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by David K.
Member since:
April 29, 2007

Innovation Futures - The Future of the War on Terror

November 12, 2008 04:44 PM EST (Updated: November 12, 2008 05:00 PM EST)
views: 386 | rating: 10/10 (14 votes) | comments: 114

We've been in the War on Terror for over 7 years now, assuming it started on or about 9/11/2001.  We've gone after al Qaeda (though didn't get bin Laden).  We've fought wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, with forays into places like the Yemen, Somalia, and the mountains of western Pakistan.  The question remains, has it worked?  Or to paraphrase something former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld once said "are we creating more terrorists than we are killing?"

I offer for discussion the following thoughts.  These are not a policy for which I am advocating, but rather a series of slightly less than random ideas on how we can more innovatively wage the war on terror.  Please feel free to disagree, expand, expound, and by all means, offer your own ideas.

1) First, drop the "war on terror" moniker.  Frankly, it suggests that all terrorism is the same.  It is not.  And as such it needs to be dealt with differently.  The moniker has become trite, which isn't helpful.

2) Al qaeda does not equate with all terrorists. Listening to our political leaders, one would be hard pressed to think that everyone who does something that can be deemed terrorism is somehow linked to al qaeda.  Kind of a "six degrees of Kevin Bacon" game.  The truth is that our political leaders want to lump everyone together because it makes it easier to communicate the concept of "war on terror" (see item 1). But doing so both makes it difficult to deal appropriately with the different groups, it also gives al Qaeda a kind of "rock star" status that then can used as a rallying cry.

3) Marginalize al Qaeda. Fareed Zakaria in his new book "The Post-American World" suggests that the al Qaeda leadership has basically already been limited to public relations stunts.  Every so often a video or audio tape arises to rile up the loyal followers.  But they have been had to decentralize their operations to the point where control of terrorist operations now happens at a local level.  In a way this is worse - it is easier to cut out a tumor as a whole than it is to get the cancer once it metastasizes and spreads throughout the body/world.  On the other hand, we can exploit the fact that these operations are out there alone.  Perhaps we can convince them that most of the community thinks of them as "the losers of the neighborhood" rather than the martyrs.

4) Do the same for the other terrorist groups. All of these organizations represent a small minority of the people in their communities.  Sure, much of the community might sympathize with them, but in reality they do so mostly out of either fear (think al Qaeda in Iraq, AQI) or because the terrorist organization is providing more social services (schools, roads, safety) than the government.  Think Hamas and Hezbollah. 

5) Go after the money.  This is one area for which President Bush should get a heckofalot more credit.  By cutting off their funding trails, the President has effectively kept millions of dollars from getting to people who would engage in terrorist acts.

6) Think antibiotics, not OTC.  Most over-the-counter (OTC) medicines treat the symptoms, and let the body's natural defenses actually deal with the disease.  Antibiotics go to the root fo the problem itself, at the source of the infection.  Consider "the surge" in Iraq.  The increase in troop numbers gets all the press, but in reality this was merely the OTC remedy for the symptoms (i.e., IEDs, car bombs, sectarian violence).  Additional OTC efforts included physical separation (segregration) of Sunni and Shia.  However, much of the success attributed to "the surge" actually was the result of greater attention to the root problems facing the people.  The "Sunni Awakening," which started well before the troop surge, and the negotiated suspension of hostilities of Muqtada al-Sadr's Mahdi army, did more to reduce violence than any increase in troops (though all of these factors obviously acted synergistically).  The bottom line is that we worked with the Sunni leadership in Anbar province to deal with a mutual enemy (AQI made the tactical mistake of killing more Iraqis than Americans).

7) Admit that we like Muslims.  On its surface this sounds a bit silly, or perhaps bigoted.  What I mean is that the Islamic world, and much of the non-Islamic world, cannot help but think the US hates them.  President Bush, in a catastrophically poor choice of words, even used the word "crusade" in first describing this new war on terror.  Our rhetoric often includes phrases such as "they hate our freedoms," "Islamic jihad," "Islamic fundamentalism," and even "Islamic fascists."  Emails bantered about the supposed former history as a "Muslim" by our new President-elect, in such a way as to use someone's religion (when they weren't accusing him of being a radical Christian) as a pejorative.  But as Ret. General and former Secretary of State Colin Powell said recently, "the really right answer is:  What if he is?  Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country?  The answer is:  No."  Islam is the fastest growing religion in the United States and the world.  I have friends who are Muslim (and Jewish and Christian and Buddhist and athiest) and they are just like everyone else...they don't hate America.  They do, as does much of the world right now, wonder what the hell our problem is (but that is another post).  My point, of course, is that if we demonize people, they will feel like, and act like, demons.  And for the record, that is exactly how the rest of the world thinks of us...as demons who are so self-serving that we don't respect the rights of others.  Frankly, that's not a real good place to be if we want to call ourselves world leaders.

7) Go green. Okay, this one looks out of place, doesn't it? But it actually may be one of the most important things we can do to fight terrorism (IMHO).  Much of the strife on the planet right now has one source - our addiction to oil.  Sure, there is sectarian strife, cultural strife, caste-based strife, etc.  But much of that is also related to the fact that oil = riches and development (think Dubai), no oil = poverty and struggle (think India).  By finding alternative - and sustainable - sources of energy we will remove much of the bases for conflict.  Can we do it?

Okay, I could probably write more, but as some who know me, I would probably write more.  :)

So, what do you think?  Is this an innovative new way of fighting the "war on terror?"  Or am I just rambling?

Posted in Innovation Futures, Political Futures, and Gather it All and Share it with Your Friends.

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Comments: 114

John Doyle Nov 12, 2008, 4:51pm EST
We are having as much success with the war on terror as we have had with the war on drugs and perhaps for the same reasons
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Paul M. Nov 12, 2008, 4:54pm EST
I definitely think "war on terror" is doomed to fail. You can't fight abstract concepts, much as the US couldn't defeat communism in Korea/Vietnam or drugs in South America. You have to know who your enemy is and it has to be something tangible.
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 4:56pm EST
My sense is that we raise al Qaeda up on a pedestal, which gives it more, not less, influence. If we aggressively point out that they kill more Muslims than non-Muslims, I think they will lose some of their luster.
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Jodie B. Nov 12, 2008, 5:16pm EST
Very good points, David. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
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Jack E. Nov 12, 2008, 5:17pm EST
The war on terror can never be won by attacking innocent countries. We have a war on terror going on in Washington and that is the first war we need to win before we attack any more innocent people.
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 5:23pm EST
You're welcome Jodie. As I noted, I'm not proclaiming to have answers...just ideas. I'm hoping we can stimulate some additional thoughts that at some point will become a groundswell and result in new policy. (Is that being idealistic? Probably. But you have to start somewhere, right).
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 5:25pm EST
Jack - I'd be the first to acknowledge I think we botched this badly. But I'm also a realist. We certainly have ideological rhetoric...but what gets lost is that we all want the same things - a safe and relatively equal opportunity to raise our kids in peace and prosperity. Where we differ is how to get there.
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 5:33pm EST
Bunny - I won't get into the profit motive, just because it's a road that is never ending. But I will reiterate my point above that we need to remove our need to engage in conflict over the availability of oil. That is a given. How we do that is a bit more difficult to figure out.
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 5:36pm EST
John above raises an excellent point. We've been in a "war on drugs" for decades. Do we have less drugs? I think it would be hard to find anyone who could definitively say we have. In fact, we spend huge amounts of money supporting Columbia's battle against the drug cartels. And yet, drugs are not particularly difficult to find on the streets, if the reports out of the DEA are to be believed. So is it worth it? Is it effective? Is there a better way?
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Rosa See Ya Nov 12, 2008, 6:11pm EST
Our first mistake was actually naming an axis of evil.

If evil is branded, it thinks of weapons, and if we do it the favor of fighting against it blow for blow, we lose in the end because thus we ourselves get entangled in hatred and passion. (I-Ching#43)

Diplomacy is the key. You can't go around calling names and not expect to get a black eye sooner or later. And..... you can't act like the bully on the block and get away with it for long. Someone will, at some point, call you out, and then you won't be king-on-the-hill much longer.
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 6:22pm EST
Rosa - Love your new icon!

This is my worry. That we artificially enhance the celebrity of those we highlight, when in fact we should be marginalizing them.
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Julia Star Nov 12, 2008, 6:38pm EST
I think one way to think about this subject is to acknowledge that mankind has always had to fight a war on terror and always will. I'd like to see the news stop harping on what a scary place this is and focus a little more on what a wonderful place it is. Send a reporter out to do a story about bringing in the potato harvest rather than constantly dwelling on some awful thing that happened five states over.
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 6:44pm EST
My feeling is that by making it a "war" we are giving them more power than they have. It makes it seem as if it is all consuming, when in fact, we should be making it seem as if they are the outcasts.
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Gary L. Nov 12, 2008, 6:47pm EST
RSA is right. A lot of the rhetoric coming from this president has been steered towards firing up the lynch mob. And, now, we have an unruly uprising of those intent of killing those who done us wrong.

The fact is terrorist is a crime and we have laws that deal with this quite nicely. And, it does not raise the perps to martyr status.

As for oil--this is the black death. Energy is something a great society needs and oil is easy to exploit. If you have it, you get rich, if you don't, you have to pay for it. Solar is much more difficult for greed people to exploit. Thus, every greedy oilman has lobbied hard to keep the idea of solar energy out of the mainstream.

I think we can overcome this problem, but it will require some hard choices and possibly some hard times.
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 6:51pm EST
Well said Candace. We tend to paint a large swath of people with a very broad brush.

I started, but never finished, writing a piece as an analogy to archaelology. We tend to bring in a bulldozer, when what we really need is the tiny pick and toothbrush, to do the job that needs to be done. Trouble is, a bulldozer destroys as much good as it does bad. A toothbrush may take longer, but it gets to the heart of the issue without destroying the goodwill around it.
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 6:54pm EST
Gary - Your first paragraph reveals a big part of the problem. A mob loses sight of perspective. We need to be smart, not fall into their trap. Which is exactly what we have done to date, in my opinion.
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Rosa See Ya Nov 12, 2008, 6:56pm EST
Thanks David, I like Einstein a lot, and I am in thinker mode right now. LOL

Candace, I know you are right. Condi Rice had no problem conveying the policy of the Bush administration, she openly said they all thought democracy in Iraq was the key to the Middle East. That's just not gonna get it. We just need to get to a point where we treat all humans as human, and have a desire to live on earth as though it belongs to ALL of us, because actually, it does.
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 7:06pm EST
Rosa - I highly encourage being in "thinker mode" as much as possible (though admit that my brain goes on hiatus more often than I would care to admit).

Candace - My pleasure. I'm hoping for any new ideas that will help us reach our common goals.
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David K. Nov 12, 2008, 7:09pm EST
Rosa - I like how you put that " we just need to get to a point where we treat all humans as human..." It seems we forget that too often. I marveled at how easily it was for people to completely dehumanize others during the campaign. It was actually a bit scary that we could actually think other Americans were somehow not quite good enough for the rest of us...not for their policies, but for them as people.

The other point you made is equally insightful. To me it seems simply illogical that we could force democracy on another country. By definition, isn't democracy something that the people must force on their government? It just seems like a major disconnect to me.
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John Doyle Nov 12, 2008, 7:16pm EST
Islamic terriorists are gangsters. We in our infinate wisdom have elevated them to the statis of nation state. With that attitude we can never defeat them because we can't find the their nation
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Gordon Swanson Nov 12, 2008, 7:17pm EST
I believe that much of our problems are due to the media. They have to make a big thing of everything to get their story out in front of all the others. Suppose we just forget all the hipe and come up with some simple ideas that might work. The brains right here on Gather are maybe much better then those on the solutions for the governments.

1. We should forget the people killing for their reasons, and eliminate these reasons. After all our large wars, we forgave the enemy and helped him to rebuild his country. What would happy if we put out a notice to the terror groups that we wish no more fight with them. If them come out and join their country's rebuilding and government, we will help them like we did the Germans, etc.

I can accept this because our old enemies killed many more of our people, and now live beside me as good friends. Walk in their shoes and I may be the one that is fighting against the country that is winning over us considering us as revolutionairs supporting the continuation of our country. Would we not fight for our country is it was losin to another?

2. Elimination of drugs may by the easist thing we can do. How long would the drugs be worth the money people are spending if we purchase the drugs, and resell the drugs that we capture to the users at low cost. Consider the bootleger, when the government again allowed people to drink in the open, they lost too much money to continue. The money went into our governments where it could be used instead.

3. I forgot what it was going to be, but with your help there is no end to my list. All you need to do is add your number and ideas and we wil present them to our governing people and ask them if they have better ideas we would like them to use them.
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Georgiana S. Nov 12, 2008, 7:18pm EST
Isn't just using the word 'war' coming down to the level of the terrorists?
This has all been going on more than since 9/11. Yemen, the ship that was bombed and the first WTC bombings. plus much farther back, in the countries in the Middle East specifically, oh and Bali.
But before 9/11 we fought them in their own countries. We didn't bring it here and make it a fear in everybody's minds, a reason to hate those who are different. Killing propigates killing. why not concede that there are different religions, different countries and different cultures and stop trying to force democracy down everybodies throats. It only make the infidels mad! Remember the crusades?
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''The One & Only BERF" .. Nov 12, 2008, 7:22pm EST
I feel like things have gone on for so long that, even if they captured Osama bin Laden, everybody would say "So what???"................
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Larry M. Nov 12, 2008, 7:33pm EST
I have some suggestions myself.

1) Repair as much infrastructure in Iraq (and Afgahnistan) as possible by paying the local citizens to do the repairs. Do not contract with anyone. Just announce that if someone builds or otherwise improves things we will pay. We can start small with things already planned and work our way up quickly. Pay whoever does the work after the work is done and so long as the benefits from that work are being realized.

This has several good consequences. They like being paid and don't want us to stop. Everyone is motivated to improve things since we pay anyone AFTER THE FACT. The better job they do the more we pay. If their work is destroyed the pay stops. That motivates them to protect what they build. Also, we look like good guys for improving the neighborhood. (Also pay for rebuilding houses of worship.)

2) Buy lots of things from local merchants. Especially things that are intended for export. (We don't want to price the locals out of the market for things they need.)

3) Pay for peaceful neighborhoods. Pay the police and local religious authorities. Not a lot at any one time but enough to be noticable so they will hate to lose the money. If strife breaks out and the police do well, pay for that as well, especially if any police are injured or killed in the line of duty.

4) In our relations with Isreal and Palestine tell each that we will provide support to both, equally. If there is violence, both sides lose money. For each day of peace, they get supplies. Pay for joint projects which benefit both Isreal and Palestine residents. As above, don't contract ahead of time, just announce the willingness to pay and pay after the fact for results. Pay as low in the hierarchy as possible, directly to those who do the grunt work if possible. This boosts their economy.

Send hospital ships off the coast of Palestine to treat the children of the poor. If there is violence, pull the ships out for a time. The greater the violence, the longer they are gone. Make these conditions known ahead of time.

The most important thing to do is make the two groups have mutual interests in which neither can benefit without the other. Any cooperation needs to be rewarded (again at the lowest level possible, not the leaders). So long as they see their interests as being in conflict they will be enemies.
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Gordon Swanson Nov 12, 2008, 7:42pm EST
Larry, This is good Gather thinking and now how do we get people to respond this way?
Our government can not see things up close. It has to be a billion dollar construction with the larger contractor so they can have lots of brag rights.
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donna h. Nov 12, 2008, 7:43pm EST
good post
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Jenny D. Nov 12, 2008, 9:27pm EST
Thanks for sharing!
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Robert S. Nov 12, 2008, 9:43pm EST
Good thoughts from all. The new guys in town will hopefully consider a much larger variety of options other than the walk loudly and carry a big stick philosophy of our current administration.

I saw the movie "W" today. What a guy.
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Linda A. Nov 12, 2008, 10:00pm EST
There is NO war on terror - it's a war on our freedoms.

Bin Laden has been dead since 02 already - his brother said he's dead (saw the You Tube Video)

Bhenito (sp?) from Pakistan, said who killed him and a week later, she was assassinated (was all over You Tube when it happened).

In the last vid of Bin Laden, they show him in, he was much younger, beard no longer as gray, and he looked healthy. Bin Laden was on dialysis and looked gaunt in his first video! Can you picture them moving him, on a stretcher, from cave to cave with THAT machine in tow?

Al Qaeda is actually a break off group of our own CIA - all fake to keep everyone living in fear and willing to give up more freedom.

If you want a REAL history lesson, and learn how all our leaders are connected - the traitors who run our country - go here:

http://www.skolnicksreport.com/
-how they tried to kill Gore
-why they stole the election
-Obama's chief of Staff and much more:

First - background on reporter and method of info gathering:
http://www.skolnicksreport.org/bio.html

then:

#1 http://www.skolnicksreport.com/chinesesp.html

#2 http://www.skolnicksreport.com/chinesesp2.html {pay attention to Rahmbo here}

#3 http://www.skolnicksreport.com/chinesesp3.html

===========================================================
-why they killed JFK
-why they killed John-John

#1 http://www.skolnicksreport.com/goldenboy.html

#2 http://www.skolnicksreport.com/goldenboy2.html (PAY HEED RAHBO WAS HERE TOO!!)

#3 http://www.skolnicksreport.com/goldenboy3.html

#4 http://www.skolnicksreport.com/goldenboy4.html
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Linda A. Nov 12, 2008, 10:04pm EST
Go Green? Check out the previous websites - it's war for profit - it's GREED, not Green. More scientists state there is NO global warming, it's just part of the cycle we are going through.

In the 1950's, they were warning about an "ice age". It's about taking all of our money for the U.N. to continue the plan of world dominance. Obama will finish us off...
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David H. Nov 12, 2008, 10:54pm EST
I think we need a body double for Bin Laden and have the Double doing some very unMuslim things. Relatively inexpensive and hypocrasy is the fastest way to curb his influence.
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Randy W. Nov 12, 2008, 11:20pm EST
David, A thoughtful post. A few comments ...

1. Drop the "war on terror" label. We now need to clearly identify who the enemy is to be able to communicate it to our own people and the world.

2. Al Qaeda. If we are at war with Al Qaeda in Iraq, Pakistan, and the Philippines, and their governments are joining the fight, then it is the "War with Al Qaeda" (see #1).

3. Marginalize. I believe your suggestion is naive, since the support of Al Qaeda is based on ideology. The millions of $ coming out of Saudi Arabia (carried by potential suicide bombers) is not going to change because a bunch of Christians start spreading candy around Al Qaeda's neighborhoods. We originally said we would go after "state supporters of terrorism, which includes the Saudi royal family and others. We didn't do it, so the "War on Terror" became just another Clinton "We will hunt the killers down" threat with no action to back it up. We need to restate our policy to the state supporters of terrorism, name them when we are prepared, and go after them.

7. We don't "like" or dislike all Muslims, so a PR campaign is naive. CAIR and others are propaganda experts, so PR won't win minds and hearts. We need to identify those in the Muslim faith that preach terrorism, mosque by mosque, mullah by mullah, charitable organization by charitable organization, and shut them down. In most cases the Muslims in the area are being bullied by Wahabbis backed by Saudi money, and we need to use the same tactics that worked when gangs ruled the neighborhoods in New York and Chicago. When the radical Muslims are gone, the rest of the community will thank us.
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Sharon K. Nov 12, 2008, 11:39pm EST
David Great article! Very insightful and well thought out!

Have a great night!
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 1:31am EST
Thanks all...I'm just getting up and rushing off to work, but will try to come back and respond to your great comments. Keep suggesting ideas.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 1:42am EST
One thought - Part of my premise is that al Qaeda and other groups are the "leaders" of the "global terror network" in part because we help elevate them to that level. Terrorism only works if we are terrified. And yet the economic reaction (as one measure) to terrorist incidents (e.g., 9/11, Madrid train bombings, Bali, London train bombings, etc.) has become more muted each time. People return to "normal life" more quickly. In other words, the "terror" is less effective.

Don't get me wrong, I am by no means suggesting some naive "let's all just be friends" attitude. Seeing that in my statements means either that I am not writing coherently enough or people aren't reading deeply enough. There are real terrorists out there and they mean us real harm. They control and/or inspire hatred against us, and those zealots want very much to destroy us. But to fight them we have to be honest with ourselves about who and what exactly is the threat. I don't think we've been doing that entirely (but agree that we have been doing that partially).

Finding and dealing with the root causes is the key, IMHO. If all we do is trim the shrubs every year, we will have the same shrub to trim the next year, and the next. But if we cut off the shrub at the root, then the root will cease to grow.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 1:49am EST
David H - An interesting idea. I doubt anyone would volunteer to be the body double though. If one side doesn't pick him off the other side would, whether he did good or bad things.

But you make an excellent point. The more the world supports good, the less impact those who support bad will have. Right now groups like al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, and the others in Indonesia, Malaysia, and elsewhere (many of which I can't spell) have an audience that responds because they have been, and often remain, oppressed. Oppressed people are willing to trade a bad system for a different system, and take their chances that it won't be as bad. Or it might be that they have no political or military power to resist. We've seen this as a political or military problem that can rectified by regime change or military intervention. Iraq has shown us, and the rest of the world, that military prowess, even that of the US, has its limits. The real problem is social. If people can get food, housing, and raise their kids (instead of burying them) then they don't volunteer to be suicide bombers.
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Bruce K. Nov 13, 2008, 3:30am EST
OK, the war on terror is not a good name ... what is your alternative? This is not a trivial questions of coming up with a slogan, what is our real aim with this effort? Is the war on terror a smoke screen for American hegemony, or is the war on terror a war against intolerent or undemocratic regimes.

The point is that we have no clear goal here.
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Bruce K. Nov 13, 2008, 3:34am EST
The other thing is that I heard a statistic yesterday that an equivalent of 6% of Italy's economy is what the Italian mob makes every year ... about 160 billion dollars.

This is as much terrorism as Al Qaeda, and the same is true in the US. Maybe the war on terror should be morphed into a war on organized crime, and international effort that is urgent and critical because of the power criminal corporations of regimes have. Look at the offshore tax havens, I think those are criminal regimes too.

This is going to end up removing international boundaries, and that is where we are going, we need to invent a global transparent open sources government management layer that cannot be corrupted, and then shut out criminal regimes at all levels.

How to do this fairly is exactly what the US was up against when before it ratified the Constitution.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 6:12am EST
"The point is that we have no clear goal here." (Bruce, above)

Exactly. We have a nice bumper sticker, and behind it is some real activity against real threats. But consider this - by putting these small number of terrorists on a pedestal, it just gives them a bigger platform from which to recruit members. Iraq is one big recruiting poster for them...all they have to do is say "see, I told you they were imperialistic and hate our religion." It's no more outlandish a claim from their point of view as some of the things we tossed around during our own presidential campaign.

How do we counter that? We can start by highlighting how many Muslims have been killed by al Qaeda in Iraq. That realization is why the Sunni Awakening happened (and which we took advantage of by spreading around lots of cash for community rebuilding, etc.).
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Robert A. Nov 13, 2008, 7:18am EST
I started to comment on this, and realized my comment was way too long. So I decided to make my own post on it, which is also way too long, and doubtful that anyone will make it all the way through, but hey... I feel better now.

Anyway, aside from what's been mentioned about war can only be declared on nations and not tactics. We can't really get authentic perspective on how to battle terrorism because...gulp... we're terrorists too.

Former CIA director William Casey admitted on his deathbed that the 1985 car bombing in Lebanon was carried out by the CIA with the intention to kill Islamic cleric Sayyed Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah. It failed in that objective but 85 innocent civilians were killed with 200 others injured. Another example is the bombing at the end of Gulf War I of Iraqi water purification facilities and subsequent embargo of equipment to repair those facilities. According to Freedom of Information Act documents this was planned with full knowledge that it would result in massive civilian death from water-bourne disease. This tactic was intended to promote the objective of making conditions so bad that the Iraqi people would overthrow Saddam Hussein from within. Regardless of the benefit of achieving the objective, it was a targeting civilian population, and as a result, that civilian population suffered hundreds of thousands of needless deaths. That’s terrorism.

Looking back to WWII, which is generally thought of as a good war, in respect to how necessary or right it was, the truth is, we targeted civilian populations. Most of us didn’t read about it in our history books in school, but we bombed civilians in Dresden, and we intentionally burned to death, by firebomb, a half-million Japanese civilians. Many more died as result of these firebombings of vast residential expanses of many major Japanese cities than died from the atom bombs at Nagasaki and Hiroshima. While WWII may have been a more justifiable war, our tactics of targeting civilians was, in fact, terrorism.

We can't get a grip on the problem or address it in any kind of authentically righteous way, because we're part of the problem. Ouch.

I know, even this comment is too long.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 7:25am EST
Hi Robert - Just looked at your post. Very good insights. We tend to get caught up in the mythology of why we do things, and forget the real reasons.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 7:26am EST
Oh, and don't worry about being too long on your comments. I get so wordy that often my comment is longer than the original article. Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it seems to be my thing.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 7:36am EST
"OK, the war on terror is not a good name ... what is your alternative?" (Bruce)

I'm not sure we need an alternative. It's an oversimplification that obfuscates the real differences and the real difficulties that we face. And as Robert suggests in his comment above and in his full article just published, it actually makes it worse because we don't deal with the real sources of the terrorism. We need some serious introspection in that regard.

More importantly, I think much of what we should be doing to fight terrorism is best done without a banner leading the battle. Remember that during the US Revolution War the British regulars would line up in their bright red coats with a drummer and a banner-carrier leading the way. And the American colonists picked them off en masse. It's like wearing a target. In the current context, the real terrorists use it as proof of everything they have been saying about us. In truth, the most effective actions that we have taken have been behind the scenes. We've gone after their money. We've tracked them through computer usage and cell phone usage. We've sent special forces in to gather intelligence and use it to our advantage. All of these things are not advertised on bumper stickers, but they work a lot better than flying in to an aircraft carrier and giving a speech in front of a big "Mission Accomplished" banner.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 7:38am EST
Some good ideas Larry. I'll come back later to comment more specifically (work beckons).

[Ditto for you too Gordon]
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 8:59am EST
Thanks for the additional input Candace. Getting the facts right is the first step.

I'll check out the video when I get home from work tonight.
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Kerry Dexter Nov 13, 2008, 9:57am EST
david,
I like points 1 (and your further comments on it) and seven especially. I've made it a point to live green in many areas of my life for some time. That is something every one can take a step toward doing, and by doing so perhaps take a step closer toward peace in the world.
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Robert A. Nov 13, 2008, 10:03am EST
Candace is so right. Focusing on the Isreal/Palestinian conflict is a major way to sort this out. That's a pretty complex matter, but whether the "terrorists" are right in their thinking or not, they have a very big problem with our support, arming, and funding of Israel and Israel's oppression of the Palestinians.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 10:27am EST
Robert - I think there will be differing opinions on who is to blame for the Israel/Palestinian conflict (though there is plenty of blame to go around), but it does seem to a major focal point/excuse. If we solve that problem, we go a long way toward removing one of the reasons used to gain support for terrorist activities. Of course, if it were that easy...
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 10:28am EST
Kerry - This aspect doesn't get much attention, but just look at some of the major conflict areas in the world. Less reliance on "liquid gold" would lessen the power these countries hold over the rest of the world.
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John S. (arizona) Nov 13, 2008, 10:36am EST
Another moniker might be better, but I give the start back to 1972 and the Munich Olympics that brought it to the world stage in it's current form. Just that most didn't see it as that, but a criminal act of a few. "They" have continued to morph and better organize from then to today; as well as increased financial support from nations. It will go on for more generations, as long as intolerance and hate are the politics of Muslim fanatics(?). There is no separation of religion and politics with that ideology, it is one and the same.
They need money, and a safe harbor to grow; end that and they are crippled as organizations. When the nations of the region realize the ultimate threat is to themselves and the peaceful/enlightened side Islam that values human life; and we can stop spending billions on foreign energy to line the wrong pockets there, things should ease up a lot I would think? Perhaps a big part anyway.
I dunno'.... some 2 cents from me.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 10:57am EST
John - Some good points, thanks. It seems some countries have turned a blind eye (or even supported) some terrorist groups because it either supports their own goals or distracts their own people from the ills caused by their own governments.
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Elmo A. Nov 13, 2008, 12:50pm EST
I agree with the first 2 comments from John and Paul.

"War on Poverty" was started in the 60's. How is that working out?
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Bruce K. Nov 13, 2008, 1:31pm EST
David, the name of the war on terror was a slogan to gain support for
the war and frame it in as simple a way as possible.

In a sense it is a war on terror, but that includes:
* American hegemony for oil, to me not necessarily bad.
* Revenge for 911 and other terrorism, systemic to radical Islam.
* Regime change fro radical Islamic countries.
* The spreading of Democracy.
* Corporate imperialism, more of a bad thing in many cases.
* Flipping of Iraq to democracy to try to influence other Muslim states.
* Trying to de-radicalize the Middle East.
* Trying to keep nuclear weapons from Iran.
* Trying to prevent a Middle Eastern nuclear arms race.

John is right about Munich, and further you can trace the roots of
this back to Nazism, which was embedded into the Middle East
when the Palestinian leader Mohammad Amin al-Husayni
allied the Muslims with Hitler. At the end of the war, this faction
of Nazism was ignored. Husayni escaped to Egypt where he created
the Muslim Brotherhood, the ancestor of basically all the radical
Muslim groups that exist today.

Then there is the corrupt Saudi Arabia which owns some fraction
of the US economy, and is essentially our enemy, the world's
enemy, and the enemy of their people, and the United States
government classifies the extent to which the Saudies have
invested in our country. Some say 10% of our economy may
be owned by the Saudis.

So this effort is important, which is signified by the "War On Terror"
slogan, but it also overlooks the sensitive political aspects of declaring
an outright war against the people we buy oil from, and who we are
dependent on, and who are year by year taking our economy over
without a peep from anyone in the US.

If we forget the war on terror because we think it is stupid or
unnecessary, all the problems above will not be addressed.

If we get more specific and truthful about the war, it will really
upset the Islamic states, and other rogue states.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 1:46pm EST
Bruce - I agree with your list of what the "war on terror" entails, and we could probably add more. And at no point am I suggesting that we stop doing the things that are effective in dealing with the things in that list. The actual activities that protect us should continue. My suggestion was simply to drop the trite catchphrase. I do understand that it has (or perhaps had) sales value. It helps "rally the troops" and the people behind the President's policies. And we all wanted nothing less than that after 9/11. But it no longer has any meaning. We say we are fighting the war on terror, yet we let bin Laden get away and moved all our resources to Iraq, then didn't do that very well either. So now the world can a front row seat at the limitations of American military strength [or more accurately, in the limits of American political policy strength]. We say we don't want Iran to get nuclear weapons, but our actions may actually be spurring them on (and the perceived "threat" of US or Israeli attack can be used by Iranian leaders to focus Iranian anger on us rather than on the belligerent leaders themselves).

In other words, let's do what we need to do and worry less about selling a bill of goods to the people.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 1:49pm EST
Elmo - Last I checked we were still at war on poverty and drugs. But I'm sure both will be over soon (?)
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micky d. Nov 13, 2008, 3:26pm EST
The war against Islamic jihad in Iraq has been won. It is now up to Obama to step up and lead. Islamic Jihad will never end as long as the Islamic haters still breathe.To think that barbarians that blow-up their own kids are looking for peace.Barbarians who murder innocent woman and children everyday in Israel-Spain-London-Africa,all over the world are interested in getting along.
To trust these lunatics is like Hitler promising to stop the killings after the Jews are gone. The free-world must unite and let these savages get a message either you surrender or we will follow you too where you are and kill you.
Animals that kill,like terrorist are terrorist and should never be called anything other than what they are. Islamic jihadist Muslim Terrorist. The 3,000 dead Americans on 9/11 deserve nothing less. Putting lipstick on a jihadist Pig,will only guarantee more terrorist deaths.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 3:38pm EST
Micky - I honestly can't figure out what you are trying to say, and in fact it appears you're contradicting yourself. You can start with explaining how "the war against Islamic jihad in Iraq has been won." Or perhaps by explaining what Islamic jihad in Iraq entails (or entailed). Thanks for helping us to understand your point of view.
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Lance L. Nov 13, 2008, 4:33pm EST
I have always thought that the war on IRAQ was wrong. Not just in the ways that most people thing its wrong, but strategically we are fighting it the wrong way. We are still using ground acquisition strategies, against, for what in the most part is, a propaganda war. al Qaeda and the Taliban aren't interested in taking our homes from us, they would rather we all cut our own throats and leave the houses to rot, until our taint has left them. If we continue to meet aggression with aggression, all that is visible to the rest of the world is aggression. Sometimes in life, not caring what the other guy thinks can be beneficial. In this case we need to care what the rest of the world thinks, so that we can be granted their aid in reducing the acceptance of these organizations. The more allies we have the fewer places Bin Laden and those like him have to hide. What I'm suggesting is a force of good will through out the world, supplemented with a defensive army. Once the world believes that we are here to do good, without oppression, then the foundation of hatred that terrorists groups recruit with can be weakened. Their cells only grow because their propaganda generals are given acts to twist into goals that find honor in defeating.
I know that actual diplomacy is trickier than what I have laid out here, but it has been proven that our acts of good will while in Iraq have been effective in bringing their citizens around to our side. I did at one point think this would be a plausible plan to implement, but there have been so many casualties that I doubt the man power needed will be available for a generation, unless we can convince the other world powers to join in on this action.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 4:38pm EST
Lance - Some very good ideas there. It does seem like the idea of "killing all the terrorists" can't be effectual if you create bad will (and more terrorists). And it doesn't get at the root of the problem. I think we have to ask ourselves why we don't see more domestic terrorism, and where we do see heightened violence here in the US, where is it prevalent and why? Answering these questions should not only help us deal with our own problems at home, but gain insight into how to address violence overseas.
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fred kastner Nov 13, 2008, 4:39pm EST
i think every you said is right. and some one compared the war on terror to the war on drugs and i think it is very similar in that we are approaching somehting with force that would be better aproached with heart and mind changes made with in the population. we should stop hunting binladen, and focus on protecting and improving life in afganistan and iraq. and do what all good hunters know eventually the prey comes out to eat or drink when the pressure is off. we need to stay in iraw and afgahnistan to pretect the people we have liberated now, as long as they are threatened by these organiztions we will need to stay and allow them to become strong on thier own. and while we are thier we need to develope america as the country we are not the country they think we are.
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micky d. Nov 13, 2008, 5:04pm EST
David,we defeated the terrorist in Iraq that is not the end of them.These savages are spread all over the world,in many many countries and many city's.They have to be fought wherever they are.Iraqi people are now a free people,the terrorist have been driven out.If you can't tell the difference between Iraq today and Saddam's Iraq well then you will never get it. David, Islamic jihad terrorist are killing all over the world.Just what is it you don't get?? Terrorist in Spain kill them in Spain,terrorist in London kill them in London.David,there are cells of these savages everywhere.
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David K. Nov 13, 2008, 5:11pm EST
Didn't I hear about some more car bombings in Iraq this week, so if the terrorists are defeated, who is still blowing people up? And if they are defeated, why are we still there?

What I don't get is that you say they are defeated, and then say they are still around.
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Andrea (Ms. Conservative) L. Nov 13, 2008, 10:45pm EST
Nice post, David. Great comment, Larry
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David K. Nov 14, 2008, 12:45am EST
Thanks Andrea
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~Lady Neeetah of California~Obama #44 W. Nov 14, 2008, 3:03am EST
Robert is correct. You start to discuss this, and realize that you want to say so much. For me though, emotions are stirred as well, and I become very angry.

Suffice to say that it is a good post, and this: Islam is not the problem, nor are Muslims, nor are terrorists, for that matter.

The problem is hate. Might I also add that the hate to which I refer is not just with the

OTHER SIDE?

Are you hearing me?

NO?

What I mean is that every single American

who has indicted, or called to book the Muslim people or Islam

just because those who committed the 9/11 atrocities where of a fringe group associate with Islam is no better, and perhaps worse than the perpetrators.

I say "worse", because we ought to know better; they obvious don't care.

Hopefully, we're all beyond that now, or

hopefully most of us are beyond it,

and do not care what the nationality

religious,
or non-religious beliefs of any individual(s) are.
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~Lady Neeetah of California~Obama #44 W. Nov 14, 2008, 3:06am EST
That was the beginning of my preface, but were I to say more, like starting in on Point #1, I might wear out my welcome.

Again, good post, David.
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David K. Nov 14, 2008, 3:28am EST
Lady Neeetah - No one wears out there welcome on my posts, as long as they are civil and reasonably factual.

Thanks for your insights. You raise a good point - broad intolerance and unfocused generalizations feed the negative attitude many have about the US.
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Robert A. Nov 14, 2008, 6:33am EST
David -- Going back to your comment about Iran: "We say we don't want Iran to get nuclear weapons, but our actions may actually be spurring them on (and the perceived "threat" of US or Israeli attack can be used by Iranian leaders to focus Iranian anger on us rather than on the belligerent leaders themselves)."

We hurt ourselves in this by failing to put ourselves in Iranian shoes. Imagine you are a 65 year old Iranian. In your lifetime you've seen the US remove your democratically elected president to install a dictator who tyrannized your people for 25 years with his secret police, then a few years later the US supports Saddam Hussein as he invades your country and the US provides logistical and financial support to Saddam while he uses WMD (chemical weapons) on your fellow Iranians, a million of whom have died. And even today as you walk the streets you see the reminder in many Iranians who are disfigured from these chemical weapons, then the US president designates your country as part of the "Axis of Evil" before incinerating one of the other two AofE designees, then the US president and vice-president continue endlessly with the bellicose talk that gets your fellow Iranians to rally behind a president that most of them don't like anyway...

It seems pretty clear that we've shot ourselves in the foot so many times on this, that we're walking around on our ankles.
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David K. Nov 14, 2008, 7:49am EST
Robert - Very well said. It is clear to me that we as Americans have not done a very good job of seeing ourselves as others see us. It is easy to say "they hate our freedoms" because it absolves us of any responsibility we have had historically that may have contributed to their attitudes. It is easy to see from the point of view of the do-er and miss the point of view of the do-ee. And the same from the other perspective - they often see malice in our actions where they may not have been any. But certainly treating someone as a pariah tends to make that person get defensive. We forget that.

And we need to be able to understand all points of view in order to effectively present our own within a framework that can be understood by others.
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Robert A. Nov 14, 2008, 7:55am EST
I agree with that David, and also would like to note that historically, terrorists have almost always been victims first.
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Linda A. Nov 14, 2008, 12:20pm EST
Osama bin Laden is Dead

Obama needs a SPADE to find Bin Laden…

Barak Obama should be honest enough with the American people to declare him dead.

Here are the facts.

The last intelligence intercept of Osama bin Laden was on December 14 of 2001. He has not been heard from since.
President Bush and Defense Secretary Rumsfeld hinted in late December of 2001 that they knew Osama bin Laden was dead.
President Musharraf of Pakistan announced in January of 2002 that Osama bin Laden was probably dead of kidney disease.
President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan was quoted in October of 2002 as saying, "The more we don't hear of him, and the more time passes, there is the likelihood that he probably is either dead or seriously wounded somewhere."

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/moriarty/moriarty111308.html

http://digg.com/political_opinion/Osama_bin_Laden_is_Dead_9

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html


Benazir Bhutto: "Bin Laden was Murdered"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg

Murdered or died peacefully - either way, he is DEAD!
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Linda A. Nov 14, 2008, 12:22pm EST
Osama bin Gone

Osama bin Laden, was an asset to the CIA around the era of the Afghanistan Soviet Union conflict. In fact his code-name while in the US was "Tim Osman," it did not surprise me at all that he was dead since 2001-2002. The evidence was insurmountable, people however need to take the time to investigate and all the pieces of the puzzle will come together.

"It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong" - Voltaire
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Linda A. Nov 14, 2008, 12:26pm EST
Iran

'Wiped off the Map' – The Rumor of the Century

While you are at it Mr President Elect, you may want to mention that Iran never threatened to wipe Israel off the map and 16 US Intelligence agencies all agree [pdf] that Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program.

But you knew that, didn't you? Iran is neither the enemy of the United States nor Israel.

Again, if you can dig up the Wallace interview, un-edited, you will see for yourself.

http://www.antiwar.com/orig/norouzi.php?articleid=11025
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David K. Nov 14, 2008, 12:40pm EST
Linda

The first two URLs are by bloggers, who we can naturally assume have zero official information and therefore are completely unreliable. The Fox News item is from 2001 and reported rumors at the time that were never substantiated. The Benazir Bhutto video was a half sentence out of an interview in which she mentioned some guy who supposedly had murdered bin Laden (and obviously the Bhutto video is old since she was assassinated some time ago and this was before she returned to Pakistan).

You say "The evidence was insurmountable, people however need to take the time to investigate and all the pieces of the puzzle will come together." But you provide no reliable evidence, and in fact the scant "evidence" you provide is demonstrably inaccurate. In other words, you've come to a conclusion based on totally unreliable sources and a misrepresentation of half a sentence. The lack of robustness of analysis makes the credibility of this claim essentially nil.

If you have reliable evidence, then please present it. I'm sure we would all be interested to hear it so we can report it to the rest of the world.
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David K. Nov 14, 2008, 12:57pm EST
Linda - The source you provide for the Ahmadinejad quote is of unknown reliability (to me at least). It is however, quite strongly supported by the author, who provides translations and interpretations, which, if we can assume the veracity of the author's arguments, could be persuasive. The particular quote in question was a source of a lot of discussion, and frankly I don't know what the official conclusion was; perhaps you can include that so we can compare.

In any case, notwithstanding the actual quote from Ahmadinejad in this particular instance, he has been clear that he is no friend of Israel or the US. This isn't particularly surprising, for all of the reasons we all know about, and probably others we don't know about. To extrapolate from a possible mistranslation of one line from one speech to "Iran is neither the enemy of the United States nor Israel" isn't plausible. The Iran/US and Iran/Israel relationships are obviously antagonistic, which certainly precludes any suggestion of friendship at the moment.

Again, this doesn't mean that Iran is about to lob a nuclear warhead on Tel Aviv or Washington DC, nor that they currently have the capability. Nor, however, does it mean that they wouldn't want to do that if they could. Or to do some other (non-nuclear) damage. Personally I think it is more likely that they want nuclear weapons so they can belong to the nuclear club, which by its very membership ensures they get listened to, and thus, have influence. There is no denying that Iran has greater influence on the region now than they did before we entered Iraq, in part because we removed Saddam Hussein, who was arguably helping to keep Iran in check. In addition, by focusing their ire on Israel and the US they feed a nationalism that keeps their populace angry at us rather than on their own leaders. Saddam Hussein did the same thing. It helps control the masses.

So while the "imminent threat" to the US or Israel can be legitimately debated, Iran clearly is not on friendly terms with either country. Iran most certainly is a relationship (for lack of a better word) that the US President-elect must seriously deal with shortly upon taking office. How is does this is yet to be determined, but given that Iran has gained in power and influence during the last several years, it is likely that the approach will be different.
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Gilbert S. Nov 14, 2008, 2:28pm EST
Excellent post. Usually when I can't solve a problem, as in maths, I used to tryto take it from the "other" end.
What a "terrorist" is? Obviously someone who acts in such a way that "I" didn't expect and who is not sharing my pont of view or what I intend to get.
Terrorism is a word which has been "depreciated" to justify a defined action of the power in place.
Terrorists, per example, was the resistants during WW2. They were terrorists towards Nazis and resistants - later on, heroes - for those who were fighting the occupancy and its allies (as Mussolini, Petain, etc. In Yougoslavia Tito, the communist, was a terrorist for the Germans and someone who you can hardly rely on for the Allies.
The main point of it is that we all are terrorists to some empowered one if with words or swords we keep fighting the power.
IMO, the root of terrorism is the "disrespect" shown by the power, the lack of consideration, the communication refusal.
I am under the impression that our politicians and our representatives, democratically elected or not, are usually behaving themselves alike teens: creating a mess to be heard and to draw attention. And the empowered, as teens as well, decides to ignore a group which, in their opinion, don't deserve to be respected.
Such exogenous spiral becomes very difficult to reverse as, per example in ME.
The biologist who works with stem cells is a terrorist towards those who are creationists.
The KKK member who explodes and burn a church is a terrorist.
The racist is another one.
The guy like me, who deals with alternative energies extracted from waste, is a terrorist as our 240 millions tons per year of waste are issued from someone turnover and creates turnover to someone else. Becoming in the between means "stealing" partially or totally their turnover. If they would be trying to eliminate me physically, I would consider them "terrorists" as well unless I dare to try to find some active "interface".
Otherwise stating the word "terrorism" has been prostituted!
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Gilbert S. Nov 14, 2008, 2:38pm EST
David K.: when you state : "So while the "imminent threat" to the US or Israel can be legitimately debated, Iran clearly is not on friendly terms with either country." you enter in a dangereous type of generalization: First of all it is not Iran but some Iranians who are empowered and secondly, the real power in Iran is Khamenei who is accepted by all our countries and mainly by Russia and China.
Never asked yourself how come Russia and China support Iran?
Never asked yourself how come Russia (ex URSS) never supported the Shah?
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David K. Nov 14, 2008, 3:15pm EST
Gilbert - Well, there's the rub. How do we define terrorism and terrorists in the first place? Seems the answer is different depending on your vantage point...and historical perspective.

I definitely agree that the whole concept of terrorism has been wielded as a marketing tool to the point where it is no longer meaningful for creating effective action. Not that we aren't doing some things effectively, but by lumping it all under one moniker I think we've lost site of the intracacies of the different sources.
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David K. Nov 14, 2008, 3:29pm EST
Gilbert - While I may not have explicitly discussed all the intricacies of Iranian government and threat, I can assure you that the way power is wielded in the country is implicit in my understanding of the region. As President-elect Obama (and others) has said, President Ahmadinejad is not necessarily the strongest societal force in Iran, nor is Iranian society by any means homogeneous in cultural beliefs or attitudes toward the west.

The support of Russia and China is actually quite complex. Some is simply a shared need to stand up to the US, politically and economically. Obviously there is a common distrust of the US and other western countries dating back to the World Wars, the Shah, and other forays of ours into the region. And much of it is energy related. Iran and Russia (and now three other "Stan" countries) share the Caspian oil resources. Iran has oil, though its supplies are diminishing faster than some other countries in the region. Russia needs pipelines to get oil both from its suppliers and to its customers. China mostly just needs oil, and has been working very hard to build its supply routes from the sources through all the countries that lie in between (e.g., Kazakhstan).

There are other complexities as well, of course.
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Steve B. Nov 16, 2008, 8:27am EST
Great post, David!

Your last point (go green) - I agree, that is probably the most important "weapon" in the "war on terror". I have long thought of that as a kind of "jujitsu" apporach. Going green takes away both motivation for and financing of "terrorist" attacks. But this is only one of the three reasons why going green is among the top priorities of the new administration, the other two being climate change and renewing the economy.

Can we do it? Certainly, we can do it - probably within ten years.
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David K. Nov 16, 2008, 8:39am EST
I agree, Steve. There are definitely good reasons to "go green." I'd love for you to join my group Innovation Futures and post some articles. I know you have some great ideas that everyone will find worthy of debate.
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David K. Nov 16, 2008, 9:58am EST
Look forward your comments Stephanie.
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Ann M. (Site Scryer) Nov 16, 2008, 10:49am EST
Huzzah, David! Finally someone has written what I think.

I was horrified when the phrase War on Terror was coined. This is no war in the ordinary sense, as you have pointed out. With a lot of help from the Bush administration, we Americans have terrified ourselves well beyond what any foreign agent could do.

We want to feel safe. We won't feel safe from the rest of the world until the rest of the world feels safe from our "superpower."

The "War on Terror" has alienated a huge number of people all over the world. And it has hurt us directly as well-- just ask any foreign musician or prospective graduate student how hard it can be to get a visa.
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David K. Nov 16, 2008, 11:14am EST
Ann - I have heard this as well. It is seen by many as a way for us to wield our power upon the world. Notwithstanding the effectiveness of some of the tactics we have employed, the public relations part of the campaign has seemingly had the opposite of the desired effect.
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Stephanie B. Nov 16, 2008, 7:07pm EST
Lots of good stuff here, in the comments on in the article, mostly voicing thing I was thinking. I particularly appreciated the comments by Larry M on rebuilding what we've broken and comments by Robert A and Lance L. and David's analogy to cancer. In many ways, I see these actions as cutting off an arm for an infected finger or, to carry forward the cancer analogy, addressing a cancer victim by shooting him.

Blunt instruments like cluster bombs and full scale invasions are useless against a terrorist organization. Do you really think they're waiting for it? They use intelligence to do the most damage with the least effort. Instead, we terrorize the populace.

I am not of the opinion that a "war on terror" will be successful if both sides end up terrorists.

I applaud the comments about the change in policy, for this nation and allies, in targeting civilians. Its an ugly direction and many a "bad" government has pursued it. But it's a dangerous direction to pursue. Looking at wars in the past and through the last century shows a horrific trend in civilians killed, by Nazis and by allies. These trends make it impossible for even a well-meaning nation to "free" a nation and not risk the populace to actively work against them. It's hard to appreciate being "free" when your house, or worse, your family, is in pieces.
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David K. Nov 17, 2008, 2:00am EST
Thanks for your views, Stephanie. One of the themes that seems to be running through the comments is that we tend not to see things from the point of view of others. It's instructive to look at how the world views us right now. Some in the US see it as a badge of honor that the world "fears" us, but that is naive. The world "fears" us less than they ever have. They can see the limits of our power put on display. They can see the rise of alternatives such as China and India as world leaders. They can see the regional influence of Russia and Iran. If the world doesn't respect us, is it because the world sees something that isn't there, or is it that we don't see what is there?

In any case, we are in the midst of a transition to a new presidency. This inherently brings new opportunities for reengaging with the world. That said, there is a pretty big hole to start in, so even if things go well (which obviously isn't guaranteed) it will be a while before we see any sustainable changes.
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James C. Nov 17, 2008, 3:06am EST
David,

Excellent analysis! I agree with most of what you are saying. I would add, that in addition to the increase of troops on the ground with the surge, there is some natural winding down involved because of the ethnic cleansing. If the disliked sect is no longer in one's territory, it's not necessary to have terrorist acts to get them out!

Your first one, to eliminate the phrase, "war on terror" I would love to see changed! It won't. But we haven't conducted like a war and Bush has contended that the prisoners were not prisoners of war and could be treated more harshly. Some talk about the US surrendering in Iraq if we leave but that would be impossible as there is no one to surrender to! The war was against Iraq and we won it quickly due to far superior resources. What is going on there now is something altogether different. We havn't seemed to be overly concerned with Osama for some time now.
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James C. Nov 17, 2008, 3:15am EST
David,

You reference Iran wanting nuclear weapons so they can be part of the "club" and I would agree with that. But I would also say that nuclear weapons would stave off any attack by the US. No nuclear country has been attacked as yet.
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