This is the place to talk about your thoughts and opinions on the vice presidential debate, sure to be one of the most interesting face offs in recent history when Joe Biden and Sarah Palin go head-to-head. We invite you to join us in the Politics Essential to read what other members have to say, contribute a post of your own and join in the conversation here in our open-threaded posts.
What is your opinion going into the debate? And what are your post-debate thoughts on how each VP candidate fared with their answers and stances? Be a part of the dialogue of one of the most exciting presidential races that we've seen in a while.
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Comments: 177
The next time you're in a bar or at a PTA meeting look around and ask yourself, "Is there anyone in this room I think is qualified to be president?"
She also talks about personal responsibility too, so may that makes up for the prior statement.
Biden trying to put the subprime issue on McCain talking about deregulation. Who's buying that?
The next time you see a state Governor, look around and ask yourself, "Is there anyone in this office I think is qualified to be President? Of course, we all know the answer when asked that way, don't we? LOL next.
No... she said "I may not answer the question exactly the way Joe or the moderator wants, I am going to tell you what John McCain and I did as leaders and I'm going to speak directly to the American people.
Nice spin though, Kevin. I'm sure it's hard for you to follow :)
Given no one else is participating here, I leave your to fantasies about Palin. Be sure to use plenty of lube.
Oh please... you think Biden didn't prepare for this with a few talking points of his own? Come on, lets get real.
That doesn't even make sense. It's "dimwit." There's no O in "dimwit."
Biden totally schooled Palin tonight.
I think she did very well, and I also think he did. That's, however, relative to what I expected from both of them. He was a gentleman and she was as well versed as she could have been relative to her years' experience versus his.
I don't think that either of them gave enough substantive information that could define one party as a definitive choice over the other, though.
Sarah Palin is speaking from 16 years experience, Obama is speaking from 3 years. So what? Let's compare McCain's experience to Obama's if that's the measure we use.
Thanks for clearing that up for everyone (dripping sarcasm). Have you ever heard the term "creative license?"
Let me spell it out for you. Obama puts the "O" in dimwit... which leaves you with Dim-O-wit, which is a play on the word democrat. Get it?
HERE
Sen. Joe Biden 74% 36986
Gov. Sarah Palin 23% 11417
Neither 3% 1294
Total Votes: 49697
Wow... was that article supposed to be funny because I laughed out loud. You used MSNBC's post debate polling data as your sole source! You've really got a good handle on seeking out the truth. NOT.
You're wrong... she was very direct on many questions and when it was appropriate, she took the debate in the direction she wanted to in a masterful way.
Yes, she has -
Gov. Sarah Palin has billed taxpayers for 312 nights spent in her own home during her first 19 months in office, charging a "per diem" allowance intended to cover meals and incidental expenses while traveling on state business.
The governor also has charged the state for travel expenses to take her children on official out-of-town missions. In addition, her husband, Todd, has billed the state for expenses and a daily allowance for trips he makes on official business for his wife.
Governor Palin has admitted this and the State of Alaska allows this, so no problem. Except she is not a member of the middle class.
He doesn't answer directly... just smiles and answers the way he sees fit. A technique the liberals don't like when Sarah does it ;)
Sen. Joe Biden 74% 36986
Gov. Sarah Palin 23% 11417
Neither 3% 1294
Total Votes: 49697
Guess the rest of the world doesnt agree with you Don.
"""""
And what is the source of your online spammed-to-death worthless poll? Ha ha.... come on, you can do better than that.
You got that right, Linda, not to say that you don't have a lot of other things right too, but that one particularly stood out!
I thought Palin was self assured and put things in her own words. At times she went out on her own and made points that weren’t in the prep. I though she did stay fairly close to the points the campaign wanted.
Biden seemed a bit stifled, he seemed to stay on script. He seemed to use the same words to make the same points several times during the show. It just seemed he wasn’t being himself an using his words.
I all honesty this was a much better show, and of all four candidates, Palin is the best and the one I would like to her again. I wish she would use that style being herself. She has a home town cut to the nut of the issue, rather than all that Washington speak.
The best remark of both debates was Palin giving Biden just respect for all his years of service in th Senate and then saying people are looking for a change.
The one point that was ripe for a Reagan one liner was when Palin said after Biden was comparing McCain to Bush how he was looking in the past and change was about the future. T think Reagan would have said something like they were always looking in the review mirror and that is only for backing up. Give her a few more weeks of being herself on the national political stage and we may be seeing the development of a really good political speaker.
I was properly impressed by Palin.
Ifillm never had a semblance of control, and that was good. It was the two candidates going toe to toe, I enjoyed it, I didn't expect to.
Palin did MUCH better than I expected, but she left room for Biden to edge out in front of her. This round goes to Biden.
Also glad to hear they both support Israel and Israel was discussed.
I guess she'll model her Vice Presidency after Cheny's and use a "bit more authority" because she believes there's a "lot of flexibility" in the Constitution -- or was this rambling because she was off script.
Palin's performance exceeded expectations. But it was a performance, there's no substance beneath it.
She didn't run... so what's the point?
Biden did what he had to do, and his experience showed why he is a better VP choice.
Palin is not ready to lead this nation if something were to happen to McCain.
I wrote a short article asking you the people to comment.
So far it is popular.
Here it is:
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977466240&nav
For me, her big moment was when she said something about not being the typical "Washington," type. That carried a punch since many of us are liking to separate from that. She really did come across well ... someone you can relate with.
Too bad she didn't know McCains voting record better so she coud have refuted Biden's comment about McCain not being a "Maverick," and quoted votes on that. I think the bottom line is that Biden was just plain good tonite, really good. He didn't appear condescending; in fact, this debate seemed a little more friendly than the one between McCain and Obama, as might be expected.
Also, it was a surprise to see Biden tear up and get emotional. hmmmnnn
I doubt anyone changed their vote based on tonite's debate. Both Palin and Biden helped themselves and their party tonite.
On a related note, the last maverick who embraced following through on an unpopular war was fellow Republican Abe Lincoln. Sticking true to their OLD BOY tradition is the democrat party’s embrace of SLAVERY. The difference between now and then is the focus group information that most Americans simplistically associate slavery with the Negro race. History, on the other hand, shows that deprivation of freedom does not correlate the race of the oppressor with race of the inflicted. Instead history has far more examples of black slave brokers trafficking black slaves and before the revolutions of the west, particularly England and the US, white slave owners of white slaves. I include these points because they are relevant yet not my central point. My central point is that all Americans have benefited from the vision of great leaders in the face of unpopular conviction. Similarly, the long term stability of freedom for children of Christians, Muslims, Arabs, Black Americans, White Americans, Asians, etc depends upon a stable Iraq. I personally am happy that Abe did not cave to the will of the people.
Also did anyone else think using a baby at 11:00 pm as a prop distasteful?
Meanwhile, Joe Biden showed a command of the issue and although I would not want him to be President, he could fill those shoes.
Now he is being foisted on the electorate as the best choice to be a heart beat away.
If the Democrats wanted him as President so bad, why didn't they support him more in the primaries. Could it be they did not like him so much?
Now, he is the best possible choice for Veep?
We have all seen Biden in action before and this was not the Biden we all know.
Talk about coached and scripted!! Why couldn't Joe be himself?
Secondly, I thought the debate was anti-climatic, and only did Palin good as she held her own. Biden is a gentleman and was not forced to be nice. The whole question of her being a woman should not enter this arena. She is a person who is running for vice-president, and should be judged and voted for or against based on that alone. I am voting for her, but feel a whole lot better about Biden.
The End!
Carol ~
Through all of these debates and interviews it is so rare that an actual stance or plan is revealed by either party. But the democrats seem to have far more specific points to back up their consistent motto of change. The republicans have adopted the motto of change as well because it is popular. This is all good news to me, because it may mean that politics will change regardless of the party in power. But the republicans have no specific plan. Most often they talk about how they are mavericks, how they understand the people, how they will make things change and reform government. How then??? Every time they are pressed to prove how they just avoid the question or move to the next question rather than rebutting.
Obama and Biden have been able to put the Republicans on the defensive far more often. The republicans can't rebut their track record of non-regulation, tax-cuts to the wealthy and corporations, etc. It is their fundamental philosophy.
I'm not really sure which philosophy actually is better: democrat vs. republican... but I feel that Obama and Biden actually have some compelling plans for their presidency.
Plus when it comes to energy I totally disagree with McCain and Palin. It is shortsighted to suck the last few drops of oil from our own land. A far more innovative and successful approach is to encourage renewable energy through government incentive.
Palin's claim that climate change is most likely a natural cycle... well fine, she can believe that. But then why does she NEXT talk about regulating emissions and moving towards clean energy. If it is just a natural cycle, then so be it... the planet will shift beyond our control and our race will become extinct. Only to be found fossilized in some old ice and lava millions of years later. If you believe that climate change is not a product of humankind's actions, then why focus energy on it? If I were Palin my plan would be to invent some kind of space dome for life in space, or to just make the most of our last few generations on the planet...
I just amuses me how the horn of freedom kinda sort of encompasses us all in this 'ere meltin' pot!!! But, well, I mean, there are a few exceptions... Darn tootin'
1. Those of mind
2. Those of heart
One thing I can say about America is, we don't lack heart...
The internet is probably my only chance to hear republican opinions or to understand what supporters of Palin and McCain see in their choice.
I wish more voters would talk about the issues, instead of the personalities of the politicians. One thing that alarms me is how many people don't understand the demanding role of the president. Just sit for a moment and imagine their job, imagine what they have to handle each day, imagine all the people they need to manage. I don't want someone just like me to be president. I wouldn't be ready. Maybe someday I could work towards that goal if I felt dedicated enough... and I do love that about America.
But Palin just isn't ready. Perhaps she would be someday. I feel like the Republican party was irresponsible in asking her to run for VP. Of course she would say yes, but this could be devastating to her political career. There are many qualities to like about her. But in watching her interviews, she speaks like a college student who crammed for the exam. She knows she can't be herself, she has a lexicon of phrases, and she knows some things are not safe to say. I admit, that is a hard task to be faced with, and I would blunder too. But it proves she is not ready. The fact that she is a washington outsider is not a pro in my mind. Washington is filled with hundreds, thousands of insiders. Once in the system, you can't remain an outsider. To truly change a system you have to first learn how it works, have a vision and inspire change from within. In washington, a system of that magnitude of power... inspiring that kind of reform could take years, or even a lifetime.
I think it is great that people like Palin, but it should stop there. I think it is dangerous to find her fit for the role of vice president, and perhaps even president.
Of course, this doesn't change my mind about Palin because she is running with McCain, and I just don't see him as anything much more than ravenous for the prize.
I've definitely been tuning in this year and am trying to understand these candidates. As likeable as McCain and Palin might be, I simply trust them less than Obama and Biden. I see McCain and Palin as capable of abusing their power in office. Perhaps some other Republican could have run that had more respect for the balance of powers. But I see Mavericks for what they are... individuals interested in stretching their power to buck the system and do things their way. Because a Maverick is always right. I don't think that has a place in our government, it's a complex world and nobody is always right. Go be mavericks in the business world, the ice hockey rinks, or in combat.
We need a president and vice president who respects the power they are granted, and are not too stubborn to listen to and heed good advice from the people they surround themselves with.
Look here at the definition of maverick:
a lone dissenter, as an intellectual, an artist, or a politician, who takes an independent stand apart from his or her associates.
Is that what we want for the next 4 years? Is that what this country needs to recover and thrive?
its not about which party is less corrupt. Corruption is a trait of man, and not party, race or ideals. I didn't support "W" but you who did should be offended by his presidency. And that doesn't mean run out and support Obama/Biden, but what it does mean, as a supporter of Republican ideals, you and those who support them, should hold their feet to the fire.
What the debate showed me, and to that, the comments left on here in support of Palin, it shows that some of you guys have learned nothing from the last 8 years. Republican supporters are falling for Palin the same way they fell for Bush....She's like us, you can have a beer with this guy.
You're right, though. Those who do support the Republican ticket should be holding their 'feet to the fire.'
The answer is Obama and his cult following. His ideal is change for change because change can change the change that change needs to change.
That's all he says is change. Yet, he never clearly states what he is going to change and how he will do it. He just says he isn't going to do what Bush does because everything Bush does is wrong. Last time I checked, it was congress who drafted legislation that was either passed or vetoed by the President. The Democratic congress hasn't done ANYTHING to help this country in the last two years. This mess we are in blossomed under their watch. They can't blame anyone but themselves.
We the people shouldn't focus on who's in office, or which party screwed up. We should only focus on holding who ever is President accountable. I believe to this day, that those who supported Bush failed him the most. Why? Because they fell off. They didn't watch what he was doing, They weren't interested in his governance. They didn't follow policy. They seemed to be in it only for the blood sport of it. The confrontation of it. No one (who supported Bush) seemed to care that he was going off key. And if those people would have just checked Bush, he would have been a little more careful, so it was his own supporters that fail him, and this nation the most.
Everyone just laughed Ron Paul's ideas off like he was some kind of joke. That's the system, and I don't find it too inspiring: 2 big machines get the power to laugh off anything that isn't going to fit into their limited set of beliefs.
In the years that I have been able to vote (g.w. bush #1, g.w. bush #2 and now this year), I haven't preferred the republican ticket. Basically I haven't liked or trusted or agreed with G.W. Bush and now McCain/Palin. So what else can I do? I'm far more curious about Obama and what he may accomplish during 4-8 years. I also think he is a gifted orator, and I agree with his policy on energy among other things.
Any real change in politics won't come from any one president. It will when those in power run out of money, energy or influence (or probably all 3 at once). Or it will come in the form of a revolution. Or perhaps it will come slowly over time as future generations bring an ideological shift to washington.
I work in the internet industry and the culture here is far different from a typical corporate job. This culture came into being when younger people innovated and turned that into success and profit. Because of that I can wear jeans and a T-Shirt to work, and don't have to pay homage to some structured hierarchy. That kind of change in government is at least within the realm of possibility.
I have written my thought's and views down in an article @
The original Six-pack Joe verses moose-huntin' gun-totin' God-fearin' born-again tax- cuttin' maverick hockey mom
Stop on by and discuss the points of view I've expressed.
I'm a headhunter for the IT and Engineering industries, and am well aware of the corporate culture difference of which you speak. I don't know what you specifically do, but I know that we have such great competition with foreign outlets now that there's a great degree of dissatisfaction among American software engineers and architects who are competing unfairly because of the outsourced positions, and because of H1-B Visa candidates. Nothing's too new, but nothing's getting better either.