OMG is Sarah Jessica Parker Skinny!!!!! Addendum

Oh for the love of God. Yes, government is bad, but it's because of the corporate hand on the tiller right now, and the fact they have raped the taxpayer at every opportunity. You idiot conservatives had eight years of a free hand, and all you did was bring this country to it's knees. Give the disinformation a rest.

What eight years are you talking about? It certainly wasn't the past eight years. President Bush can't be the tiller handler you're speaking of. He is as close to a Neo-Lib as you can get.

He may call himself a conservative but that is about it. The government has grown massively under his presidency. (...and as always I am speaking of a fiscal conservative as social concerns have no business in the government)

And furthermore, the Neo-Libs should be happy as hell. The next 4 years will be theirs no matter who wins. McCain is no conservative, and Obama is ... an unknown, but most surely not a conservative.

I couldn't agree with you more about corporate control, but you can add to that, other groups such as trial lawyers, teacher unions, etc.

The people lost control of their government 86 years ago. Get over it and do something about it.

BTW, you seldom, if ever, hear me call anyone idiots, etc. or be personally derogatory about anyone on here or elsewhere, even if I lose my temper (which I do often), but the Neo-Libs are so angry and hostile it is commonplace to do so. And, what pray tell, what is disinformation? What exactly did I say that was not true?

Hmm, maybe it was all the conservatives in the land that supported his every move that confused me. For crap's sakes, can you tell the truth at all? Who'd you vote for in 2000 and 2004? Give me a break. All of a sudden, Bush is a red headed step child, but I remember when he was der fuhrer, to all you goose stepping conservative lackys.

Neo libs, huh? Nice framing exercise. What conservative think tank came up with that one? Same one that came up with Death Tax? You aren't pushing Bush off on liberals, and I could care less if you are insulted, you deserve it, considering what you folks have brought this country to.

There may be doubt about Obama's actual stance on some things, but there sure isn't about McSame. Much as he tries, he won't be able to escape that title, since his voting record shows him firmly in the Bush camp, with 100% voting with him in 2007, and 95% voting with him in 2008. You can't refute that, though I know many will try. He kissed the ring of Bush in 2003, for a chance at the presidency in 2008, and continues to follow the will of the shadow corporate government that backed Bush. Four more years of Bush, I think I'll get over that, instead, Bert.

You don't consider yourself a Neo-liberal, government control of everything? Or should I use the term Fascist, government control with private ownership. Personally I believe they (Neo-Libs) are more socialistic.

Bush may be a Republican, though he certainly doesn't act like one, but he is not a conservative in any stretch.

It would seem to me that conservatives had a small chance from 1980-88 even though congress was still under liberal control, and maybe a little say from 1996 to 1998, but most politicians in both parties after that reverted back to the same old stuff you preach.

There certainly have been no fiscal conservatives in the past eight years, in fact the past 2 you guys have had pretty a complete rein.

As you clearly pointed out McCain voted a lot with Bush, and since Bush has been basically a liberal these past eight years, what do you expect. The same old liberal crap we've heard for the past 86 years.

I don't know how you could even judge conservatives, because they've really not had any power in all that time.

And, I am certain you are no Hubert Humphrey or Bobby Kennedy, classical liberals, now appearing conservative with your ilk to compare them to.

"You don't consider yourself a Neo-liberal, government control of everything? Or should I use the term Fascist, government control with private ownership. Personally I believe they (Neo-Libs) are more socialistic."

Uh, your definitions are a little off. The guy that veritably invented fascism, Mussolini, said it was the blending of state and corporate interests. As for who represents fascism today, need I say more...... As for neo liberal, more framing, liberal I'll accept, but moronic attempts to link me to Bush, when he was your boy, are dishonest, and disingenuous, but when has that ever stopped you lying conservatives before?

"Bush may be a Republican, though he certainly doesn't act like one, but he is not a conservative in any stretch."

Once again, red headed stepchild that was beloved, a few years ago, by your type. You need to just accept the blame for being clueless who you elected, and move on.

"It would seem to me that conservatives had a small chance from 1980-88 even though congress was still under liberal control, and maybe a little say from 1996 to 1998, but most politicians in both parties after that reverted back to the same old stuff you preach."

I'm merely preaching opposition to those that think corporatism is the answer, and you seem to be one of them.

"There certainly have been no fiscal conservatives in the past eight years, in fact the past 2 you guys have had pretty a complete rein."

Hardly. We may control the house, but with Leiberman's turncoat help, the majority has been Republican, basically, in the Senate. The "do nothing congress" is precisely due to the partisan obstruction of the Senate Republicans, a group of Repubs that so hated the filibuster they were ready to nuke it, but now use it as their favorite tool. If that doesn't work, Bush just vetoes it. Complete reign my butt.

"As you clearly pointed out McCain voted a lot with Bush, and since Bush has been basically a liberal these past eight years, what do you expect. The same old liberal crap we've heard for the past 86 years."

Damn, it takes brass balls to call Bush a liberal. I don't think you've got them, and I don't believe anyone's going to fall for your crap, but nice try.

"I don't know how you could even judge conservatives, because they've really not had any power in all that time."

Hey, you laughing boys elected a large number of presidents, including the last one....twice. Are you trying to say you are that clueless about who you've voted for, all of the last eighty-six years? If that's the case, you shouldn't be holding forth on politics at all, you obviously don't have the head for it.

"And, I am certain you are no Hubert Humphrey or Bobby Kennedy, classical liberals, now appearing conservative with your ilk to compare them to."

I'm not convinced you're certain about anything, at the moment, but convince me, it's edifying to hear how the wing nut right figures they can now distance themselves from the fiasco they perpetrated on our country these last seven plus years, and how they plan on regaining ANY credibility, in light of that, lol.

I don't know who SJP is, but now I know how to get my articles viewed more. Too bad I didn't know about this when they had triple points.

A side point: People do not understand issues in politics. That is why they read about O.J. Simpson, but during that famous trial, how many people knew about the Al Quida? They were already a threat then.

We don't keep our eye on the ball.

Thanks for a great article.

When I was VERY little - sometime in the 1950s - my parents had bought me a Little Golden Book - the Policeman is our Friend. Shortly after that my father was stopped for a rare ticket. I was sitting in the back of the car waving and waving - at my friend, the policeman.
Suffice it to say, my parents really milked this experience.
And I've not really seen police (or government) as "friend" for a VERY long time.

i really get the most upset with government when they think they have the right to exercise control over the majority of every little thing in your life--I don't need Uncle Sam to tell me how to do every little thing and wish he'd butt out--take schools for example--once they get hold of your child they want to determine that child's path instgead of the parent and child determining that--they enjoy putting those labels on the kids so they can collect that state aid too--same doodoo different day and it is getting old.

Ron W.

First of all, you have me confused with someone else, or you really haven't read anything I've written.

I am a classical Goldwater conservative. I was a registered Independent for 19 years and a Democrat for 9 years and couldn't get the ahead here with the socialists in Maryland. I only registered Republican in the early 1990's to help try to hold back the liberals here locally.

I did not vote for Bush in either primary and would gladly have voted for someone else if the Dems would have had anyone, anyone worthy of a vote. So don't blame me for Bush. Gore and Kerry are both Neo-libs and narcissists and not worthy of anything let alone a vote. I truly held my nose, cursed and voted for Bush on a humble and lost; but there was no win.

Yes, I am a fiscal conservative that believes in small government, low taxes and freedom of choice. The Federal government has absolutely no business in Housing (carter), Education, nothing other than what the constitutions allows.

I am Pro-choice, Pro-Alternative Union (i.e for gays, polygamists and polyandrists), legalizing prostitution (Taxing and controlling it like any other business), legalizing some drugs, and I am adamantly against the Patriot Act, Warrant-less searches (we fought a war in the 1770's about that), and other anti-freedom crap.

If you think the Neo-cons want me on their side you are sadly mistaken. I am as much their enemy as the Neo-libs.

I am a fiscal conservative and a social liberal. I am anti-government and pro-people. I don't want to control anyone's life and I certainly don't want anyone controlling mine.

As far as corporations are concerned, when I finally have my series done on them, you are truly in for a big surprise.

Pamela

Read what I have to say about education.

We are homeschooling my wife's son and I only wish I had my two children.

Well, I'll be glad to see it, if it's true, but really, Bert, you still voted for Bush...twice. No excuses for that, in my book, for anyone that wants to be taken seriously about their political agenda. If you'd voted for Gore or Kerry, there'd be a different conversation going on here, and a different world, and I dare say a much better one. As I said, Bush was your guy, and all the framing in the world doesn't change that.

Ron,

if you were really serious I doubt you would say that. I have voted in every general election since I could vote, 41 years. Never missed one. I couldn't have lived with myself voting for either Gore or Kerry. I not happy that was the choice but that is what it was.

I don't know if the world would have been the same with either of those 2 in there. I'm not so sure any of us would be here to talk about it. I would not have wanted to risk our lives with those guys.

I must say that the only thing I partly agree with Bush is on the terrorist and war side. I believe the war was inevitable and I see nothing wrong with invading Iraq.

Having said that, there was a lot of mishandling of it. We were not ready to do it. After Clinton down sized and demoralized our military, it was a lot to ask. Out guys did well with what they had. But we went in unprepared. Rumsfeld is the last person who should have been in charge. He is as incompetent as Ashcroft was evil.

I hate voting for the evil of 2 lessers but that is what the 2 party system has been giving us lately... and this year is the worst yet.

Lol, I would have expected nothing less from you. We might not have been here, right. A few idiots in a cave that are still out there, at Bush's pleasure, might have killed us all. Fear mongering for political advantage. If they were that potent, Bush is making a big mistake not even seeking Usama, don't you think? It's a political strategy, he's worth more in the bush, so to speak as a fear factor. No one in Iraq had a thing to do with 9/11, for God's sake, or are you one of the thirty four percent that still believe Cheney's lies? As for that crap that the downsizing of the military was Clinton's fault, might I remind you that Bush and Thatcher coined the term "peace dividend", and the Republican congress, was more than happy to downsize and use the money elsewhere. That, of course, is another conservative lie, something that you seem to peddle a lot of. Unless you can tell me how continuing Bush policy, working with the Republican congressional members, and following the path almost all politicians of both parties embraced, and advocated, at the time, is all Clinton's fault, I'll not let you wag the political dog on that point, without correction, lol.

Basically, nothing you said had anything to do with the initial point. However, even though off point, I'm the first to admit most of what you said is true, though certainly not all of it.

I think the major problem is you are so angry you have focused all of your rage on Bush. He's out shortly, but you are still blinded by the fury. I like to forget my mistakes, learn by them and advance.

We have some enormous problems facing us and our children, and no solutions are going to be found in the red eyed glaze of hatred. Just calm down and try to be rational. we'll make it through.

We've lived through some really bad presidents over the past 20 years, and even worse legislatures. We have driven most of the good people out of Washington and made it so uncomfortable that other good people just don't want to get involved. It has to change.

I really hope that you and those like you can get refocused and help with the problems and not just try to create more of them.

Be cool, we'll figure it out, or die trying.

If you think Bush is the focus of my wrath, you're sadly mistaken. Read"The worst congress ever" on the rolling stone site, and you'll find my source of anger. The country's present condition is the source of my anger, as well. Those who treated liberals like lepers when they were in power need not look for anything but the same, from me, but hey, the Democratic leadership isn't that vindictive, lucky for you folks. I am. You, your allies, and friends, have brought my country to the brink of collapse, screw Iraq. If you think I'm not going to do my best to see that you're never given that chance again, by holding you all to the truth instead of your revisionist lies, you're nuts.

I hear a lot of calls for compromise from the right, but I don't believe they are committed to it for a minute. I believe they practice politics as war by other means, and always will. If you want to know why, it's because of their performance as the majority party till 2006. Take a look. They totally excluded the minority during their reign, and treated them with abject contempt, as this illustrates.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/worst_congress_ever

You have just proven my point. Thanks

Your elected representatives proved mine, Thanks. You're just another shill.

Ron,

Don't you think it is time to discuss ideas and solutions?

You might win an election on hatred now and then, but solutions to our problems would be refreshing. The absolute dirth of new usable ideas is why liberals have lost most of the elections, even to Republican liberals. The country is still basically conservative (not right wing Neo-cons either, just regular Joes), as was shown by the last three interim elections where conservative Democrats bet liberal Republicans in normally Republican territory.

You just can't stand someone not being for you guys or for the current bunch in there too. Name calling and all of that will just get you an upset stomach.

I'll continue to watch out for you, keep you in my thoughts, and hope for improvement.

Be calm and know I am not your enemy. There is always a possibility if we knew each other we would be friends. Now is that a scary thought?

what a thought, heh?

Bert, unfortunately, that is the way of the world. There is not much that can be done about what people read and what they SHOULD read and care about.

"as was shown by the last three interim elections where conservative Democrats bet liberal Republicans in normally Republican territory."

What world do you live in? lol. That's just a spin of enormous proportions, unbelievable. That must be why those results scared the crap out of Republicans everywhere, right? Republicans are retiring at a "rat deserting sinking ship rate", but it was because Democrats were conservative they won, right. Many avow conservative politics, but then answer just about every question asked of them by pollsters on the liberal side of the ledger, so conservative BS is pretty good, huh? My solution is for Republicans to just get the hell out of the way and let Democrats fix all of the government that Bush purposely broke, and let us get back to funding science, etc. and quit funding religious enterprises. The list is endless, but you all would just fight every niggling point, so my solution is..... don't elect you all in the first place. Normally as an independent, I'd rather see a one party president, and another party congress, but it's going to take a fully Democratic government to restore order from Bush's messes. Thanks.

Mario, that's my line.

Ron,

I am stunned. I learned a long time ago, the world is not black and white, good or bad, and most assuredly not Republican or Democrat. why is it so difficult for you to believe people have to fit neatly into one of your boxes.

I do not have to defend Republicans anymore than I would have to berate all Democrats. You make absolutely no sense in this. You lump me in with people I have had no time for just because you think you should. You obviously know nothing about me.

How in the world are we going to get anywhere with narrow mind sets like this?

Ron, there is more to life, and everything including the weather is not Bush's fault, or Clinton's or even (wash my mouth out, Jimmy Carter's). Even the scary thought of Obama or McCain being president doesn't terrify me. I've lived through these others, I survived, and I'll live through one of them. President's have little control over anything.

The money that ran Clinton and Bush will run the winner of this election, so get used to it. Nothing will change, unless we work together and make it change.

" Ron,

I am stunned. I learned a long time ago, the world is not black and white, good or bad, and most assuredly not Republican or Democrat. why is it so difficult for you to believe people have to fit neatly into one of your boxes."

I didn't say the rank and file fit any boxes, but you all elect the people you do, for some pretty confused reasons, and that makes you part of the problem, in my book. Sorry.

"I do not have to defend Republicans anymore than I would have to berate all Democrats. You make absolutely no sense in this. You lump me in with people I have had no time for just because you think you should. You obviously know nothing about me."

Hey Bert, you've put forth some of the most tired, and time honored republican taking points. If you aren't that guy, perhaps it would help if you didn't walk like a duck and talk like a duck, Pardon moi.


"How in the world are we going to get anywhere with narrow mind sets like this?"

Well, this election cycle, I suspect by beating the pants off the conservative standard bearer, and throwing partisan republicans out of office pretty much across the board. Any questions?

"Ron, there is more to life, and everything including the weather is not Bush's fault, or Clinton's or even (wash my mouth out, Jimmy Carter's). Even the scary thought of Obama or McCain being president doesn't terrify me. I've lived through these others, I survived, and I'll live through one of them. President's have little control over anything."

Hmm....seems to me Bush did plenty, though he had you and yours cheering him on, in the beginning. Jimmy Carter put up solar panels on the white house, Reagan took them down upon taking office. What's that tell you? I know what it tells me.

"The money that ran Clinton and Bush will run the winner of this election, so get used to it. Nothing will change, unless we work together and make it change."

Go Fish, I've watched all the "help" Republicans have offered in the past two years. Clean up your own back yard, then come talk to me. Somehow, I doubt you'd ever be back.

I hit a wall, a very dense wall. But God knows, I tried. Some minds are impenetrable.

We still care about you Ron, but enough is enough.

Oh, I heartily agree. LOL

Bert,

Great point, but I wouldn't be too hard on people. They come here more for diversion than politics. Give them a little credit.

But on to politics........

At least in my opinion, Goldwater Republicans failed to gain traction because they have always been too top-down.

I will give you a for-instance. Recently Minnesota outlawed smoking in bars. This was a classic case of an over-reaching government. Talk-radio howled. A few Republicans issued press-releases, but nobody, but nobody went around to bars and oganized the people whose rights had been trampled.

They still remain a tossed-off political force.

Republicans love to hold $5,000 a plate diners to raise money - to buy TV time - to rally their supporters --- but nobody will drive to a bar, buy a guy a drink and talk government.

Sad.

I'll take that drink, as a diversion, while I protest smoke a cig, Greg, come smooze me, please. Actually, I don't drink, but I do smoke, and it galls me a bit I can't go down and watch a ballgame at my choice of sports bars, anymore. Good point, Greg, but I don't think courting second class citizens like myself is going to get you too far, lol

Greg,

I couldn't agree more. I would say a Goldwater conservative (Doesn't have to be a Republican) would never vote for a mandatory ban in any bar, opr a lot of other places.

My thinking is that it is none of the governments business. If the bar wants to cater to a smoking clientèle, that is their decision. If non-smokers don't want to come in and leave, the door swings both ways.

One of the definitions of a true conservative is they would almost never utter the words, "there ought to be a law...". My god, we have enough of them. We actually could get rid of 90% of them and still have too many.

A bar or any establishment should be allowed to make their own rules and people should be allowed to decide if they want to go. It's that simple.

The control freaks out there (and they know who they are) want government to make all of our decisions for us. To that I will never agree, not in this lifetime or the next.

Well you ain't a talkin about me, my friend, I agree with most of that. I also have a case full of guns, worked tirelessly against the amnesty bills, etc. I am a fiscal conservative, social liberal, but the GOP BS of no new taxes, while they hit me with a repressively draconian one, through their lop sided tax cuts, and bad economic policy that has devalued the dollar to about half it's pre Bush value, don't fool me in the least anymore. My savings are worth half what they were, that's a tax for your a**, ain't it? Rather take the dem"s up front thirty or so, that doesn't hit my savings for 50 after already paying taxes on it when I made it, and a sane fiscal policy, sorry.

Excuse me, there's no such thing as a sane government fiscal policy. That should have read saner.

Couldn't agree more Ron. It is almost impossible to have a sane fiscal policy when you buy votes continuously and sell yours to the highest bidder.

There is no such thing as a fair "progressive" tax. The middle class will get nailed, the lower classes get a free ride, and even though they pay most of the taxes the highest earners can get a way out.

I quit giving a cent to the GOP in 1998 (or anyone else), and I will not give them any until the return (if they were ever there) to a sane management of government, which has got to start with getting rid of most of it.

PS. Never said it was you my friend. There are a lot of others who do fit the bill, including the phantom rater who has to give me a 1 on everything. Guess he doesn't have the guts to show himself (herself).

The control freaks out there (and they know who they are) want government to make all of our decisions for us. To that I will never agree, not in this lifetime or the next.

Sure, but that is not the question. The question is why are they so organized while the people who oppose intrusive government are completely ineffective at organizing?

We get Bush and Obama (the only thing worse than Bush) because the forces opposed to big government are so ineffective.

I agree. What do you suggest?

My original point was, that most people would rather talk about rag-mag stuff.

How do we get them to care about the things that affect their everyday life and the next generations future?

Bert, people do care but they have all kinds of joys and worries in their lives. They even like to yak on about celebrities to take their minds off the business of day to day life.

The people who are supposed to focus our political energy are political parties and over the last half century liberals have done a much better job of motivating common people than conservatives. The only time conservatives have organized popular sentiments into political action is with some tax rallies, a little immigration and the religious right.

No one, but no one is organizing every day people on libertarian principles - and because of that the libertarian wing of the Republican Party has lost out to the money people and the social conservatives.

That is just the way it is, until this group gets its act together, we will have corporate or state socialism.

You are right sir!

Enjoyed the discussion. Bert, your point is true and sad and I fall into that myself. After a while you feel like there is nothing you can do and the "rag mag" entertains. I used to have an interest in politics, now it just makes me ill.

thanks Bert..a very lively discussion which you handled like a gentleman...