Are Americans "Whiners"?

I, like you, am more than ready for regime change.

Gramm is an overprivileged jerk, clearly out of touch with reality. If this is not a recessionary economy, it's about as close as you can get. It seems like every day I'm reading about tens of thousands of layoffs, and you can bet that those folks mental status can better be described as "depressed".

To be fair, though, McCain has attempted to distance himself from Gramm's less-than-brilliant comments (something you should have mentioned in your article, I think).

Gramm's choice of words certainly could have been better, calling Americans "whiners" is not very intelligent. But the truth is we are not in a recession, at least not technically speaking. A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative growth. We have yet to have one quarter of negative growth. While it is true we are in an economic slowdown, and the potential we will see a recession is very real, those who believe were are currently in a recession do not know what the term actually means.

Charles,

Thanks for commenting. Since you are speaking about truth, I was looking into the recession question. It is difficult to KNOW whether we are in a recession since they are generally determined after the fact.

As this article (http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/03/15/recession_is_here_economist_declares/) points out:

"Economists generally define a recession as two consecutive quarters of economic contraction, something that can only be measured after the fact. The US economy grew at a scant 0.6 percent rate in the 2007 fourth quarter."

The same article quoted Martin Feldstein (President of the National Bureau of Economic Research):

"The United States has already slipped into a deep recession that could be the most serious since World War II, said Martin Feldstein, president of the Cambridge group that is considered the official word on economic cycles.

more stories like this"The situation is bad, it's getting worse, and the risks are that the situation could be very bad," Feldstein said in a speech yesterday at a financial industry conference in Boca Raton, Fla."

and

"Feldstein, president of the National Bureau of Economic Research and a professor of economics at Harvard University, said the chief causes of the shrinking economy are sinking housing prices, months of job losses, and turmoil in the financial markets.

The National Bureau of Economic Research is the official arbiter of when recessions begin, and it could still be months before the organization makes that determination. If it does, that would mark a formal end of six years of economic expansion."

So while you claim that those who claim we are in a recession don't know what the term really means, I would suggest that you too go back and check that definition and understand that while we may not know until later whether or not we CURRENTLY are in a recession, that brighter minds than either you or I believe that we shall in fact find out that a recession is here.

Thanks again for visiting and joining in the conversation.

Phil Gramm doesn't have anything to worry about so what is your problem? That's generally what these types mean when they talk like that.

Lex,

You are right.

We whine about unemployment.

We whine about gasoline at over $4/gallon.

We whine about the ice caps melting.

We whine about signing statements.

We whine about lies about WMD's that lead us into a war.

We whine about fatalities in Iraq.

We whine about FISA abuses by the President.

We whine about torture.

We whine about rendition.

We whine about "Executive Privilege" being used to deny Congress the ability to monitor the Executive Branch.

We whine about millions of emails run through the RNC from the White House disappearing.

We whine about a government surplus turning into massive deficits.

We whine about $8 billion disappearing in Iraq.

So I apologize. I should just get over it I guess.

Phill Gramm is a very rich man, he looks at our current economic situation like all wealth people do: An oppurtunity to make more money off of those that are less fortunate. The wealthy increase with in down times, while the rest of us struggle to get by. When you are figuring out your family buget, the essentials to life make the majority of our budget. When the wealthy do something like this the essentials of their life are much greater than those of normal Americans, but it doesn't even come close to making up the majority of their month budget. So, when the price of food, fuel, and life in general goes up, the wealthy are insulated to this. So to them our economic problems are all in our heads. John McCain has a major problem when it comes to economics, and the man that he listens to when it comes to economics is so removed from the rest of the country that he can't see the trees from the forest. If you are a McCain supporter, you really need to be afraid of our economy if he is elected.

We've had it good for along time and yes we are whiners.

robert, please add my name to this list. i'd like to follow the discussion. i'm a liberal, and find fascinating the fall-out on mccain's tortured reaction to gramm's truthiness.
another strategist, carly fiorino, is giving him fits too. with friends like this!

Phil Gramm calling Americans whiners is his way of compensating for his failed policies.

He wrote legislation deregulating the mortgage industry and set the stage for the current subprime crisis. Then he goes to work for UBS, a holder of subprime mortgages. While working for UBS, he lobbies congress on the mortgage crisis as Vice Chairman of UBS Bank, while advising the McCain campaign on economics. UBS loses billions in the subprime fiasco. When you think about the subprime mortgage crisis, think of Phil Gramm.

He slipped the "Enron Exemption" onto an appropriations bill and set the stage for the Enron energy scam in 2000 -- while his wife was sitting on the board of Enron. When you remember the rolling blackouts in California, think of Phil Gramm.

During the savings and loan scandal he used his clout to protect his Texas cronies -- losses at Texas S&Ls comprise more than one-half of all S&L losses nationwide. When you think of a shill of the banking industry, think Phil Gramm.

Consider this, if McCain is elected, Gramm may well be his Treasury Secretary. Can this country afford that?

Great post Baby J, all accurate information, and a great assement of what would happen if McCain is elected.

i agree with mark on baby j's post, above.

mccain is fortunate, because he is not held to the same standards as his opponent in the campaign

for evidence check out the ten gaffes made by mccain or his team last week.

http://www.alternet.org/election08/91245/?page=entire&ses=90c72257255467c01c2bdcc3b37188ac

seemingly, these are gaffes not held against mccain in the same way that, say, they would be/are, if obama were guilty of doing them.

instead, it seems that mccain is forgiven all gaffes by the msm, "it's only mccain being mccain", and, worse, mccain has managed to make this an election that is a "referndrum on obama", because obama is said to be an unknown quantity to many voters.

as much as this is unfair, its a burden that obama has to shoulder

readers of this blog may also be interested in the three op eds below.

no 1 is al hunt reviewing two recent books on how the bushies have hurt the middle class, while nos 2 and 3 are on the revelations of the new yorker reporter, jane mayer, in a book on torture being condoned by the WH. no3, by frank rich, is "richly" documented with hypertext cross-references:

1) http://www.iht.com/bin/printfriendly.php?id=14448398



2) http://impeachforpeace.org/impeach_bush_blog/?p=5484

3) http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/13/opinion/13rich.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

His quote was taken out of context, and was aimed at the leadership of the nation, and the mainstream media. He was saying that the economy isn't as bad as what's in the news - which is true, we aren't officially in a recession yet, but everybody is running around yelling the sky is falling.

Don't get me wrong, the economy is not in good shape, and the primary reason is our extreme energy cost inflation. But it's still important to note Sen. Gramm's remarks have been taken out of context.

Sorry Tad. They weren't taken out of context. Gramm tried to change the meaning of the words later. Honestly.

Let's take a look at how the Washington Times, the RIGHT-WING paper, covered his statement which started with an interview with them:
http://www.washtimes.com/news/2008/jul/09/mccain-adviser-addresses-mental-recession/

"With the economy on the top of voters' minds, Republican presidential candidate John McCain's top economic adviser said the Arizona senator will lay down a detailed program to revive dynamic growth with dramatic tax and spending reforms.

In an interview with the Washington Times, Phil Gramm, a former Texas senator who is now vice chairman of UBS, the giant Swiss bank, said he expects Mr. McCain to inherit a sluggish economy if he wins the presidency, weighed down above all by the conviction of many Americans that economic conditions are the worst in two or three decades and that America is in decline.

"You've heard of mental depression; this is a mental recession," he said, noting that growth has held up at about 1 percent despite all the publicity over losing jobs to India, China, illegal immigration, housing and credit problems and record oil prices. "We may have a recession; we haven't had one yet."

"We have sort of become a nation of whiners," he said. "You just hear this constant whining, complaining about a loss of competitiveness, America in decline" despite a major export boom that is the primary reason that growth continues in the economy, he said.

"We've never been more dominant; we've never had more natural advantages than we have today," he said. "We have benefited greatly" from the globalization of the economy in the last 30 years.

Mr. Gramm said the constant drubbing of the media on the economy's problems is one reason people have lost confidence. Various surveys show that consumer confidence has fallen precipitously this year to the lowest levels in two to three decades, with most analysts attributing that to record high gasoline prices over $4 a gallon and big drops in the value of homes, which are consumers' biggest assets.

"Misery sells newspapers," Mr. Gramm said. "Thank God the economy is not as bad as you read in the newspaper every day."

A "Nation of Whiners"....HOW is THAT out of CONTEXT. It is in BLACK AND WHITE. So cut the SPIN and smell the coffee.

You are right. Gramm tried to back-pedal and CHANGE what he had said but he had his foot in his mouth down to his tonsils:
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/07/10/gramm-what-we-need-is-more-leadership-and-less-whining/

"Gramm said he that he was trying to say the nation's leaders, not its people, were "whiners."

"The whiners are the leaders, hell, the American people are victims, but it didn't quite come out that way in the story," Gramm said. These national and congressional leaders "blame speculators and oil companies for our problems, instead of presenting concrete programs for using energy more efficiently, or leaders who don't think we can compete with Mexico.

"What we need is more leadership and less whining," he added.

But he stood by his assessment that the country was in a "mental recession."

"I said we are in a mental recession. We keep getting the steady drum beat of bad news…it's become a mental recession," said Gramm. "We don't have measured negative growth. That's a fact, that's not a commentary.""

So NO it was NOT taken OUT OF CONTEXT. So please drop the Republican Talking points and pay attention for a minute. Gramm screwed up, said what he believed, and is a big liability for the McCain campaign.

Check my references and please provide yours if you disagree.

I find it humorous that I am told that I am using "Republican Talking points" when in fact I am not one. It was just the impression I had from the various sources I had read over the last few days.

To me, your quotes still sound mostly like he's complaining about the press and the leadership - ie his OWN PARTY'S leadership. But I have no real reason to defend Phil Gramm, per se...so whatever. :)