It's been quite a while since I've conducted one of these. I was having a conversation with one of my favorite Gather members ( hint...he sort of looks like infomercial king Billy Mays ) concerning illegal immigration, so I thought that I would poll Gather members to see how they feel about a pathway to U.S. Citizenship for illegal immigrants.
So here's your chance to let us know how you feel. All comments and opinions are welcome, but please at least include a yes or no answer in your comments.
Do you think that illegal immigrants who are currently in the U.S. be given a pathway to U.S. Citizenship?
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Comments: 43
Did you get my vote?
Eamon...Interesting. Good to see you again.
It's "do as I say and not as I do" in a very general sense (I'm not commenting specifically on anyone here responding to the poll).
There are millions of undocumented workers in this country who came here for nothing more than an opportunity to work hard and find security for themselves and their families.
American companies have a lot of responsibility here as they have profited from this and have turned a blind eye to the law.
The logistics and expense of repatriating the undocumented is prohibitive. The idea is unethical and cruel.
Many who do come here illegally have children who are considered naturalized American citizens. Would it be fair to these children to be uprooted or to be separated from their families?
Undocumented workers work hard and pay taxes and contribute to the economy. To repatriate the undocumented would take billions out of our economy and billions more to accomplish, reducing our tax base at the same time. There would be job vacancies that no one else wants to fill.
These undocumented workers, and we are talking about the Hispanic people coming across from Mexico, are hard working and family-oriented. I believe that as a population they exhibit very low crime rates; they are too busy working and have little incentive to commit crime, the one exception to this is coming to this country illegally in the first place.
This is a very difficult issue, not so black and white. I strongly believe that we are a nation of laws and that we should abide by the law. Since we (i.e. government and industry) have some culpability here I feel that a pragmatic response is appropriate.
I think a pathway to citizenship is a reasonable approach, but I also think that our first priority should be to secure our southern border as best we can.
The pathway to citizenship approach could also address a few more issues as part of the process. Tax surcharges and fines could be assessed on incomes and used to pay for the securing of our southern border and for the cost of processing the undocumented.
English tutoring and competency tests as well as instruction in American civics could also be required as a condition, perhaps conducted at a place of worship before or after Sunday services. This would enable Hispanics in general to better assimilate into this country and to participate in our democracy.
If you think "No, illegal immigrants should be sent back to their place of origin", I'd like to know what remedies you might suggest.
How would you proceed with implementing those remedies?
How would you suggest we pay for it?
Is the deportation of millions of people good for our economy? Our country? Our image abroad?
Does deportation make any sense at all until we secure our border with Mexico?
Is securing the border even possible or affordable?
How would this reflect on our national psyche?
How would deportation affect the relationship between our legal Hispanic citizens and the rest of us?
But they will , another case of our gov'ment ignoring the will of the people.
I think deporting an adult who was brought here as a child is a form cruel and unusual punishment and a form of punishing someone because who his/her parents were. Such people may not even realize they entered this country illegally, and even if they are now old enough to have eventually reached that conclusion, as children they had little or no choice in the decision and should not be held responsible for their parents actions.
I also think it is unreasonable to deport someone who has been here for over a decade and has been a law-abiding, productive member of their community. By the way I do not think minor traffic offenses and the minor violations of law that even most citizens at sometime commit disqualifies them from being considered law-abiding.
As for those who are suspected of serious violations of our laws, they too are entitled to a trial and only after being found guilty and subject to the punishment our laws allow for those crimes should they be considered eligable for deportation. We should not use foreign nations as a dumping ground for our crimials.
I never thought I would say this but I pretty much agree with Carol LeHane.
I have expressed this on Mike Ws article today.
Great poll question. I spent the entire day in court today for the prosecution of an illegal alien who stole the identity of a US citizen. During the jury selection nearly half the jury was replaced by alternates because they said they could not abide by illegal aliens. Americans speak and the politicians don't listen…..
I vote no pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens.
Mike W.
What color is the sky in your world? Illegal aliens do not pay taxes! How do you pay taxes when you don't have a Social Security number? Every single illegal alien I've ever arrested with a pay check stub in their pocket was claiming at least 5 or 6 deductions so they paid no Federal taxes and very little or no State taxes.
Illegal aliens from Mexico alone send billions of dollars OUT of the US every year. I don't know where you get your information about immigration issues, but you really should not comment about it unless you know what you are talking about.
Carol,
You have it backwards. Those foreign nations used the US as a dumping ground for THEIR criminals. Illegally entering the US is a criminal misdemeanor (8 USC 1325). You don't honestly think that illegal aliens suddenly turn honest just because they managed to sneak past the Border Patrol. If you do, then I know this great big canyon in northern Arizona that I would love to sell you!
Illegals and those without SSN can pay federal and state taxes and in many cases do. They get a number I am thinking EIN employee identification number but I could be wrong.
While I do agree that for the most part all illegals should be deported there are some that dont.
Glad to see you are not as closed minded on this subject as I thought you were. My apoligies for having misjudged you.
Most most who enter this country illegally do not enter it to commit crimes, and there is no telling why some of them choose to do so. In the case of gang-related activity it may be a case of when in Rome do as the Romans do. Our inner cities have a long history of gang problems.
Also deporting a criminal just leaves that person free to attempt re-entry and there is evidence that career criminals who are deported will try to re-enter and are likely to succeed in those attempts. For our own safety and the safety of the innocent citizens of their nation of origin we should put them in prison while we have the chance.
Simply deporting people who commit crimes here is in a sense giving them a pass on those crimes and in no way discourages them from committing crimes in the future.
I live in California, was born here as were my parents. Amnesty brings more illegals. That's all it does. Those who came as babies and were educated on the citizens' dimes still know very well their status. Many are self-employed.
Amnesty is a very bad policy that encourages law-breaking.
Just exactly where do you get your information or "evidence" from? Five years on the Mexican border convinced me that illegal aliens are the most dishonest people I've ever encountered.
Google 8 USC 1325 and read the statute. It is a criminal misdemeanor to illegally enter the US. Illegal entry is a premeditated CRIME and every single illegal alien that enters the US illegally absolutely knows that what they are doing is a crime. Every illegal alien that comes to this country has the full intention of committing a crime, 8 USC 1325. So your claim that they don't come here to commit a crime is just plain false.
Don't deport illegal aliens because they will just come back? What kind of logic is that? If illegal aliens come back after they are deported, they get prosecuted and spend an average of 24 months in a federal prison. And as soon as they finish their time, they get deported again; they do not get to see an Immigration Judge. If they return again, they go to prison again for an even longer sentence and get deported again.
Lori,
Where do you get your information from? How do you know illegal aliens pay taxes? I've arrested many thousands of illegal aliens during my career. The number of illegal aliens I found that had taxpayer ID numbers I can count on one hand. What I have found is that a staggering number of the illegal aliens I encountered were collecting welfare.
And I know I am going to tick off some people here, but if a woman comes across the border illegally and is pregnant and has the baby here, the child should not automatically become a US citizen....
WASHINGTON — While locating illegal aliens in the United States has become a major homeland security priority since Sept. 11, one federal agency knows where many illegal aliens are, but won't share its information.
The Internal Revenue Service receives millions of tax filings each year from illegal aliens — even helping illegals file their forms by giving them Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers. But under federal law, the IRS (more news | Web) is prohibited from sharing its data with other agencies.
"The internal revenue code really does not differentiate between legal or illegal status," said IRS representative Patricia Kirk.
ITINs are used in place of Social Security numbers on tax returns. One tax preparer said he frequently hands out ITINs to help hundreds of illegals file their returns.
"Not only can they actually file a tax return, but they can actually meet their rights and responsibilities as taxpayers and also enjoy some of the benefits that taxpayers enjoy," said Salvador Gonzalez of the Midwest Tax Clinic. "Some of them get money back. Some of them pay."
RelatedStories
Some Peace Activists Refuse to Pay Taxes IRS Allows Late Filers, Not Late Payers Since 1996, the IRS has handed out over 6 million ITINs, and some illegal immigrants hope by using the ITINs to file tax returns, they can show they are deserving of citizenship.
But at least one immigration group charges that the ITINs are merely a way for illegals to skirt the law and try to legitimize living inside the country.
WASHINGTON — While locating illegal aliens in the United States has become a major homeland security priority since Sept. 11, one federal agency knows where many illegal aliens are, but won't share its information.
The Internal Revenue Service receives millions of tax filings each year from illegal aliens — even helping illegals file their forms by giving them Individual Taxpayer Identification Numbers. But under federal law, the IRS (more news | Web) is prohibited from sharing its data with other agencies.
"The internal revenue code really does not differentiate between legal or illegal status," said IRS representative Patricia Kirk.
ITINs are used in place of Social Security numbers on tax returns. One tax preparer said he frequently hands out ITINs to help hundreds of illegals file their returns.
"Not only can they actually file a tax return, but they can actually meet their rights and responsibilities as taxpayers and also enjoy some of the benefits that taxpayers enjoy," said Salvador Gonzalez of the Midwest Tax Clinic. "Some of them get money back. Some of them pay."
Since 1996, the IRS has handed out over 6 million ITINs, and some illegal immigrants hope by using the ITINs to file tax returns, they can show they are deserving of citizenship.
But at least one immigration group charges that the ITINs are merely a way for illegals to skirt the law and try to legitimize living inside the country.
"The federal government should not be doing a single thing to help these illegal aliens remain in the United States. They should be focusing their efforts like a laser beam on finding and deporting illegal aliens," said David Ray of the Federation for American Immigration Reform.
While the IRS can't share its information on tax filers with any other governmental agency — including the Department of Homeland Security, which recently took over duties of policing illegal aliens — immigrants continue to enter the country by avoiding the legal channels.
"It is another example of a schizophrenic federal government that hasn't quite decided what it is going to do about illegal immigration," Ray said.
Gonzales said he is pleased that illegal aliens are not only participating in the country's growth, but are being protected according to the laws of the land.
"This is the law. The law says that if you earn income in the United States you are required to pay income tax and you are required to file an income tax return," he said.
While the debate rages, illegal immigrants continue to dump income taxes into the federal coffers. The latest data shows that two years ago, tax filers with ITINs sent the IRS $300 million in taxes.
Fox News' Steve Brown contributed to this report.
Took about 5 seconds of research.
Would that be correct?
ITINs are used in place of Social Security numbers on tax returns. One tax preparer said he frequently hands out ITINs to help hundreds of illegals file their returns.
Interesting contradiction.
Estimates vary, but the number of illegals here is between 12 and 20 million, which averages out to 16 million. Lets take a look at the numbers.
$300,000,000 (in taxes) divided by 16,000,000 illegals running around the country equals a whopping $18.75 per illegal in tax revenue. Doesn't sound like it benefits the U.S. in any way.
Lori,
I live and work in the heartland of America. I was on the border for five years at the time of 9/11. The illegal aliens I arrest now are over a thousand miles from the border. I don't need to ask them if they are paying taxes, they would only lie to me anyway. I see their check stubs; I find their counterfeit Social Security cards, and the stolen identities they use. Most are collecting social services, but they most certainly are not paying income tax.
I really had to laugh at the article you posted as "proof" of illegal aliens paying taxes. First, you can't believe anything a "reporter" writes. The news services are owned by big business interests who make a lot of money off illegal aliens. As a direct result, the news services spend all their effort trying to influence the public's view of illegal aliens. They do it by only relating facts that support their politics in order to influence yours.
Let's look at the creative writing in this article used to further their political agenda. First, ITIN numbers are not solely issued to illegal aliens. Only a small number actually go to illegals. But they don't say that in the article. They say 6 million ITIN numbers have been issued in the last 12 years, but stop short of saying how many of those went to illegal aliens.
They also write, "…some illegal immigrants hope by using the ITINs to file tax returns, they can show they are deserving of citizenship." How do they know that; what is their source for that information? Getting citizenship requires that you become a Lawful Permanent Resident (LPR) first. And if you get LPR status, then of course you are going to pay taxes.
If you take your time to read the article, there is not a single solid fact to back up the premise of the story. What a joke.
BTW, the illegal alien I testified against was not paying taxes. The IRS was going after the person who,s identity he stole for unpaid income tax. The illegal alien was convicted on all counts of aggravated forgery and identity theft. The jury took about 15 minutes to come to a unanimous guilty verdict.
The nightmare that people who have had their SS numbers stolen is amazing. The burden of proving the theft falls on them, and all the government agencies and credit bureau's won't lift a finger to help them. Bob Sullivan is a senior writer for MSNBC and has written several articles regarding the damage done to people after an illegal has stolen their SS number. I'd bet he'd love to talk to someone that has dealt with the problem first hand.
bobsullivan@feedback.msnbc.com
BTW, a lot of us CITIZENS really appreciate the job you guys are doing even though the Federal Gov't won't give you all the tools you need. Thank you.
Eamon
Is provide the numbers/sources you answer to everything. I don't need numbers/sources to conclude that simply deporting a criminal rather than sending him/her to prison gives that person a pass on the crimes they have committed, and I think most readers understood I was talking about real criminal activity that results in the violation of the criminal law, not immigration law, or traffic laws and would if committed by someone who was here legally would after being found guilty result in the prison sentence.
I also don't need numbers/sources to conclude that simply deporting criminals rather than putting them in prison puts our citizens at risk because it leaves that person free to once more enter this country illegally and commit more crimes.
I also don't need numbers to conclude that simply deporting a criminal leaves that person free to continue pursuing criminal activity in the country to which he/she is deported.
Also I don't need either number or sources to conclude that children who enter this country illegally with their parents did not make a conscious decision to break our immigration laws or too conclude that they should not be held responsible for the actions of their parents. That reasoning is embedded in our Constitution in the amendment about bills of attainder and laws working the corruption of blood.
I don't need numbers or sources to conclude these things because either common sense or the spirit of laws by which we govern ourselves allows me reach these conclusions using my own mind.
Wow, what part of "criminal misdemeanor" don't you understand? Illegal entry, identity theft, possessing/manufacturing counterfeit government documents are all criminal violations. How many crimes does an illegal alien have to commit before you will acknowledge they are criminals? It's funny that you don't consider immigration law as "real" law.
Being smuggled into the US as a child (or otherwise) does not entitle anyone to citizenship. No one should profit from breaking the law. There is nothing in the Constitution about immigration law and it is interesting that you think it applies. Blame the parents/smugglers.
What makes you think that illegal aliens don't serve their prison time? I have eight file drawers full of files for illegal aliens currently in jail that have immigration holds on them. When they have served their sentences, they come to our custody and they are deported.
You really need to learn about our immigration law. If you did, you would understand how well our immigration system works and how our system is far more generous than any other immigration system south of our border.
I don't know where you get your ideas about our immigration system, but you are definitely misinformed.
Lori,
Bottom line; if you enter the US illegally, be prepared to deal with the consequences.
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