How do you feel about Students looking for Summer Jobs who Compete With People Supporting Families?

It is a dilema. I feel that the students need work expereince as well, and money too. But then there are people struggling so badly to raise families, keep homes etc....

I've never really thought about that. If a young person can find a job, then they should be entitled to earn some money

If a student wants a better job than pizza delivery down the road then he needs to do some work to pad the ol' resume. I mean if you graduate college and never worked a job in your life that resume and application is going to look awful bare next to someone who has been working. I was fortunate enough that I got a cooperative education job through my university for the last three years of school that helped me make up for some of my many other deficiencies.

That's a difficult one. I've never thought that kids should have to work too much when they're in high school or college. Part time, sure. But for the summer, they should work only part time if the family can afford it. They'll be working full time for a long, long time.

This is one of those 'fence straddler' things, - I see it both ways. It is sad that our economy is so bad that there are not enough jobs for ALL who want/need to work!!

Yes, we are on the fence too and here are more reasons why:
1. He has enough job experience for a decent resume. He took a year off from school and worked as a teaching assistant. Hard work and good for his resume'.

2. He has worked every summer, for pay.

He just graduated with his B.A. and made Dean's List. We figure he may have earned himself the right to take a summer off. :)

There are so many sides to this issues that a simple comment wouldn't do it justice.

1) Many students NEED to work to help thier parents put food on the table.
2) Many students NEED to work because they aren't lucky enough to have parents willing to accept them home.
3) Many students WANT to work to gain the experience they may need to get better jobs down the road
4) Many parents FORCE thier kids to work so they become responsible
5) Many students WANT to work even if they have a free place to live and free food, because they want income to pay for "fun" things.

There are even more reasons for students working and I don't necessarily think it's right or wrong, just a matter of preference and mostly a matter of the wants and needs of you and your family.

In a perfect world?, the person best qualified gets the job.
The one seeking temporary employment, ie a few months in the summer, would not meet the requirements of an employer seeking a person for long term employment.
I usually see that distinction made in the job ad.
For example, a person needing full time work would not respond to the ad wanting a person for the summer at Water World, or one to flip hamburgers at McDonalds.

a lot of companies here flat out don't have summer jobs. They take full time, perm only, which means that stuidents are flat out. Also, here in Massachusetts, there are more young people per capita in the Boston area and greater area than anywhere else in the country (all those colleges) that finding anything even a temp is very difficult for a student.


I think people who need to support their families should always be given priority.

If a student is independent and not being supported by a family, they should be given priority, too.

But a student who doesn't really need the money, no way.

I want my kids to find full time work and it is near impossible here. Last year, they were working part time and it was about 30 hours in the grocery. That taught them a good lesson and that was the point.

Work is hard.

If you start questioning whether it is ethical for a student to work and therefore not leave a job open for someone older who might need it to support a family - we might have to go back to the days when it was considered unethical for a married woman to take a job because she had a husband to support her and should leave that job open for a man or another single woman.

Even if your son come home for the summer to live with you, it doesn't mean the 45 year old manager or single mom would get the job and not another student.

If your son doesn't put together a good work history in college, he could find himself graduating from college with no good job prospects and possibly a family of his own that he can't support.

I think it's more a question of what does he want to do? Does he want to come home and take a break and help grandma or does he want to work and have his own place? I really don't think it's an ethical issue.

Not sure what to say on this. Some jobs are just better suited for the young anyway. So I guess I don't have a problem with it.

Dana- I do question the ethics of students competing with some people for jobs...depending on the situation.... it but I don't have an absolute stance and I would never support the viewpoint that it is unethical for a married woman to work or anything like that.

Also, I had a friend who'd declared himself "financially independent" of his parents and worked all through college, hard work, to support himself and pay tuition. That move helped land a scholarship for him, too. I know every situation is unique.

I think in terms of our world and our communities. I think each situation is individual and I am hoping that our economy will improve. Right now, today, jobs are very hard to come by for many and we have friends who are considering welfare assistance for the first time ever. When our son has a safety net for the summer and a place to land, we wonder whether it might be most helpful for another person to have that job.

I am not sure, though. As it turns out, he has gotten a job offer so he'll have to make up his own mind. He asked, I voiced my opinion (mildly) and he'll make a choice. He has friends where he is and I think that may be a deciding factor. All his high school friends now live in other cities.

God Bless your son,,, my grandsons are also finding the same problem,,, two of them,,,
I hope your son finds what he's looking for,,, sometimes they listen and most of the time they don't,,,

I think he may take the job which would involve helping a friend complete an order for computer games after some unexpected publicity. The friend really wouldn't be hiring just anyone to do this so it could be a good fit and not take the job away from a needy person.

Because my son has experience that the average person would not, having helped out his friend. Anyway, this might work out fine and he wouldn't be filling out those applications for other jobs out there. I hope everyone gets the job they need but that doesn't seem possible in today's economy.

I think that students looking for summer jobs are to be commended. Why are we stigmatizing them?

This is America. There is enough work for everyone. My 17 year old daughter just got a job at Arby's and she did not take it away from anyone. In fact, this Arby's cannot find anyone to work there; it seems that no one wants to work nights, weekends, etc.

Everybody who can work, should work. That is the only way our country will prosper. It is not your son's fault or the fault of any inexperienced young adult that they are competing with seasoned adults. Our country and most of it's infrastructure needs to be changed. Even a healthy nation has times when competent people are caught in flux. If I wish to stay in my line of work I need to go back to college so that my skills retain value. Job change and reduction is a constant in a technologically advancing world. Here in Michigan nearly 10 million people have left the state for either similar or different jobs. This has happened because the people managing the automobile manufacturing facilities, took for granted their product market would always be the same; it of course has not. If your son can work and work well, then he most certainly should work. It's the people who make decisions without looking forward that should feel guilty.

So glad to see you're surviving the freaky weather, Jo.

Here's another problem for students these days: if they want to get financial aid or scholarship money, they need to spend the summer working at a food bank or for habitat for humanity or meals on wheels. Students are required to do a lot of volunteering if they want to be considered for private scholarships, and many of the things that are now volunteer work used to be paid positions before budget cuts (shelving books in the public library, for example).

It is a dilemma I wish I had. Don't know how to answer this one.

Work is needed for mental health. Young or old need something to feel like their are doing something. But like others have said, where I live there are lots of help wanted signs. Not great paying but there are jobs for people who are looking.

You pose a great question. I've never really thought about it, but I think I would be pissed if I needed a job to support my family and some college student just trying to buy a new pair of shoes or a video game got the job instead.

depends on the situation

This is a short term problem. The kids will be gone in 3 months back to school and the spots they leave will be available to people who are not otherwise engaged. Next year when those kids come looking again, the jobs won't be open.

The economy is tough, but at the same time the best qualified person for the job is right for the employer and the job seeker.

Just because you are able to support him doesn't mean that he shouldn't be out there learning to support himself. I think that the computer job sounds like a great fit if you are uncomfortable with the issue though.

You have heard a bit about my situation I think. We have a 20 YO that let's face it, school is on the back burner for her right now. Does that mean that we should give her free rent and let her take a class or two until she realizes that it is tough out there and goes back to full time. Hell no! (well, I guess that is what we were doing, but not anymore) She needs to realize the benefits of working hard and even though your son had graduated, kudos to him by the way, every added job looks good on a resume these days. It means that they are multi-talented and give it their all. It shows that they will try hard at any job and make it work.

A job should go to the person most qualified, not the person that needs it most. I am sorry, but joe blow that just got laid off is just as likely to leave that pizza job when something better comes up.

If he can stay home and wants to and will use the time to study. I think that is a great option too. It is different for everyone. I try not to let the ethics of it into play. Joe Blow may need a job, but let's face it, the pizza job is not going to pay him what he probably needs.

If you can support him this summer, perhaps he could find some volunteer work that will beef up his resume even more. I think it's a sad state of affairs when we're competing with our children for jobs!

I really never thought of this and your put a great question Jo.

And if your son doesn't make some money to put away for college next year, where will his spending money come from? I just finished sending two kids through 11 years of college. That was hard enough, but finding spending money for them made it even toughter--unless they worked. I say let him work. There ARE jobs, there are not always people willing to do them. It takes a while but most people can find work. I know I will get yelled at for my opinion but you did ask our opinions.

I too am torn this has brought out some good points

Few questions have black and white answers and this is no different. However, in a similar situation, I would probably recommend coming home.

The best person for the job should get the job regardless of their status.

Should I not get a job because my husband can support us?

Funny thing...thinking about this. I may actually be competing with my own child for a job this year. I have been working in the real estate industry for the past 7 years, and if anyone is familiar with what has been going on in CA, you know it is bad. So far, my husband is making enough to keep us housed and fed, but we have had to seriously cut back on our lifestyle. We have 4 kids to support and one of the reasons I like real estate is the flexibility it offers. Taking a "full time" 9-5 somwhere just isn't feasible with my younger ones. We did try. For about 6 months I went to work for a bank...but even a decent paying job, well above minimum wage, does not cover day care for 3 kids and gas. We do not want our kiddos becoming latch key kids, so I have been toying with the idea of waiting tables evenings and weekends. My oldest son was looking into working as a bus boy for the summer. Wouldn't that be a hoot...I'd be bossing him around at home and at work "clear that table and hurry up!"

We have always told him when he's in college, we will help out by feeding him and keeping a roof over his head, but assumed he would work at least part time for spending money and to cover his gas and car insurance. He has worked over the summer for the past two years and put most of it in savings knowing he would be getting his license soon - he just did a few weeks ago. He is paying for half of his insurance with the money he saved. He is not working now due to a trip he is taking during the middle of summer with his youth group, however he has been picking up odd jobs - handy man stuff - to cover the cost of his trip. He's done everything from lawn care to rewiring someone's surround sound to putting together furniture.

So, even knowing that at some point we may be competing for a job, I feel that the job should go to the person who fits the employers need. Some employers just want short term or part time help. I think it will get harder for our kids to find jobs, but that is not neccessarily a bad thing. It will teach them perserverance and creativity. And the next time we go through the Mc Donald's drive through, we might actually get a smile and a correct order! These kids might actually learn to appreciate the opportunity to work.

I don't have comments about the ethical issues in your questions. I can advise your son, though, that time spent with his grandmother will never be regretted or regained. He has the rest of his life to work.

Quite a question. And quite a collection of replies. I have the same mixed feelings - one son who always got a job, another who never did...

Amanda- Wise response. He is compromising about that and spending part of the summer here, part working. You are so right about "the rest of his life" to work. :)

The range of responses has been gratifying. While I can't answer everyone individually here (I posted a "draft comment" and it was too long, I hope others will respond and did want to note that I've been in the same situation as some others here.

Cybergwen, for instance: we faced the dilemma of our son taking a year off from school, told him he could live here rent free for a brief time and then had to support himself. He did - and then returned fairly quickly to school, after a year of hard work. He became a more motivated college student :)

AmandaC- Thanks for the reminder about his need to spend time with his grandmother. That has been pulling at my heart, too, and has been a factor in my feelings. He is going to be doing that, leaving time for her, although he will also work part of the summer.

Mostly, I want to be clear that I don't mean to imply that women should not work (I'm a working woman) or anything like that. I was writing only about our specific situation and had just finished talking to a man applying for a job in a coffee shop, after having been fired from his 20 year job as a manager. My heart was torn because this man, clearly having taken a blow to his pride, had been living on his savings for over 6 months while searching for work, and was clearly starting to feel desperate. I couldn't help seeing my son as competing with someone like that and the memory of that man was fresh in my mind.

P.S. And yes, the man was needed to help support his wife and family. His wife has medical issues, minor, but they limit her work time.

Since Janet W seems to have deleted her post, I deleted my reply to it (sigh).

I can see both sides of this issue. It is sad that they have to compete for jobs at all.

I don't know... alot of students work their way through college this way. Plus some of them do jobs that maybe older people wouldn't want to do.

I feel that many students need to work not only for their support but to acquire some sort of job experience. It is unfortunate though that our economy have put some in a position of competing with youngsters for jobs which have traditionally been theirs.

Its a sign of the times and a depressing one at that.

I deleted the post because I after posted it I know it sounded bad ...I didn't take it done because of what you said....
What I was trying to say is there is no reason for a college student to take a full-time job from someone who needs it. There are lots of jobs in the newspaper looking for college students take those jobs not the ones that need to support their family . My brother took a job in the school cafe. Has your son tried to get any job at the college they give jobs to the students first. There is no reason he can not work at Mickey D's instead of taking a full time job. Take the temporary jobs....Employers do not like hiring students that after the summer they say I can not work any more cause I have to go back to school.... I know because my brother did it....So full time jobs should be for the people who need them all the time not just for the summer. If a student goes after a job he should not take he shouldn't take it.
Yes I believe they should work for their education.....but not if it is to take a full-time job from someone who needs it. There are 100's of temp jobs for students.... take those..
To attack me for what I feel was wrong....it s kids who take jobs they have no business taking and saying there are no jobs is bull there are plenty Mickey D s jobs out there.
I didn't want to sound like an A$$ but I do not feel sorry for someone going after a job they should leave for someone that has children to feed . You stated if students should take jobs from people who need them yes it hits a sore spot. Take the jobs for students instead.

sigh

I think U should support him. It is the employers responsibility to choose the BEST employee to meet THEIR NEEDS. It is your son's responsibility to choose the BEST OPPORTUNITY to meet HIS NEEDS. 10 years from now, HE is accountable to ???
Time waits for no one.

Janet- I'm glad you came back and left this response. I took down my reply to your earlier response because it was written differently, in my opinion, than the newest one and had some implications that we were somehow giving our kid a free ride or that he might be spoiled. As a parent, that did manage to irk me....and I'm sorry about that and my previous response...which I removed.

I respect your opinion. I wrote my original post because I am more in line with your way of thinking than you might believe. I felt for that man I met who was out of work, having strong references from his former employer, but still...20 years older and facing age discrimination in his work area. I do feel he has a harder road ahead of him than my younger son, just starting out in life and with no family to support. Yes, our son could come home and live with us and have that safety net if he absolutely had to....but this is not something we stress, wanting him to be more independent...and he is doing so.

However, during tough times I agree that taking a full-time job from someone could be a real issue, especially for a summer job. I know families who are scraping by on 2-3 jobs while waiting for their "old jobs" or even other jobs that pay less than their old jobs. That is who my son could compete with...and I don't like that. As far as the "temp jobs" for students, maybe they exist in some parts of the country but even those are being snapped up by adults in need. Work/Study jobs are still there, for the lucky few who get them in his area.

Perhaps job opportunities vary from one area of the country to another? I did not mean to shut you down or offend you. Your tone just seemed a bit scolding to me previously and I reacted to that. Again, apologies if I misinterpreted you in any way.

Jo C - I just discussed this topic with my SIL this morning.

Her son is looking for a summer job - he just fisnished high school and she had the same concerns.
I am on the fence about it too. She told me there were plenty of other older applicants.

He got the job, because he is friends with the young kid who has worked there for a few summers already. It's only 20 hours a week so it will give him time to play and it is a good opportunity to check out the working world - we are talking grocery store.
They cross train all their people so he will start training as a cashier.

Overall, though it is a tough call to make.

It's tough for anyone.

It's tough. And if the pizza job wouldn't go to one of the adult/family supporters no matter what your son did, your son should do what serves him best.
I have been feeling kinda weird. My 16 year old will make $5,000 again this year; my 19 year old will make about $13,000 this year (up from $8,000 last year); my 20 year old will make about $20,000 this year. All are students. They are all hard-working and good employees. Their bosses love them and keep giving them raises and promotions. I don't think there are adults who want their jobs. Pizza order taker/cashier; Starbucks barrista; bagel overnight baker and sandwich maker by day. But it does make me think that there are families who make less than my oldest daughter. And there are definitely families that make less than the $38,000 they make together. On one hand that is not good. On the other hand, shouldn't they be rewarded for their skill, responsibility and hard work? They all show up at work 15 minutes BEFORE start time...go to work when called (middle daughter got a call at 5:30 am this morning to fill in for someone who called in sick).

There is no easy answer. This bad economy is a horrible thing for the people who are paying the price. And most of those people are either at the bottom of the payscale or older. That's no way to take care of each other.

All three of my daughters work year-round, not just summer. But, the oldest one had two jobs most of the school year so she could work 40 hours...and has arranged with her bagel baking job to let her work days at a summer camp for 6 weeks where she makes better money.

Minimum wage is $8 an hour...which is $16,000 a year if you work fulltime.

I love all the responses and agree with most of them on both sides. I just want to tell a story (which is absolutely true). I worked at a company where the boss gave bigger raises to the men than the women. When called on it by the female accountant, he said, "well they have families to support." And the women don't?

It's very tough out there for anyone looking for a job. Anyone who is looking for one probably needs it, whether it is to pay for school, support a family, or some other goal. I don't think that the reason someone needs the job should be a determining factor in who gets the job.

And yet, I sympathize with older workers out there.

There are no easy answers on this one.

None taken ,,,, thanks I understand the problems
I was going to school full time plus worked full time....so I was not trying to say he was spoiled or wasnt trying to attack you....its tough for everyone... no matter what age you are. I guess I am kind of used to be commenting on people who know me....Sorry about that... I removed it cause after I thought about iust ....it came out wrong...
My hubby had to give up his job in Jan 08 because of health problems we have to deal with Social security for disability for him we had to hire a lawyer and right now we are living on just my s.s. disability check...(which I do miss work very much most my friends were at work) We are about to lose our home /car...when my hubby needs health care we have to go to Iowa City Univ. that is 75 miles one way...so just from that little background you might be able to see why my first comment came out kind of wrong...
so it wasnt against you ....just life in general... Whats bad we had everything and now we will have nothing because of health and oil prices, My hubby was a operator/owner Semi truck driver... there were times we owed the company he leased on to because of the prices of diesel prices.... I can t believe it ...Diesel was suppose to be cheeper then gas.
I am glad that you really see now how it was suppose to come out!
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Fascinating thread. I can see that your son's specific situation has been resolved, but I agree with the comment about the time he could spend with his grandmother, which is not necessarily going to be available later.... Regarding the ethical dilemma, I also agree with the analogies--like the married woman--that illustrate the problem of where this "some people need the job more" thinking would end--aren't there always people who would need the job more?

I think college kids have to get out there into the job market. Recently I was going over work for applying to Yale University. They expect the students to have some sort of income to help pay a part of their tuition. I think this is great.
It is sad that people who are supporting families has to compete but that is just how it goes. May the most qualified candidate win.

Our youth need job experience. Great post.

Amanda bought up a really great point that I failed to realize.

My summers and even the last part of my school years were spent bouncing back and forth with taking care of my grandparents. My grandfather was in the early stages of Alzheimer's so they didn't need full time care, just a break for my grandmother who while mentally just great, physically couldn't keep up with him due to arthritis.

I swear, I learned the most vital things about my grandfather and life then. I was the only local grandkid, so I became, I don't know, the repository of knowledge. I learned things that even their kids didn't know. Also, because I was helping with the finances, I learned just how important a retirement plan and insurance is.

It was invaluable not only for my future common sense, but for the family tidbits that I learned. I wouldn't trade it for the world.

He needs the experience but it is sad if he is competing against seniors,
who also need the income.
If the option is open for him to come home, and maybe help out some around the house, no matter in what small way.....maybe that option is best.

Janet- Yes, I totally understand. A family who used to live down the street from us is in a tough situation like that, too, and I don't think they did a thing wrong. Life just changed on them, even though they were always hard workers....they lost a 20 year business and their home had to be sold at a huge loss and they aren't young so it is just a terrible situation for them. I honestly don't know how people in that age group make up for lost retirement savings and having to sell a home at a loss.

One of them has cancer and so they are living basically on social security checks and adjusting to a whole different lifestyle. It has been quite a shock. I do hope they make some changes to the health care system because I watched a relative get cancer and lose everything....first the house....then even the apartment. There were savings but the health costs took it all. We helped out by giving him one of our cars but we didn't have extra money to spare or even an extra room in the house, although he'd have been welcome to move in here anyway but the cancer took him too quickly. So I honestly understand about how tough things can get. I don't know how people plan for things like that, especially if they have been working hard, saving plenty and paying their health insurance premiums. When the man's wife died, he had to cover a liver transplant for her because they said liver transplants were an "experimental procedure" even though she needed one to stay alive! A virus attacked her liver suddenly, turning her into a liver transplant candidate nearly overnight. But when they are called "experimental" the family has to pay well over $500,000 and that takes a chunk right there!

I did want to add that we paid what we could of our relative's costs (meals, gas money, helping with rent because he didn't want to lose his independence) but there were limits to what we could afford. To his credit, he worked nearly till the end. Only when he had to go into a hospice did he stop trying to work hard. His dignity was so important to him.

Of course, he paid what he could afford, too, but he was still paying off that liver transplant for his wife when he got sick. Somehow, between our help and his earnings, he managed to stay off welfare and get by...barely...while going for cancer treatments.