The Holocaust is a myth!

At the risk of being totally blasted for telling an ugly truth:

The point is not whether "the Holocaust" happened. Very self-evidently, and tragically, it did. However, this does not make the Jews in any way unique or uniquely due reparation or revenge. Genocide is everywhere. Even in the German Nazi Holocaust, many more than Jews were tortured and killed.

While those who keep posting this email here on Gather after they've been pointed to debunking sites are clearly engaging in dishonesty, the origin of the story is not so much a lie but a typical urban legend that developed spontaneously from a kernel of truth. That kernel of truth was that in one single school district in Northern England (IIRC), the Holocaust was dropped from the list of exam topics, and the motivation was to avoid problems with Muslim students--not so much to avoid offending them, but to avoid offending everyone else and causing a major embarrassment if any Holocaust denial occurs on the part of some of the Muslims. Holocaust denial is, unfortunately, a very real phenomenon in the Muslim world, and the legend took off building on that. The one school district became the UK, and the UK became the University of Kentucky.

This email was not written by the person you are referring to. I received it in my home email and that person most certainly have my email address. It came from a source unrelated in any way to Gather. So while that person did publish it, I could see nothing this person wrote that said that they (this person) believed it was true. In fact, I believe the point of the article was in fact to ask what people thought about that message.

I am not sure what you posted, it does say that there were 3 comments posted. Maybe you misunderstood what the article was about. Maybe if you read it again you would see that it was just asking what people thought about the email itself and then the email was posted. The person to whom you refer did not say that they thought it was a myth.

Oh my goodness.

I don't care what the purpose for anyone sending such an email it is unintelligent to continue forwarding lies and untruths. That I do not get at all. I received numerous emails forwarded from a long line of people who were trying to get me to believe that Obama was not only muslim but might have had something to do with 9/11 and since of course he was the antichrist he was bad for America. I created a standard terse response for all those idiots whose self esteem was low enough to want to believe that and want others to do so as well. There are enough good and needed articles to forward to help folks learn something we do not need to waste precious time and effort on such utter nonsense.

You have tolove some of te crap that keeps getting put on here about these types of things, the maybe future president, the skin colors and religions of many people. My theory is that these people are so unhappy in their own lives and so unsure of who they are that they have to make themselves feel better by putting others down! I've had quite a few run ins with them lately. While it is fun to put them in their place and try to make them realize that they deal in fiction and not FACTS, think in the end it is futile! Because as I have become fond of saying, "you can't fill up an empty can if it has holes throughout and what you are putting in there just leaks back out!"

Chain letters suck.

Ohhhh Darling... Imagine if everyone DID check out these things before posting. Imagine if everyone was open-minded and smart enough to know that these are myths... What would you do then? : )

It wouldn't matter if the whole world checked Snopes and then let this particular person it was a hoax - she has a hate agenda and truth means nothing to her if she can smear as many of the objects of her hate as she can.

I did see the article, Wanda, and, I see it differently. If one posts something, one should make some effort to verify its veracity. Perhaps they were looking for validation or verification, but the deletion of the comments that debunked it argues that was not the case. Closing comments to all but friends, in fact, argues knowing the lack of veracity and wanting to promote a falsehood for one's own agenda.

Personally, I find that disgusting.

Yep, if her motives were as pure as Wanda says, all she had to do was put a 1-sentence disclaimer at the beginning. I agree with Stephanie.

Those that believe and expand this lie are nothing but mentally and emotionally corrupt individuals. Whether their efforts to perpetuate this ludicrous lie are driven by anti-Semitic views or some other extremist reason, it does not change the truth or history. In the long run and deep down, the Holocaust deniers do not believe their own deceptions, that is why they tend to try to censor those that refute and contradict their lunacy.

During the 20th Century, approx 230,000,000 civilians were killed in WWI, WWII, colonialism, and ethnic cleansing.

"Mother Nature is a smelly whore. "
...and yet, often enticing too! :)

"The point is not whether "the Holocaust" happened. Very self-evidently, and tragically, it did."
Actually . . . that IS the point! What's "Evident" to you is being denied by others even when the nose is shoved into the truth some of these lying little maggots continue to delete the truth in a deliberate attempt to CONCEAL the truth and encourage the hatred.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

"While those who keep posting this email here on Gather after they've been pointed to debunking sites are clearly engaging in dishonesty, the origin of the story is not so much a lie but a typical urban legend that developed spontaneously from a kernel of truth."

Yes, Aniko . . . ONE History Dept. in ONE District and for the same reasons another did not touch on the Crusades. A very interesting discussion is found at the www.Snopes.com Link I listed . . . . search "Holocaust" and you can clearly see that the entire article I referenced is only there to create fear, discord and hate. Why else would my comment be deleted?

"This email was not written by the person you are referring to. "
Well I know that . . . it's just being repeated by that person. Writing it would require some original thinking.

"I could see nothing this person wrote that said that they (this person) believed it was true."
You cannot be serious. This person only permits people to comment who are "Shocked" and unaware of the truth . . . while deleting my benign comment (listed in it's entirety above) that points out politely and calmly that this is not true. That means the agenda is that what has been reprinted should seem like it is the truth, and anti-muslim, which it certainly is not.

"I am not sure what you posted, it does say that there were 3 comments posted. "
Well, it's a simple matter to read MY article that has the full, unedited text of the comment that was deleted in quotes. 3 comments were deleted, not "posted". You can also check my deleted comments to find the same text should you need to verify.

"Maybe you misunderstood what the article was about. Maybe if you read it again you would see that it was just asking what people thought about the email itself and then the email was posted."
I didn't misunderstand anything. If the question was just asking what people thought then why was the truth deleted in my comment so people could not see it? Tell me what, if ANYTHING, was offensive about my comment that led to it (and others) being deleted when they pointed out the truth?

"The person to whom you refer did not say that they thought it was a myth. "
I didn't say the person DID believe it, but the person WANTS other people to believe the MYTH that the e-mail is true. It's not. It's THAT simple.

Cute name Pepsie! ;)

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Nicely spoken Spencer . . . and I cannot help but note you usually see this kind of thing coming from . . . shall we say "Right" field? :P

"Because as I have become fond of saying, 'you can't fill up an empty can if it has holes throughout and what you are putting in there just leaks back out!'"
You can't convince them (or anyone incapable of listening) but I'll not allow lies to go unchallenged.

"Chain letters suck."
Particularly the ones that espouse hate and lies instead of luck and fortune, eh?

"Imagine if everyone DID check out these things before posting. Imagine if everyone was open-minded and smart enough to know that these are myths... What would you do then? : ) "
Retire. :)

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

sadly, there are a large number of people in the world who still believe that the Holocaust didn't exist. they say it's a propaganda lie made up to frame the Nazis. and that all the photos are staged. seriously, i've had people tell this to my face.

some people rather remain in ignorance and spread lies than face the truth.

they also know that if they delete certain comments that they will get more page views from you and your friends when you post articles like this with links to their sites. that's actually their main objective here on gather you know.

i refused to click the link.

The things people post on Gather, and comments on other posts, say a lot more about their character than anything they put on their bio pages. I learned long ago that it's best to just skip any article by certain members. I prefer not to go to the articles at all, since page views translate to points. I really wish we had some kind of Ignore button so that the people we wished to ignore simply didn't show up on our alerts for posts to Groups.

There are a lot of folks who insist that the Holocaust is a myth. How they can do that is beyond me. Talk about ignoring the evidence.

One of the more eye-opening things I ever found about 'spin' was looking up Ilse Koch - The Bitch of Buchenwald and her trial. German historians insist that the US Army Intelligence fabricated the stories about her and framed her for war crimes. But then if you read the testimonies of the people who survived that horror, they can back up the Army's claims of her attrocities.

In so many cases, people will believe what is most palatable to them or what furthers their own agenda or ignorance.

"...she has a hate agenda and truth means nothing to her..."
She hates the truth, else why would she delete it?

"...argues knowing the lack of veracity and wanting to promote a falsehood for one's own agenda. "
Doesn't take a rocket scientist, eh?

Thanks Gary . . . beside the disclaimer, there would need to be a decision NOT to delete the truth when it pops up here and there.

Thanks Juan & Ron!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

It's ok CC . . . you don't need the link to know what I'm talking about. It's provided for those who require more than trust in my word! ;)

I would love an "ignore" button Ada! :)

True enough Niko!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

You can't fight lies with more lies and be morally superior. And, no, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that slippery slope.

Just sayin'.

If the Holocaust never happened, can someone tell me what happened to my maternal grandparent's side of the family?


Do you ever wonder what happens to a person to make them hate others so much? Do you ever wonder why some people are sheep, content to just follow along blindly?

Perhaps someone should send a plane ticket to Auschwitz to this person. I was unlucky enough to visit there on a tour of Poland. How do they explain the camps? The mass graves and remains? The eye-witness reports? The video and written testimonies of the librating armed forces?

These types of things just solidify my low opinion of people's general ignorance.

The same "person" and I use that term loosely, posted a hate Obama article. Well I would have just passed that up, but because someone I know posted a trying to reason with her comment, a horrible Obama cartoon picture showed up in my feed.

I commented to her and I swear, not being my usual snarky self said "I'm very disappointed in you for posting that picture".

She deleted my comment and sent me two nasty gathermails saying "YOU'RE THE NASTIEST PERSON ON GATHER EVERYONE HATES YOU"".

OOOOOh wow, hurt me.

This is one of the nice things and conversely most awful things about a site like this. Generally, there is a free exchange of ideas and opinions and MOST people are rational and can even disagree with civility. However, there are a few folks who have found this site and use it as a platform to screech and scream hatred.

Kinda reminds me of that Ron White bit:

"I was on the debate team in high school. Once during a debate, I looked at the other guy and said F******K you...I thought I won!"

That is how some people "debate" on Gather. How delightfully junior high!

You know Nick . . . more to the point is they don't even get the phuck you . . . they turn off the microphone of the other debater and then annoint themselves the 'Master Debater' and it's exactly what it sounds like PLUS duhhhhh! :P

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

""YOU'RE THE NASTIEST PERSON ON GATHER EVERYONE HATES YOU""."

OMG! It IS Jr. High! Did you tell her her mother was fat? Huh? Did ya'? Huh? Well?
You DO know not everyone hates you right? Some people are just plain nutszo and don't even know you exist so she's just a big, fat lying liar. I've seen nastier people too . . . which makes her more of a lying liar. These things usually lead to a exchange of views on the old P.E. fields, eh? LoL!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Doyle - she cut me, really - OOOOOOOOHHHHH

""YOU'RE THE NASTIEST PERSON ON GATHER EVERYONE HATES YOU""."

At least you know how to punctuate, Darling!

wtf?!?!?? the holocaouts is so real it will blow ur pants off

There is a notorious Holocaust denier on the lecture circuit who says Hitler was not responsible for Auschwitz, had no idea what was going on there behind his back, and would have been totally against it if someone would have clued him in.

Yup.

Doyle, your comment had to be deleted, since the link to snopes proved that the author had contributed nothing of substance to the so-called "article" being published. Reprinting anything found online verbatim, and then adding a "Comments, anyone?" seems like an awfully tawdry way to score some points.

True enough Beaker . . . clip and paste the internet. Although, it does make it possible to avoind using that atrophied little mind altogether. :P

"At least you know how to punctuate, Darling! "
But I hides it gooder than you does! :P

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Did you read my comment, Doyle? If so, did it sound like I wasn't familiar with the discussion on snopes.com?

I don't disagree about the motivation of the poster here. I wanted to point out that as a typical legend, it's based on something--and that something is not willful fabrication, but the kind of distortion that occurs naturally when people repeat stories that somehow speak to them. I've been following stories of this kind for some time--I've been a member of the Mikkelson's mailing list for years.

Doyle , this F*&%ing place sucks worse every day!!!!

Some people are so full of hate that they go around blasting one group after another, Islamists (many are moderate), Jews (Yes, the Holocost was real, Virginia. My apoligies to all Virginias.) Black and/or Islamic (Obabma had a black Islamic father. Obama is not Islamic, but some people would like you to think so, because he is half black and Islam is the favorite group to hate since 9/11.), women (Hilary Clinton got alot of stay in the kitchen and an actual, "Iron my shirt." poster.) Do I have to go on? My apologies to all groups that were left out. They are just too numerous to mention. Love and Peace.

Pretty typical of fundies that like to forward the anti-choice, anti-Obama, anti-gay agenda. NONE of my liberal friends forward this type of unsubstantiated garbage.

I know there are those who prefer myths and legends to guide their lives because it relieves them of the responsibility of thinking. I just find it easier to think for myself. I prefer to make an idjit of myself because I made a mistake rather than be a lemming and fall to my death.

"Did you read my comment, Doyle? If so, did it sound like I wasn't familiar with the discussion on snopes.com?"

Aniko I have no idea where you information was derived from. You didn't mention it. My intention was to point out that the source I cited agrees with you . . . not to make you somehow defensive. I have respect for you and didn't mean to insinuate anything negative.

"Doyle , this F*&%ing place sucks worse every day!!!! "
Nahhhh! Wait till the November whining starts. It's not the place . . . it's SOME of the people (a vocal minority at best). Where else can you verbally bitch-slap these lying bobble-heads and expose their cowardly ways?

Wow. Nice comment Yvonne!

Thank you Shannon!

Grems . . . your icon makes you seem young but I never cease to be amazed by your comments! Some of these types would MUCH rather die than to be considered idiots. They prove it daily.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

Doyle, I wasn't being defensive. Perhaps I misread the "new information" vs. "mentioned before" dynamics in your response. :-)

Still, my point was that while there seems to be a conscious smear campaign against Muslims, the part about Holocaust denial being common in some Muslim countries is unfortunately true.

Okay, Doyle....so, ignore my comment. *sigh*

Sheryl . . . stop your "*sigh*ing. Lainie cornered that market. Your comment fails to see the distinction here. The author believes the Holocaust happened. She is trying to perpetrate a fraud that Britian is not teaching it because Muslims do not. So . . . you see . . . there's nobdy to send to the camps because it just isn't true what she wrote. ;)

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

" Lainie cornered that market."

Absolutely, I did!

I could not access the original article through the link you provided, so I really don't know what it said or implied. I was inferring from your article. Sorry - got it wrong, I guess. (no sigh)

No problem Sheryl . . . Intriguing . . . the article still shows and Duckie said it wasn't true too and Duckie's comment STILL stands. wtf? Anyway . . . always good to see ya'! :)

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

"Anyway . . . always good to see ya'! :):

So, go visit my recent articles and comment! Give me some triple points, why don't ya?

what people did this? is it anti-Obama political stuff or what? It's an election year and if its political, here on gather it will likely just get worse, far worse. Most of what passes for debate here is simply name calling and kiddie taunts....

It's anti-Muslim Charles . . . aside from the anonymity of the source it's clearly aimed at slowing down the juggernaut known as Barack HUSSEIN Obama.

Done Sheryl!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~

God is omnipotente, omnisciente and good!
God could not be the three things.
If he will be omnipotente and omnisciente, then it has knowledge of the evil all and power to finish with it, still thus does not make it. It is not good.
If omnipotente will be and good, then it has to be able to extingir the evil and wants to make it, therefore it is good. But it does not know how much badly it exists.
If omnisciente will be and good, then it knows all of the evil and wants to change it. But this eliminates the possibility of being omnipotente, therefore if it it was eradicated the evil.

1 god created the logical man
2 gods wants that man uses logic
3 gods dos not wants that man venerate god
4 religious people are enemy of god

that explaines explaines the west islam and china