It cannot have escaped anyone's notice that there has been a substantial increase in political rants on Gather. The vitriolic nature of the mudslinging presidential campaigns has poured out of televisions and infected Americans.
The pen, once mightier than the sword, has been engaged as a weapon of mass destruction of character. Ironically, the targets of these malicious attacks are the two people chosen as best qualified to become the leader of the free world. One of these much maligned men will take the oath of office as President of the United States.
What should be a time of hope has become a period of fear, which breeds hatred, intolerance, and rage. Rather than looking for solutions to serious problems and planning for the future, Americans are divided. Neighbors, friends and relatives are choosing sides and hurting one another. What good can this attitude accomplish for those we love?
While we are all entitled to free speech, and are directly accountable for the consequences of our speech, can we speak and write with courtesy and respect for one another? Even when we disagree with another's view, we can word our comments respectfully.
There are some phrases that can, predictably, insult, irritate and hurt a person. I've been on the receiving end of a few of them. They include:
"People like you think...."
"You and your cohorts..."
"You're an idiot if you believe..."
"You've been brainwashed by..."
Considering the source has served well in the past, but it puzzles me when the sources appear to be the well-educated writers, artists, musicians, photographers and other creative members of Gather.
What is our behavior teaching our children? What kind of example are we setting? Do we want to be known as bitter, cruel and spiteful? Can we try harder to shake off the mud and shake hands with our friends?
Oh, and if any of you are my cohorts, or would like to be one, please let me know. I have been trying unsuccessfully to identify my cohorts. Maybe it was the brainwashing....
"If I speak with the tongues of angels and have not love, I am but a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal..."
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Comments: 49 ( 7 removed by Jan S. )
I don't think so but it appears lately that we are in the minority. Great article Jan.
I stay away from the subject all over the net,not just here on Gather.
You're right. Your article says it all perfectly, but with subjects like politics or religion, people have very strong views and sometimes type things that they'd never actually say (I hope) in public. I don't take things personally on here, as I would if my neighbor said them to me - actually I don't even take what my neighbors say to me that personally - we get along, or we don't.
Good article!
Marilyn
Join the club made up of those who support civil political discourse on Gather!
Well written and to the point Jan.
I have my signs posted and people can know my stand without exchanging any unpleasant words. So far I have not encountered any such situations.
There is NO good reason to call people names. This mud slinging lieing from both sides has a possable good side affect. Voter turn out. I think this Presidential election will bring out more voters than any in a very long time. A larger percentage of voters will register their opinion and that can't be bad.
Well written,makes some of us stop and think.
I like it that you asked what kind of example are we setting.
I agree with your article completely.
That's the only way you should handle a debate in politics.
I usually just say who I am voting for and leave.
Or say, I came by to give you a ten.
I really feel that the two party system is doing a disservice to our country. CHANGE is the hot buzzword. Let's begin by dismantling the political parties and allowing candidates to run on their own merit.
Sincerity and experience vs the guy with the toughest gang. Which is better?
Those phrases permeate political articles. Thank you for pointing them out.
Name calling isn't going to get anyone anywhere.
I'm glad you can all find peace in the turmoil that surrounds you, but that peace will be shattered if the forces of hate really are successful in winning the election. The what will you do when you are watching her burn?
War is a terrible thing, annd we are fighting a war right here for the future of American and the world. If you don't care enough to get informed and join the fight, then just stay out of the way, and cower in your corner.
-zz
My original post:
--- original message ---
From: Gene Gorter(ggorter)
Subject: Re: Provocative Language - Them’s fightin’ words!
Sent: Oct 12, 2008 06:10 AM EDT
Jan - I must say you are quite the hypocrite.
Do you know who wrote the following words comparing Obama to Hitler (I'll give you a hint - she's in your mirror every morning):
Obama has little substance or experience, but is a charismatic speaker. He has convinced a surprising number of people to drink the Kool-Aid without questioning its contents. I am afraid that his power of persuasion, like Adolph Hitler's, will lead to the downfall of our country. We wonder how people could follow Hitler, but he worked the same sort of dark magic as Obama.
=====================================
Sincerely
Gene
===========================
Your response
Message
I'm sorry if you were upset by that comment, Gene. I stand by my opinion as stated, however. You may have misunderstood my point.
I know the reference to Hitler is unpleasant, but not intended to be provocative. I don't say that Obama's values are the same as Hitler's, only that their powers of persuasion, like other charismatic speakers, have a powerful effect on people. The comparison is about effect, not values.
It's important to look behind the showmanship and examine the actual content and substance of the messages.
McCain is being punished for President Bush's policies, but no one seems to blame Obama for Clinton's.
I am seeing family members, friends and neighbors torn apart by this election. It may be the most divisive time in our history since the Civil War.
I think the anger people are feeling is based on fear. I am also afraid. Please be sure to watch Fox News at 9pm (eastern) tonight. There will be information presented that is important for American voters to know.
I apologize if I have offended you. I don't think I'm a hypocrite. I hold unpopular political views, and I respect the rights of all to express their views civilly, regardless of party or platform.
Peace.
Jan
=====================
My reply to your response:
Jan
You say "I know the reference to Hitler is unpleasant, but not intended to be provocative." - do you really believe that a reference to Hitler would NOT be provocative?
You were trying, if I understand correctly, to communicate that Obama had good communication skills. You don't think you could have found an un-provocative way of communicating that? Many politicians are good communicators - from Reagan to Clinton. Would you compare them both to Hitler?
You use the term "dark magic" in reference to both Hitler and Obama but don't explain. What Exactly does "dark magic" mean and you don't think you could have chosen your words in a less provocative way and in a way that is thoughtful, intelligent, respectful? Are we all to assume what "dark magic" is? Considering that Hitler killed millions of people you don't think that if you are going to make such comparisons you may want to back them up with fact or well articulated opinions? If your point is that people need to communicate in a clear and respectful manner then you may want to look in the mirror before judging others. And that is my point - I feel that you are a hypocrite. I am not saying that you are correct or incorrect in your political views but that your statements about Obama are in direct contradiction with your statements about wanting a civil discourse on the election.
My issue with you is not your politics (that is for another discussion) and I would take issue with your hypocrisy no matter which of the 2 candidates you slandered in such a thoughtless way.
Your email to me was strictly partisan and political and did not deal with the simple issue that I pointed out - that your two statement were profoundly inconsistent. I never once mentioned my politics or yours. You even directed me to watch some program an Fox news - thus trying to sway me politically I suppose. But I never mentioned politics - I simply pointed out that you were a hypocrite based on the presented information. And I stand by that.
Gene
=================
I would be very curious if all the people who have praised you for this posting where you very rightly cal for civility in public discourse would feel that way after reading yur hypocritical comparisons of Obama to Hitler.
Folks - what's your opinion? Let's let this be a forum to really discuss the need for civil discourse.
Jan - the ball is in your court.
========================
Jan - in the name of open and honest discussion I urge you not to delete my response again.
I feel that this discussion really gets to the heart of some of our problems as a nation so with your permission I will be posting this discussion on my page and getting people opinions.
And please remember - I am not questioning or agreeing or disagreeing your politics. I am simply pointing out that is contradictory and thus hypocritical to call for civil discourse out of one side of your mouth and then compare Obama to Hitler out of the other.
Thanks
Gene
My point in the other post, was a comparison of speaking styles, not of values. My concern is that people may be taken in by the charisma of the speaker and miss the message. Maybe dark magic is a dramatic term, but we need to examine the substance behind the rhetoric.
Hilter may have been a poor choice for comparison, especially in the interest of non-provocative language. There are countless other examples of compelling speakers who have stirred crowds, even nations, to follow them. Emotional speaking captures the listeners' interest and inspires people's enthusiasm. Revival meetings are in this category, too. Listeners can be enthralled and swept away by speeches. It is heady stuff.
Again, I did not compare political views or values, but simply speaking style. It's human nature to want to follow someone who inspires us. I only point out that we need to examine the facts, the candidate's record and evidence of his sincerity before casting a vote that will profoundly impact our nation's future.
I don't think I am a hypocrite. I am a patriot and a peaceful person. I have children and grandchildren who are going to have to live with the mistakes the leaders and voters in my generation have made. By researching carefully, I will vote for those whose policies will best serve their future.
I hope this clears things up. I have no desire to argue politics and that was the point of this post.
Peace
Jan
If you will notice I never once mentioned politics - I simply called you on your hypocrisy. I don't actually care what your politics are -they are irrelevant in this discussion. And I have said nothing to indicate what my politics are.
You never defined "dark magic". Is it an implication of some sort of evil? Or something else? In light of your Hitler comparison one can only wonder.
You say that Obamas speaking style is like Hilters - do you speak German and are familiar with his speeches? If not then it is fascinating that you made that specific choice - especially considering how you are so against provocative language and all.
It saddens me that you don't see the hypocrisy in your statements. We are all capable of hypocrisy - a true judge of character is having the self awareness to acknowledge it when it is brought to your attention.
The message from you is that it is OK to use such provocative language ONLY when it is used against someone you disagree with. You even went so far as to delete several posts from people who took issue with your comparing Obama to Hitler.
I am hopeful that most people in this country are far more self aware and decent and respectful so that we can get to a point where people will use their minds and words in thoughtful and constructive ways and not stoop to slanderous thoughtless and dangerous comments that add nothing to the debate.
I too am a patriot and am hopeful for the future of this country - no matter who are future elected leader is. What makes me fearful is not the prospect of an Obama or McCain presidency but the prospect of living in a nation of thoughtless mean spirited hypocrites.
I will no longer bother you with my feeling on this issue.
Sincerely
Gene