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by Elizabeth Madrigal
Member since:
August 22, 2007

McCain 'won' the debate. Or did he?

September 27, 2008 01:57 PM EDT (Updated: April 23, 2009 02:09 PM EDT)
views: 1271 | rating: 8.9/10 (27 votes) | comments: 88

Of course I watched the debate last night.  Everyone I know made sure they were near a television, alert and ready to focus on the foreign and economic policies both candidates would surely discuss.  I have outlined what I heard and observed and then put my own interpretation of his political reasoning for these behaviors and comments, trying to determine which were 'in code' to his base.

Mainly I was fascinated by McCain's body language and facial expressions, so here are a few of my observations.

McCain:  "I did not win Miss Congeniality in the Senate."

My thoughts:  No, you have not.  Why?  First of all you are hardly ever there to vote on anything.  As a matter of fact, you have not cast a vote in the Senate on anything since early April 2008.  Furthermore, most of your senate peers have learned to dislike your temper tantrums, flip-floppng on issues, grand-standing and attempts (like any true narcissist) to get all the attention for yourself. 

Is it any wonder that you are not a consensus builder and your appearance in Washington on Thursday and Friday did nothing but upset the applecart?  You have also shown absolutely no leadership in anything but attempting to look presidential.  Of course, I understand, as our current president is an embarrassment to everybody, but that's another rant.

McCain:  "I've been to Iraq, to Kosovo, to Bosnia, to Afghanistan, etc."

My thoughts:  I've worked in a drug store, a factory, an insurance company, a law office, a bank, a mortgage brokerage, a symphony, a television studio, a non-profit and am an independent business woman, writer, artist and grandmother.  I've also lived out of the country for three years and have traveled much more than Sarah Palin ever did.  I've also, legitimately, met more heads of state than she had until last week.  Bush has been all over the world, but he is still a schmuck.  So am I more qualified than Sarah Palin to be a heartbeat away from the presidency?

McCain's Facial Expressions:  Ugly, hateful, scornful....

My thoughts:  Maybe bitter, bitter, bitter would cover most of it?  Not hardly.  He squinted, refused any direct eye contact with Obama, even after Jim Lehrer attempted to get him to actually look at and address Senator Obama.  He scowled, gritted his teeth and jaws, had that awful phony grin - the one predators like wolves have when their eyes are hard and cold and they are actually trying to find a way to chomp on a major artery in their prey. 

He was condescending the way men are in public when they really would like to punch the living daylights out of their (a) wife, (b) child, (c) opponent.  This was so obvious from all the facial clues and his stiff-necked, stiff-jawed delivery of his words.  The only time his eyes would light up with any real passion was when he was being destructively negative and lying about Senator Obama's positions or voting record.  Oh, right, when he lied about his own record, his eyes would light up as well. 

I found this very peculiar, as most people blink and look away when they are lying.  Everyone but the true borderline personality.  What is a mini-definition of someone with that personality disorder?  (1)  They are passionate only about themselves.  (2)  They actually have no compassion or empathy for others.  (3)  They can be utterly charming when they want something, as there are no moral values that hold them back from bull****ting their 'victims'.  (4)  They always are cultivating a caretaker like Cindy or his first wife.  (5)  They are often highly intelligent but also highly manipulative.  (6)  They often are high achievers, as they have no concerns for the rights of others and see others only with regard to their usefulness in fulfilling their own goals.  (7)  They feel superior to everyone else, and thereby justify their great lust for power and celebrity.  Oh there are other characteristics, mainly that these are people who are functioning even though mentally ill. 

My reaction as an old white woman:   If you think your 'coded' body language and words were lost on us, think again.  We saw and heard everything.  If it weren't so early in the morning, I'd tear you apart limb by limb, but you are not worth it.  You are just an old bigot who will use whatever it takes to scare Americans into voting against their own self-interest.

I will go to hell, skinned alive, tortured, water-boarded, blinded and beaten to a pulp before I will ever vote for you.  Senator Obama may have too much class to call a spade a spade, but I don't.  Give it up, McCain.  You are a disgrace to yourself.

Oh, and as a postscript, what did I think about Senator Obama's responses in the debate?  They were clear, concise, factual, intelligent and I was really proud of him for attempting to have a real debate.  McCain would not engage, but that had nothing to do with Senator Obama, who wanted an authentic give-and-take. 

The male Obama supporters may think that he should have landed a few more punches, but in reality, that is not Obama's disposition.  He is a thinker, not an overblown poser or dirty-fighting bully like his opponent. 

The female Obama supporters - and I would imagine many new converts as of last night - interpreted John McCain's intent without error.  We saw him as the nasty, arrogant, condescending and elite little S.O.B. he is.  We've been dominated and abused by men like him all our 75%-of-pay lives.  Sorry, elderly Mrs. McCain, but you raised a nasty little boy who is not beneath exploiting even his military service to make points while he hypocritically ignores the needs of other veterans who served just as bravely. 

So have at me you anonymous, drive-by low-raters without the hoozies to show your real identities on Gather.  The truth is still the truth, no matter how low you try to rate my post.  Go Obama 2008!

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Comments: 88

Debra C. Sep 27, 2008, 2:07pm EDT
Foreign policy, as a debate subject, was supposed to be McCain's strong suit. While he showed some differences from Obama, he did not outshine Obama (who many expected to be uninformed and vague on the subject). Because of this, Obama narrowly won.

McCain will now go into two more debates that are considered stronger for Obama. In these, he will need to be more formidable than he has previously seemed on the subjects. That is unlikely.

Another reason, which may have been the tie-braker ... McCain thinking that though he was not on the financial committees, he should be in Washington sitting and waiting rather than at the debate. Presidents must multi-task. Voting on the outcome of the committee determinations will be vital for both candidates, but the Senate would have waited for them rather than voting without. Its about understanding priorities.
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Milt S. Sep 27, 2008, 2:14pm EDT
In my opionion, McCain looked like he wanted to bite Obama's head off.
I turned it on late, and saw an encounter where McCain went on a filibuster, not really saying anything, but not letting Obama speak.
I don't see McCain as a rational, controlled person...
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Ron B. Sep 27, 2008, 2:25pm EDT
McCain can't seem to talk with lying about Obama even when he's ten feet away.
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Milt S. Sep 27, 2008, 2:27pm EDT
As far as "winning" MSNBC poll shows Obama won big:
Obama 79%
McCain 15%

http://jeffblack.newsvine.com/_question/2008/09/26/1919787-who-won-the-presidential-debate
I agree with that poll.


LA Times poll also shows Obama won handily.
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Marianne M. Sep 27, 2008, 2:28pm EDT
You certainly got it right, Elizabeth!!!!!!! Unfortunately, most of the McCain supporters won't see what we saw ...
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Lori F. Sep 27, 2008, 2:29pm EDT
Elizabeth what can I say. Excellent article and your POV is very strong as are your reasons for it.
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Milt S. Sep 27, 2008, 2:31pm EDT
Even the unbiased UK Guardian says Obama won huge:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/poll/2008/sep/27/obama.mccain.election.debate

I think this is the beginning of the end for John McCain...
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Janell R. Sep 27, 2008, 2:53pm EDT
The most positive thing I heard in regards to how McCain did last night from conservative pundits was that he did better than they expected. Even they admitted that Obama looked and acted presidential.
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David K. Sep 27, 2008, 3:45pm EDT
Thanks for your perspective
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Whoop Urazz Sep 27, 2008, 3:56pm EDT
Sounds like the rants of some nasty looking jilted b*tch to me. Get over being left alone for the 10th time. Barack isn't going to win this election, and you morons can keep making your stupid ass posts. Just 3 lines quoted from the debate, I guess you couldn't find much you could remember in your drunken stupor. Maybe quote some of the brilliant ideas Barack Osama gave us. You're all just a bunch of slobbering America haters.
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Tad W. Sep 27, 2008, 4:06pm EDT
This was supposed to be McCain's strong subject for debate... the fact that Obama not only held his own, but got in some good counters as well, is not a good sign for the Republicans.

This his been Obama's election to lose for months, and that is even more the case today compared to yesterday. And he's likely to have a very receptive Congress when he takes office. God help us all.
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Cynthia C. Sep 27, 2008, 4:12pm EDT
Whoop Urazz,

You sure do have your panties in a bunch don't you? Guess it's hard to be seen as being on the side of the ignorant losers, while simultaneously watching the economy of the country go down the tubes...after almost 8 years of republican party rule. Yeah - we need more of those FANTASTIC policies for another 4 years until we all eat dirt...
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lawrence stacey Sep 27, 2008, 4:14pm EDT
hi elizabeth - good observations & analysis of the presidential debate. in my own case, lacking a TV, i did not 'see' the candidates, but i did listen by radio. what i 'heard' in the voice of mccain was a wavering, quavering loss of comfort, uncertainty, some confusion. on the other hand, Barack Obama sounded competent, calm, and knowledgeable - a confident command of the issues. it was interesting to choose the winner based on the truth i sensed in the tone of voice. congratulations Barack!
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Nippy Katz (not his real name) Patriotic Troll of Gather Freedom Sep 27, 2008, 4:16pm EDT
One of the things that fascinated me was that George Will had some nice things to say about Obama after the debate. In fact he had more good things to say about Obama than he had for McCain.

I got a kick out of the borderline personality analysis.

I tried to view the debate from the point of view of someone judging the effect of an ad. I think it was very close. Some people find Obama too smart. Some people like McCain's bellicosity. I'm surprised by the results of the polls. I was guessing that very few undecided voters were influenced one way or the other.
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Cynthia C. Sep 27, 2008, 4:17pm EDT
Elizabeth,

I had the same response as you did last night, but one thing you can't take away from McCain is his "whiteness" - man that guy is whiter than white with that plastered down hair that looks like it was painted on, and those teeth, yuck, those teeth...but it is that "whiteness" that is all some voters, like old Whoop need to see...it's enough for them...
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sharon SugarMomma is a wise woman, Sep 27, 2008, 4:22pm EDT
We were trying to figure out how many times he said Patreus on Lori's debate chat last night, which is the only thing that kept me sane during the debate.

McCain is a doddering, dangerous sociopath. He kept yacking about his life and who he knew.

John where is your little handmaiden? Where was she last night?

Oh, in the closet, good call, go join her.

Good job and spot on Elizabeth.
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sharon SugarMomma is a wise woman, Sep 27, 2008, 4:25pm EDT
Oh and the whistle, his dentures were coming loose from clenching his teeth, so whenever he used a word with an "s" in it, he whistled.

Now that was funny
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Mooch -. Sep 27, 2008, 4:27pm EDT
Everything I have read, and I did NOT watch the debate, we watched something else, has said Obama won, I really don't know, this aspect of politics really bores me, so I will read about it, but watching it, not my cup of tea.

But I can get a good idea of what the gist of it was from Cnn and there are always transcripts available, but its rehashing everything about the war and the economy, and usually political debates turn ugly,
Mooch
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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 27, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
Whoop Urazz, another neo-con who doesn't dare use his REAL name because he would be shunned even by his kids... I take everything you said as a compliment. The last thing in the world I would want is someone like you to want to be-friend me. Obviously, I must have some character as not everybody likes me.

Funny how telling it like it is in plain English really got to you. As you don't have the guts to identify yourself, I'm not too worried about you 'whooping anybody's ass'. Bullies rarely show their real stuff to anyone who is obviously bigger than they are. Trying to compensate for something there?
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Kerrell g. Sep 27, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
"I did not win Miss Congeniality in the Senate."

McCain congenial? My xgf was more congenial than McCan't. Obama not only won, he took McCan't lunch money!
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Laurie H. Sep 27, 2008, 5:07pm EDT
Nice, Elizabeth. You put several of my thoughts in your article. And thank-you for standing up to the bullying. I personally know someone who lost his son to suicide from on-line bullying. It is a serious problem for thousands of kids in our country and under the republican administration, support for educational programs against bullying has been inadequate.
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Bruce K. Sep 27, 2008, 5:15pm EDT
I meant to say that the article was nicely stated, not the post directly above where I first clicked this in.
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Kenneth P.G. ∎ 4th Movement in B minor ∎ Sep 27, 2008, 5:25pm EDT
EXEMPLARY POST


Bravo!
Elizabeth, I share your unmitigated glee at watching this patchwork of pariahs, and their new prom queen, go down in flames over the next six weeks. I’ve waited 8 years for this and it is a thing to behold. Truly!

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Jack E. Sep 27, 2008, 5:28pm EDT
McCain could not win the debate because he did not debate anything all he did was run Obama down the same way he does on the campaign trail, I would not call that debating.
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Wilma D. Sep 27, 2008, 5:28pm EDT
Great rant! GObama!!!
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Kenneth P.G. ∎ 4th Movement in B minor ∎ Sep 27, 2008, 5:35pm EDT
SIMPLY THE BEST


Palin description from Friday
morning, by on ? MARK MORFORD?




…she's basically Dick Cheney with a hair bun, and is about as friendly to the feminine cause as a reef shark to a menstruating mermaid.”

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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 27, 2008, 6:56pm EDT
Oh goodness, Ken... that was a great description of her 'policies' if I ever heard one. I'll have to read Mark's column.

Thanks for all the encouragement and validation, everybody. I think it is about time that America woke up and realized how dangerous McCain could be... never mind his new sidekick. He's stubborn, or I would expect him to dump her, but he's one of those guys who cannot admit when he's wrong. That would actually take character not posturing.
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Ginger B. Sep 27, 2008, 7:00pm EDT
Thanks Elizabeth! I just join gather today and I'm so happy that there are still people out that think for themselves. I thought everybody was brainwashed from Bush. I'm glad I was wrong. You go girl. And go OBAMA!!!
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Ted Mooney Sep 27, 2008, 7:23pm EDT
Simple question: what could McCain have said or done to change a word of your rant. Nothing, of course. Which simply means it's a closed-minded rant, based on nothing, and undeserving of any thinking person's attention.
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katherine b. Sep 27, 2008, 8:22pm EDT
Good article, though I think the psychological analysis goes too far. McCain doesn't need to be characterized as a sociopath, like he said "the American people know (him) very well".
We know that his "maverick" voting record is untrue. We know his foreign policy is a one-note idea-“more boots on the ground.” We know he is despised by his own party. We know that even HE didn’t want to choose Palin. We know he has reversed his position on the environment, on immigration, on tax cuts for the wealthy. Oh we know McCain. Frankly, I’m surprised McCain is getting the traction he is.
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Chris W. Sep 27, 2008, 8:48pm EDT
Elizabeth- I won't go all the way, but I will go most of the way. McCain is playing the role, or maybe actually believing it, that Barack Obama is an incompetent child. Barack Obama is far from an incompetent child, and he proved it last night. Stop it with the scorn and contempt thing, McCain, it's silly- and it's now obviously wrong.
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Billy Davis Sep 27, 2008, 8:51pm EDT
I see this election as a competition between two completely different views of manhood. One (McCain's character), sees the test of a true man is the ability to seize power and pummel through any perceived opposition. The other (Obama's character), sees the test of a true man is the ability to produce, build, support.

McCain style manhood functions well in the movies, comic books, and romance novels (for the first 4/5ths of the book. It plays on the mythology of the old west. It reaches back to the middle ages with the knights and rogues.

Obama style manhood functions well for fathers, businessmen, doctors, and other civilized occupations. It is the man the heroine in the romance novels ultimately turns that rogue into.

A civilized nation needs men who hold the outlook that problems are confronted with wit and forethought and not rash responses. The tribal regions of Pakistan is a better setting for people who have rash responses and a view that one side is all good and the other is all evil. In a civilized society we have less use for a view of manhood that the Taliban would agree with.
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Aunt Boni H. Sep 27, 2008, 10:10pm EDT
Whew! Elizabeth, you wore me OUT, Girl!

I watched every minute of the "debate". McCain stood there rattling off from the Republican "Who's Who" list, reminded us (AGAIN) of his time in prison, and proved once again that he has no concept of what main stream America is all about.

He has the same cold, fish-eyed, soul-less presence of George W. Bush.

He's been in Washington for 26 years. What has he accomplished with the "experience" he has collected? How on earth did he become the Republican candidate for President of the United States? How the hell did he become a Senator? The guy is another lying puppet to the disdainful organization known as the Republican party.

Who won? I don't think one "wins" debates. The only way two people can debate and have someone come out the victor, is for one debater to say "You're right, Barack, you're absolutely right on the topic. I'm a bumbling fool to think for one minute I could actually lead this country back into peace and prosperity". And Senator Obama replies with, "Yes, John, the rest of already knew that."
..
U
OBAMA/BIDEN 2008!
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Brian T. Sep 27, 2008, 10:27pm EDT
The fact of the matter is that McCain never wanted to face Obama on national TV. One of the myths that McCain has spread is how Barack doesn't grasp foreign policy. Well surprise. Barack Obama seems to grasp foreign affairs better than McCain. Now America has viewed it right in front of their eyes on TV. The very thing McCain tried to hide for months and did not want the people to become aware of and let alone see for themselves.
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Digital Diva S. Sep 27, 2008, 10:37pm EDT
Thanks for posting this to Best Original Photos, Art and Writing for 2008
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Kathryn E. Sep 27, 2008, 10:38pm EDT
Your article is Featured in the Triple Name Club.
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Kimberly Ripley Sep 27, 2008, 11:23pm EDT
Captivating! I missed the debate. Can you believe I was so sleep-deprived that I actually thought it was airing tonight instead of last night? I've read a lot of reviews and recaps and none have summed it up quite the way you have here. Your candor is refreshing in a world where BS reigns supreme.
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Robert S. Sep 28, 2008, 12:33am EDT
Good post. I couldn't agree more.
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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 28, 2008, 1:09am EDT
I guess most commenters agree with me to some extent, with a few who think I am a disgruntled wacko. My passion has been dialed up as I watched a grown man of 72 act like an arrogant thirteen-year-old who has little more than posturing with which to compete.

You are right, Ted, nothing McCain said last night changed my rant. However, had he said, "I have been a lying SOB during this campaign and embarrassed myself and my supporters with my disgusting dirty, lying anti-Obama political ads because I was crazed by the lust for power and the presidency." That would have impressed me.
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keisha scott Sep 28, 2008, 1:30am EDT
I think he did pretty well. He made some valid points and at times made Obama look "wet behind the ears".
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Ted Mooney Sep 28, 2008, 2:36am EDT
Check any reputable neutral party like factcheck.org to find that McCain and Obama are running about even in dishonest attack ads. McCain supporters fall far short of Obama supporters in silly personal attacks about jowls, lisps, etc. -- probably because Obama supporters are of the "I Want" generation. Sadly, their "I Want Obama " easily trumps any call for civility, logic, balance, fair play, restraint, or basic honesty.
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Krissy spreading my wings hoping to soar W. Sep 28, 2008, 2:59am EDT
This comment is to let you know that this content has reached at least ten comments, and as such has been removed from Comment Speedway! Congratulations!
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Prima Donna Sep 28, 2008, 8:19am EDT
Thank you for saying what I've been thinking. Obama won the debate, hands down -- on substance and on style. He was intelligent, civil and respectful, yet firm. McCain was smirking, wouldn't even look Obama in the eye, and very condescending. I think the American people got a glimpse of what a McCain presidency would be like. Every questions was filtered through the lens of Iraq and military might. But what would you expect from a privileged son of admirals, someone who finished fifth from the bottom of his class?
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Prima Donna Sep 28, 2008, 8:21am EDT
Every poll I've seen has shown Obama won the debate by almost a two to one margin. And foreign affairs was supposed to be John McCain's best suit?
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Julia Star Sep 28, 2008, 8:47am EDT
The only people I am hearing that say McCain won are McCain staffers. Oh, and fellow geezer, David Broder at the Washington Post.
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Mariana T. Sep 28, 2008, 11:06am EDT
Your words very eloquently written mirror my exact thoughts - I only wish I could have expressed myself half as well as you have done here. Excellent post and yes, I watched the debate - absolutely noticed the body language - in fact, I had to laugh as that's the first thing I noticed as well as the over used line about the Congeniality thing which was old mothball locker room humor at its worse. If after that speech and after listening to the interview that Palin had with Couric, folks still want to vote for the McCain ticket, then the United States has bigger problems than I thought. Salud
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Mariana T. Sep 28, 2008, 11:08am EDT
Oh, and as a postscript, what did I think about Senator Obama's responses in the debate? They were clear, concise, factual, intelligent and I was really proud of him for attempting to have a real debate. McCain would not engage, but that had nothing to do with Senator Obama, who wanted a real give-and-take.

I absolutely agree. Thank you Salud
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Mariana T. Sep 28, 2008, 11:14am EDT
My thoughts: I've worked in a drug store, a factory, an insurance company, a law office, a bank, a mortgage brokerage, a symphony, a television studio, a non-profit and am an independent business woman, writer, artist and grandmother. I've also lived out of the country for three years and have traveled much more than Sarah Palin ever did. I've also, legitimately, met more heads of state than she had until last week. Bush has been all over the world, but he is still a schmuck. So am I more qualified than Sarah Palin to be a heartbeat away from the presidency?

You and many other women are much more qualified to be a heart beat away from the Presidency. I keep thinking that she was chosen because he wants to lose and she's a good excuse to keep him from winning. At least, I know many folks who were half-ass thinking of voting for McCain but couldn't stomach the fact that HE CHOSE this woman who doesn't represent any of the women I know in ANY way and can't even answer basic questions - what a complete joke. Salud
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Katrina Hall Sep 28, 2008, 11:16am EDT
RAH! You go, Elizabeth! I couldn't get over McCains facial gestures - the smirks, the lack of eye contact, the sneering - I ask you - is that in any way presidential?
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Baby J. Sep 28, 2008, 11:20am EDT
McCain must have won the debate. His campaign announced McCain had won the debate on Friday before he announced he would attend it.
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Brad D. Sep 28, 2008, 11:30am EDT
Great post, Elizabeth!
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Dorothy H. Sep 28, 2008, 11:43am EDT
Fantastic article!!! Billy Davis's response also sums it up supurbly!!!
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Kevin T. Sep 28, 2008, 1:23pm EDT
I couldn't agree with you more Elizabeth. I joined the site just to congratulate you!!
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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 28, 2008, 1:57pm EDT
Ted, you are amazing in your ability to see what you want to see. It wasn't just the question of the 'truthiness' of John McCain's attacks on Obama, it was the level to which the GOP and McCain sunk in creating 'coded' messages. Like what? The Paris Hilton/Britney Spears stuff which was intended, by many accounts, to 'rile the racists'. Implying that Barack Obama was somehow 'Unamerican' because his father was an immigrant... and also inciting religious bigotry with the intent of misleading people into thinking Obama was a 'secret' muslim because his Kenyan grandfather was.

Of course, someone's religion is not a test for the Presidency of this country, but McCain has been trying to divert and mislead on that one in a disgusting way along with his friends like Rush Limbaugh, who was the champion of Sarah Palin's candidacy.

Obviously this sort of dirty politics is taking the 'low road'. There is nothing that will 'fact check' that, but I have faith that the majority of Americans are not stupid enough to fall for that as evidenced by the newest polls.

We know one thing about John McCain. He is a skillful politician and will go to any lengths to feed his ambition and achieve his ultimate goal - lots of attention. Just like that naughty little boy in class, who when he couldn't get the teacher's attention by being the smartest or the hardest working, did absolutely obnoxious crap out of his bag of tricks.
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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 28, 2008, 2:03pm EDT
Dorothy H., I loved Billy Davis's summary and think he should write a full article on that! I agree, it said it all.
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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 28, 2008, 2:08pm EDT
Kevin T., I am humbled. Truthfully, as a business person who relies on the public for my living, I know it is dangerous to really speak out with what I believe. I am certainly not a middle of the road person on this election but have realized that the McCain/GOP operatives are excellent at twisting reality to suit their goals. This makes it imperative for all of us to risk exposing ourselves or we'll have another 'Swift Boat' theft of the election.

Candidly? The Internet has changed politics forever and finally the people - meaning you, me and even Whoop Urazz and Ted Mooney up above - can have their say. Oh, and I do not mean to class Ted in with Whoop, as Whoop is in a class by himself. Ted is certainly respectful and rational and also man enough to identify himself, a position I respect even if we disagree on issues.
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Kevin T. Sep 28, 2008, 2:42pm EDT
Elizabeth, I think you've just said what a lot of us have been feeling. I am also a business person, and I continue to be cautious about loud declarations about this election. But I had the same visceral reaction during the debate as I did when I saw the end of John McCain's RNC acceptance speech. We simply can't afford the "fight, fight, fight" mentality anymore. It is the very thing that has created two wars and a devastated economy. We badly need a statesman in the Oval Office. Let the debate be your guide. Which one of those men is most capable of dealing with a crisis? Which one is more statesmanlike?
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Dena Straughn Sep 28, 2008, 3:23pm EDT
I missed the debates. Funny, I have been glued to Fox News for months, then Ryan arrives, the day before the debate, and I have not turned the TV on. I am in such baby love. I just pray the right person for his future ends up in the white house.
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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 28, 2008, 7:05pm EDT
Congrats on the baby, Dena, but make sure you watch more than Fox news, as they are very biased to the right. That new baby of yours deserves only the best.
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Sandy F. Sep 28, 2008, 8:10pm EDT
Great article, Liz. I couldn't agree more.
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Digital Diva S. Sep 28, 2008, 8:48pm EDT
Good golly I agree 100% with what you have have written so far. I just wish I had the way with words to express just how outraged I become every time McCain opens his mouth.
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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 28, 2008, 10:42pm EDT
Thanks Sandy F., and Marilyn. This evening I spent calling potential voters who are independent or leaning towards the democratic ticket with the hope that I could influence them. This was more of a risk than this article or any other, though, as these people are in my neighborhood, or more accurately, in my precinct.

I decided to give my full name - what have I got to lose except friends, business and reputation? - and speak from my heart without any prepared script. I was rewarded with my last call when the woman said, "What is your name again? I want to thank you, because I am afraid to speak up with my friends." How many women have felt that you would lose a friendship over this election?

That is why I want Senator Obama to be elected president. I know that he will stop even people like me from behaving in such a partisan way. He will force me to develop my sense of fairness and I will learn to get along once again with the other 'side' because it will become my fellow citizens. After all, I love America and Americans with all my heart. I have lived out of the country and even with all our current problems, this is still the best place in the world to live, bar none. Okay, so maybe some Greek isle would be nice... but really, America can be great again. We just need to work hard to bring common sense and real patriotism - taking care of our fellow man - back into vogue.
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Ladybounty ~. Sep 29, 2008, 1:08pm EDT
I was disappointed also with the lack of info but to be honest I don't think that either one of them knows how to straighten out this terrible economic mess that George W. has spawned. This is a very good....well written.....factual article, Elizabeth.
If we have to base 'winning' on which candidate presented themself better and raised confidence that they will be able to conduct themself in a presidential matter across the board in general.....Obama WON HANDS DOWN!
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Digital Diva S. Sep 29, 2008, 2:24pm EDT
Thanks for posting this to Best Original Photos, Art and Writing for 2008
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Kenneth P.G. ∎ 4th Movement in B minor ∎ Sep 29, 2008, 5:16pm EDT
PALIN - A POST TURTLE

While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75-year old Texas rancher who was injured while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to Sarah Palin and her bid to be a heartbeat away from being President.



The old rancher said, "Well, ya know, Palin is a post turtle."

Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a post turtle was.



The old rancher said, "When you're driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle." The old rancher saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he continued to explain.



"You know she didn't get up there by herself, she doesn't belong up there, she doesn't know what to do while she is up there and you just wonder what kind of dumb ass put her up there to begin with."
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Ted Mooney Sep 29, 2008, 5:51pm EDT
I am probably voting for Obama, despite respect for McCain, because the Republicans must be punished for Bush -- the worst president in my lifetime. We need witch hunters in the White House (not whitewashers) to uncover the wrongdoings and turn things around. But I don't side with the kind of thought patterns I see posted here, nor kneejerk hatred of Hillary, McCain, Palin, Nader, Ron Paul and anybody else who is a threat to the "I demand Obama" mentality. I think the small minority of rabid supporters are a hindrance not a help to his candidacy.
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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 29, 2008, 9:29pm EDT
I respect your very intelligent point, and although I try to be rational, I am a mortgage broker and an artist and sometimes I just have to say it the way I feel it because I cannot take anymore.

Certainly I should put my dukes down and fight like a lady, but I have done that the last two elections and I feel like I have to go 1000% or we will have 4 more years of the same. I'm about ready to keel over, but I have children and young grandchildren and before I go I want their lives to be protected. I am sorry if I am not as ladylike as usual, but hey. Everybody's got a limit.

You can be the one gentleman who sets the example and leads us forward with some standards of conduct in the Obama administration. It is our cumulative frustration - and in my case watching millions of people begin to lose their homes and jobs - that makes me feel crazy.

In summary, point taken. You are surely right about the rabies issue.:)
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Lewis Walsh Sep 30, 2008, 12:19pm EDT
For me, Elizabeth, in addition to your well-stated observations, I think that one must take into serious account the history of an individual who is debating and carefully observe body language. The human brain is quite deft at lying, the human body is not. Obama is a rather self-made individual who has made his own way, and therefore, would have an understanding of the plight of ordinary people. It seems to me that this has been well demonstrated in his open stance and his ability to look at everyone in the eye.

McCain, on the other hand, has had everything handed to him from birth. His existence has been maintained by a military that is actually an island of socialism within a capitalist state. I would guess that in addition to any investment income or wealth that he may have married into, his life has been taxpayer supported. Not having ever had to think about food and shelter, he cannot relate to ordinary people. His dismissive body language and lack of eye contact has demonstrated that he has a disdain for people not of his ilk.

This is an individual who is not just out touch with ordinary Americans; this is an individual who has never been in touch. But the most important thing that voters should consider is that this is a person who loves his military elitism and, he will find it difficult as president to accept concepts beyond the framework of his life. In other words, this is a dangerous man.
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Lewis Walsh Sep 30, 2008, 2:01pm EDT
I just saw this; written by a distinguished US diplomat:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amb-richard-c-holbrooke/calm-methodical-obama-vs_b_130343.html
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Lewis Walsh Sep 30, 2008, 2:05pm EDT
Sorry, try this:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amb-richard-c-holbrooke/calm-
methodical-obama-vs_b_130343.html
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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 30, 2008, 2:29pm EDT
Lewis, that article link is a very good one. Amb. Holbrooke calmly and diplomatically points out what most of us who watched the debate felt on a deeply psychic level. It was impossible not to evaluate the potential behavior of these men based on their demeanor in the debate. It was obvious how their underlying motivations and life experience have truly formed their basic characters. Thanks for the link, Lewis, and your very wise comments.
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Michael Harvey Sep 30, 2008, 6:40pm EDT
Elizabeth, great piece of journalism from you again. I was not able to see the debate. As some of you are aware, I am living the life of a hermit in the Great Smokey Mountains working to complete my first novel entitled PAPER PUZZLE and therefore, I do not have radio or television in my cabin. However, my dear wife called to say you have to at least hear this debate. She turned the volume of the television up in my family room back home and I listen to it via my cell phone speakers. The tense nuances that many have commented upon having observed through the medium of television were apparent to me through the media of sound. Of course, my dear, McCain did not win the debate.
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Elizabeth Madrigal Sep 30, 2008, 7:06pm EDT
Wow, Michael Harvey. Holed up and really doing it! Your son (and wife) will be really proud of you. Everyone on Gather is too!
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Ted Mooney Sep 30, 2008, 7:25pm EDT
That was perhaps a fair article by Richard Holcombe. Surrounded as it was by 20, count 'em twenty, pictorial lambasts of McCain/Palin (3 sides of the page), including pictures of Palin as a beauty contest participant, I got distracted, said to myself "consider the source", and never finished the presumably deep "analysis".
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Ted Mooney Sep 30, 2008, 7:28pm EDT
BTW, the way to decide who "won" a debate is probably by who changed people's minds. If you find someone who changed their mind, let me know. Haven't found a one so far in a hundred blogs.
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sheila h. Sep 30, 2008, 8:39pm EDT
The debate was lackluster. Neither side tipped their hand or presented revelations.
As far as convincing to switch side (I cannot help but think of the Seinfield episode about that but the statement about switching had a totally different connotation)
I don't think either candidate succeeded.
Obama presented himself as he normally does ,an erudite ,thoughtful individual although he deferred to McCain too often ...'Senator McCain is correct' Obama would say.Think this stemmed from his natural instincts and good manners to defer to elders ?
John McCan't continued to embrace that same nasty,old ,saber rattlin' 'Let me tell you how I won the war ,Sonny Boy' curmudgeon attitude..
nuff said..
the VP debate is going to be more colorful,I believe..Biden is entertaining with his verbosity..even his errors and gaffes will be more enlightening that what's her face..that bohunk from the permafrost..:) although she is damn funny when she is pulling answers outta her butt.
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Kenneth P.G. ∎ 4th Movement in B minor ∎ Oct 1, 2008, 10:35am EDT
Elizabeth, dear >

Per chance, did you read MARK this morning?

"To which we can only say: At last! Here is your bipartisanship, America. All the years of acrimony and fiery spittle, finally we have a grand issue around which both parties can rally: George W. Bush is dead!"

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/10/01/notes100108.DTL&nl=fix
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Elizabeth Madrigal Oct 1, 2008, 1:38pm EDT
I'll read it right now, Ken. Thanks!
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Kenneth P.G. ∎ 4th Movement in B minor ∎ Oct 1, 2008, 2:25pm EDT
Elizabeth, dear >

I needn't comment but I will - for the public record.

So much is at stake in this American election. You, like me, can perceive that NOW is a truly historic transition.

Sometimes I see matters in terms of a liberated Rome after the self-inflicted death of megalomaniac Nero. At others I sense the unlocking of the gates at fetid Auschwitz in 1945. Either way our nation is about to shed the social shackles of ineptitude and disgrace and start down a new, uncertain path, filled with hope.

Thank you for writing this chronicle of quickly unfolding events here on Gather. Thank you, in advance, for parsing the public field dressing of Palin tomorrow night. These events need discussion … and public rebuke.

I look forward to your historic words. This comes from my heart.

Rejoicing admiringly,

~ Ken
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Charlene C. Oct 2, 2008, 2:20pm EDT
McCain was right on. He showed every lie and stretch of the imagination that Obama gave in the debate. I never did hear Obama say what he was willing to give up. He talks for 2 minutes and says nothing about the question asked.
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Elizabeth Madrigal Oct 2, 2008, 6:58pm EDT
Charlene C., I don't think we watched the same debate, as I would not describe McCain as anything but bluster and bad attitude. So as I said, we must have been watching different channels.
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Kenneth P.G. ∎ 4th Movement in B minor ∎ Oct 2, 2008, 7:41pm EDT
It's debate night again people!

Let's get ready to RRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUMBLE!
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Kenneth P.G. ∎ 4th Movement in B minor ∎ Oct 2, 2008, 8:31pm EDT
Elizabeth: They are on their way to the White House.

This is Barack,
Hilary,
Joe,
and Michelle
after they found out who McCain’s running mate was going to be.

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Elizabeth Madrigal Oct 3, 2008, 3:18am EDT
Oh, that is great, Ken.:) It makes me laugh just looking at it.
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Kenneth P.G. ∎ 4th Movement in B minor ∎ Oct 3, 2008, 7:23am EDT
My early, short analysis — now — before the punditry un-purifies me …

Last night was a superior debate AND performance than between Barack and John. As a competitive debate, in other words, as regards questions, answers, proofs, supporting proofs, rebuttal, etc., Biden kicked her ass — hands down.

BUT —

and this is HUGE —

as a communicative performance to TV Boobus Americanus Joe Six-Pack, Palin was über-effective beyond all base expectations. She put her Gidget/Mommie package to work early and often. She bored with her eyes into the camera, cocked her head furtively (when timely) and drilled into to the shallow cortex of the Booboiserie. Alas, as a result she will be judged a winner in the court of public opinion because, in part, expectations were so low … and beauty queen cute wins! Americans don't know debate from chopped liver.

? And then this, from my pet peeve perspective. Those two countries (Iraq and Iran) are pronounced Ihr-rahk and Ihr-rahn ... NOT... Eye-Rack and Eye-Ran. This linguistic barbarism makes me apoplectic with irritation, and is the telling hallmark of the Booboiserie.

The pestilence of Cruella de Wasilla is still among us.

Oh the humanity!

~ K
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sheila h. Oct 14, 2008, 1:23am EDT
LOL...that Ken...too much..he is a very very funny fellow.

That freaky focused stare she employed looking out past the monitors right into one's soul is a hipmotizin' tactic she learned at the feet of Jabba the current VP..
wait....maybe it's the secret moose meat makin' mojo ..that trance-like state she invokes in moose before that kill shot..hard to effect from a low flying helicopter but one must remember she is 50% of a Maverick team!
That is Maverical! Better than being Magical..
Lord of the Ring Maverical..in fact those bozos of the Neocon /GOP have screwed things up so much the past 8 years with impunity, without regard or the need to be accountable to anyone or anything that they must have gained possession of The Ring ..evil reigns!
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Melissa J Oct 16, 2008, 12:39pm EDT
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Elizabeth Madrigal Oct 29, 2008, 3:12pm EDT
Sheila... how I wish the McCain/Palin supporters 'got' it.
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