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by Pat Bertram
Member since:
October 4, 2007

Style, Cadence, and Influence -- NWJC Discussion #47

January 07, 2009 02:53 PM EST
views: 163 | rating: 10/10 (12 votes) | comments: 159

Some of you might have seen this article when I posted it on my blog, but that is no excuse for not joining in the discussion -- we want to hear what you have to say about your own style, how you create the specific cadence that is your style (are style and cadence the same?), and who influenced you.

This artice was written by Ken Coffman, an author who -- inexplicably -- is not a member of No Whine, Just Champagne, otherwise I would have had him post it himself. Ken writes:

Recently, my friend Lisa said this to me: "You tend to like more baroque-type authors, gravitate towards writers with that style, and write in that style.  Ironically, I really do like Hemingway, in that when I read him way back when, I immediately liked and related to the prose style . . . "

It's true. We're diverse, and different things float our metaphorical schooners. See, there I go. I could have simply said boat and your eye would have slid smoothly over the cliché. But, I didn't want to.

Anyway, back to the point I'm laboring to make.

          Nick looked on at the moon, coming up over the hills.
          "It isn't fun any more."
          He was afraid to look at Marjorie. Then he looked at her. She sat there with her back toward him. He looked at her back. "It isn't fun any more. Not any of it."
          She didn't say anything. He went on. "I feel as though everything was gone to hell inside of me. I don't know, Marge. I don't know what to say."
          He looked on at her back.
          "Isn't love any fun?" Marjorie said.
          "No," Nick said. Marjorie stood up. Nick sat there, his head in his hands.
                - Ernest Hemingway, The End of Something

Of course, I can appreciate Hemingway's sparse mastery. In feeble imitation, sometimes I report things in a flat tone to emphasize a point or work against the reader's mental picture. But, generally, my ambitions lie elsewhere. I like prose that is more playful and convoluted.

Tom Robbins, who I like to call my neighbor, writes like this:

          A few months later, everyone of the bride's relatives, including even distant cousins, decided that life was meaningless without that most talented, most delightful girl, not to mention her pious and generous family, and so the relatives, as well, set off for the hills and Fan Nan Nan. Their departure tore a hole in the fabric of the community; there was an abiding emptiness there.
               -- Tom Robbins, Villa Incognito

The difference in style could hardly be more obvious. Tom's zany prose dances.

          Then I looked at Dale, my sergeant, wringing out his shirt in a metal water drum. His back was brown, ridged with vertebrae, his ribs like sticks against his skin, the points of his black hair shiny with sweat. Then his lean Czechoslovakian face smiled at me, with more tenderness and affection in his eyes than I had yet seen in a woman's.
          He was killed eight days later when a Huey tipped the treetops in an LZ and suddenly dipped sideways into the clearing.
                -  James Lee Burke, Heaven's Prisoners

Burke has a huge vocabulary and is unafraid to take a risk. He sits on a limb and with careful, deliberate, thoughtful strokes, works his saw.

To my taste, the master of mixing the eloquent with the absurd is Nabokov.

          I thought I had crossed the frontier when a bare-headed Red Army soldier with a Mongol face who was picking whortleberries near the trail challenged me: "And whither," he asked picking up his cap from a stump, "may you be rolling (kotishsya), little apple (yablochko)? Pokazyvay-ka dokumentiki (Let me see your papers)."
          I groped in my pockets, fished out what I needed, and shot him dead, as he lunged at me; then he fell on his face, as if sunstruck on the parade ground, at the feet of his king. None of the serried tree trunks looked his way, and I fled, still clutching Dagmara's lovely little revolver. Only half an hour later, when I reached at last another part of the forest in a more or less conventional republic, only then did my calves cease to quake.
              - Vladimir Nabokov, Look at the Harlequins!

So, how am I doing? You judge.

          "I'm bored," Nort said.
          "That's because you're not doing anything."
          "And you can't make me."
          "Right," Jake said. "Exactly."
          "I'm not staying here. I'll beg on the street."
          Jake looked up.
          "It used to be that a man would rather die than be a beggar or take charity," he said.
          "Things are different now."
          "I can see that. Good luck out there."
          "What's wrong with you? You don't care about me at all."
          Jake licked the tip of his pencil.
          "When I was in Da Nang, I was stabbed in the gut with a sharp stick by a starving 11-year-old who wanted the three dollars in my wallet." He lifted his shirt to show a twisted scar. "After I killed him with a brick, I realized either God either didn't exist or was the biggest asshole of us all. I care about you, but out in the world you'll die of AIDS or get stabbed in an alley by a cracked-out whore. It doesn't pay to get emotionally attached to the doomed."
               - Ken Coffman, Fairhaven 

You plant your butt in your chair and you face the demons that live in that blank screen. You spend hours and hours wringing words, situations, and plots from too-thin air.

Who are your influences? And, what are your ambitions?

So, who are your influences? If not style-wise, then generally -- what authors have you read who helped form your writing goals? What authors do you particularly like? What is your style, and how do you create your specific cadence? Feel free to post examples of your own work (and yes, you can mention the titles). Oh, and don't forget to tell us your ambitions. (Besides the obvious one of becoming a bestselling author.) Since this is our first discussion after the long hiatus for those pesky holidays, I want you to have fun.

The group No Whine, Just Champagne will exchange ideas about style, cadence, and influences during our live discussion on January 8, 2009 at 9:00pm ET.

Expand Tags: no whine just champagne, writing discussion, focus on writing, live chat thursday 900pm et, style, cadence
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Comments: 159

Patricia F. Jan 7, 2009, 3:02pm EST
Pat...love your style and your thoughtful teaching. That's really how I see you. A teacher. I have not been writing for ages. Life has ganged up on me lately and now Dad is in the hospital with pneumonia and a weird hallucinatory "mania". I cannot light on a thought or a phrase long enough , lately, to do me or any reader any damn good! When life settles just a bit, I want to read all of your posts and start whining with you on Thursday nights. I so miss writing.

As for writes who have influenced my style? Maybe Fitzgerald and Capote. Love Capote.

I will write again soon. Thanks for this lovely read...
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Marge H. Jan 7, 2009, 3:11pm EST
Just wanted to drop by, leave you a ten, and tell you how much I enjoyed your article. I'm trying to get another novel written by March.
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A. F. Stewart Jan 7, 2009, 3:17pm EST
I know Ray Bradbury influenced my style, but I also believe it developed to suit the genre (fantasy) in which I write.
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JustMe ~I'm happy to be~ Jan 7, 2009, 4:00pm EST
Philosophers lately have been my influence.

Before that poets like Emerson, Millay and ee cummings.

Conroy and Hurst for their imagery.

Great article, Pat!
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David W. Jan 7, 2009, 4:27pm EST
I would have to say that my words come from life itself. I read many authors in several genres. If their style or styles come through, it is only on a subconscious level. My own words are greatly affected by the tragedies I have experienced, best when I am moved and at the worst, when I am forcing the pen.

I believe Hemingway said something like, "Writing is easy, you just sit down at the typewriter and bleed."
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Robert - just a simple man - B. Jan 7, 2009, 6:43pm EST
I'm from Maine, when I begin to write a story (not an essay, poems or lyrics), I am inevitably influenced by Stephen King. Unless it's humor then I see a shade of Dave Barry shining through. (see the pun?).

And, of course, though I don't have his style; Hemingway has always been a favorite.
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Wanda H. Jan 7, 2009, 8:07pm EST
I'm not sure of my style yet, if I have one, what it is. I have read so widely in so many genres and authors that probably I have absorbed some of this and some of that. While I can see a style coming through I'm not sure what to call it. Maybe it's called Mulligen Stew Style. ;o)

Maybe ya'all will know if it has a name.

Great article Pat.
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JustMe ~I'm happy to be~ Jan 7, 2009, 8:57pm EST
I wanted to add that my influences come also from internal feeling, external experience and pure imagination.

I am open to it all.
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Andrea (Ms. Conservative) L. Jan 7, 2009, 9:30pm EST
10 - Here's wishing you much success this year!
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JOHN BECK Jan 8, 2009, 6:03am EST
Did Coffman really use "either" twice in the same sentence?
"... I realized either God either didn't exist or was the biggest asshole of us all."
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Kenna C. Jan 8, 2009, 7:45am EST
Nice article, Pat. I'm in Wanda's shoes. I've read widely, since I was a kid, and I'm sure I've been influenced in my own writing by all of it. Off hand, the writers I really remember are Tolkien and Herbert - they weave such rich, wonderful worlds that I love to visit. However, since I primarily write in mystery/crime fiction, I'm not sure how much they influence my 'style' (if I have one!).

Mystery novelist that I enjoy include Sue Grafton, Tony Hillerman, and JA Jance (though I'm particular about the characters). I find myself most influence by character development, but now that I'm actively learning the craft of writing, I'm trying to go back and really explore what makes various books 'work' for me as a reader. I'm definitely in the midst of the 'consciously incompetent' writing stage. I'm hoping, over the next year to make it to 'consciously competent', but it's going to be a challenge!

Soooo, guess I'll have to let you know the answer once I've developed my style!

I look forward to the discussion tonight. Hopefully, I'll remember to log on!
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 10:51am EST
Thanks for an enormously interesting topic, Pat. I'm really looking forward to the discussion tonight.

For me, language is one of the most appealing elements of reading. That's why I never skip paragraphs, and in fact, read them several times when I especially like them.

Ken Coffman's examples are outstanding. I also like James Lee Burke and have been influenced by him. His scenes use all the senses to capture the essence of the Louisiana bayou.

From BLACK CHERRY BLUES, A Dave Robicheaux novel by James Lee Burke

"Her hair is curly and gold on the pillow, her skin white in the heat lightning that trembles beyond the pecan trees outside the bedroom window. The night is hot and breathless, the clouds painted like horsetails against the sky; a peal of thunder rumbles out on the Gulf like an apple rolling around in the bottom of a wood barrel, and the first raindrops ping against the window fan. She sleeps on her side, and the sheet molds her thigh, the curve of her hip, her breast."


Another favorite of mine is Amy Tan. She blends language, story, character, and humor into unified masterpieces.

From JOY LUCK CLUB by Amy Tan

"My mother believed you could be anything you wanted to be in America. You could open a restaurant. You could work for the government and get good retirement. You could buy a house with almost no money down. You could become rich. You could become instantly famous.
'Of course, you can be a prodigy, too,' my mother told me when I was nine. 'You can be best anything. What does Auntie Lindo know? Her daughter, she is only best tricky.' "

Style, I think, is a combination of cadence, word choice, alliteration, and metaphor.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 10:57am EST
Since you said we could post samples of our own work and mention titles, I decided on the opening of my first published novel TALES OUT OF SCHOOL.

Heat rose from concrete and asphalt pavements, and humidity much too steamy for September, hung thick and heavy in the air. Sandra Scott stood in a cavernous classroom behind a colossal oak desk—the teacher’s desk—amid stark fluorescent lighting, a wall of open windows, and the smell of dusty grammar books on the shelves below. Stacks of a rebound literature anthology, green to match the boards, towered on the sills.

It was the first day of school at Somerville High, five miles north of Boston. Sandy checked her note cards, again. She fluffed her freshly frosted hair, newly cut in layers to just below her chin. She fanned herself with limp class lists.

Surveying the scene in front of her, which included seating for thirty students, Sandy caught a glimpse of her chest heaving up and down, keeping time with a steady whoosh of long, deep breaths. Launching a new career, her second in as many years, made her heart pound.
Relentlessly, it beat in her ears, like "A Tell-Tale Heart."

Chapter 1 is available for free download at www.ShirleyAnnHoward.com
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JOHN BECK Jan 8, 2009, 5:22pm EST
Shirley, in the interest of discussing cadence, I took the liberty of altering your opening above to more closely match my style. I'm not implying that my modification is superior to your original, just a different style for discussion:

Heat rose from concrete and asphalt pavements. Humidity, much too steamy for September, hung thick and heavy. Sandra Scott stood in a cavernous classroom behind the teacher’s colossal oak desk amid stark fluorescent lighting, a wall of open windows, and the smell of dusty grammar books on the shelves below. Stacks of a rebound literature anthology, green to match the boards, towered on the sills.

It was the first day of school at Somerville High, five miles north of Boston. Sandy checked her note cards one more time. She fluffed her freshly frosted hair, newly cut in layers to just below her chin. She fanned herself with limp class lists.

Surveying the scene in front of her including seating for thirty students, Sandy caught a glimpse of her chest heaving up and down with a steady whoosh of long, deep breaths. Launching a new career, her second in as many years, made her heart pound. Relentlessly it beat in her ears like "A Tell-Tale Heart."
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 8:04pm EST
I think cadence is very important in writing, John, and really like that you chose to use my piece.

Your version is reminiscent of Hemingway, short and clipped, similar to his journalist style. I think that creates tension in a work and is appropriate if that's the intent of the author.

My version (which mind you was probably written and revised at least seventy-five times--no exaggeration) tries to capture the overall tenor of the novel, which is a combination of tension and inner peace.

I describe it as.... A young woman searches for self and love in an unclear world.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 8:46pm EST
I think it's interesting that each of us could write basically the same piece and each come up with a different meaning based on style, cadence, and influence.
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~Sia McKye~ Jan 8, 2009, 8:59pm EST
Current authors? Can't say there is any author that has influenced my writing perse. There are some I admire for their character development and the pace and flow of their stories. Their ability to effectively weave threads of suspense and tension.

One that comes to mind is Nora Roberts, in so far as character dynamics. I like the way she shows realistic emotional ties between siblings. I also like how she shows that people can form ties as close siblings. Friendship. That's hallmark even when she writes as JD Robb. Plus, she's a Celtic lass who knows how to tell a good story.

Poetry has been a bigger influence on my writing than prose. The feel of the words used. Their rhythm and flow. The ability to touch a reader's emotions.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:02pm EST
I've learned a lot from writing poetry, though that was years ago. Nowadays I satisfy myself with simple little ditties and complicated novels.
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Deborah J Ledford Jan 8, 2009, 9:03pm EST
What a great article, Pat. Interesting choice in authors, each one unique and powerful. I loved Hemingway growing up and do implement his style of short, concise sentences. I intersperse staccato sentences with long ones to heighten my action sequences.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:05pm EST
To Robert from Maine, who likes Stephen King-----you absolutely must read his ON WRITING.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:06pm EST
If I had to name an influence, it would probably be Taylor Caldwell for two reasons.

One, I like books that tell of unknown events or show history in a different light or speak of real life conspiracies, and she did that very well.

Two, she had an execrable style (In one book I swear she used the word inexorable on every other page. About drove me nuts.) which taught me to pay attention to what I want to say, don't duplicate words or effects, and write shorter books.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:06pm EST
I think sentence variety is essential.
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Deborah J Ledford Jan 8, 2009, 9:07pm EST
I normally read literary novels, but recently decided that since I write thrillers, I needed to research those authors' works. I've read all of Lisa Gardner now and recognize my technique in her work. Also P.J. Parrish. My favorite genre writer is Greg Iles. Christopher Reich is also excellent.
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Deborah J Ledford Jan 8, 2009, 9:08pm EST
I consciously study Isabel Allende, Pat Conroy, John Irving, Michael Cunningham and even Michael Chabon. Each author is wildly diverse and masters of the craft.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:09pm EST
If I like a book, I never want it to end, so "long" is no problem for me. I once read King's 1100 page edition of THE STAND.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:11pm EST
I once tried to study Jodi Picoult and could not do it on my first reading, because the story drew me along so forcefully. I had much greater success the second time through.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:13pm EST
I thought Jennifer Weiner's GOOD IN BED was very well written. However, I don't think she was as successful in her subsequent novels.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:13pm EST
I'm middle of the road. I like writing that is not too sparse but not overflowing either. There has to be a rhythm that suits the context. Sometimes it's short and quick, other times longer sentences are used. I also like imagery (metaphors and similes).

This is from a book by Shane Abe:

"The ruby silk swished and floated like a bright zephyr at her feet, the color so warm it reflected back off the polished floors. The Scotswomen walked ahead, deliberating over where the laird might be, and Leila took silent note of walls, portraits, marble busts, memorizing her way back. They passed doors open and closed, and then an open door with voices within.

"The tone of those voices caught Leila's attention at once - cracked and worried, the sharp shades of crisis."
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:14pm EST
I studied her techniques quite a bit, but was not able to use everything because she wrote in first person and I've come to prefer third.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:15pm EST
I know I should consciously study various writers, see how they achieve the effects they do, but my mind rebels. It just doesn't want to deal with the structure. It only wants to read the story and get out. It might be different if I ever found someone who's style I admired.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:16pm EST
I like that phrase, "memorizing her way back." I think phrases and beats more than style capture my imagination.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:16pm EST
Thelma, the first sentence is the kind I would read over and over again before proceeding with the rest of the book.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:17pm EST
I agree with Shirley on sentence variety. This is something we can do during editing - vary the lengths.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:18pm EST
Sentence variety creates a more interesting cadence.
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Deborah J Ledford Jan 8, 2009, 9:18pm EST
Pat, I think your analytical mind would enjoy literary fiction. Ann-Marie MacDonald's "Where the Crow Flies" is astonishing. I find myself wanting to read every single word of her work. For a little more mainstream, Anita Shreve's "Resistance" is fabulous.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:19pm EST
This polished style of writing takes a lot of effort (at least it does for me!) and I never get it with the first draft. There's a lot of thinking involved, coming up with an original image and putting it into words in a masterful way.
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Deborah J Ledford Jan 8, 2009, 9:20pm EST
Thelma, the Abe example is breathtaking. So visual and concise. Thanks for sharing this with us.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:20pm EST
Two outstanding writers, Deborah.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:22pm EST
I'll put these books on my reading list. Maybe it's time to give literary fiction a try again.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:22pm EST
Writing is a great deal of thinking, Thelma. It often takes tremendous effort to come up with an original image. I love Mark Twain's quote.... "The difference between the right word and almost the right word is like the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."
So very Twain.
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~Sia McKye~ Jan 8, 2009, 9:23pm EST
Pat, I remember reading Caldwell. My mom liked some of her books. I liked some of her story premises, but damn, I swear that woman could spend 15 pages describing the turning of a leaf, or a field. sheesh. You could condense her story by 40% and not lose the story, just the extra stuff.
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Heather ~of the Whippets~ M. Jan 8, 2009, 9:26pm EST
I've read a lot of different stuff and have been scribbling since I could hold a crayon, but I do think that Anne Rice has had a definite influence.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:26pm EST
Between blogging, networking, promoting, and editing.... there's precious little time left for writing or reading. So I take books to doctor's appts, etc. I also find reading helpful in getting to sleep.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:26pm EST
Deborah - that's it. Abe's writing is visual. I like writing that is sensory and visual, helps us to be there.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:27pm EST
Reading a novel is a luxury for me, too. I read non-fiction only when I am working on a book because I don't want to be influenced by someone else's story. But I miss it!
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Sy g. Jan 8, 2009, 9:27pm EST
I would have to say that there is nothing in life sweeter than partaking of a nice piece of cheesecake at the Broadway Deli, saying hello to the dames as they walk by, talking with my friends from the track, and reading Damon Runyon, whose style is unique among mortals.

Or Hemingway. I read him in college. He was good.

Elmore Leonard, walked into my living room with a large suitcase, a gun and an attitude. "Whats up" I asked him. He didnt answer or smile, before he shot me through the heart. Now there is some style, I thought just before I died.

Ann Tyler, invited me to her large house in Baltimore, and allowed me to sit in her parlor, while she continued her often interrupted monologue with Silky, the cat who had belonged to he first husband's daughter's girl friend Ramona. The third time the phone rang, it was Ramona herself, and the monologue became a dialog, from which I learned a good deal about the complex relationships among those who had inhabited this world.
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~Sia McKye~ Jan 8, 2009, 9:27pm EST
Editing is a thinking thing. Especially when I want my reader immersed in the scene. Choosing the right words is important. I think that's where the influence of poetry came into play.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:27pm EST
I'm still not sure whether I'm deveoping my style ior if it's simply a result of editing -- paying attention to every nuance of every word. I try to vary the sentences based on the pace of the scene, try to evoke images rather than describe them. For someone who is more of a genre writer (though without a genre) I choose my words as carefully as a literary writer. I just use simpler constructions, fewer metaphors and similes, and make the language subservient to the plot.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:28pm EST
Shirley, I hope MY book doesn't put people to sleep! That's what I'm trying to avoid... :-)
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:29pm EST
When you come down to it, style is what writing is all about.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:30pm EST
Sy, you are so very good at mimicking style.
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~Sia McKye~ Jan 8, 2009, 9:30pm EST
But I also feel a writer can over think and lose the emotional flow.

Sy, Runyan is unique but fun.
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Angela A. Jan 8, 2009, 9:30pm EST
As if you don't know by now, I love romance novels. And, the biggest authors that have influenced me are, Julia Quinn(my favorite author of all time), Suzanne Enoch, Eloisa James, and Elizabeth Boyle.
I love Julia's way with humor and that's what made me decide to place a bit of humor somewhere in my WIP's. I love the little chuckles in the book that relieve the tension somewhat. Then, I love to switch gears, and choke you up a bit. With either sadness, or anger, or even confusion.
Sometimes, it's good to throw the reader off the scent. I will post a snippet of my latest short story to show my writing style.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:31pm EST
Pat, I like what you said about evoking images rather than giving descriptions. We need to let the reader participate in the story!
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Deborah J Ledford Jan 8, 2009, 9:31pm EST
I agree that it's important NOT to read books of the same genre when writing our WIP. Too much temptation to slip into that author's voice. Another reason why I love literary novels so much.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:33pm EST
Late at night when my eyes are tired, Thelma, I relish the fatigue from a quiet book.
If I'm really into something, I read it first thing in the morning with my tea.
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~Sia McKye~ Jan 8, 2009, 9:33pm EST
Pat, you know I love ya, but I need to go help my child with exponents.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:34pm EST
Sy, you are just so funny and brilliant. Give us more. Please ????
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:35pm EST
Shirley, I know what you mean about there being so little time. My books aren't even published yet (more delays, sigh) but I never seem to have any time. I can't imagine what my life will be like when they are published. Knowing me, though, when I have to promote, I will probably decide to write. Or read. Or edit. Or something other than promote.

Lately, I have been writing a little, though. Finally got my hero into the dang zoo. Writing for a single character is hard -- no one for him to bounce off of, no one to add conflict or humor. Now I will have too many characters, but the pages should add up quicker -- more dialogue, less exposition and introspection and running from active volcanoes, putrified forests, killer rivers, devil toads.
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Sy g. Jan 8, 2009, 9:36pm EST
The last time I missed my court date, I was lucky enough to have Janet Evanovich try to bring me in. Of course, in her excitement at getting to meet me she had forgotten her handcuffs, run out of gas, and accidently blew up her hair, But we all had a great time eating pot roast at her mother's house.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:36pm EST
Sia, you are excused. :-)
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:36pm EST
I find it's practically impossible not to be influenced by just about everything around us.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:36pm EST
I love it when the novel I am into is so good that I can't stop reading! Of course that results in sleepless nights and all too soon the story is over. I admire storytelling ability as much as style. I remember reading The Good Earth by Pearl S. Buck - sparse writing but what a story!
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Wendy C. Jan 8, 2009, 9:38pm EST
Good Evening all,

I know I have a voice of my own, where it came from I can't begin to explain. Personally I tend to lean toward the most impact with the fewest words. Wow, how did they say all of that in 2 pages?

Anymore I have to turn the student/edit witch off in order to enjoy a book.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:38pm EST
I love you, Sy. And Janet Evanovich too. Shall we discuss Ranger?
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:38pm EST
Pat, it's hard to make it interesting when there's only one character. What I am learning is that we need conflict in just about every relationship in the story, and that's hard to do when the character is alone.
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Sy g. Jan 8, 2009, 9:39pm EST
" Sy, you are just so funny and brilliant. Give us more. Please ???? "

Publish shmublish. All I need is a comment like that one to put me in heaven. Writing is grand, aint it?
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Wendy C. Jan 8, 2009, 9:40pm EST
The Good Earth is a very good example. It was sparse but I can still remember the characters, images, sights and sounds. I read it about 30 years ago.. now that's an impact.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:40pm EST
Sy, I know I will have reached the epitome of fame or a pinnacle of writing or something when I find you imitating my style.
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Sy g. Jan 8, 2009, 9:40pm EST
OK, Shirley Ann, I will tell you a secret. Ranger is based on a real person.


Me.
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Wendy C. Jan 8, 2009, 9:41pm EST
Another one schmoozed Sy. ; 0 )
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:43pm EST
Sy will have to buy and read your book, Pat, before he can imitate it.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:43pm EST
Wendy - that's it, impact. A book like The Good Earth or Gone with the Wind (I must have read it three times) stays in mind long after it's over. By comparison, I wonder if I have that much to say!
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Sy g. Jan 8, 2009, 9:43pm EST
Why Wendy, whatever do you mean? Blank stare and arched eyebrows.
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Angela A. Jan 8, 2009, 9:44pm EST
Here's the excerpt of my writing style. The snippet is toward the end of the first part, where you see what the characters are thinking individually. But, they don't ever say so aloud.

Gracie watched as Evan rubbed the back of his neck. Every time he did that, his muscles stretched and bunched. And, her mouth went dry. His black hair combined with his emerald green eyes always put shivers down her spine.
Blast it! Why couldn’t she stop thinking of him?

Evan watched as Gracie worried her bottom lip. That plump mouth of hers, seemed to be doing strange things to him this evening. Every time she spoke, he had to grit his teeth to hold back the true things he wished to say to her.

He had known how much Steven had hurt and misled her. And, how she wished to steer clear of office romances. That had been why he hadn’t revealed any of his secret desires.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:44pm EST
What's the saying - imitation is the sincerest form of flattery?
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:44pm EST
So I maintain that style is a combination of cadence, word choice, alliteration, and metaphor.
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Wendy C. Jan 8, 2009, 9:46pm EST
Richard Bach's work tends to stick with me as well. Illusions and Jonathan Livingston Seagull. Very textured and rich.

Batting eyes.. what?
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:47pm EST
Angela, thanks for sharing your snippet. Do you have Gracie's and Evan's viewpoints in the same scene? Or are these different snippets?
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:48pm EST
I love Richard Bach's books. From what I recall, he had a simple writing style but you could feel his sincerity and a basic truth that always came through. He knows how to touch the reader.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:49pm EST
Isn't alliteration part of cadence and metaphor part of word choice?
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Sy g. Jan 8, 2009, 9:51pm EST
Pat, I remember reading an excerpt of whatever you posted some time ago (maybe it was a contest entry? Amazon?) I remember that I loved it, but I dont actually remember its style.

And now that I am done clowning around (Shirley Ann, you must learn not to encourage me), I find that if I need to change my style, say from my normal wise guy fiction, to my other normal academic deadpan, or back, it helps to read something in the proper style. Then I can get back into it. So I guess, yeah, I am very imitative.

Does that happen to you guys? After reading For Whom the Bell Tolls, do you find yourself writing sentences like "I ate it, and it was good."?
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:52pm EST
Oh, one of the topics for this evening is telling our writing ambition. I've always wanted to write a really compelling novel, to entertain as well as inspire. To give the reader hope and courage through my characters and how they face their challenges. How about you??
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:52pm EST
Well..... doesn't it all get put together into a unified whole?
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Angela A. Jan 8, 2009, 9:52pm EST
Thelma, I decided with this story that I would have both of their point of views in the first chapter/part. So, you know what they are both thinking. But, the mystery is, will they act on their feelings, or will they just continue to dance around each other?
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:53pm EST
For Whom the Bell Tolls. What's that? Kidding. Haven't read Hemingway in years, except excerpts in every single writing manual I've ever read.

I don't think I read slow enough to pick up anyone's style.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:55pm EST
I have lofty goals for my books..... to entertain and to provide controversial discussion issues. I like to create real characters with just enough embellishment to be interesting.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:55pm EST
I don't think I pick up another's style, either.

Angela, thanks for the explanation. Your novel sounds like fun!
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:56pm EST
I only know how to read slow. I refuse to race through a book I'm enjoying. I just never want it to end.
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 9:57pm EST
Sy, you read the first chapter of More Deaths Than One, though because of the contest rules, the chapter did not end where it was supposed to. This is what you said:

I think this is very well written, and it engages the interest. I gave you a 10, although I was disappointed in the ending of the chapter. Seeing yourself married to an exgirl friend etc. is either a dream, or so weird, that one would expect a different reaction than going about normal business. Still, I will patiently await chapter 2, and try not to dream about this at all.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 9:57pm EST
Shirley, it's good to have lofty goals. They stretch us. And making characters real is important. I find dialoguing with them is an enormous help and seeing the world through their eyes...
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Angela A. Jan 8, 2009, 9:57pm EST
Thanks Thelma. That snippet is actually for a short story series I wrote here on Gather.
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Shirley Ann Howard Jan 8, 2009, 9:58pm EST
I don't remember where I read it.... could have been on this forum. It was about less is more. Hemingway wrote the shortest book on record.... six words.

For sale.
Baby shoes.
Never worn.
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Thelma Mariano Jan 8, 2009, 10:00pm EST
I wonder if all the great writers - like Steinbeck - had to struggle with their words or if everything just flowed out that way. I never knew it was such hard work! But maybe that's me...
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Pat Bertram Jan 8, 2009, 10:00pm EST
And Ahem. Sy, you owe me a vote; you did not comment on my chapter two, but you can save it for when I post the first chapters of my novels at the end of the month.
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Sy g. Jan 8, 2009, 10:01pm EST
Actually I have no ambitions for fiction. I write that to entertain myself. I never expect to have any of it published.

But for my nonfiction, thats different. My ambition is to have a book sell enough to be able to talk about it, to have it talked about, to debate and discuss. I did a discussion of my first book at a think tank that was televised on CSPAN, and later I told my host, "I didnt come her to sell my book, I wrote the book, so I could come here."

Turns out that was the hight point, although I cant complain for a first book. I have hi