by Paul T. Mason, M.S. & Randi Kreger
~ WEDNESDAY 7pm EASTERN time ~
JUNE 4th, 2008
TONIGHT'S TOPIC:
Pages 58 - 65 . . .
Tag, You're It:
A Game of Projection
[Extreme Defense Mechanisms]
Our BOOK STUDY TOPIC for this evening recommended by Renda
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Tag, You're It: A Game of Projection
Some people with BPD who act out may use a more complicated type of defense mechanism -- we've named it "Tag, You're It" -- to relieve their anxiety, pain, and feelings of shame. It's more complex because it combines shame, splitting, denial, and projection. ~ SEE Page 58
BE SURE TO READ Page 57: Extreme Defense Mechanisms
Like everyone else, people with BPD use defense mechanisms. Defense mechanisms are unconscious processes that protect people from anxiety and painful ideas or impulses. People with BPD, however, use some of them more frequently and with much greater intensity than most of us.
DENIAL ~ is one common defense mechanism. For example, a family member may deny that the behavior of a person with BPD is out of the ordinary.
Rationalization ~ is another common defense mechanism. Some family members use rationalization to explain a BP's behavior ~ for example, "He's just acting this way because he's so stressed out at work."
It is possible that some people with BPD developed these intense defense mechanisms early in life, when they were useful in warding off fear, shame, and other negative emotions. In adulthood, however, these strategies do not work anymore because it prevents the BP from confronting and conquering their fears. It is hard, however, to give up rationalization and other copying mechanisms because they have become so automatic and they worked in the past.
SPLITTING ~ People with BPD may have a hard time seeing gray areas. To them, people and situations are all black or white, wonderful or evil. This process of splitting serves as another defense mechanism.
Peter, who has BPD, explains: "Dividing the world into good or evil makes it easier to understand. When I feeel evil, that explains why I am the way I am. When you are evil, that explains why I think bad things about you."
______________________
ABOUT PROJECTION . . .
"Tag, You're It: A Game of Projection"
TAG is a fun game for a six-year-old. But it is not a game for people with BPD. Lacking a clear sense of who they are, and feeling empty and inherently defective, people with BPD feel like "it" all the time. Others seem to run away from them, which is lonely and excruciatingly painful. So BORDERLINES cope by trying to "tag" someone else. This is called PROJECTION.
PROJECTION is denying one's own unpleasant traits, behaviors, or feelings by attributing them (often in an accusing way) to someone else.
PROJECTION is described on page 58 by an Interviewee with BPD as this . . .
"Projection is like gazing at yourself in a hand-held mirror. When you think you look ugly, you turn the mirror around. Voila! Now the homely face in the mirror belongs to somebody else."
Sometimes the PROJECTION is an exaggeration of something that has a basis in reality. For example, the BORDERLINE may accuse you of "hating" them when you just feel irritated. Sometimes the PROJECTION may come entirely from their imagination: for example, they accuse you of flirting with a salesclerk when you were just asking for directions to the shoe department.
The BP's unconscious hope is that by projecting this unpleasant stuff onto another person ~ by tagging someone else and making them "it" ~ the person with BPD will feel better about themselves. And they do feel better, for a little while. But the pain comes back. So the game is played again and again.
PROJECTION also has another purpose: your loved one unconsciously fears that if you find out they are not perfect, you will abandon them. They live in constant terror that you will discover the person behind the curtain. PROJECTING the negative traits and feelings onto you is a way to keep the curtain closed and redirect your attention on the perfect image they have tried to create for themselves.
Your task is to examine what the person with BPD is saying and determine whether or not they have an accurate point. Remember, not everything is PROJECTION. But, if the BORDERLINE IS PROJECTING, you need to stop playing the game and decline to be "it" in a respectful way.
WE WILL DISCUSS HOW THE GAME IS PLAYED next week (Page 59-65).
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FOR TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION:
After reading the above, can you identify someone in your life who uses "PROJECTION"?
Do you think the person has a Borderline Personality Disorder?
Can you give us some examples?
Can you add any additional input to this topic of "PROJECTION"?
THE DISCUSSION/BOOK STUDY can begin at any time. You may post your content when ready.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING IN WITH US THIS EVENING!
~ Artistic Therapy Gather Group ~
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Comments: 75
Blessings ~
Rene
Allen's brother (referring to him as M.) gets very irate. During conversations between Allen and M., M will say things such as..."if you aren't going to listen, then I'm just going to hang up", "you're always judging me", "you think you're so much better than me".
The last conversation they had, M. did end up hanging up on Allen and Allen has pretty much "washed his hands of it". He (Allen) says that he will be polite when he HAS to have contact with M (which they do have since they are related), but M. doesn't need to call anymore.
M. also has cussed his parents out and said things such as, "you're spying on me. I'm not doing anything wrong. Why can't you all just leave me alone?" And then he will contact them a few days later being "nice".
As for the person from the church that is attempting to help him, M. does not talk rudely or anything to him...but he does downgrade him and put him down to others.
But in the case of the person from the Church that is attempting to help him, he does not exhibit BP behavior with him, only behind his back. Which says that he is very aware of what he is doing. He knows not to act the way he acts with Allen as he does with the Church member.
Thank you for the explanation. I can understand how someone may act one way with a person (or people) he/she is familiar with...while acting totally different with those they may not be "close" to.
From what I understand, M. has been this way for a very long time. He has been married before and I asked Allen what happened with the marriage. He says that there are several "stories" to it.
I take it that "M" is the younger brother?
Rene, I can understand that. I'm sure there's always been sibling rivalry and feel that it has escalated to more...because of the fussing, etc between the two.
Renda ~ has Allen found that to be true with his brother. Does he feel that his brother was spoiled, and/or got away with more than he did?
I totally agree. I had just told Allen this last night and he says he feels stuck in the middle (hearing his mom and feeling as he does about M's behavior).
He feels that M. shouldn't be allowed chance after chance and Allen gets upset when he hears his parents upset from something M. has said or done. He gets even angrier when he hears that M. has been "forgiven" and that he was just having a "bad day". ~ Renda
This is a classic case of what is mentioned upon in the opening to our BOOK STUDY -- "denial" ~ M's Mom is in denial about his behavior.
Have there been times when she (Mom) has disconnected from "M"? Maybe not been so available for the drama to continue?
"Unfortunately, the book was mentioned to her (by Allen) and she "researched the book" on the net and told Allen he couldn't believe everything he read, especially since the author was not a "doctor". ~ Renda
I see where we are with Mom. She is in denial and for some reason feels a need to cover up for "M".
The Authors . . .
Unfortunately, from reading the book we can see how this is a cycle that will just be repeated (and can become worse than just harsh words). As long as someone makes excuses for the behavior, and does not hold the person accountable for his/her actions, the person will just keep up with the behavior.
SEE the back cover of the book for this information.
"I do not think M realizes that happiness has to be found within first and no one can make you happy until you've made yourself happy." ~ Renda
That is so TRUE Renda.
alcohol and anger issues.
Has "M" had any anger managment classes or therapy for his anger issues?
Has he went into a program for alcohol abuse?
"Unfortunately, from reading the book we can see how this is a cycle that will just be repeated (and can become worse than just harsh words). As long as someone makes excuses for the behavior, and does not hold the person accountable for his/her actions, the person will just keep up with the behavior." ~ Renda
The cycle has to stop somewhere. The Mom (although I doubt if she will) needs to disconnect from "M" for a while. And, she should tell "M" why. That his behavior will not be tolerated. "M" can be mad about it if he wants to, but he will just have to get over it. Apron strings.
Another good suggestion that you made was giving them all a copy of "Codependent No More" for his parents. -- include "M" too. It is an excellent book. I have this one too.
I am going this weekend and buying the books for them.
He definitely needs an alcohol program that covers anger management, and as you have said, a traditional more extensive program would be more beneficial.
When you have time I have a couple of more questions that are related to the subject, but not the examples I gave. Maybe you or Randi can provide some insight into the questions.
Here in the book it is called, "Tag, You're It: A Game of Projection".
I call it "DRAMA untamed".
"She has decided that after M's surgery (hip surgery) in the middle of this month, that M is going to stay with them to recuperate. I have a bad feeling about this and have expressed it to Allen. I'm afraid the "crap is going to hit the fan" during this time." ~ Renda
It will. And it will because enough people standing watching want a change to occur. And, because of the thoughts of some of the people involved, the CHANGE will occur! It may not be pleasant from the outset, but it will BE.
"Your title is perfect for this! It is untamed and until a person realizes it the animal is never tamed" ~ Renda
The Anger Management Workbooks that you have will help too.
We'll end our Discussion for now, and leave this BOOK STUDY OPEN for anyone who would like to add to it. Is that fine with you Renda?
Thank you, Rene. That's fine with me. I need to get up and cook soon. This has been a great discussion.
Georgiana ~ This BOOK STUDY will stay OPEN for you and anyone else who would like to add to it. I just have an appointment to go to right now. I will come back to this BOOK STUDY thread later.
She said one day whe he knocked on her bedroom door she actually looked to see if he had something harmful in his hand and we knew we had to do something.
We had to pull some string but got him into a home as a ward of the court.
We weren't helping him at home. We actually took him up one night and dropped him off at the juvenile hall and signed him in. Mom, Dad, Blaine and myself crying all the way there. We went home and they called us to come back and get him. Daughter said no. He needed help. They said the prosecuting attorney would take them to court.
Daughter called the prosecuting attorney the next day and told her what they had done and that a social worker had suggested it as Mom and Dad felt there was danger. The Prosecuting Attorney said don't worry, he would not press charges.
But this may help some parents out there. Later, when we talked to the police they told us that as soon as we saw that he needed someone bigger than us to control him; we should have called them at the next destruction of property and pressed charges. That would have gotten him into a system that was bigger and stronger than he was. Then we could love him through 'bars' so to speak.
Anyway ... for those of you that have frightening problems with children ... let me tell you that those places controlled him better than we could. He graduated with good grades but only because there were big people there that could wrestle him to the groud and put him in a straight jacket. Meanwhile we visited and wrote and had a good relationship with him. Don't let a child tear your family apart.
Don't get a complex. We thought maybe you got abducted or something ~ ahaha!
Your post is interesting, and your thoughts are right on the money or the mark or the button. I like what you've said, and how you've summed up the specific problem-child issue that you experienced . . .
"He graduated with good grades but only because there were big people there that could wrestle him to the ground and put him in a straight jacket. Meanwhile we visited and wrote and had a good relationship with him. Don't let a child tear your family apart." ~ Glome
Your issue is different, because the child you were describing you did not raise from birth . . . But, I believe that too many parents are afraid of their children; are afraid that they will get in trouble if they discipline them; and in some respects really only pay attention when their child acts like a terror.
Personally, I believe in old-fashioned spankings. They worked when I was coming up. I'm still living and breathing. I am not talking about abuse, I am talking about an old-fashioned spanking. I am not talking about belts, switches off trees either. I am talking about an old-fashioned spanking. By the time the child is 8, you don't need to ever spank them again. Because by now, they know not to misbehave. Then you talk to them sternly and seriously if you have a problem with them. And it works. When a child gets to the age of ten years old and you have raised them properly, then you can talk to your child and probably learn more from them than they can from you. Because you've done a good job paying attention.
I don't understand how people expect to have intelligent well mannered children when they do not pay attention. When they let their two and three year old scream at the top of their lungs, fall out in the floor, and act like they see nothing and hear nothing. And, some parents even act as if the child is causing them distress. Well . . . stop letting your child act like that. You're the adult. Don't act as if your are clueless. Time for that child to eat, go to sleep, and you let your child know that all of the madness has to stop, and that all that screaming and falling out just won't be happening (period).
If you continue to let your child act in this manner, by the time the child gets to be five, they are slapping adults, hitting adults, tearing things up like they don't have good sense, and basically acting like little monsters. . . WHY? Because they were not disciplined when they were two and three years old. So when they get to be in their teens, then they are hell on two legs, and the parents act as if they don't understand what is wrong with their child. Well ~ NEWSFLASH!!! ~ The parents were not paying attention, and they were not doing their parental duties.
You cannot tell me that a child comes into this world bad. They don't. They have stages of development wherein they act in certain ways. When you understand childhood psychology, then parents are able to do a better job raising their children. When they are going through the stage where they fall out in the floor, and cry, and scream because they can't have their way, then you figure out whether they are hungry, sleepy, tired, sick, or just cranky. Then you feed them, put them to bed, sit them down, or talk to them and find out what is wrong with them, take them to the doctor, and let them know that their behavior is not appropriate and can be resolved. Two or Three year old style. Some parents know how to make discipline fun. That's another topic. Creativity. Some children are bored to tears tagging along with parents or having nothing fun to do. I'd be cranky too!
The BPD adults that we are discussing are the children that exhibit the same behavior patterns, just all grown up on the outside, but not at all changed on the inside.
From my point of view, BPD behavior stems from unresolved childhood issues and behavior patterns ~ repackaged and unrefined.
It is good to bring up children in this Discussion Glome, because they too have their own set of issues in relation to personality development. Thank you for turning our focus to the children.
I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts ~ (lol).
Blessings ~
Rene
After that, the BOOK STUDY stays OPEN for posts. People can still post, and whoever comes in next to add to the Discussion can, and answer any questions asked in the Discussion that they see. You know, like we did our very first Discussion ~ "What is Borderline Personality Disorder?"
Here is the link for those who missed it . . .
VIEW DISCUSSION HERE
Hope you come back Cassandra and add your input here!
Blessings ~
Rene
His biological Mom was an alcoholic & took drugs and his dad was on drugs.
Thank you rene. I'm not sure that BPD kids get out of control but I believe some of them most surely do.
I am sorry that I missed you yesterday Rene'. I laid down and took a nap that lasted a little longer than I meant to sleep.. I will catch you all next time. Renda I agree with Rene' that this is going to get worse after his surgery. Putting him back in the mix with his family will probably open the perverbial can of worms. Sounds like Mom is in denial. This is such a difficult thing to deal with. But she needs to understand that she is only enabling him.. I hope that she will read the book. Maybe it will set her mind at ease. Because for M this is normal but for everyone else he is just projecting and is in denial. Trying to spin it off on someone else is Classic Borderline behavior.
Well I hope to be here next week. You all had interesting things to contribute. Thank you Rene' for doing this Book Study. It is very good work.
Love
Karen
BPDCentral was the site i found several years ago,.... wow.. SEVERAL years ago when I started researching the problem.. I has interesting, if sometimes conflicting info.
I put that mildly by saying, "trying" situations and circumstances -- when in fact, in some cases, they have literally been through hell.
And, yes, BPD children DO get out of control, just like the ADULTS. And, in many cases, they have BPD parents. But there are other diagnosis as well for some of the children that you have dealt with in the welfare system. These children have been traumatized in the worst way. Can you imagine a life like that where you cannot free yourself on your own because you are a child?
I have seen children that have been so abused, so mistreated, so neglected that they have in fact been demonically possessed. And, if people do not think that demons exists and can possess a person, they are absolutely WRONG. They CAN, and they DO. I have seen it with my own two eyes. And the other people who witnessed it along with me did not necessarily believe in demons, or that anything like that was possible. But you can bet that they DID after they saw what they saw.
Thanks for commenting back Glome. I'd like to hear more about the children. When you have a moment, let us know if you had any cases where the children you came in contact with had any of the symptoms we've listed here in the Group related to BPD.
Blessings ~
Your Friend,
Rene
Blessings ~
Your Friend,
Rene
Thank you too for looking into the example that Renda provided us with. M's Mom is definitely in denial and playing the game that we were discussing here, "Tag, You're It: A Game of Projection"
"M", on the other hand, is so used to playing this game that he really believes in his mind that he has mastered the game. He's running "game". That would be my way of describing him.
If you have ever seen a con artist at work, or a liar who is always trying to get over on people, then you can also relate that behavior to what we are talking about here.
I call this behavior "DRAMA UNTAMED" because to me, that is exactly what it is. People who consistently and consciously create DRAMA in their lives, and get so used to doing so, that they don't know when to STOP. If anyone ever saw the movie, "Fun with Dick and Jane", there is a line in there where Jane tells Dick to, "Cut the Crap!". And he stops his ridiculous antics. I think of this line when I think of Borderline Personalities and all the DRAMA they create. And, don't think for one minute that some of them do not know exactly what they are doing. They are manipulators. And, in most cases premeditate everything they do. I really think that it is a behavior pattern that has never been broken. And, if you try using the Fun with Dick and Jane line, it sometimes works. Even if only momentarily. Sometimes, habits are hard to break. That is my take on it.
Underneath the Borderline Personality is extreme insecurity. In some cases, jealousy, envy, bitterness and resentment. And for them, the only way to be happy is to make the ones that caused them the perceived pain MISERABLE ~ at all costs. It gets to "ALL EYES ON ME" ~ "Pay attention to ME ~ Just ME." ~ That is what the Borderline Personality asks of anyone involved with them.
While the people involved with them are jumping hoops to keep them from reigning havoc on everyone, everywhere, the Borderline is content with the DRAMA they have created. And finds plenty of creative ways to justify their behavior. Usually, the best they offer is, "It's your fault!" ~ ANGER and UNFORGIVENESS IS A MONSTER!
Glome came in here to the BOOK STUDY one evening and said she was late because she had SBS. I laughed so hard! It means, "Scattered Brain Syndrome". . . .
Bringing this up to say that there seems to be more and more labels for everything, and Glome just brought that point home with her comment.
This is not to make light of people who are diagnosed with various mental illnesses. It is not at all a laughing matter, and I do not mean for it to sound that way. But, after dealing with enough Borderline Personalities I've just gotten to the place where I want to tell them all to just "Cut the Crap!" . . .
They disrupt their households, cause havoc and emotional harm to friends, family and co-workers, and at some point, somebody needs to tell them to, "Cut the Crap!" Get yourself together, get some help, and STOP intruding on my space.
Believe it or not, this sometimes works very well. It is called, Artistic Therapy. Give them some pens and paper, some Journals, some canvases and paints, and allow the Borderline Personality to write it out, paint it out, draw it out, sing it out, compose music, take Acting classes, create some Plays, and just work it out! . . .
WE may end up with more useful creations in the world. If some people would stop playing and procrastinating and just get to their "callings". Many Borderline Personalities would make EXCELLENT Authors, Actors, Actresses, Musicians, Singers, Playwrights, Poets -- and I am oh so serious about it. And, you'll find that most of them think that they have no purpose. I beg to differ. Send them to a Screening or a Casting Call, and . . .
It is truly amazing how being in artistic mode has a way of making one forget about all of the various labels. In artistic mode a person tends to display their GENIUS, and there is no time to go back to the way things were. Once matters have been captured in artistic mode ~ people tend to move on to the next creation. And, we all must remember, no one else can be present in the process. They only get to see the completed works. So, if anyone has anything to say, it tends not to have the same effect -- THE WORK IS DONE -- like it or not -- DONE. No blame there.
Thanks Karen!
Blessings ~
Rene
Tell us what the conflicting information was that you found on BPD Central. Your comments may help Randi Kreger.
And, what was the helpful information that you found?
We'd all like to know, so that way we can chime in.
Blessings ~
Rene
10 4 u!
Thanks for the "10"!
Blessings ~
Rene