I lived in Chicago for 25 years and am well aware of Obama's background and I am tired of the lies and distortions that I read about him here on gather and elsewhere.
First of all, Obama never worked for Acorn as a community organizer. He worked for Project Vote.
He represented Acorn as an attorney along with the U.S. Department of Justice against the State of Illinois to get the state to adhere to the Motor Voter Law that had already been passed.
His relationship with Bill Ayers was professional only as part of a board that they both served on. Ayers is now a professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago.
If you have questions, go to www.fightthesmears.com . Don't believe everything that you read here on gather or elsewhere online. There is so much garbage circulating that you need to check it out before you start spreading it around. Two other good sources on both candidates are: www.snopes.com and www.factcheck.org .
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Obama's character is an issue. Why do you consider questions about Acorn, William Ayers or Wright smears? A white candidate with those kinds of associations would be toast.
Don't you remember Reverend Wright saying, "God, Damn America. Conservatives have great memories.
Stop attacking and start defending your candidate.
From one of Stanley Kurtz's articles this week: That same year (1995), as a director at Chicago’s Woods Fund, Obama was successfully pushing for a major expansion of assistance to ACORN, and sending still more money ACORN’s way from his post as board chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. There are records showing how many board meetings that Obama and Ayers attended together. But, you know, Obama said first that he had no association with him at alll and has had to back-pedal that one. The facts show that Obama's political career was also started at the home of Ayers and his wife at a party/fundraiser. His wife was also part of the group he was in when they did the bombings.
People keep trying to show Ayers as an upstanding citizen now. He's not. He still holds the same contempt for the US as he did when he was in the terrorist group. Ayers is sorry they didn't do more. And Obama has associated with him.
Smears are when something is not true. These things are all true.
I hope you'll all tune in to Hannity's America tonight on Fox News at 9 p.m Eastern/8 p.m. Central. The focus is Obama - things that no other media has the guts to cover.
Even if Obama is your candidate, you should tune in to see what you won't believe next...even when presented with facts.
And if you're undecided, this report might help you decide.
Thanks for the warning, Marilyn. I might have accidentally seen it on my way to a real news program and choked on my dinner.
Mary ann vote for the one that makes you feel good, not the one that makes you angry and confused.
How? Because he uses sensationalism and he is a lap-dog for the republicans..They give the order and he performs, or jumps...you call that unbiased reporting?
If you like lies and distortion go to fox news....
I think we are blessed to have such a worthy candidate to be our future president.
He has brought great unity and inspiration to our country and has touched the hearts of many people of all ages, from all nations and walks of life.
I am really proud of what he has done at this critical time in our history.
There is a sense of belonging and an awareness of what it means to be an american and equally responsible for our nation 's future.
My motivation and zeal to do better things has grown lately because Obama has shown leadership and courage in facing this crisis.
He has set a great example for all of us, that united we stand and divided we fall, we fall for corrupted government, we fall for lack of involvement and civic responsibility and we fail to uphold those american values we hold dear.
It is time for change..the kind that matter.
I am against the smears on both sides & am disgusted by all four of the candidates. I am especially repulsed by the ardent tripe and lies perpetuated by the followers of both sides in an effort to sway America to their chosen candidate. And unfortunately it has defined this entire race because none of them has the credibility to run on their own merits.
NONE. As in NOT ONE.
So it comes down to trying to research, wading through the stench of the two campaigns and the baseless mudslinging and lies of both sides and their followers. And all I can do is make my decision based on the lesser of the evils. Because there is no good nor qualified candidate among them. That is why the hate, fearmongering and smears are reaching a boiling point during these final weeks to the election - because there is nothing else to discuss.
"If you like lies and distortion..." turn on ANY news broadcast. If it's not stilted toward one side (see Lea's comment above) it's Katie Couric & Tom Brokaw fawning like love-sick teenagers over Obama. Charisma does not mean he's good. Many of our world's worst tyrants were charismatics who rose to power in troubled times.
I poured over both candidates books and background and also voting record and I find, because I lean toward intellect and achievements that Senator Obama has a lot to show for his years in the senate in Illinois and as a senator in congress.
One thing that comes to mind is when he was a state senator, together with another senator, not sure who, pushed for the VA to help over 300 thousand vietnam veterans to have their case reviewed after 20 years and get benefits due to them.
One of the son of a vietnam veteran tells the story about his father who had lost his hearing after the war and was never helped for it until Obama's intervened.
So as you can see from that and his voting for soldiers related bills he is greatly supported by veterans , were McCain being a veteran did nothing and has the dysmal grade of D.
I may be biased because my husband was in the military for 30 years but this is just one of the many reason, factual, they I have for supporting Obama.
You may want to ignore his many supporters, I guess we may be all idiots, rather then smart, educated business people who work hard only to see incompetent and a corrupted government fail us when it is time to retire with some degree of security.
I think you have not done your home work and the two evils are in the white house.
Bush and Cheney
William C. Ibershof also corrects a charge in the Times: "I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of 'prosecutorial misconduct.'
It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director."
The letter:
"As the lead federal prosecutor of the Weathermen in the 1970s (I was then chief of the criminal division in the Eastern District of Michigan and took over the Weathermen prosecution in 1972), I am amazed and outraged that Senator Barack Obama is being linked to William Ayers’s terrorist activities 40 years ago when Mr. Obama was, as he has noted, just a child.
Although I dearly wanted to obtain convictions against all the Weathermen, including Bill Ayers, I am very pleased to learn that he has become a responsible citizen.
Because Senator Obama recently served on a board of a charitable organization with Mr. Ayers cannot possibly link the senator to acts perpetrated by Mr. Ayers so many years ago.
I do take issue with the statement in your news article that the Weathermen indictment was dismissed because of “prosecutorial misconduct.” It was dismissed because of illegal activities, including wiretaps, break-ins and mail interceptions, initiated by John N. Mitchell, attorney general at that time, and W. Mark Felt, an F.B.I. assistant director.
William C. Ibershof
Mill Valley, Calif., Oct. 8, 2008"
Please post documentation from sources other than the neocon propaganda machine known as Fox news, or stop posting lies, Marilyn. And sorry Hannety saying it, doesn't make it so.
I can't waste time watching Fox News. I'm busy reading Senate voting records for McCain and Obama from the Congressional Record (McCain has voted against almost all benefits for Veterans for MANY years), reports from judicial proceedings on the Keating Five and McCain's involvement, including the news video where McCain said he was very wrong to get involved by attending the meeting of lobbiests and the Senate Banking Committee members where pressure was applied to save Keating from punishment for his
actions. REAL bipartisan reports from the likes of the League of Women Voters concerning local and state propositions and otherwise becoming an informed voter so I can do my duty.
I wish every voter would and could go to the sources for information on what each candidate has created as a record for himself long before he decided to run for President. This is who they are when nobody is watching them.
I'm proud to support Obama and would not support the wishy-washy, angry, self-serving McCain no matter who he might be running against. He has sold his soul to the very political machine that defeated him in the 2000 Republican primary, so determined is he to be President at all costs.
But I'm glad to see that even though he did that, he has enough honor left to speak up against his own out of control supporters who are advocating asassination and anarchy. He went up two notches in my book when he removed the microphone from the elderly, uninformed woman who was responsible for sending out 500 printed Internet letters touting the lie that Sen. Obama is a Muslim. As McCain took the microphone away from this woman, he said "No! No, that is incorrect." And then... his rabid, radical supporters actually booed Sen. McCain at his own rally!!! Even he can't control what he has allowed the Rovites and Sarah Palin to unleash in this country.
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive." Old Addage from my Grandmother
Bill B., Oct 13, 2008, 7:15am EDT "
Leave. Please. Nobody is forcing you to stay, and, seeing as how the vast majority of the nation is diametrically opposed to virtually every point of view you hold, it seems as though you're living in the wrong country anyway. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out. We'll miss ya, I'm quite sure, but we'll somehow try to muster on without you.
As I'm sure you know since you were an ardent Hillary supporter, their policy positions are very, very similar. He supports all that she has worked so hard for her entire life. I wish you could set aside whatever bee is in your bonnet and vote for the candidate who will lift our country out of this economic mess we're in, restore our moral leadership in the world, and advocate for fair access to education, health care, and jobs.
Sen. Obama is the only candidate left standing who supports equal pay for equal work for women and family friendly policies in the workplace.
These other supposed issues are meant as a distraction. You know full well that Sen. Obama himself said right off the bat that Palin's family was off limits. If his supporters took another road, he told them to cut it out. The smears about Palin are not coming from him.
Independent investigative reports about Palin's abuse of power, the way she conducted business in Alaska, and her husband's strong-arm role in government, are another matter, and best left to the investigators and real journalists (of whom there aren't many these days, I'm afraid).
Today, Barack Obama is the much stronger candidate. He has the judgment, temperament, and right kind of experience to lead. I say this as a moderate and former Republican.
My point is that
a) I am against mudslinging and smear campaigns on both sides yet the author of this post has actively participated in spreading unsubstantiated stories about Gov. Palin in an attempt to position Sen. Obama as the better candidate. I find that hypocritical and said so.
b) I have done my homework. I admit to leaning toward the conservative side. Sen. Obama 's voting record shows him for exactly who he is - an uber-liberal. Sen. Biden has had an undistinguished career riding name recognition in the small state he represents. Sen. McCain's record is all over the map - from ultra-conservative to party maverick to quasi-liberal to whatever issues the polls tell him is important today. Gov. Palin's record is not complete enough to offer any comment other than she has little experience and makes the same kinds of mistakes as the other three in this mess.
So I stand by my comment - I see no good or qualified candidates in this election. And for an America that desperately needs to be led into 21st century prominences things are not looking good no matter who gets elected.
Having said that, the point of this entire post was anger against smears on Sen. Obama buy a person who has smeared Gov. Palin publicly on Gather. That was and remains an issue to me.
Anyone that incite crowds by repeating things she could easily verify not to be true, it is not fit to be vice president or an american in my book.
I in her place would be talking about the economy not association and mentioning the word terrorist at a rally and sending movies like Obssesion, absolute misconduct at the party level.
We need to have standards of respect in politics, and Obama has proven he does.
The majority agrees and McCain character and statesman experience does not impress me in the least...
Apart from the party failure to govern, to me a person who has spend less time in Wasgington is best, no ties with the crooks and clean the government of excess.
He is responsible as others to vote against new energy sources development, big mistake.
There is a great deal of unseemly truth about the governor that NEEDS to be brought to light. Do we REALLY want ANOTHER person in the white house that abuses their position of power? Do we REALLY want someone that we KNOW is entirely unqualified to serve as VP, knowing that the POTUS at that point would be someone who virtually has one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel? Do we REALLY want a VP who belongs to a dangerous religous cult, apparently doesn't read anything, and has no opinion about the decisions of the SCOTUS? Do we REALLY want another person in the white house that we KNOW has a difficult time telling the truth? I think not.
"Sen. Obama 's voting record shows him for exactly who he is - an uber-liberal."
Really? What specific legislation has he written, co-written, or voted for that would be considered "uber-liberal?" And, does it bother you at all to know that the positions that he holds are also held by the vast majority of Americans today? It appears that the entire country has turned "uber-liberal," and left you standing out in the cold. It appears that it is not Senator Obama who is the extremist at all.
"Sen. Biden has had an undistinguished career riding name recognition in the small state he represents"
Yeah, he can hardly compare with the astonishing significance of the Palin career, true.
"Sen. McCain's record is all over the map"
He's voted with bush 89.2% of the time. That's all that needs to be said.
"Gov. Palin's record is not complete enough to offer any comment"
That fact SHOULD be telling you something.
"So I stand by my comment - I see no good or qualified candidates in this election."
Alrighty, then. Don't vote.
"Having said that, the point of this entire post was anger against smears on Sen. Obama buy a person who has smeared Gov. Palin publicly on Gather. That was and remains an issue to me. "
The HUGE difference, of course, is that the smear attacks on Obama are based entirely on lies, while the attacks on Palin are based entirely on facts.
For the record, the site that first reported this smear did so with absolutely no journalistic integrity. A quote regarding the original story taken directly from their site: "It is hearsay with no real proof. " That says all I need to hear. Unfortunately the author of this post, who apparently has not defended herself because she cannot defend this action in good conscience, has relied on others to defend her indefensible position and to cloud the issue. This post is not about the qualification of any candidate, although I temporarily allowed myself to get dragged down into that.
Let me be crystal clear: my statements are ONLY about the author's complete hypocrisy in posting anything about smears to anyone after she actively participated in a smearing the opposition using baseless and unproven hearsay. Period. It is like the person in prison for bleeding money off their employer's books complaining about the person in the next cell who robbed a gas station. Same crime, no matter who you slice it.
"The HUGE difference, of course, is that the smear attacks on Obama are based entirely on lies, while the attacks on Palin are based entirely on facts."
Here is the reporter's entire statement on the supposed conversation:
"UPDATE: I feel compelled to post a "disclaimer": The quotes and anecdotes in this article are all hearsay. There's no proof, a la George Allen and "macacca." I am only posting it because I read it and thought it warranted reading. I don't for a second suggest we move on this or anything. Just to be read. It is hearsay with no real proof. But it is interesting hearsay, and if Sarah Palin indeed has a habit of these sorts of things, it shouldn't be too difficult to catch it at some point. But I take this with a grain of salt. Just putting it out there since I saw it. Thanks."
On what planet does hearsay = truth? Krypton? Even the reporter says he takes it "with a grain of salt."
So this reporter posts gossip based on no factual evidence - like so many other sheep and lemmings in cyberspace he posted it because her read it. Since he read ti, it mus be true, right? Please. The Internet is full of more garbage, innuendo & lies than "The National Enquirer" or "The Weekly World News" ever were. This is no different.
According to "Time" magazine, McCain campaign staffers in Virginia are teaching volunteers to see Barack Obama as having terrorist 'friends,' and then providing these volunteers with arguments for persuading voters that Sen. Obama, like Osama Bin Laden, shares responsibility for bombings of the Pentagon.
The report from inside the McCain campaign brings to light an alarming fact: while McCain tells his supporters publicly to refrain from violent rhetoric, he continues to teach his volunteers rhetoric designed to elicit violent responses.
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?memberId=85682&articleId=281474977476282&nav=MyGather
That is indeed alarming and admittedly wrong method. However, in that article nowhere in it did it say that John McCain or anyone directly or even close to him has issued the edict to have volunteers spread lies, myths, half-truths or even hearsay. In fact, if one reads the article one will find that the reporter was invited to see the operation ("The McCain campaign invited me to visit Frederick and the Gainesville operation on Saturday morning...") Why would they invite a reporter to that location if they were aware of that abhorrent practice? The only result would be to make them look bad three weeks before the election. Does that make sense?
See for yourself - read and look at the truth, not some regurgitated version of it:
http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1849422,00.html
So in the absence of anything directly tying McCain or Palin or even any of their direct reports to this, what we have is yet another example of mudslinging people at teh campaign office who are determined to sway the outcome of the election by execrable and unethical means. Somewhat like this post and the previous smear I referred to.
And one should note that even if this source had anything tying it to McCain or his closest advisers and not to some local zealots who chose to employ campaign tactics not endorsed by the candidate himself, citing a single source (even if it DID say what you imply it does - which it obviously doesn't) does not relieve the previous use of unfounded and baseless smears in other examples. Stench is stench and it sticks to one no matter how much perfume one puts on until one comes clean.
But does the occurrence of some isolated incidents make spreading half-truths & unverifiable stories OK? Are the documented and verifiable not enough that for you? Does the fact that there are documented and verifiable errors made by Sen. McCain and Gov. Palin mean that you have the license to repeat every piece of drivel and gossip you read or hear as if they were Brad Pitt and Britney Spears just because you think it advances your cause? (Side note - I disagree with slandering celebrities as well in the name of "news" and under the protection of a First Amendment interpretation that has been hijacked to mean something it was never meant to encompass. I was just using them as an obvious example of your actions). Is this not the very thing this post was written to combat against Sen. Obama? How is you smearing the opposition without proof any different from those who smear Obama without proof or even a basis for fact? Because I don't see the difference. Take a good look in the mirror and answer truthfully - what is your motivation for spreading lies, innuendos and unverified stories as you have? Is it not the same motivation as those who do it against Obama? So how can you in good conscience complain about one but support the other? Have you no morals?
You want to comment about substantiated gaffes and misstatements or incorrect action/lack of action that is adequately documented and can be proven? Go ahead. It is your right and possibly even your duty as an American citizen. But when you cross the line to slander and libel, when you purposefully spread misinformation on one side and publish a Web site that purports to defeat information for the other, you act hypocritically. All I am saying is publish facts or nothing at all. The incident I referred to, which I will not repeat for obvious reasons is the one at a restaurant in Alaska involving Gov. Palin. As the reporter of that event clearly stated, "it is hearsay." If it's not admissible in court how can it be admissible in the press. Do you not realize that by posting on Gather you became an member of the press? And by extension this means you by posting on Gather agree to uphold the integrity of the Fourth Estate? Does the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" mean anything to you? Then like most of the gullible American public, you read the article in Time magazine that had not ties directly to either Sen. McCain or Gov. Palin -what passes for "unbiased" news today - and without stopping to think about how that reported WAS indeed biased - biased in favor of your preferred candidate. Every bit as biased as Sean Hannity or other mentioned. But since it was biased for Obama that makes it OK?
So here you are - complaining about someone else doing THE VERY SAME THING YOU ARE DOING. THAT IS MY POINT. You gave up your right to criticize smear campaigns against Obama/Biden when you chose to participate in smearing McCain/Palin.
If you want to publish essays and opinions about your family, your religion or your favorite TV shows/sports franchises, etc, that's fine. If you want to publish your opinions about chocolate cake or domestic pets that's fine too. But when you complain of the very act you yourself are perpetuating, that is not fine and it is my right and my duty as an American citizen to try to set the record straight.
But thank you for sharing your thoughts, Joe.
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977472642
And how is that different from what you are complaining about? How are you different from those who smear Obama? Denial is powerful but it is not truth.
Even if I agreed that Obama is smeared more and worse than McCain or Palin (and I don't - but for argument's sake, even if I did), how does that change this? Saying that is like saying you're better than a bank robber because you only robbed a liquor store. That's teh kind of garbage that a relativist viewpoint feeds the soul and the psyche. Wrong is wrong. Period. You are no better than those you condemn, Pharisee.
Well, I have said all I can on this. It is obvious that you are so hypnotized by Obama's charisma that you have no sense of right and wrong or perspective on reality. I close with the words of my master: those with ears, let them hear.
Carla, it is NOT nice to attack people's Christian faith. I am VERY offended by this......
and do NOT appreciate your attacking God and Christians!!!
I pray three times a day to God about this election......for HIM to bring about the right and best candidate :)
God has more power than any human being.
"For I may be in this world, but I am NOT of it!!!"
For SURE!
Thought - how is it that when I quoted the Bible to use as a tool of correction & teaching (2 Tim 3:16-17) I was wrong but you are justified in doing so? I would venture to say that this says a lot in itself about this entire exchange.
I saw an inconsistency that I tried to bring to your attention and to the attention of other readers. Why? Presumably for the same reason you chose to post this - to inform readers of the smears begin directed at the candidates. However, when you were informed that you were smearing the opposition you responded by citing another unrelated issue as if that justified the original smear. I pointed out that the inconsistency was not directly on this post, but on another Gather member's post referenced above in which you made a statement that cannot be proven to be true about one of the Republican candidates. On that post I also noted that it had no link to any reference on it. Again, not on this post but on the one I referenced above. I honestly believe that making this type of smear on one of the Republican candidates is no different from untrue and unprovable comments made about Obama. Apparently you believe otherwise - that smearing Obama is wrong, but smearing the opposition is justified. I don't pretend to understand why. In the end you believe you are justified regardless of facts offered and whatever I say you will not believe it, so there is nothing further to say. I pray that the scales will fall from your eyes as I remove the plank from my own.
Don't bother to pray for me, Joe. I can do my own praying, thank you. Besides, I believe that your remark is merely another condescending and self-righteous comment. And as far as your plank, better get a forklift as I think it is quite a large one.
Even after an attempt to admit fault & offer a peace offering in some measure of humility, after offering the greatest gift one human can offer another (prayer to the Almighty Father) I am told that I am the only one with faults and that my prayers are unwanted. Perhaps that's a large part of the issue here...
I was taught many years ago that someone else's opinion of me is none of my business but that my opinion of them is. That is, even when I disagree with someone I have the choice of loving beyond faults or allowing my human side to guide my thinking instead. My choice remains to pray for your well-being and for God to reveal the truth to all of us, including you. Your choice and opinions are between you & God. Take care.
My pastor is a wonderful CONSERVATIVE pastor...I thought ALL pastors were conservative and NOT liberal.
I frankly get sick and tired of the liberals' "holier than thou" attitude. They are soo vicious, hateful, etc......I have done a good housecleaning and have eliminated ALL liberals from my "nice" circle of friends.......I want nice, positive friends, not friends who are hateful all the time, especially about this horrid election.
Joe, you are the greatest....thank God for you and Clark Kent.
I can hardly believe that Carla would even believe in God....seems like 90% of the liberals are NOT Christians.....LOL!
As a non-believer, I can only read about the loving, forgiving, inclusive Christ in the Bible and wonder why so many choose to put such a derisive tone on those who haven't found their way into their "personal relationship" with their Savior. Is this Christianity? Does this spiritual one-upmanship work in creating a society that in any way reflects the life of Christ?
I think the healing for us all begins when we understand that there's a lot of uncertainty out there and that we're all trying to sort it out. When we all are willing to look in the mirror and examine our own consistency of action with values we can begin to approach each other from a place that sets aside our personal opinions of what's "right" or "wrong" and instead focuses national attention on what works and what doesn't in the context of the Preamble to the Constitution -- the heart of our system of government.