majority I would say) of the folks in the conservations have in common is that they are spiritual. It is interesting to me is that MOST of the participants in the conservations are also critical of organized religion. This is the place where the truth seeking mind has begun to question the authority of organized religion and this is the ledge upon which we can sit and actually discuss spirituality...after the religion is ditched.
It is your inability to comprehend THIS Truth that explains why you are so confused. However, I'm fine with that.
The Wisdom of the "wise" He will Frustrate...
Care to define "Evil?"
Until you've lived it, don't presume to know how to advise on it.
Unless/until people understand, and embrace, this truth the world will continue its downward spiral.
Seriously? Sheryl O. I for one am glad you are a former teacher not a current one. You have a very distorted view of people who believe in God and if you are only talking about one religion (which I think I know which one it is), don't generalize and put everyone in one box. Don't tell lies either, it only makes you look stupid and ignorant.
a slim snippet:
but because of the conflict of dogma vs reality. . .
It seems that death is a reality, all dogma aside. . .
What is it to die? come, let us reason together. . .
-Mark
Then they will surely discern as a group that the Law of Sin and Death is a grim spectre which stares them in the collective face. . .
-Mark
Not only that, but sometimes it IS fun to question if wolf was justified!
Typo's are the least of your worries. . .
-Mark
I might also be just looking for meaning where there is none and it was an honest typo.
No hun, you're reading into more than is there. I was simply pasting Slim's original text into my comment. It was an honest typo.
-Mark
P.S. Seems like the line has gone dead here - not much feedback typo or no typo. . .
I am looking for a conversation where I can learn more about the *positive* assertions of atheism rather than a discussion of what atheists reject or find fault with and/or a defense or counter from theists. I have no interest in a conversation the point of which is for atheists and theists try to change each other. Mine is simply an intellectual and cultural interest -- as in "getting to know my neighbors", not telling them how to think. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thank you!
I'm not sure what you mean by "positive assertions of atheism". Atheism isn't a religion. It has no creeds, no tenets, no dogmas. There are no holy texts or regimented rituals or practices. All it takes to be an atheist is to lack theism. If you can't answer "yes" to the question "do you believe in a god", then you're an atheist. Just like all it takes to be "bald" is to not have hair, all it takes to be an "atheist" is to not have a god belief. Therefore, atheists are free to make up their own minds on any- and everything else.
I can only offer my own commentary on what my atheism does for me. I'll be happy to discuss with you further if you'd like, either on here, through email, or however.
I'd like to suggest to you the "Friendly Athiest" website/forum. I've been a regular reader/contributor there since Sept 08. It's a friendly bunch. Freethinkers are welcome.
I also have struggled with the concepts of perfection,knowledge, and parenthood.
Fostering shame is a big part of Christianity. It goes along with that nice helping of guilt we often get as kids for not living up to certain parental expectations.
The knowledge-seeking, question-asking part of us as human beings is in direct conflict with a supreme being that insists on having the singular path to truth. To question is to doubt and to doubt is to sin. We are sinful for asking questions and seeking knowledge. Religious people seem so certain of their beliefs and part of me envys that faith they hold. But I'm a curious person with lots of questions, so I'm not content with religious stories and allegories.
As for parenthood, I have two wonderful kids that have been raised without religion. They are independent thinkers. I have maintained honesty in our relationships and given them the freedom to develop their interests. I tell them the truth, even when it's not easy to do. I've protected them from what I can while understanding that the path each person takes will often have stumbling blocks. And we learn from those stumbling blocks. They make us strong and resilient.