The Hypocricy of Obama Voters

Your correlation is grand canyon style reach. I logically see no connection between voting for Obama and voting Gay Marriage. Maybe those who voted for Obama to win because they did not like Bush and wanted change -- voted against gay marriage. Maybe those who voted for Obama because they thought he was the best man voted FOR gay marriage. Maybe all the McCain voters voted against Gay Marriage and many of the Obama voters did not bother to vote on the issue. Or could it be, or could it be, or could it be. But you quote a Christian Pastor who is against Gay Marriage and happens to be black --- guess what --- so will the white Christian Pastor.

Terry, yes a white Christian pastor could say the same thing... but, it wouldn't be as stunningly hypocritical as it is coming from a Black pastor who had to fight for his own civil rights against prejudice just as the gay community is struggling to do right now.

Also, your attempt at making the point that it's impossible to know which demographic of voters voted for Prop 8 fall short in light of the fact that, if his voters had voted against it then it wouldn't have passed. It's actually a very simple matter.

Those voting for Obama because "he wasn't Bush" were hopefully not the majority and I don't think that anyone seriously believes that. It seems that people wanted "change" and "hope" and a historic statement about all the progress the US has made regarding equality. But, as these results show, it's still only equality for "some", not all.

I don't see the correlation, since the election for president was in all 50 states. The other was in California. To paint everyone with a broad brush, that isn't right. Personally, I don't see why it was put on the ballot in California after it was approved by the state. I not only supported Obama, but worked for the campaign. I didn't have the option to vote on an issue in California. Did you have that option?

People have long held fears of those who are different. Many Christians, of any skin color still believe that homosexuality is wrong and is a sin. They don't have a problem mandating "their" morality in our laws. While I will be the first to scream when people claim this as a Christian nation, the truth is a large majority are.

To fight that fight it means it is more than just political. As long as religions have a say it is going to be a tough fight.

The words spoken by Obama while accepting his party's nomination at the Democratic Convention in August: "I know there are differences on same-sex marriage, but surely we can agree that our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters deserve to visit the person they love in the hospital and to live lives free of discrimination" were, in fact, the basic beliefs of the California Supreme Court when in June 2008 it stated: "The state Constitution's guarantees of personal privacy and autonomy protect "the right of an individual to establish a legally recognized family with the person of one's choice," (Chief Justice Ronald George - majority opinion.) He said the Constitution "properly must be interpreted to guarantee this basic civil right to all Californians, whether gay or heterosexual, and to same-sex couples as well as opposite-sex couples."

California voters decided that chickens and farm animals had more rights than the gay and lesbian population. Why? Because of the wording of Proposition 8. And because the Mormon church and other religious organizations played such a large part in getting 8 to pass - the Salt Lake City-based Mormom church sent letters, held video conferences and in church meetings asked for volunteers to support the campaign. In response, some church members have poured in their savings and undertaken what may be an unprecedented grassroots mobilization for the effort.

Prop. 8 is on pace to be the costliest race in the nation, except for the billion-dollar presidential election. The Yes on 8 campaign estimates that up to 40 percent of its donations come from Mormons. Some others estimate that Mormons account for over 70 percent of donations from individuals. All of California's Catholic bishops have all come out in favor of the measure. So have many evangelical Christians and Orthodox Jews.

Your argument that it is a fight for a recognition of civil rights is only partially correct - it is a recognition of humanity. Blacks in the civil rights era were not fighting for the right to marry - they were fighting for the right to exist, to vote, to be treated as any "man" would be treated, regardless of color. The fight for gay rights is a little different. The right to marry is much less important than the right to vote and the right to vote is much less important than the right not to be hanged merely because of one's skin color.

Gays are not denied those civil rights - merely the right to be legally married...

I am white. I voted for Obama not because he "wasn't Bush" but because I believe in the change that he can bring to this country. My brother is gay and is married to his partner. I support RIGHTS OF MAN, not the right of one over the other. I believe in the right of ALL people to marry, regardless of skin color or sex.

Obama will bring change. And just as Martin Luther King brought change for the African-American population and the civil rigjts movement, gay leaders will also bring change. It, like anythign else, takes time.

Nanina, maybe if it was your right to marry that was outlawed, you might be able to see the correlation. In all 3 states where there was an anti-gay marriage act on the ballot, they ALL passed- just as Obama was being elected president. Maybe this has something to do with the fact that HE has openly stated that he is against gay marriage? He didn't like "separate but equal" for his community, but he supports it for ours. Sorry, but that is just hypocritical.

I could have said the same things you just did about "integration" of the races... that huge numbers of supposedly powerful people wouldn't go for it, they wouldn't allow it, and that the fight is more than just political. It may be. But, civil rights are legal matters.

Yes, I voted for my civil rights in Arizona... and was denied them.

Cait b, I have waited 35 years for my civil rights. You do not seem to be very well-informed about the hatred and prejudice facing the gay community. As Blacks were lynched, we too are (currently) shot, beat to death, dragged behind trucks, raped with bottles, and many other tortures too numerous to recount. We are spit on and told that "God hates fags". The word "gay" is used as a playground insult as if it were nothing at all.. trying replacing the word with "nigger" and see how much tolerance for it disappears.

I can see why you would believe as you do if you are ignorant of the reality of homohatred (I don't believe that it is "homophobia". It's just hatred.) According to emerging genetic research, we will soon be able to prove and explain the workings of a "gay gene", which completely erases the notion of "choice" or "preference". This is EXACTLY the same situation that faced the Black community post-slavery. They could do certain things, but not others. There is no difference here.

Obama believes that he will win favor in the gay community by "mentioning" us. But, we do not want air time. We want our CIVIL RIGHTS.

JS,

There was no such issue on the Colorado Ballot. I am sorry that you were denied your civil rights in Arizona. I do support those civil rights for all, and you are right I don't know what it is like to be denied the right to marry.

I do argue with those who tell me it is a choice, I don't subscribe to a religious doctrine that claims it as a sin. I hope medical science will have the proof that our sexual preference are in our genetic makeup. I still believe that as long as religions preach it as a sin, government doesn't stand a chance to change it.

Ignorant of *homohatred*? Are you freaking KIDDING me? My brother is gay, and I have gay friends that have given their lives for this cause. WHAT HAVE YOU PERSONALLY DONE other than attempt to blame the fact that Prop. 8 passed on Obama? Lest you forget, McCain AND that idiot running mate of his are Christians. To them you ARE the abomination...

Despite the fact that I have a Master's in Political Science AND have worked in and for the gay community of San Francisco for over 20 years, I don't seem to recall that gays were taken from their families, chained on slave ships and brought over here to serve a master...

The others are right. The right to marry is not the same as the right to drink out of the same fountains, to own businesses, to attend whatever schools you want. And the right to wink at someone of another race without being hanged.

I have done more than I care to list here... and I plan to do MUCH more. You're right cait, we weren't enslaved. Does that mean that we shouldn't have our civil rights? Women were not enslaved (technically speaking) and they got the right to vote. Maybe they should have just kept on waiting and waiting because they hadn't had it "as bad" as some other group.

This is a simple issue- equal rights for all US citizens. Period. The fact that we argue about it and pretend it's more complicated than that is a major part of the problem. We hold ourselves back by making excuses for lack of action and lack of equality.

Marilyn, how about the right to not be hanged from a fence post and tortured to death for being gay? How about the right to have a picnic in a national forest without being raped and shot? Again, this is very simple and I would encourage those making excuses to reflect a little more deeply about why.

Correct me if I am wrong -- but gay couples can have a comam law marriage. I know that is not the same as rights. I am not asking to irritate -- but is true - that if a gay couple lives together for five years-they are considered legally married under the law. How does not fit into voting down the right to marry. How would that work

You are wrong.

You asked that we reflect on why we were "making excuses" (your words, NOT mine). I can't help mnoticing that you are a Clinton supporter and would, therefore, like to counter your argument with the following facts:

Hillary Clinton and Gay Marriage:

Some gay and lesbian voters don't feel like Hillary Clinton has done enough to support gay and lesbian rights, while others believe she is the best candidate for gay and lesbian issues. Clinton opposes gay marriage but supports civil unions between members of the same sex.

During her husband's administration, she supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a law preventing the federal recognition of same-sex marriage.

"Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage always has been, between a man and a woman." - Hillary Clinton, opposing same-sex marriages, quoted in The New York Daily News.

Hillary also voted to keep "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" exactly as it's currently worded...

Barack Obama voted against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.

Barack Obama wants to repeal the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military. His campaign literature says, "The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve."

He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples, as well as letting individual states determine if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.

"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."

Sources: Chicago Daily Tribune, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force

There now, I've done my reflecting...