Toyota to launch electric car

Very nice. I have a 2005 Prius and love it. The technology keeps getting better and better.

This is exciting news, Sam. Thanks for bringing it to us.

I'd say it's time GM got off it's butt...........

Encouraging news. Thanks for the info, Sam.

Thanks all for commenting, much appreciated!

Thanks Sam.
I like your articles.
They are always informative.

"The tanks have a maximum of 70Mpa pressure and can hold 156 liters (almost 44 gallons) of hydrogen." How is the hydrogen measured? Is it 44 gallons of compressed gas, gas at normal temperature and pressure, etc. If it's compressed gas, this car gets terrible hydrogen millage.

Dear All with 1078 emails I have llittle or no time for any other comment than thanks for sharing

ten for you Sam. In the interest of full disclosure, I own Toyota stock, so I am always happy to find out good things they are doing in alternative energy.

My concern about electric vehicles is that the gasoline industry will look for ways to undercut them if they can. They delight in yo-yo pricing of gasoline that destroys budding alternatives. TheChevy Volt is supposed to cost 30,000. If gasoline goes under $2.50 a gallon, who would want one? On the plus side, I think that worldwide demand is probably going to keep gasoline up above where it used to be. But we need millions of plug in electrics to come on line- it needs to become the technology of choice, not just a "Green statement" made by a few idealists.

I think the auto industry should cooperate to develop a standardized battery pack that would fit in any electric car. When your batteries get low, you pull into a recharging station (retrofitted gas station) where your low battery pack gets replaced with one of their fully charged packs. The operation would be mechanized to be as quick as filling up with gasoline.

It would be a huge investment in infrastructure, but electricity is potentially a very clean and sustainable way to power vehicles, and this solves the problem of limited range and long recharge times.

sounds cool :)

I am more interested in the hydrogen vehicle. Don't forget that most electricity is still produced by burning fossil fuels. More importantly, current battery technology is anything but "green".

Solar and wind-generated electricity is sustainable long-term. Wind is already cheaper than coal and solar should be soon. We have all the sun and wind we need right here in the U.S., and, unlike nuclear, neither requires a Price-Anderson Act to dump disaster clean-up costs on the taxpayer.

Hydrogen should be seen as more of an energy storage technology than a fuel source. There's a lot of hydrogen around, but it's locked up in water. You could use clean wind-generated electricity to separate H2O into hydrogen and oxygen, burn the hydrogen or use it in a fuel cell to power your vehicle. But with an actual electric car, you get to make use of regenerative braking. That energy is all lost with a car that treats hydrogen as just another combustible.

Another in your fascinating series of articles, Sam. Do you think any of these companies will ever find a way to incorporate a solar panel into the vehicle roof, as some private owners have, so that it supplies at least a trickle charge whenever it's out in the sun?

Thanks Gerry. Solar Electrical Vehicles adds solar roofs to hybrid cars like the Toyota Prius, Highlander Hybrid and the Ford Escape Hybrid. The image below shows a Prius with a convex panel.



The solar modules are rated at 200-300 watts, and this power is used to charge a supplemental battery and the existing battery pack, giving a Prius an extended driving range of up to 20 miles per day in electric mode, thus improving fuel economy by up to 29%.

The SEV system doesn't require plugging in for charging. It comes with a 3kW supplemental battery pack and a charge controlling system, and costs $2000-$4000. It qualifies for Federal renewable energy tax credits of up to $2,000 or 30% if purchased with a residential solar electrical system, which lowers the net cost of the system and means it can pay for itself in a few years time.

The Mitsubishi i MiEV Electric Minivan (pictured left) features a solar roof. Pictured further down below is the Venturi Eclectic at an LA beach, also with a solar roof.

Steve Tiffany: "But with an actual electric car, you get to make use of regenerative braking. That energy is all lost with a car that treats hydrogen as just another combustible."

Thanks for you good comment, Steve. Just so that there's no confusion on this issue, most hydrogen car manufacturers (including Toyota) use fuel cells, which means their cars are essentially electric cars with added fuel cells. So, there's no reason why regenerative braking wouldn't be a feature of such cars, just like it is on virtually any other electric car.

WM: "I am more interested in the hydrogen vehicle. Don't forget that most electricity is still produced by burning fossil fuels. More importantly, current battery technology is anything but "green"."

Good point, WM. Similarly, most hydrogen is still produced from natural gas. We need to shift to safe and clean ways to produce energy, such as with wind, solar and geothermal facilities. As more wind turbines emerge, there will be abundant electricity at night, which could be used to recharge car batteries or to produce hydrogen from water by means of electrolysis.

Steve Tiffany: "I think the auto industry should cooperate to develop a standardized battery pack that would fit in any electric car. When your batteries get low, you pull into a recharging station (retrofitted gas station) where your low battery pack gets replaced with one of their fully charged packs."

That business model is followed by BetterPlace.com and it appears to be introduced in Israel and in Denmark. I discussed this in my article Cheap Electric Cars, but I haven't got the latest figures on how successful it is.

As I described in my article Electric Vehicles for hire in Paris, France follows another model.

I believe that there is room for a number of different approaches. I suggest that government introduces feebates to discourage polluting cars and to encourage clean cars. Feebates could similarly be used to discourage fossil fuel and encourage clean and safe ways to produce energy.

I think it's great that companies like Toyota are focusing more and more on hybrids, EVs, etc. I'd like to see more focus on using carbon fiber and other light-weight materials to get the curb weights down.

We can build cars that weigh no more than the passengers they carry, yet we don't. If four-fifths of the energy is being used just to move the car rather than the passengers, then significantly reducing the weight of the car would surely be a good idea.

Reducing the weight of the passengers might be a good idea, too, but I don't really think that's up to Toyota and the other car-makers. :)

Chris: "..we need millions of plug in electrics to come on line- it needs to become the technology of choice, not just a "Green statement" made by a few idealists."

I fully agree, Chris, and I believe that a framework of feebates is the best way to go to facilitate the shift we need.

Good point, Will. People increasingly do look at the cost of driving cars, rather than just at the purchase price. Another point is that electric cars have far less moving parts, which means those parts require less maintenance. Other things I like about electric cars is that there's less noise, less heat, less fumes, less vibration, and of course, less pollution.

Bill B.: "..this car gets terrible hydrogen millage."

I'm not sure what you mean, Bill, but let me cover a few points. Remember, Bill, with an atomic mass of 1.00794 amu, hydrogen is the lightest element. So, while the energy density per unit volume of hydrogen is lower than, say, a gallon of gasoline or natural gas, the weight of a gallon of hydrogen is also lower.

There are basically three ways to carry stored hydrogen in a car, i.e. as a liquid, as compressed gas or bonded to metal (hydrides). Palladium can absorb 900x its own volume of hydrogen at room temperatures, forming palladium hydride, and this would therefore be an ideal carrier to store hydrogen in fuel cell cars, if palladium wasn't so scarce.

Most car manufacturers choose to compress hydrogen as a gas in tanks. Toyota's initial FCHV carried compressed hydrogen in a 148 liter tank at 35 MPa pressure, which gave the car a range of 330 kilometers. In the new FCHV-adv, Toyota has doubled the pressure to 70 MPa, while also using a slightly larger tank (156 liter) and improving fuel cell efficiency, thus increasing the range to 830 kilometers (516 miles). The range could be further extended by further increasing the pressure or the volume of the tanks. I'll add a picture below, courtesy of TG Daily, showing the tanks placed under the rear seats, which can hold almost 44 gallons of hydrogen, giving the FCHV-adv a range of 516 miles.


As to the cost of producing hydrogen, I expect that - as said above - as more wind turbines emerge, there will be abundant electricity at night, which could be used to recharge car batteries or to produce hydrogen from water by means of electrolysis. As I wrote in my article Breakthroughs open door to Hydrogen Economy, the cost of electrolyzers and fuel cells can be expected to come down in future, due to progress in technology and economies of scale of mass production. Also note that a car like the FCHV-adv is also an electric car, with a battery that can be recharged frequently (at home or while at work), so there's no need for hydrogen refilling stations to have the same density and coverage as gasoline stations.

156 liter) and improving fuel cell efficiency, thus increasing the range to 830 kilometers (516 miles).

Can that be refilled say if some one is traveling from to Chicago to L.A.?

"Also note that a car like the FCHV-adv is also an electric car, with a battery that can be recharged frequently (at home or while at work), so there's no need for hydrogen refilling stations to have the same density and coverage as gasoline stations. "

So if I want to travel from Murray, Ky to Detriot..where can I recharge my car on the way just in case I run out of juice?

And don't give me.....

"As to the cost of producing hydrogen, I expect that - as said above - as more wind turbines emerge, there will be abundant electricity at night, which could be used to recharge car batteries or to produce hydrogen from water by means of electrolysis."

Thanks for the information. I cannot wait to see what happens in the future.

"Thanks Gerry. Solar Electrical Vehicles adds solar roofs to hybrid cars like the Toyota Prius, Highlander Hybrid and the Ford Escape Hybrid. The image below shows a Prius with a convex panel"

How much do those solar panels cost? I clicked on your link and I didn't see anything about the cost.

I'm all for all of this new energy technology. Really, considering the recent energy crisis, we need it. However I need to know whether it would be more cost efficient for me to drive a 1969 Ford Pickup with a 390 and pay $3.60 per gallon or drive an electric hybrid or electric vehicle with solar panels( which could cost more that buying a house) that converts electric power to hydrogen at night sometimes if that technology is ever developed.

I'm all for it, but you must tell me how this will be cost effective. Untill then, I'll keep chunking $3.60 per gallon into my 1969 pickup with a 390.

Timothy: "How much do those solar panels cost?"

Solar roofs such as by SEV allow a Toyota Prius to operate up to 20 miles per day in electric mode. The SEV system also adds an extra 3kW battery pack and a charge controlling system. Last time I checked the site, all this costs $2000-$4000. It qualifies for Federal renewable energy tax credits of up to $2,000 or 30% if purchased with a residential solar electrical system, which lowers the net cost of the system and means it can pay for itself in a few years time. Note however that this doesn't make your Toyota Prius a plug-in, since the SEV system doesn't require plugging in for charging. A123 offers a 5 kWh battery pack that is meant to be recharged from a power point and that will give you 30-40 miles range, but this will set you back some $10,000.

In many cases, especially when the car is parked outside during the day, a solar roof will suffice. I've added an image below showing that most people drive only 25 miles or less per day.

Timothy: "Can that be refilled say if some one is traveling from to Chicago to L.A.?"

The Toyota hydrogen car isn't available in the US as yet, but the Honda Clarity hydrogen car has been made available to a limited number of people in Southern California, in the Torrance, Santa Monica and Irvine areas. Honda wants to ensure that Clarity drivers will be able to take their vehicles in for service at participating dealers and have convenient access to refueling stations. Honda expects to roll out more fuel cell vehicles as more hydrogen refueling options become available, such as commercial hydrogen refilling stations and Honda's own Energy Stations.

I agree that car buyers first want to see hydrogen refilling stations, while gasoline stations are hesitant to add hydrogen facilities as long as there aren't many customers. In my view, feebates are most effective in breaking through this chicken-and-egg cycle, by imposing fees on gasoline cars that would fund local rebates on clean cars, and by imposing fees on fossil fuel to fund local rebates on clean and safe energy.

I canot wait to buy a hybrid car. The government and insurance companies s/b involved in tax and insurance credits to encourage their purchase.

Thanks for the detailed answer, Sam. I'm excited that the technology has come that far and sounds like it could soon be a standard roof option for hybrid or electric vehicles.

Sam, & others, do you know of anyone producing a WIND mill-type device for a vehicle? Unlike solar panels on cars, while at rest virtually no wind energy would be generated. However, while driving, especially at highway speeds, LOTS of energy would be generated. Imagine how much at 55+ MPH for an extended period of time! I can envision a foot tall series of blades perpendicular to the front of the car, stretching across the whole front of the roof. The friction and drag and decreased MPG created by such a roof mounting (unless somehow very aerodynamically designed) should be more than offset by the electricity generated while driving.

"A new Prius should appear in 2009 and a plug-in version, which will use lithium-ion batteries, is due to arrive a year later."

I'm confused. The current Prius on sale is the 2008. Toyota has announced that the (plug in?) 2010 will be shown at the 1/09 Detroit Auto Show, and may go on sale at the end of 2009. So will there be a 2009 Prius model, and when is it expected to go on sale in the US? We're probably going to buy a Prius, and would wait a few more months for a 2009 model if we knew there was one due out soon, rather than get a 2008 model 'now' (i.e., when one with the option package we like becomes available in our area).

barry: "..will there be a 2009 Prius model..?"

A new version of the Prius, which promises to be lighter and more fuel-efficient than the current generation, should also appear in 2009. [source: Business Week, July 2, 2008]

Note that the 2009 Prius will not be a plug-in. Rechargeable Priuses with extra nickel-metal batteries are now being tested in California and Japan, with a range of about 7 miles on battery power alone. When sold to customers, however, Toyota's rechargeable Prius will use lithium-ion batteries and Toyota estimates the new plug-ins will be able to travel 10 miles (16 kilometers) on a charge. Toyota is targeting the first commercial sales of these plug-ins for late 2010. [source: Bloomberg, 28 August 2008]

barry: "anyone producing a WIND mill-type device for a vehicle?"

I guess that the drag would be such that there would be little or no economic sense in driving around with a wind-mill on the roof. However, the Mitsubishi i MiEV SPORT (pictured below) does use the airflow passing through the front grille to complement regenerative braking.


The Venturi Eclectic does actually feature an optional wind turbine on its roof, to generate electricity in addition to what the solar roof produces. I guess it's not meant to be used during driving, but may come in handy in case you run out of juice during the night and your car comes to rest at a windy spot.

Thanks, Sam - this is great info. And yet again, Toyota is leading the industry.

Sam...This all sounds great, however it should be more affordable and it also looks like it will be a few years before it can all take place...if it does at all. And if and when it does, look for the oil companies to fight it tooth and nail..that is unless they figure out a way to get a piece of the pie.

Sounds like they are using the design from either the Volvo or Saab, which was sut down because Ford, GM, and Chrysler pushed for Bans on that battery years ago. The US still has a ban on those batteries for cars, so they will not be able to sell them here unless they can get the ban lifted.

Dan: "Sounds like they are using the design from either the Volvo or Saab, which was sut down because Ford, GM, and Chrysler pushed for Bans on that battery years ago. The US still has a ban on those batteries for cars, so they will not be able to sell them here unless they can get the ban lifted."

Good point, Dan, I've long advocated strong anti-trust and cartel policy to prevent Big Oil from using control over critical patents with the intent of sabotaging clean cars.

Toyota still has big plans for NiMH batteries, with a $290 million plant scheduled to make 100,000 NiMH batteries a year in early 2010 and twice that number later. Nonetheless, I do believe that Toyota will eventually switch entirely to Lithium-ion batteries, but it just needs all the capacity it can build in the light of expected demand.

Timothy: "it should be more affordable and it also looks like it will be a few years ...oil companies to fight it tooth and nail.."

Indeed, that's why I advocate a framework of feebates - fees could be imposed on polluting cars, with the proceeds funding local rebates on clean cars - fees could similarly be imposed on fossil fuel, with proceeds funding local rebates on clean and safe ways to produce energy.

Sam, it was not big Oil, it was the Big Three, and solely to continue to prove their flavor of the day. At that time there was a number of Electric cars coming out, and the Big Three here did not want it to work, because there was more money in internal Combustion engines, so they fought against the electric car. This is when GM made the Lumina which ran on 24 lead/zink batteries (like you use now in your cars) and had 8 headlights. The whole of the effort was to prove that an electric car would not work by designing one that was absurd.

Fascinating article and subject. Why are Japanese companies at the leading edge in this area?

I think Dan R. answered me question. Remember when the U.S. was at the leading edge of everything?

Dan, you're right about the Detroit Big Three. Car manufacturers have showcased a few models to make it look as if they were working on something, giving politicians photo-opportunities to parade in front of them, all to make it look as if things were in good hands, while behind the scenes the Big Three have worked hand in glove with Big Oil to make deals with politicians to sabotage cleaner cars. The role of Big Oil in this shouldn't be underestimated. The Big Three are effectively broke and the real muscle is Big Oil. Chevron controls patent rights to NiMH batteries, so Toyota's strategy is partly dictated by Chevron, which obviously wants to sell gas. As I said, we need strong and visionary policy to clean up this mess and we definitely don't need a president who thinks he can fool people into believing that the magic wand to solve our problems is to drill, drill and drill.

Sam, big oil has their own group, trying to get out of production of fuel and push for alternitive energy. THe Big three want to internal combustion engine because there is more maintenance work needed on them thus more money to be made. Oil companies have not stopped one attempt to develop alternitive power, but the big three have at every turn, from Adam's Hybred, up to today, they keep trying to hinder the development of alternitive powered vehicles.
The oil companies are dumping money into alternitive energy programs, and the big three are doing what they can to stop it.
Oil companies make more money off from chemical sales then they do from fuel sales. Fuel sales are risky and often cost more then they make. Chemical sales for medicines, plastics, ruber, and other things are far more effective to work than the fuel business.
Energy Advocates, which is made up of Oil Companies, work with the Government, universities, and industry to develop alternitive fuels and power, to get away from fuel.

Great article, Sam. Extremely informative.

Dan: "Oil companies have not stopped one attempt to develop alternitive power"

Well, here's one, Dan, I Googled for "NiMH, Toyota, Chevron" and among the top ten search results, I saw only discussions on how Chevron has been stopping Toyota from introducing plugins in the US.

I like to think that things have changed, Dan, but I still see Big Oil funding spin doctors, to fool people into thinking that clean and safe ways to produce energy should be taxed, but that oil should receive taxpayers money.

I just did too. Chevron sold their stock and control in the batteries back to GM so that they could work on their electric cars. GM inturn held the paten and has been blaming Chevron for blocking the use of them, which chevron no longer has.
Looks like Toyota might be getting the Batteries from China though.
Thanks GM.

48 hours after my 1st post above ["..will there be a 2009 Prius model..?"], i see light at the end of the tunnel:

the 2009 Prius is now available in canada!

1st read tuesday's press release:
http://newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/September2008/02/c8875.html

then go here:
http://www.toyota.ca/cgi-bin/WebObjects/WWW.woa/40/wo/Home.Vehicles.Prius-343c6b- zbSjdBplI2FrK6XM/3.7?fmg%2fprius%2fintro%2ehtml

at that canada site i find no mention of the differences between the 2008 & 09--one would need to have the 08 specs in hand and read line-by-line to see what differences there may be. the number of model options has been reduced from 5 or 6 to 3. yet the 09 canada version's
Fuel Consumption Rating*
City / Highway
L /100 km (mpg)
is 4.0 (71) / 4.2 (67)
* These estimates are based on the Government of Canada's approved criteria and testing methods.
so if the US milage ratings will also be 71/67 we'll have to see. that's a nice jump over the 08 ratings in the 40's. and a nice jump over my recent week's rental experience in AZ of 42-67 mpg in an 08 prius.

when i go to toyota.com and click on prius, it says 2009, but everything shown is the same as 2008! so that still leaves me scratching my ahead about the real 2009 prius.

sam, thanks for your 2 quick replies tuesday. the Venturi wind mill is not what i envisioned! i was thinking more along the lines of this photo
http://www.swiftwindturbine.com/images/pictures/Palestra_full.jpg
but on a much smaller scale, with the multiple blades under a single protective hood. with 55-75 mph winds rushing past several mills it should generate enuf electricity to offset the drag i should think. however, with the air intake slots near the front grille as in the Mitsubishi i MiEV you pictured, drag would be less. i guess my idea is more like a jet's turbine supplying power.

Yes, Barry, there are lots of ideas how wind turbines could be used in combination with cars. Obviously, as more wind turbines are installed, the surplus of electricity that they produce at night grows, and this could be used to recharge plugins. Here's an idea how to build wind turbines over highways to exploit the wind stream created by cars passing underneath.


On the above picture, note the barrier on the right hand side. That barrier could also incorporate Darius turbines, as pictured below.


I advocate fees on fossil fuel to fund local rebates on facilities that produce clean and safe energy. Market mechanisms can further sort out what works best where.

Barry: "the 2009 Prius is now available in Canada!"

Thanks for that information, Barry. Before everyone drives off to Canada to buy one, note that I've been trying to get more details on this for a while, specifically on what differences there are between the 2008 and 2009 models, and I'll post it here as soon as I know more.

Dan: "Chevron sold their stock and control in the batteries back to GM so that they could work on their electric cars. GM inturn held the paten and has been blaming Chevron for blocking the use of them, which chevron no longer has."

From what I read at the Ovonic website, Cobasys holds the NiMH rights and it is a 50/50 joint venture between Ovonic and Chevron.

Dan: "Looks like Toyota might be getting the Batteries from China though. Thanks GM."

As I read the license terms, Unitech can make, use and sell NiMH batteries in China, but propulsion applications are specifically excluded, preventing the production of batteries for electric cars [source]. So, it looks like Chevron is still sabotaging electric cars, but - as said - I like to think that things have changed, Dan, so perhaps you can clarify what's going on.

I don't know actually. I am just going by what I read. It said Chevron sold their stock, not half of them all of them. Chevron, according to what I read said that they dumped them.

I know I am having some issues getting my system working too. This has nothing to do with the oil or anything like that. It is just running into road blocks from the state.

Toyota actually had an electric car for sale, the RAV4-EV, it was sold from 1997 to 2003 (pictured below). It has a top speed of 78 mph and a range of up to 120 miles. The 95 amp-hour EV-95 NiMH battery pack has a capacity of 27 kWh and charges inductively. Some RAVs have achieved over 150,000 miles on the original battery pack.


Chevron grabbed control over the patent rights for NiMH batteries (including the EV-95 produced by Panasonic). Chevron then sued Toyota and Panasonic and forced them to pay a $30,000,000 settlement, while the production line for large NiMH batteries was closed down and dismantled. The Wikipedia page says that only smaller NiMH batteries, incapable of powering an electric vehicle or plugging in, are currently allowed by Chevron.

As said, Dan, I like to think that things have changed, but some say that we may have to wait until 2014 when the NiMH patent runs out, before we'll see Toyota sell a Prius plugin in the US. Hymotion, the main company converting a Prius to plugin by adding Lithium-ion batteries, was acquired in 2007 by A123, which is now negotiating to become the battery supplier for the GM Volt.

Various sites and blogs, such as this one, confirm that the new (2009) Prius, to be unveiled at the Detroit Auto Show in January 2009, will feature a solar panel, but it will power the electric vehicle’s air conditioning system, to reduce strain on the battery pack, rather than that it will recharge the battery pack.

According to the blog at Automobile Mag, Toyota's all-electric car will - at least initially - be sold only in Japan, while the Plugin Prius, as it stands, will retain the nickel-metal hydride batteries of the current generation. The picture below of the Plugin Prius is courtesy of Automobile Mag.

Above picture is of the Prius 2009, courtesy of Drive.com.au, which is an Australian site, so perhaps this is a version shipped to Australia. The site says that the model is rumored to feature a solar roof, although the picture doesn't appear to confirm this. Ah, well, perhaps it will be an optional extra. The webpage does say that the 2010 Prius will be built at Toyota’s new Mississippi plant in the United States.

Hi Sam ~ Great Article . . .

This is FEATURED in Artistic Minds®

Blessings ~
Rene

An interesting and progressive concept.

Thanks Sam. Great stuff, especially with all of the extra information in your answers to questions. I'll respond to a few of the questions from others, etc.

Regarding hydrogen, from what I have read, its current cost equates to about $1/per gallon of gas if one is interested in the mpg-equivalent of fuel cell cars. That is for hydrogen on the open market which mostly comes from fossil fuels, as has been discussed above. However, I believe that the process for extracting hydrogen from fossil fuels requires much less energy than the process of refining oil to gasoline, and electric cars are typically very efficient compared to gas-driven cars. As you know, fuel cell cars are mostly a type of electric car that generates its own electricity from hydrogen (and oxygen). So, hydrogen is overall a better, cleaner, greener energy source than gasoline for driving cars, as far as I can tell. That doesn't mean it can't be made even more advantageous.

Another point about the hydrogen economy that I believe you have addressed elsewhere is energy distribution. It is not feasible to have oil refineries for each home, or town, or to transport the oil to such refineries. However, it is quite conceivable to have electrolysis-based hydrogen generators in homes or in several locations around a town. Then, as long as water is available, hydrogen can be made on the spot. Of course water isn't available everywhere, but the places without water usually have sunlight for solar panels or wind for wind power for charging electric cars, etc.

If, as in the article you wrote that covered the inexpensive MIT electrolysis catalysts, the fuel cell is placed in the home, there is a chance of recycling the water that the fuel cells generate and using it again for electrolysis. This may be important since water vapor is a green house gas. However, it may not be important if the whole energy infrastructure is made much greener than it is now (we should be so lucky).

Like you, I'm somewhat wary and skeptical of the devotion of oil companies to alternative energy. If I recall correctly, BP got into trouble in the UK for claiming it was pushing alternative energy, but never making any real progress or implementing promised technology. I hope my memory is right on that matter.

Regarding the higher value-added nature, relative to gasoline, of products supplied to the chemical industry by oil companies, this is true. However, the equations for describing the relavant economics are very complex. Many of the chemicals supplied to the chemical industry as raw materials are byproducts of refining oil to gas (they come out at different points in the big distillation towers, for example). How much this is subsidized by riding on the back of a huge gasoline market is unclear to me, but I suspect that the level of internal subsidies by other oil company operations (gasoline production) is high when it comes to many chemical raw materials.

Part of the confusion over car models is that, as most people realize, manufacturers release a given "model year" in the previous calendar year. This doesn't normally make a difference- it is business as usual, but it becomes very confusing when trying to figure out if some of the new advances will be available in, say 3rd quarter 2009, but labeled as 2010 models, or if the new features will really come out in calendar year 2010. This keeps us all a bit off balance, which I'm sure is part of some clever marketing strategy.

Thanks again!

Thanks for featuring this article, René, and thanks all for the comments.

James B.: "This may be important since water vapor is a green house gas. However, it may not be important if the whole energy infrastructure is made much greener than it is now."

Note that gasoline cars also emit water vapors. In fact, vehicles using gasoline-powered internal combustion engines emit approximately the same amount of water per mile as hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. [source]

Moreover, such water vapors aren't as significant as greenhouse gases compared to carbon dioxide, which can remain in the atmosphere for more than a century. In many cases, such water vapors won't reach higher levels of the atmosphere and they will return to the soil in the form of precipitation in less than a few hours.

Talking about water, how much water would we need if we converted the current U.S. light-duty fleet (some 230 million vehicles) to fuel cell vehicles? According to this site, we would need about 310 billion gallons of water per year. Domestic water use is about 4.8 trillion gallons per year, and 70 trillion gallons a year are used to cool power plants. So, it isn't much and, as you noted, James, the switch to hydrogen and solar power could well make energy production more distributed, in that many households could produce all the energy they need from solar panels on their property.

Interestingly, the above site mentions that the refinery industry uses about 300 billion gallons of water a year to produce gasoline. Another site quotes an NREL estimate of 350 billion gallons of water that is used to refine the amount of gasoline American drivers consume annually and the NREL estimate does not even include water resources used for exploration and oil recovery.

In conclusion, switching to hydrogen doesn't create a problem regarding water used or emitted. That's just another myth spread by those who oppose such a switch, as they have vested interests in fossil fuel and associated infrastructure.

How far will a car can drive, if the energy that powers the car was produced on 100m x 100m (2.5 acres) of land?



I found the above image at the NanoSolar blog.

Note that the average driver clocks up some 25 miles a day, i.e. 9,136 miles a year. If you planted wheat on the 10,000 square meters (2.5 acres) of land, in order to produce bioethanol, that would let you to drive a bit further than the average driver, i.e. 13,980 miles (or 22,500 km). But just look at how much you could drive if you covered your 2.5 acres with PV panels!

That is very interesting. I wonder what the safety rating will be when it is released. There is some kind of little truck that is selling great on the used car lots around here. I am not sure what it is but the law has been ticketing them because it is not made for on the road driving. It does not have the safety standards.

Wanted to stop by and say hello... Havent really had a chance to say hi to anyone, so I figured I would stop by and send you some love and some tens... :o)

Hi Felicia, thanks for your nice comment. Cheers! Sam Carana

Connie: "..the law has been ticketing them because it is not made for on the road driving."

There are plenty of electric cars that are generally referred to as Neighborhood Electric Vehicles (NEVs), I've written more about them in my article Cheap Electric Cars. As carbon fiber becomes more common, such NEVs will also become increasingly safe. Here's a site that produces carbon fiber car parts, claiming their products are three times stronger and five times stiffer than steel, last longer than any metal because it is resistant to fatigue or corrosion and weigh one third of comparable steel products.

Sam,

Very nice article and very informative! Were you aware that the INEL is converting hybrids to be plug in hybrids? The cost of the conversion is to be from $5,000 to $10,000. They intend to have over a hundred of them on the road for their operation this year.

This is a test type of thing and is probably too costly for most people to do but this is one of the studies that will assist in development of batteries for electric vehicles. The converted hybrids will have lithium Ion batteries. I believe it is five of these vehicles that will go into service Wednesday.

The move to electric and alternative energy vehicles is slow perhaps, but it is taking place! This is good to see.

Sam,

I've read through the comments and haven't seen anyone ask this question. We would like to buy a plug-in hybrid and also add solar collectors to our property, hopefully to power the plug-in.

Is this a practical plan?

Good point, James, we don't need to wait for a plugin, there are several companies offering conversions. Hymotion will charge some $10,000, but there are indeed less expensive alternatives. They add an additional battery pack in the boot of your car. As battery cost comes down with economies of scale, I expect a factory-built plugin Prius to cost only marginally more than a non-plugin model.

Ann: "We would like to buy a plug-in hybrid and also add solar collectors to our property, hopefully to power the plug-in. Is this a practical plan?"

Sounds like a great plan, Ann, but do some calculations first. If you have enough space, you can easily add enough solar panels to power both house and car. Note that you may end up recharging the car from the grid after all, using cheaper offpeak electricity, while feeding surplus electricity into the grid during the day, as is done at the property pictured below that has 2,880 square foot of PV panels with a theoretical output of 30.5kW. It powers four electric cars and the home. Before installing this system, they had a monthly electric bill of almost $1000.

Thank you, Sam! We have a 2-acre lot, so there's plenty of space.

The photo you've provided is from California. How would such a large panel be maintained in New England? For instance, I'm guessing it would have to sit on the ground and be angled for sun collection and snow-shedding.

Also, if you have any ideas as to where to find prices, I'd appreciate them.

That's plenty of space, Ann. But do compare the various systems, including those that mount the panels on solar trackers that tilt toward the sun as the sun moves across the sky. This can increase energy capture compared to fixed systems, which is always nice, of course, but it's more expensive, so study the various alternatives before making a decision.

Companies like Citizenre will offer to install solar systems at your place without upfront cost, but I suggest that you approach a number of suppliers, in order to follow their calculations and compare their prices. Ask them about the various alternatives applicable to your situation.

There are a number of scenarios possible. If your car is parked at your place of work during the day, then it's hard to recharge the car directly from your solar system at home. To do so would require an extra battery, which then recharges the car in the evening or at night. Alternatively, it may be more economic to recharge the car from the grid, using cheap off-peak electricity, while feeding surplus electricity from your solar panel into the grid. Or, you may convince your place of work to put solar panels on top of your car parking facility, so you can recharge your car there.

Also check sites like dsireusa.org for net-metering and incentives available to you, and check with your utility for their interconnect policies.

Toyota has been testing the Plugin Prius at several places in the world since September 2007, including in California. French utility Electricite de France (EDF) and Toyota have now extended their trials beyond France to other countries in Europe. EDF owns utility companies in Germany, Italy and the UK. As reported by the BBC, EDF and Toyota have begun road-testing the Prius Plug-in in London. The report contains videos of the tests and a picture is added below.

By the way, hybrids aren't new. The picture below (courtesy of Frank Didik) shows a 1903 Krieger, which is a front wheel drive electric-gasoline hybrid car with power steering. A gasoline engine supplements the battery pack. Between 1890 and 1910, there were many such hybrid electric cars and four wheel drive electric cars.



The GM EV-1 electric car was initially charged with an inductive charging paddle, which was inserted into a receptacle on the vehicle. GM and Toyota even agreed on a standard inductive charging interface, called Magne Charge, but abandoned its support in 2002 when the California Air Resources Board settled on a conductive charging interface for electric vehicles in California [source: Wikipedia]. Wireless microwave-based battery-recharging also features in the Sport version of the Mitsubishi i MiEV minivan.

Anyway, I see a great future for plugin vehicles. Pacific Gas and Electric Company has off-peak rates (in summer, midnight to 7.00 am) as low as $0.05/kwh, while peak rates are as high as $0.28/kwh. To be applicable for this "E-9 rate" you'll have to get a time-of-use meter installed at your premises.

Also, there's plenty of synergy between solar power and plug-in cars. In a survey of RAV4-owners, 48% responded that solar energy powered their car. There's an opportunity for business to provide extra service to customers and staff that have electric vehicles, by installing solar panels on the roofs of business premises and car covers, thus allowing electric vehicles to recharge during the day. Such recharging from solar panels can take place without putting stress on the grid. Once they return home, owners of electric vehicles could then sell surplus electricity to the grid, to help the grid cope with the evening peak, while recharging again at night.

thanks for posting this!
I wonder how much they'll sell it for.

At last Thursday's meeting of the Canberra Electric Vehicles group, Sasha showed his electric Toyota to assembled members. On the compilation photo below, Sasha shows the batteries on the side and the motor in front.

Thanks for adding that, Bernardus, it shows well how little space the motor takes up. Cheers! Sam Carana

Good point, Colin, there's much scope for making vehicles lighter. I love to find out more about the 12 volt option.

Regenerative breaking alone can substantially improve fuel efficiency. The Prius already has the best 2008 fuel efficiency, according to Department of Energy, i.e. first place for city and also first place for highway (shared with Honda Civic hybrid).

I read about a Prius owner who made 75 trips from July 4th through August 16th, 2006, covering a total of 1,456 miles on a single tank (almost 13 gallons). That translates into a fuel efficiency of 115.5 mpg. Imagine how far you can drive on a single tank with a plug-in Prius.

Below is a picture of the Toyota FT-EV, which will be displayed at the North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) from tomorrow. The FT-EV targets urban users, will seat four and drive up to 50 miles on a single charge.



For more info, photos and videos, go to:
http://pressroom.toyota.com/pr/tms/toyota/maintain-pace-broaden-scope.aspx

why compress hydrogen to run a hydrogen fuel cell to run an electric engine to drive a car? why not compress regular air in a Quantum Technologies carbon fiber air pressure tank, up to say 10,000 psi or even as high as 50,000 psi perhaps, or use several carbon fiber tanks of this sort, providing high pressure air to run an air motor? The new redesigned rotary Wankel air motor by Angelo DiPietro, formerly of Mercedes-Benz Europe, can replace a V8 engine with a small rotary Wankel carbon fiber motor smaller than a breadbox and with very low parts count, thus very minimal maintenance and repair needs and costs. The system is very simple; air motors are used in mechanics' shops due to their extremely high torque and good efficiency; the new redesigned rotary Wankel air motor is very quiet in operation, as it is not a back-and-forth piston engine, but a rotary motion, so the torque is even more powerful (torque to weight ratio??) than the standard noisy piston air motors used in torque wrenches etc. Okay, maybe this sounds a bit nuts but think about it, the job is to turn the wheels, not to create electricity, for moving a surface road vehicle. (Electricity would have to be provided by drawing some energy off the rotary Wankel engine to run a small electric generator and charge a battery as needed for lights etc.) Air itself is not explosive. If Hydrogen is going to be used, why dont the auto manufacturers simply generate hydrogen as needed, by using superefficient electrolysis chambers such as the Stan Meyer device or the Joe Cell, etc. This way, the hydrogen would not need to be compressed into a small space and pose explosion risk, the hydrogen can be generated as needed on demand from a small amount of solar/wind electricity; this way there is never enough hydrogen in one place to pose a risk of explosions greater than something like a small firecracker (this type of backflash has to be carefully engineered against of course). But the air motor is better and simpler I think. Angelo DiPietro has a video clip on YouTube.com which is worth seeing, in which he demonstrates his new redesigned rotary Wankel air motor. He was originally assigned to redesign the rotary Wankel by Mercedes Benz, but later continued his work in Australia and has a factory there. Carbon fiber pressure tanks are great because if they rupture they do not explode in pieces, but simply release the air pressure; they are so light that the previous problems of weight with very strong steel pressure tanks is no longer a problem. Dr. Amory Lovins at RMI.org has a new process for forming and manufacturing carbon fiber parts for cars, this is a super energy efficient process, and will probably be adopted by large manufacturers. Toray Industries in Japan is producing replacement parts for all our good-old rusted cars, using carbon fiber composites. Companies like ZOLT may also do this soon hopefully. (I own some ZOLT but hey.)

if you build a 2 acre solar photovoltaic panel you could actually shelter a lot of people underneath it and greenhouses to grow the food needed, make mini climates where water can be conserved etc. sure you could angle it a bit to let the water and snow fall off, but why not angle it inward and collect all that water?? dont you people need water out there like we do in maine??? <:^)

Toyota has just announced that it is developing a plug-in hybrid vehicle, based on the 3rd-generation "Prius" and equipped with a lithium-ion battery. They will be introduced from the end of this year - Toyota will initially lease hundreds of them to fleet customers.

Electric cars are destined to fail as the power still has to come from a coal power station. Hydrogen Cars are going to be the way forward, i wonder if you'll still be able to get car leasing deals on hydrogen cars when they are more readily available in the uk.

I hate to be sceptical about these things, but I think electric cells are a dead-end as far as technology goes. Either hydrogen fuel cells powering an electrical engine will be the future, or we'll start to accept that carbon dioxide isn't - despite all the hype - actually doing any damage to the ecosystem and we'll shrug and go back to petrol

I'm a big supporter of hydrogen, Noel and quarfle, as you can read in:
Who (almost) killed the Hydrogen Car?

I don't think it's a choice between either hydrogen on the one hand or battery electric vehicles on the other hand. The two can go hand in hand in many ways. I welcome the work by Toyota on cleaner cars, i.e. the Prius, hydrogen cars and all-electric cars, I just hope that Toyota gives clean cars even more priority.