Eye of the Beholder
I once got into a multi-day debate with a friend about beauty. We were arguing various angles of our respective positions; me, the rock, and he, the flower. He defended the soft, magnificently hued petals as supreme; while I on the other hand claimed the everlasting form. We went through countless examples of each from roses and orchids to diamonds and marbles. When we had exhausted all conceivable qualities, we realized that we were at an impasse and withdrew from the debate forum. Each just as convinced that what they had defended was the superior.
As a writer, what is beauty and more importantly should you dictate your own views on to the reader. In fact, do you detail pertinent characteristics to a point that the reader is merely observing or do you allow space for the reader to inject their own perceptions of beauty, strength, evil, weakness, and other physical manifestations. How much detail is too much?
And is this simply once again telling rather than showing?
rate
email
print
link to this page
Comments: 310
I'm #1 again. Ha!
I haven't had enough coffee to answer this question, however. Except to say that in my own writing, I tend to think of beauty in terms of how the prose itself is crafted and balanced, not the subject or object I'm describing and whether it is beautiful or not.
Good morning Queen Lisa, feeling better I hope?
Of the rocks, I collected all of these from California, Del Mar Beach the north end. One of my favorite things. I have a whole basket of rocks/minerals. The orchids are mine as you've all probably noticed before. INFO dump complete. Carry on.
I love rocks. Not to study, just to marvel at.
As for beauty, thats a tough one. No one will be terribly surprised to learn that to me nothing is more beautiful than a lovely woman. But I have never learned how to get that across in writing. Slender, oval shaped face, none of these descriptions really works.
Perhaps thats because for me, beauty in women is more than physical appearance. It is the quality of a smile, the glint in the eye, the moment of blushing and the downward glance. And of course, that feeling when she looks into your eyes, and you can see all the way down deep, because she is letting you in.
Ahemmm. Sorry. Got a bit carried away there. As you were.
a gentle curve of the jaw...
soft, uncompressed lips...
sleek, gazelle-like legs
wide-open luminous eyes reflecting an eagerness for life
I have been thinking of a writing exercise for just that. Write a description of a person, convey physical qualities yet don't close the door for the reader. Transcending race, culture, and age to provide an image that each reader can then "personalize" for lack of a better term.
And of course, I will steal a few minutes to look at photos of Italy. Simon, I'm so glad you finally got a camera! I just knew you'd enjoy it!
Well, okay, here goes...
Sia, so sorry! *HUGS*
Dale, I'll try to get to your story, but I make no promises, still a crazy week.
And we just found out that DH has to fly to Chicago on Monday and will be gone for 2 weeks (he's going to be training his new underlings). So if I'm a bit snappish next week and the week after, I apologize in advance.
I like the beauty discussion. As a reader, I think it's annoying when people shove their ideas of beauty (or anything else for that matter) on me. *ahem* Ken
I like when I get a raw description of something and then a character's response to it. That way I can see what they see, make my own decision on it's beauty, and also learn about the character in seeing how they react to the description. It lets me know how the character sees beauty without it being shoved down my throat.
Did I miss something. Or are you just being Beaker. Of course in contrast we have the Sweet Seductress of the South.
Anybody seen Jamie? Oh Jamie!!! stop working for goodness sakes.
BTW, could someone explain the points thing? I never actually got it. You can use them to buy stuff? How?
First we have our host, Vivian The Vivacious Vixen of Verisimilitude.
Meanwhile to continue with the Beaker inspired game, let us not forget
Sylvia - The Sensual Sylph of Serendipity
Beaker, I agree. Though the older fables leave the telling to the end. They show the story and then give the Look Before you Leap line. I think a summary for young children is useful to clarify what they have read.
A lot of those tales are old oral storytelling and you wonder how much was condensed and simplified when people like the Brothers Grim wrote them down. [Another fine example of nationalism, weaving inherently different "states" together through the shared stories of what would become Germany.]
The Breathtaking Belle of Benchmarks
Please, don't make me say anything about Simon, the Seductive, Sultan of Satire (alternate spelling: satyr)
There has been lots of scholarship done on the transformation of what were somtimes pretty raunchy or rought folk tales into childrens fairy tales. Grimm was an exception, because of, as you said, a political agenda.
I used to hear Russian "fairy tales" as a child. Talk about age inappropriate.
Meanwhile I am still looking for Jamie, The Jaunty Jewel of Joy
Dana, The Dangerous Dame of Detection
The Lovely Lady of Luster
Rachael The Remarkable Ray of Reason
Beaker, be patient. I'm sure Simon is just working himself up for round two. HINT...Hint Simon
When the reader approaches an image you are creating either they can accept it or reject it. IF, we dictate concepts like beauty in a way that are not universal don't we alienate the reader?
I think I caught Sy's internet woes. My home connection is being iffy at best.
Just woke up from a nap and am contemplating another. I'm zonked.
JK (Beaker) The Brazen Blessing of Being
:)
I didnt forget you. Its just that S is so easy.
You are (clearly) The Super Saint of Scholarship
There are god terms= good, and devil terms= bad. Do we use the terms or describe the action that portrays these terms/concepts?
OK OK, Im going to bed. Good night. Please erase this thread tomorrow Vivian. Beauty. Sheeeesh.
Vivian, personally, I need a bit of physical description. Height, hair color, eyes, basic shape. I descibe those things through the other character's eyes, and perhaps through their emotions/reactions to a character. For instance, I have a description of a portrait of my villain. The heroine, looking at it, says "the artist must have fallen a little in love with her. Everyone did." I go on to descibe the villain's physical appearance, as seen throught the eyes of the artist (the pearlescent paint used to portray her shoulders, for instance.) Hopefully, the reader picks up on her basic seductive quality, without me saying more. And really, do I want the reader to think she's beautiful? Or do I want the reader to understand that my characters thought her beautiful, through the filter of their definitions?
Plato
Aristotle
Parker
Plotinus
Thomas Aguanis
Maritian
Shaftsbury
Hegel
Basanquet
Croce
Schopenhauer
Nietche ---ECT
Mini rant- Nietzche was an idiot. Done.
Pat, I like a brief introduction with physical characteristics, but I don't want the writer to constantly be reminding me what he/she looks like. Once I enter the story I'll ignore the details incongruent to me and morph the characters into representations of my own mind's making.
I think this is why movies so often meet with failure when based upon books. For each person who has read it has conceptualized the book's "world" differently, and no single visual representation will please. Also why graphic horror movies aren't scary. Allowing us to imagine the horror is far more powerful than telling us.
- Ken Coffman
(c) 2008 Dan Brown
As for the connotation of words going into how people perceive things...ancient religion has the same definitional/connotational issues. "Cult" is used to describe ancient non-Abrahamic faiths, but lately has become an "ugly" word. It's happened with other words that used to be innocuous but have since taken on connotations which have completely altered the meaning.
Okay, work's out, and I'm off!
Which branch of philosophy are you speaking from Paul? Perhaps that would give me better clarification.
Running out be back, play nice.
Wonton Western Woman works much better for me.
Viv I like your questions.. I don't push physical description. I like the reader to be able to fill things in on their own. As for the words, good, bad.. beautiful and so on. My characters have inner dialog on this especially about each other (romance) otherwise I describe the scene the reader can think it beautiful or not.
Off to get Pixie Princess.
Anyway, to address the title, all the concepts of beauty (physical, spiritual, etc.) are really in the eye of the beholder. And I maintain, the reader, the observer of the action, is not the beholder. For instance, if the work is sci-fi, the "beautiful" creature may have 4 eyes, purple skin, and the standard of beauty may be determined by whether they have an even or an odd number of tentacles. It's like that episode of an old show, maybe Twilight Zone? Conventially beautiful woman wakes up in a world of pig people. Or like the Munsters. The daughter was considered handicaped by her looks, because they did not conform to what was considered the norm in that family.
And Pat is right. If you read Clan of the Cave Bear (Sy is excluded from this comment), Ayla thought she was ugly the entire time she was with the Neanderthals and couldn't believe anyone would find her attractive. Then she met a Homo sapien (Jondalar) and beheld a new beauty. It's true that people often find others who look the most like themselves the most attractive.
Jamie, is it in most instances true? Or do opposites attract? I thought there was actually some research that showed that people select mates that have slightly different qualities than themselves, thus ensuring genetic diversity. Have to think about where I remember that from- really foggy. This brain search will take awhile.
Head hurts!
Scent. YES Jamie! That is the clue. Is their also a relationship between saliva? Tasting sweet( not because of diabetes)?
I thought that form of opposites was that we were seeking the quality that we lacked in order to become more complete. Thus a shy person loves the audacious extrovert, because they covet that quality.
Zolog and Xmerp. My first sci-fi names. I'm rather proud of them!
June be glad: I'm a lively, sexy liar/fake, depends on your intrepretation of verisimilitude. I'll take it.
I should be going to volleyball this evening, waiting on DH. Have fun in the sandbox and no throwing sand. Check back in a bit.
Jamie, hope you feel better soon. No dragging out of headaches.
I'm loving this discussion but I need to head home. Got my brakes done--yeah for economic stimulus dollars. Can I spend any more money or do I need to pay down the debt? Yeah, that's what I thought. Pay some bills.
Jill fabulous news on the house! Keeping my fingers crossed for you. This is so exciting!
Beth, paying down debt is a good thing. Those dollars go into somebody's pocket eventually, and you have more in your own.
See ya later Viv!