by Julia Schrenkler
Member since:
August 31, 2005

Open discussion on the Minnesota Recount: You play election judge and decide if the lizard people win

November 21, 2008 03:43 PM UTC
views: 0 | comments: 43

 

 

If you were a Minnesota Senate Recount election judge, would a write in for Lizard People cancel a vote for Al Franken?

 

 

 

 

 

At time of writing, 60% of the people taking the opinion poll said Al Franken gets the vote, 31% said the vote should be rejected, and 8% are Lizard People supporters. What does this say about our voting system? Considering that the Senate election outcome may rest with challenged ballots, I'm wondering what opinions or perspectives you can share.

 

Note: You're welcome to take the quiz on each of our featured challenged ballots - the page updates with new ones as we discover them. I'd like the discussion to happen here!

Resoures that may help you play election judge:
* Examine the Minnesota State Statute on "Determining Voter's Intent"
* MPR's Senate Recount Coverage Collection

 

This is an open discussion - Gather post / image / video links are welcome. Your related articles or comments may be quoted as part of http://www.mpr.org/your_voice

________________
Julia Schrenkler
Interactive Producer
Minnesota Public Radio
American Public Media
Objects in Mirror

Comments: 43

I have no idea what Minnesota rules on valid ballots are. Looks to me like the Franken bubble is filled in. That looks like a vote for Franken. Minnesota rules may be different from Katz rules. I assume Minnesota rules apply in Minnesota even though mine are, by definition, better whenever there's a difference.
BTW, who are/is Lizard People? It's hands down the coolest name on the ballot.
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 3:57pm UTC
Nippy, according to the feature, the county auditor/treasurer ruled that the vote should not be counted because it's considered an overvote. The voter wrote in "Lizard People" in multiple places, and the Minnesota State Statute on voter intent says

Subd. 4.Name written in proper place.

If a voter has written the name of an individual in the proper place on a general or special election ballot a vote shall be counted for that individual whether or not the voter makes a mark (X) in the square opposite the blank.


Knowing that, would you count it an overvote because the X by Franken's name?
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 3:59pm UTC
I'm almost afraid to answer at length on the Lizard People. The Wikipedia entry on David Icke is a start.

Some of the other ballots are smudged thumbprints, Xs in strange spots, arrows pointing to another candidate name.... whew.
I'd go with the county official. I think the rule is ill advised. It may be in the ballot instructions but I'd never expect people to read them. :)

I hope the election doesn't come down to a few ballots like this.

One of my fondest memories of Al Franken comes from the little Op/Ed parodies he did on SNL which all came down to what people could do for "me, Al Franken." On the last show of 1979 (or maybe it was 1980) he gave a nice talk about the 80s being "the decade of me, Al Franken." Since greed and selfishness became the theme of the 80s I have to give him credit/blame for getting the ball rolling.
Thanks for the link to Icke. I'd never heard of him before. Some football players suffer severe head trauma with lifelong effects. :)
Ms. Meacham: Money Maven Nov 21, 2008, 4:07pm UTC
Interesting conundrum. Sounds like the law spells out that the write-in counts, whether or not the circle is filled in. My thought is that the person likely filled in Lizard People first and then went through and realized that Al Frankin was on the ticket... He/she would have had to request a replacement ballet at that point, and we all know what a pain that can be!!!
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 4:08pm UTC
"It may be in the ballot instructions but I'd never expect people to read them." - Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom

That's quite interesting... even in a post-Florida 2000 voting world?
I lived in Illinois when I was in high school. Chicago used voting machines but the rest of the state used paper ballots that people marked by hand. I remember newspaper articles on invalidated ballots. The rules required an "X" in the box. Ballots that were thrown out had problems like check marks and Xs that went outside the box.

Real life penalty for coloring outside the lines.
I don't expect people to read the instructions to anything. :)
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 4:11pm UTC
Ms. Meacham, that's one theory! It looks like the voter consistently added Lizard People to the ballot.

Considering the tension around this year's election I'd like to think people would request a replacement ballot, but hey.
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 4:15pm UTC
"Real life penalty for coloring outside the lines." - Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom

Question is - who pays? The voter, who lost their voice by this? The candidate? The public?

Considering the massive amount of money that went into this campaign, I'm just imagining how campaign staffers feel during this recount.
Peter Joseph Swanson Nov 21, 2008, 4:15pm UTC
It looks to me like they tried to cross out their Al vote and wanted Lizard People instead. As much as I HATE that gross smarmy phony icky nasty Norm Coleman, this is a weird ballot by a weirdo and should be tossed.
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 4:16pm UTC
You think it will end up in court, Jim? So far both campaigns are pleased with the recount.
Peter Joseph Swanson Nov 21, 2008, 4:16pm UTC
I messed up my ballot and got a replacement. I wasn't even embarrassed. I wanted it CLEAR I was not even THINKING for a second of voting for McCain/Palin.
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 4:17pm UTC
What makes you say the vote for Franken was crossed out, Peter? The circle next to Lizard People isn't filled in, although it is in another race... I'm just curious.
Peter Joseph Swanson Nov 21, 2008, 4:19pm UTC
It just looked to me like it was filled in proper and then it looks like an x is over it. But then Lizard People has the very same thing for it. So it's just a weird ballot, by a weirdo.
Peter Joseph Swanson Nov 21, 2008, 4:22pm UTC
- And then when written the second time the circle is empty. I think that because this ballot is so distinctive, they should try and track down the person who did it, and ask what the un-holy heck they were trying to say - because yes, it is confusing.
Peter Joseph Swanson Nov 21, 2008, 4:22pm UTC
(but then I bet a lot of idiots would come forward and say "it's mine, it's mine!!!")
جيرسي جو Nov 21, 2008, 4:22pm UTC
Paper ballots are still used in Minnesota? OMG, no wonder they can't figure this thing out.
James C. Nov 21, 2008, 4:29pm UTC
One cannot vote for two candidates. The ballot shown clearly does just that in spite of the fact that one of them does not exist. I would not count that vote as valid even though I would like very much to see Franken win that one!
John Knight Nov 21, 2008, 4:32pm UTC
Maybe Al is one of the Lizard People . . . ?
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 4:35pm UTC
"(but then I bet a lot of idiots would come forward and say "it's mine, it's mine!!!")" - Peter Joseph Swanson

I'm sort of surprised there isn't a Lizard People voter blog up yet. The joke campaign has probably already started...
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 4:37pm UTC
"Paper ballots are still used in Minnesota? OMG, no wonder they can't figure this thing out." - ?????? ???

Yep. Although the ballot reader machineis supposed to sound a warning beep if a ballot is poorly done, and sample ballots/instructions are available - at least they were at my polling place.
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 4:39pm UTC
"Maybe Al is one of the Lizard People . . . ?" - John Knight

I'm sure people are called worse things during political campaigns.
Beryl Singleton Bissell Nov 21, 2008, 5:03pm UTC
Well, as the little oval has not been filled in, even though the Lizard People got a vote, I'd say it's invalid.
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 5:08pm UTC
You're in line with the county auditor/treasurer, Beryl.
Peter Joseph Swanson Nov 21, 2008, 5:11pm UTC
I'm so glad I'm not an election judge.
Julia Schrenkler Nov 21, 2008, 5:18pm UTC
Can you imagine, Peter? It must be very intense, and there's so much scrutiny.
Kerry Dexter Nov 21, 2008, 5:42pm UTC
remembering back to being in Tallahassee during all the election stuff in 2000.., holiday lights strung up on the satellite trucks is a memory that makes me smile. good luck with sorting all this out.
Jeff H. Nov 21, 2008, 9:27pm UTC
Well considering the intelligence of the average democrat voter and their inability to learn the ever confusing voting machine and butterfly ballot , I would have to give the "lizard people" vote to Franken.
Chris Wiegard Nov 21, 2008, 9:29pm UTC
Julia- You have to get a ten for this one from anybody with a soul. not only is this about something important, but you picked a wonderfully colorful example with the lizard people.

Lizard people, what the heck??!!!
Miz Lynn aka/BooBoo Nov 21, 2008, 11:22pm UTC
Mr and Mrs Lizard People were my neighbors in SW Minnesota when I lived there, could be part of the reason I moved?? ;))

I'd say dump the whole ballot.
Robert G. Nov 22, 2008, 7:47am UTC
Revote!!!
Steve Tiffany Nov 22, 2008, 10:55am UTC
"If a voter has written the name of an individual in the proper place on a general or special election ballot a vote shall be counted for that individual whether or not the voter makes a mark (X) in the square opposite the blank."

If there's no person in Minnesota named 'Lizard People,' then the voter has written in a category or group, not the name of an individual, so the vote for Franken should be counted.

Though as a general rule, supporters of earth's enslavement by our Reptillian overlords voted for Coleman.
Dorothy H. Nov 22, 2008, 12:53pm UTC
I rejected no ballots, and easily gave some votes to Colemen, some to Fraken, and the other guy, whose name I cannot remember.
"Question is - who pays? The voter, who lost their voice by this? The candidate? The public?"

Hard to say, isn't it. I think you have to accept that there will be a certain percentage of spoiled ballots when you use paper ones. In the vast majority of contests it doesn't matter one way or the other. I look at it as something similar to having a criminal justice system that lets some guilty people go free in order to protect the rights of the accused.

People aren't very good at following directions. Often they don't read them. Voting is a great example of a situation where a system isn't enough to insure perfect results. Think of the systems that have been tried and are currently in use.
Julia Schrenkler Nov 24, 2008, 12:32pm UTC
"...good luck with sorting all this out." - Kerry Dexter

Thanks Kerry, we'll need it.

***

Jeff H., something tells me you have interesting political discussions here on Gather. Just a hunch!

***

Chris W., someone came forward to claim the vote. I'm not sure whether or not his statement answers your question.
Julia Schrenkler Nov 24, 2008, 12:35pm UTC
"I'd say dump the whole ballot." Miz Lynn aka/BooBoo

You're not alone in that statement, several people have shared a similar opinion.

***

Robert G., one commentary wondered about revote.

***
Steve Tiffany, as I told Jeff H... something tells me you have interesting political discussions here on Gather. Possibly with Jeff!
Julia Schrenkler Nov 24, 2008, 12:37pm UTC
Dorothy H., thanks for trying your hand at being an election judge and for following up with us here!

***

"I think you have to accept that there will be a certain percentage of spoiled ballots when you use paper ones. In the vast majority of contests it doesn't matter one way or the other." - Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom

Good point, Nippy. It does become a rather dramatic issue when we're dealing with those races that hinge on less than 300 votes!
Winston Smith Nov 25, 2008, 1:52pm UTC
If you were a union school teacher in a small town and voted for Coleman, would you be worried if the Franken campaign got to look at your disallowed absentee ballot?

Why does the Franken Campaign get to look at who people voted for?

I guess the Democrats don't like secret ballots in general elections, or union elections either.

Join the Conversation
Chime in! Become a Gather member to comment.
Already a member? Sign in
top
 
Gather | Friends | Groups | Share
About Gather | Engagement Marketing | Gather Points | Advertise on Gather | Gather Press | Privacy | Terms of Service | Community Guidelines
Books | Business | Celebs | Entertainment | Family | Food | Giveaways | Health | Money | Moms | News | Politics | Sports | Style | Technology | Travel | Writing
Version 18247, "Zach"; Copyright © 2013 Gather Inc. All rights reserved.