Israel’s Cynicism Supported by the West’s Complicity

I think that Hamas' guilt is that they gave them the chance to achieve their goal and attack innocents.

This is just going back and forth - cant people see the bigger picture. Most americans writing here seem pro Israel. They admit how evil their goverment has become (banking bailout, torture, etc.), but dont see anything wrong with that government's blind support from Israel. Has anyone ever asked WHY America supports Israel against the whole Middle East - not because arabs are terrorists ! - they only became terrorists after America supported Israel. So why ? Why do we support Israel blindly - start to think a little deeper instead of tit for tat acts !!!

I think the Jews need to be forced back across their borders and told to stay there. Israel is just a terrorist state with nukes.

Jack- There are no Israelis in Gaza anymore; Sharon removed all thier settlements years ago from there, many by force that wouldn't go voluntarily. They got rockets in return from Hamas.

"Israel is just a terrorist state with nukes"

When you have nukes you don't have to be "terrorist". This sentence doesn't go with itself.

Peter America and Britain are terrorist states with nukes and why doesn't it fit?

John only terrorists murder innocent people. Israel need to stop murdering children and sit down to the peace table or they will lose in the end.

I have yet to hear of an Israeli child with a bomb strapped to his body blowing up a busload of Palestinians. Israel's response is to the attacks on them. Do you have something against the Jews?

A suicide bomber sneaking into a crowd is terrorist. A standing army doing retaliation with its arsenal isn't. You may disagree with how that army is used (like I do with us in Iraq) but it isn't terrorist. You can't just slap the same word on everything.

Israel kills children? Hamas just blew up two of its own trying to send bombs over to Israel that it had no idea who it would blow up. There's plenty of death to go around (it IS war) but Israel is the only player who attempts to target its attacks.

Both sides WERE at the peace table and there was peace but Hamas just ruined it by lobbing missiles into Israel.

Who are we liberals defending ???

The only Jew haters Jeff are you anti Semitic fools that want to see both sides in never ending war.

Not the Jews or Islamic people Peter its all about money and a "sea of oil."

The peace talks fail Peter because Israel always breaks the peace by trying to steal more land that does not belong to them.

Their is no justification for murdering innocent unarmed women and children Peter, its nothing but terrorism just like the U.S. is doing in Iraq and Afghanistan. How many innocent people have to shed their blood before we realise our turn is coming very soon?

Do you have something against letting innocent women and children live in peace Mattisyahu? Playing bigot does not work with me. The people in Gaza have a right to live on their land without Israeli interference. Murdering innocent people does nothing to Hamas except help them recruit more troops to their side. Israel has no say in Islamic politics and if they want Hamas to lead them its their right.

If you want to talk about terrorist states why not start with the real ones like the Saudis that were responsible for 9/11? Maybe Libya and how Bush is sucking up to Qaddafi?

Jack:
> The peace talks fail Peter because Israel always breaks
> the peace by trying to steal more land that does not
> belong to them.

Really, like Israel itself, or what would you be talking about
here?

Maybe it is because Muslims are intolerent uncivilized
barbarians who cannot let anyone even each other live
in peace.

Tell me about how Israel has tried to grab land, I need
a good laugh.

You want a good laugh Bruce go somewhere else to find it. Show me where Israel has not stolen land before you try to make me look like a GOP moron again.

This is the first time in my life to hear that when someone kills your child, you kill thousands of other's children... This is the real intolerent uncivilized barbarian act, because it's unfair. And those intolerent uncivilized barbarians you're talking about won't take revenge by that way.

Jack, you made the accusation that Israel "always" breaks the peace, who broke the peace here?
Sure I will go away if you keep deleting my questions, but I do not think it is unreasonable or heaping too much on you to answer.

Israel broke the truce when they blockaded a ship carrying humanitarian aide to Gaza. Now tell me your version Bruce.

I do not make accusations Bruce and I do not read Washington propaganda or play party politics.

Israel should not be expected to allow arms to flow to the Palestinians when they are using them to attack Israel and kill Israelis.

The majority of the Palestinians are innocent victims, but to think that ends any analysis or is enough to blame Israel is absurd.

When a Palestinians spends any time with a Westerner they are informed on, told on to whatever their local government structure is. If they say anything that is critical of the Palestinian government or positive about the Israelis they can be accused of collaboration. If this happens they put their life their family's life at risk and many have been publicly tortured and murdered for it.

The nature of a totalitarian state is that innocents are ground up into the machine so that they are used militarily to the greatest extent they can be.

The ugly way out of this is to do what needs to be done, whatever the immediate damage,and then make sure that such a system is obliterated and never has the opportunity to enslave their people again.

The palistianians have no arms and have no way to defend themselves against high tech weapons.

The Jews will not gain anything buy murdering innocent people and the world is starting to look at the reality of what the Jews are doing which is carrying out terrorist attacks against innocent people. If the Jews want to fight with Hamas then they need to go after them in a different way not keep the murder going which will only cost them the cause they claim to be fighting for.

Thank God. If they did they would not need to defend themselves because they would be on the attack. As I said your idea of innocent is not so innocent.

What weapons do you think the Palestinian people have to use against Israel and its high tech weapons Bruce?

May 15th, 1948, combined Arab League armies and air forces from Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yeman, Libya and Jordan attack newly formed Israel, their targets were civilian homes in Tel Aviv. The bus station was attacked from the air. Neve Yakov a Tel Aviv Jewish suburb was attacked from the air.

... Page 93 of "Icon Of Evil" chapter "Mufti's Return To The Middle East".

Israel lost about 1% of its population in the war: 6,373 of its people. About 4,000 were soldiers and the rest were civilians ... that's 2,373 dead Israeli civilians.

Its a shame people do not see this same tragedy taking place in Iraq Bruce. Killing innocent civilians is just as bad for one side as the other. Bush has just finished murdering over a million innocent Iraqi civilians and not a tear shed.

Peace will only be achieved when both sides start controlling their radical leaders and get serious at the peace table.

Scott you do not come to my posts and use GOP name calling on me or anyone else posting .

After the 1917 British Balfour Declaration on a Jewish homeland in Palestine Theodore Weitzman prevailed upon the Paris Peace conference of 1919 to validate it under the new post WW1 Brit protectorate. In 1920 when the agreement became well known that the Jews were to establish a quasi-State the Arabs rioted. They continued in such protest through the 20's, 30's, 40's until the UN statehood vote. Obviously, resistance to the Jewish state is nothing new and has roots deeper and more intractable than Shi'ia/Sunni conflct.

IMO there never will be a complete acceptance in the Arab world of Israel's right to exist. What may happen in the long term bears largely upon a world of alternative energy and destroying the economic underpinnings of the Arab world. With the strategic interest of the world focused solely upon peace and not appeasemnt of the oil producing nations perhaps a framework of "peace" can be built. But unless the oil dynamic is removed there will never be progression.

I agree with you Sam. But I think under any circumstances rich countries like America and Britain should not suck up to these oil producing countries at any cost. You can't freely pay them and condemn them at the same time and although Iran is always talked about like the great evil Saudi Arabia is producing more terrorists than any other Middle East country and It was Saudi national that pulled off 9/11 not Afghanistan or Iraq.

We need to put a stop the the control our energy cons have over us and start producing alternative fuel, something that can be done at any time now.

The Palestinian people need to bring Hamas under control or remove them from power. Abbas is the best chance both sides have for peace and the Gaza people should start recognising it. Hamas can be taken out with a concerted effort by Israel and the Palestinians. If Hamas will not recognise another races right to exist then they need to go.

Jack,

If a violent criminal arrived at your door with a gun and began to shoot at your family, would you fight back or sing "Cumbaya"?

I would not take it out on other innocent people. If your trying to say its ok to murder innocent people your wrong.

It is never right to kill someone, with malice aforethought, who has not first threatened you. If every measure is taken to insure that no innocent victims will be killed in the process, even warning these innocents to leave the areas being attacked, then their deaths are a consequence of acting upon the right to self-defense. This is a very dire consequence, one I do not cast off lightly. But the fact remains that there will always be unwanted consequences to every decision made. Weighing this unwanted consequence (and a consequence that every effort was made to avoid, even putting Israeli soldiers at risk to save Palestinian lives) I believe the bombing of Hamas is warranted and needed.

And how do you justify herding unarmed civilians into a house and then shelling the house Mattisyahu?

What about the propaganda used to say the UN was launching missiles into Israel from the Gaza quarters?

Sources? or is it Hamas you are listening to? Or do you just hate the Jews?

Dear Jack E, you are so misinformed...Where are you getting your info from. Israel was declared a state by the UN on May 15 1948. Two states were created, one was called Israel and one was called Palestine. The next day, all of the 22 Arab states marched on to Israel, with its total aim was to destroy the fledgling jewish state and dump them into the sea. So the tiny nation of jews won over them. the arabs told the Palestinians to run away and they can return when the Arabs destroy the Jews.
Israel always sat down at the peace table, but the palestinian answer was 2 intafadias with stones being thrown at innocent people driving on the highways. Loads of innocent israelis were killed, destroyed innoncent lives with suicide bombers blowing up buses, walking into schools and killing innocent children studying, going into hotels and shooting up a passover sedar, going into disco's and blowing up innocent young people going out for a good time. In addition, Yassar Arafat met with President Clinton and Prime Minister Barak to form a peace treaty. Israel wanted to give the palestinians back about 80% of their tiny land. Do you know what Yasir Arafat said "NO" went home and started a full-bloomed intafadia.
Israel did not want to kill innocent people, but hamas forced them to because hamas were hiding among the the innocent. They were using these innocent civilians as "human shields" . Hamas is a cancer that has to be "excised." The arab nations just like to murder. They force the israelies to kill. The israelis kill because ever since their kind hearted prime minister forced it citizens to evacuate the Gaza, left greenhouses for the palestinians to tend to and use for an industry. What is the first thing the palestinians do, they burn down the greenhouses, burn down synagogues. Then the Hamas decided to launch rockets for the last 5 years into Israel proper, into Sderot, beer sheva, asdod, we sat quietly by begging them to stop. they never stopped. what would we do if canada or mexico lobbed rockets into our country on a daily basis. just s it by and allow our innocent citizens to be killed, injured, frightened and have to build shelters. Now hamas is rebuilding their tunnels in order to smuggle weapons under the egyptian border. why doesn''t egypt stop this...so far they have done nothing. They closed their borders so the innocent gazans can come in for safety and hospital care. Their own people do not want to get involved. So why do you care so much , if the arab nations did not come in to help the innocents stuck in gaza by the hamas terrorist group. Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt just sat on their hands doing nothing, Thats very interesting! The hamas put the innocent civilians in the schools, hospitals among their terrorists are shooting from the windows. Yes, lets have peace, but first we have to get rid of terrorist organizations who are preventing it.

I am not misinformed at all Marilyn and Israel was made a sovereign state in 1949 after the British broke their promise to the Jews and the UN took over.

The Islamic people attacked the Jews to try and get rid of invaders. Since then the Jews have kept trying to illegally expand into Islamic lands that were won by conquest the same excuse that America uses to validate stealing a country from native people.

What would you do if your country was attacked Marilyn?

The Jews have no business blockading humanitarian supply ships and don't try and tell me about the phony smuggling the Jews always bring up and can never prove. You supporters of murdering innocent people never want to talk about the phony claims made by these criminal expansionists but its all there like "the UN was firing missiles into Israel." What about the home the Jews herded unarmed people into and then shelled? The Jews are sounding more and more like Nazis each time they start attacking innocent unarmed people. Even the British are talking about stopping arms shipments to the Jews because they use them to murder innocent people.

Unlike you Mattisyahu I am not a bigot and murdering innocent people is not right for the Jews or any other race. If you cant post anything relevant to back up what you say don't bother at all.

every piece of land that the israelis won in the 67 war was because egypt was ready to attack israel, so israel attacked first and won these lands fair and square. since then, they have tried to give back these pieces of territory , trading them for recognition of the state of israel, but yassar arafat and hamas refuse to settle for peace. they would rather kill, maim and destroy babies, children, adults both young and old. israel gave them back gaza so what do they do, they shoot rockets into israel killing many civillians. hamas has been doing a good job in murdering innocent people, even their own whom they are using for "human shields." Why can't the jews fight back, are we to just sit by and quietly be massacred which i'm sure you would love. have a good night jack e. I just had an idea why don't you go to the gaza and help hamas out , i'm sure they would love to have you on their team.

You are absolutely wrong, israel became a state on may 15, l948. i i don't know where you are getting your information from. Probably from the Hamas Murder Journal, thats if they can write.

Nobody wins by murdering innocent people Marilyn and you need to check closer how much land Jewish settlers have stolen from Islamic people by crossing borders and than claiming it for their own. The Jews need to stop making excuses they cannot prove like the UN launching missiles into Israel.

WWII is over and you people need to get off the pity pot and if you want to blame anyone for the 11,000,000 people murdered in the death camps blame the Bush family they are the ones that supplied Hitler so he could carry it out.

Bush family???

Marilyn...couldn't have said it better.

Sheri are you dumb to your own country history? You need to do some history research on these Bush crimelords before you ask a fool question like that.

Sheri, George W. Bush great grand father supplied steel for Hitler's war machine and also supplied the chemicals used to murder 11 million innocent people, his business was taken away by the government when FDR got a bill passed that made war profiteering illegal. You have to look in other places for history besides party politics that try to hide their criminal activity.

Jack, yes, I do need to do some more history research. Now, am I dumb about my own country history? No, I'm not. There is so much out there to learn and at least I ask questions. Dumb people don't ask the questions. I agree with you that I need to look in other places for history besides party politics. I truly try to keep an open mind. It would be nice if when people ask questions, you wouldn't call them dumb, but offer your opinions and facts. When you mentioned the Bush family last night, I became curious to investigate what you posted. Thanks for that part.

"Thank God. If they did they would not need to defend themselves because they would be on the attack. As I said your idea of innocent is not so innocent" Bruce that is just typical bigotry against innocent people.

And where is your proof that a humanitarian aid ship is carrying weapons to Hamas? Or is this just the typical GOP approach to war profiteering?

I appoligise Sheri I did not try to hurt your feelings.

The Bush family has a history of treason that goes back before WWII and war profiteering has always been their business.

Its hard to keep up with everything happening in the world but people should know the history of the people they vote for.

Weather you vote for Bush or not is your private business but everyone needs to know what kind of a politician the candidate is when they say "trust me."

I agree Jack, but my response...Bush Family??...had not a thing to do with voting for him or not. Thank you for apologizing. You didn't hurt my feelings, but I didn't like you calling me dumb about my country's history because I am an open person. When I ask questions about posts here or responses, I'm trying to educate myself or maybe I'm just curious.

This is just going back and forth - cant people see the bigger picture. Most americans writing here seem pro Israel. They admit how evil their goverment has become (banking bailout, torture, etc.), but dont see anything wrong with that government's blind support from Israel. Has anyone ever asked WHY America supports Israel against the whole Middle East - not because arabs are terrorists ! - they only became terrorists after America supported Israel. So why ? Why do we support Israel blindly - start to think a little deeper instead of tit for tat acts !!! Thinks conspiracy theories, maybe. I dont know...