I would think that if we have a conscience, guilt is a natural emotion, but it can also be thrust upon us! Moms are good at that.... Anger is a natural emotion that we need to learn to control. And embarassment, well, we just need to laugh at ourselves sometimes before someone else does!
I often wonder if there is a fine line between anger and our own natural defense mechanisms? I love to laugh at myself. Too bad most of the time there is no one around to see what goofy thing I have done. Ellen B
OK, Ellen, if that's what Susan means, I think Phil's idea for the drawing was that it is a mother and child except that those messages go on through life so he drew them older.
Plus the grouwnup boy at the child's school desk is kind of amusing.
The question as I see it about conscience is whether that is also learned or natural. I know some is learned because each society has different values.
I say, only half in jest, that religions and mothers invented guilt.
I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion about anger in this thread. I don't think anger is natural. I believe it is a human emotion that protects us from physchological fears.
I love your answer about embarrassment. Possibly religion had nothing to do with embarassment and this one falls squarely on the mothers' shoulders. :)
Guilt and embarrassment (sp) are learned but I am not so sure about anger. It is true that a great part of anger is from the fear component. It is also true that anger requires some object towards which it is directed. It is also true that the object of the anger can be some figment of the imagination or a category. Until one can conceptualize one has no objects. Until one learns to fear some object on cannot have anger. So there is a learning component to anger. But that learning is so early in life that I would say that it is on the border between learned and innate.
Grief is also on that border since it requires learning as well.
This is one of the best Thought Bytes, I think. I'd agree with those who've suggested that some measure of anger is innate, or inevitable. The emotion we call 'love'....now I'm thinking. I'd say it's ready and raring to be projected onto the source of warmth, security and food.
Larry, you make an interesting point about the gray area between learned and innate. I don't know enough physiology or psychology to add more than I have already said.
An important point here is that we don't necessarily need to be saddled with all the emotions we think we have no control over. If we learned something we can unlearn it. By working at it, I dropped almost all anger from my life.
I do believe that grief comes with the territory of being alive and forming relationships with others. Not sure I understand what the learning component would be here.
Considering the source or nature of love is interesting, Mike and an example of taking a Byte and massaging it in your mind.
As I mentioned above, I wouldn't get hung up on the specifics and, as you did, I'd examine other emotions within me. Quite possibly they all have learned and natural components to them.
The next question is do I want to modify the learned portions or are they working for me in a positive way?
I'm going to have to buy in with Larry on this one. I've seen babies go red faced with anger because their needs went untended. Mybe it was because I was pinching their little butts.
Whether innate or learned, they are powerful if harnessed correctly. The ability to manipulate the body to perform through control of these emotions is key. I guess we are right back where we often begin- conscious thought and action versus the unconscious.
Okay, you had more here than I initially suspected. *tips hat
And ... did you ever think what an anger adult looks like to a two-year old?
There used to be a parent therapy technique where they videotaped the parents interacting with the children from the child's eye level and then replayed it for the parents. Pretty powerful stuff.
Thanks for the actual add John...didn't realize you did this every week, but do remember the passing of your artist and friend...sad to know these are infinite.
Now to explain anger..."a strong feeling of displeasure and belligerence aroused by a wrong" Since a baby can get frustrated...but they don't have the mental power it takes to actually get angry, because they can't understand that they've been wronged. The list on each side could be much longer as well. It is interesting to see the comments grow on this. Kudos John
I have two stepsons who allow you to feel their anger by their totally ignoring any questions or requests you make of them because they feel to answer you or respond gives you power over them. I used to get angry because they knew which buttons to push but now I ignore their failure to respond and just keep going making a choice for them and continuing the conversation and they interrupt because they do have a choice or direction they want to choose and speaking up does make a difference to me. We try to coexist without too much friction because being friendly is just not in the cards for us - they want me to "go away" and then their parents will "get back together" or so they think. Neither parent wants back on that path together, too much water under the bridge and it has even washed out the one or two times a reconciliation might have happened years ago. The parents they shared have grown into two totally different people and they have only the kids as a connection to that time in their lives. I think they have learned all too well the guilt, anger and embarrassment aspects of life but the really good emotions have been sublimated so their joy, love and other natural feelings are so far removed they can barely be reached or experienced. I hope age helps them out of this emotional rut but that is really up to them.
Thank you, Suzette. Yes, the comment threads on Thought~Bytes make for intriguing reading in my mind.
I appreciate the definition of "anger." I also feel that is the common understanding. In addition, however, I think we get angry also when faced with something that we have repressed or are afraid of facing.
I consider anger as the "final defense." That's why it is so strong. To keep me away from the part of me I don't want to face/deal with.
Good therapists will encourage patients to go with their anger and behind the anger come the tears and the "wound" is now open.
There is nothing to "get." Sometimes Bytes connect strongly with an individual and their situation, sometimes they connect loosely, sometimes, not until later and sometimes never. Everyone has a different mental metabolism.
Though, you might turn off the TV while you ponder these.
Thanks for getting back to me! Hugs.. And, by the way, I have a new fantastic angel icon, come by and comment on it, when you have the time. It's easy to find on my photo page! Thanks.
I think there may be some news coming out of California later today on the untimely demise of Mr. Snerd. Seems him and Joan have eloped to Hawaii to play some cricket with the Obama natives.
John, grief involves expectations. One expects to never be with the person who died. One expects to not have the rewards of winning the gold medal because of the injury. In order to expect something, to have the great sadness and devistation of grief, one must have learned quite a lot. One must value something greatly. One has to learn all those things. No newborn child suffers grief. They can suffer physical pain but grief is of the mind, not the body.
Oh, thanks for your angelic comment on my new photo, dear. You're a true blue friend. And, guilt isn't always a bad thing... It can move you to much forgiveness, and growth as a person.
We wouldn't feel guilt had someone not taught us right and wrong. When we do wrong and get caught, it is embarrassing. I've heard that fear is anger turned inward and vise versa, yet fear is natural and anger is learned? Are we taught to project our fears onto others? I may also be overbyting.
Oh yeah. I'm in complete agreement there. Little babies don't get mad. I had a dog that was easily embarrassed, though. I'm not sure where she learned it. She was also afraid of lions.
Babies do get angry, if you consider frustration a part of anger. Babies cannot meet their own needs and they are frustrated when they do not get what they want. Also, very young babies throw tantrums, and they are not capable of learning to throw tantrum they just do it.
Echo some of the others here. These may be learned emotions but that in itself does not mke them negative. In fact they al play an important part for somebody to function in a society. I can think of a few times from my youth when a good dose of embarrassment kept me from doing some truly stupid things...
Pat, no argument there. Not a discussion of what's an appropriate behavior just that some behaviors are learned an, therefore, we have some control over them, including unlearning.
I see in your Thought Byte that the learned emotions listed are all negative emotions. Perhaps not all of those learned emotions are negative. How about cheerfulness or affection? These are learned and positive, also.
As I said above, "Not a discussion of what's an appropriate behavior just that some behaviors are learned and, therefore, we have some control over them, including unlearning."
This doesn't contradict your major point, but I'd offer a further distinction on guilt: I've always felt that guilt can lead to positive changes, when acted upon in a constructive way. Shame, on the other hand, seems often to be very destructive and even debilitating, without motivating positive changes. I also think that both are really only relevant in the context of the culture you're in, which definitely implies a learned aspect to them. What is shameful in one culture may be acceptable, or even encouraged, in another place, or another time.
Please provide details below to help Gather review this content. If it is found to be inappropriate and in violation of the Gather Terms of Service, action will be taken.
Please select the part of the post you are reporting.
rate
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 97
The generic concept is the important facet for me in this Byte: that some emotions are natural and some are learned and what does that mean to me?
An attempt to reboot our brain so that it can carry us through until Friday evening.
Plus the grouwnup boy at the child's school desk is kind of amusing.
The question as I see it about conscience is whether that is also learned or natural. I know some is learned because each society has different values.
I say, only half in jest, that religions and mothers invented guilt.
I'm sure there will be a lot of discussion about anger in this thread. I don't think anger is natural. I believe it is a human emotion that protects us from physchological fears.
I love your answer about embarrassment.
Possibly religion had nothing to do with embarassment and this one falls squarely on the mothers' shoulders. :)
I know some people will disagree with me on this, but I do not believe that animals get "angry."
Grief is also on that border since it requires learning as well.
An important point here is that we don't necessarily need to be saddled with all the emotions we think we have no control over. If we learned something we can unlearn it. By working at it, I dropped almost all anger from my life.
I do believe that grief comes with the territory of being alive and forming relationships with others. Not sure I understand what the learning component would be here.
As I mentioned above, I wouldn't get hung up on the specifics and, as you did, I'd examine other emotions within me. Quite possibly they all have learned and natural components to them.
The next question is do I want to modify the learned portions or are they working for me in a positive way?
Rest easy
Whether innate or learned, they are powerful if harnessed correctly. The ability to manipulate the body to perform through control of these emotions is key. I guess we are right back where we often begin- conscious thought and action versus the unconscious.
Okay, you had more here than I initially suspected. *tips hat
And ... did you ever think what an anger adult looks like to a two-year old?
There used to be a parent therapy technique where they videotaped the parents interacting with the children from the child's eye level and then replayed it for the parents. Pretty powerful stuff.
Now to explain anger..."a strong feeling of displeasure and belligerence aroused by a wrong" Since a baby can get frustrated...but they don't have the mental power it takes to actually get angry, because they can't understand that they've been wronged.
The list on each side could be much longer as well. It is interesting to see the comments grow on this.
Kudos John
I appreciate the definition of "anger." I also feel that is the common understanding. In addition, however, I think we get angry also when faced with something that we have repressed or are afraid of facing.
I consider anger as the "final defense." That's why it is so strong. To keep me away from the part of me I don't want to face/deal with.
Good therapists will encourage patients to go with their anger and behind the anger come the tears and the "wound" is now open.
That's where the healing can take place.
You are doing your part, the rest is up to them.
Thought~Bytes are where the thinking never stops.
Pouts lips sadly.
You are right, parents are the prime suspoects.
A good term for them, Tanya.
Thanks.
There is nothing to "get." Sometimes Bytes connect strongly with an individual and their situation, sometimes they connect loosely, sometimes, not until later and sometimes never. Everyone has a different mental metabolism.
Though, you might turn off the TV while you ponder these.
Just kidding :)
And, by the way, I have a new fantastic angel icon, come by and comment on it, when you have the time. It's easy to find on my photo page! Thanks.
I'm on my way ...
One more: Laughing is a natural (true) emotion and thanks to the few gifted folks (like you), laughing will never go out of style.
Mortimer is much too sharp for that.
And, guilt isn't always a bad thing...
It can move you to much forgiveness, and growth as a person.
It's the generic that's important here, not the specifics.
Don't mean to say this is happening here, but concentrating on the specifics is one way people keep themselves from growing spiritually.
And, if you want, Tracy, you can go have her! Waaah!
Ha, ha!
I can think of a few times from my youth when a good dose of embarrassment kept me from doing some truly stupid things...
But all that discussion will divert us away from the learning in this Byte.
Good one and very thought provoking.
As I said above, "Not a discussion of what's an appropriate behavior just that some behaviors are learned and, therefore, we have some control over them, including unlearning."
The not sad part is we can do something about it.
and it needn't be an effort — just be true.