David Gerrold, a science fiction writer, is presenting this discussion. He doesn't know that he is; I only know him through his book, Worlds of Wonder. Although it is a book on how to write science fiction and fantasy, it's a good reference for those of us who want to take our writing to another level. He not only explains certain concepts better than anyone I've ever read (such as, "The name of the game is Hurt the Hero! Why? Because if he doesn't hurt, why should we care?"); he also philosophizes about writing. ("What you write has an effect on the people who read it. Words have meaning, ideas have consequences.")
And he poses questions worth pondering:
As a human being, you make a difference. Simply by existing, simply by being in the room you make a difference. What kind of difference do you want to make as a writer?
Your book, your story, your script -- whatever you write -- that's your way of challenging the world. What do you want to say to the rest of your species?
How do you take readers someplace else and make them glad they went?
How do you create an experience of another life so vivid and compelling that for the moment it exists in the mind, it obscures and obliterates the reader's own life?
How do you transport human consciousness into the realm of exhilaration and transformation?
How can you get so deeply into the story that you are telling it from the inside?
The group No Whine, Just Champagne will be discussing these questions during our Live Chat on Thursday, June 5, 2008 at 9:00pm ET. Please come and tell us what you think.
If you have a topic you would like to discuss, please let me know. If you would like to host a discussion, please contact me. And if you have agreed to host, when you are ready let me know.
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Comments: 147
Those questions do make a lot of sense for writing a story.
Thanks for the information too!
I am currently co-creating a potential novel with the central character. She is telling her story. I am moving the pen. I am learning ever so much from her.
I wish you all a great discussion...take care everyone!
Thanks again Pat you come up with some great topics.
You have to believe with certainty in your characters and in their journeys and be willing to take all their leaps, even if you get exhausted and scrath your head muttering now how I going to get out of this jam and where's it taking me.
Oh, yeah. I forgot. I'm just the surrogate host!
I'm pondering!
My goal is to provide an escape for my reader. Life is crazy and hectic. I want my stories to provide a moment of quiet enjoyment, alright maybe a couple hours.
I also have a deep sociology piece that is just in the thought stage and will be many years until it is ready to be born. This is the piece that is suppose to make readers think an reevaluate their perspectives. But because I take the written word as a powerful tool when wielded properly I am treading carefully. Based on religious conflict it is not something that can be done cavalierly, to many people have died to do that.
Hi everyone. and thanks Pat for the great topic.
I just received the book in the mail from Amazon (the one you recommended to me last week for fiction writing) :)
These were pretty deep questions indeed - I like to think that I left my mark on the world through teaching. I never went into teaching to make a name for myself ... but it was rewarding for me to see my students graduate and go out into the world and get jobs making more than their professor :(
So I think my characters have the same need to make their mark - but in different ways.
In politics, as in religion, it is equally absurd to aim at making proselytes by fire and sword. Heresies in either can rarely be cured by persecution.
Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 1, October 27, 1787
So I will probably write about characters who have Tourettes, OCD, & Aspergers like my children. They have been through tons of trials and tribulations in learning how to deal with their disorders and how society perceives them with those disorders...
I've also toyed with the idea of a non-fiction piece on what we've been through as parents just trying to obtain the correct information from physicians, schools, psychiatrists, etc...
The first book I wrote was a fictional autobiography (sort of). I had a lot of matters I needed to work through and thought it would be a good way to do it. It worked, but the book was so bad I don't consider it one of my finished novels.
The first real novel I wrote because I wanted (needed) to make some money. Silly me! I also wanted to talk about the Vietnam war, and get rid of a lot of misconceptions that have arisen. Most of those parts ended up being deleted in the rewrites
Then I read Albert Zuckerman's book "How to Write the Blockbuster Novel" and decided I wanted to write a blockbuster novel and make a ton of money. In many ways that book is my best work, but the one that has the least interest for agents and editors.
The third book I wrote because I read "The Writer's Journey" by Christopher Vogler and I wanted to write a mythic journey story. And debunk a lot of the Hollywood myths about the mafia. And make a lot of money.
The fourth book was a compendium of conspiracy theories -- a different way of looking at the world. (Interestingly enough, it was also the first one I conceived. It just took me five years to get the whole thing worked out.
My current book was supposed to be my declaration of independence from the dictates of the publishing industry. It was supposed to be a silly story, but is turning into something deeply metaphysical. Odd, that.
I've always wanted to be a good story teller; never really had any interest in writing the great American novel, but for some reason lately, I've been getting the feeling that I want to get so good at both storytelling and writing that I will not be ignored. Don't know where that came from. Maybe these discussions. But, in the end, I guess, I do want to make a difference, even in a small part to people who might someday read my books.
My next one may be a bit different. I hope to portray a character through the prism of the way other people view her, without really revealing a great deal about how she feels about herself. At least not at first. I want to examine perceptions. How other's perceptions of us impact our view of ourselves. And how wrong they can be. And of course, being me, I anticipate having pages too hot to handle without an oven mitt!
When I thought about "how do you take a reader some place and make them glad they went..."
My characters generally grow in some way or have a change in character that leads them to some better understanding of their situation.
I began this story because I have always been aware of the social stigma of my own beginnings and how I have overcome some of those, and some I have not overcome. So I am also trying to change my own perceptions of myself, the world and perjudice with this book.
I even did re-writes to change the story quite a bit ... but in the end it's just not going to be my master piece. But I think I learned a great deal about myself and the art of writing through the completion of that work.
Now I think I have so many stories to tell and I want to become a good story teller. For me it's not so much about making a great deal of money [although that would be GREAT] I'd rather be recognized for my writing.
That's what I want to do. I want to create characters and situations and places that become so real that the reader's daily life is abandoned. I want the reader to feel the emotions my characters feel. Want them to put the books down thinking that those events really happened to those people.
Now, how to do that...
Good stuff here, folks.
"Ask your character these two questions: Who are you? Who do you want to be?
Ask them of yourself as well."
I think that's part of the key to writing well: knowing who you are and what you want to be in relation to the book you are writing. Maybe that's the way to get inside it. Make the character's transformation your own.
The thing I've always said to people via my books is: "Beware. Nothing is as it seems. You are being lied to, and have always been lied to," but I'm not certain I want to continue with that theme. Don't know where I am going with my writing. Can you get anywhere if you haven't a clue? I don't know.
Pat B. I particulary loved this question as well: "How do you create an experience of another life so vivid and compelling that for the moment it exists in the mind, it obscures and obliterates the reader's own life"
That's what I aspire for - it is part of my journey ... I do hope that I get there!
Now I have to tell you that I didn't remember this event and even went so far as to argue with her that I was sure that it hadn't happened. She finally got a cousin to prove it to me, it did indeed happen. Then and only then did I begin to remember this event.
So I think you have to use everything in your writing and who knows where it will lead.
My husband's oldest is graduating this year and my oldest is graduating next year ... I think that this is a scary world and people are unsure. So in general I want my characters to be bold "Survivors" and not be afraid of the world.
I'm not so much afraid of the rejections - I just don't think my WIP's are ready to go out yet.
As a parent and a teacher I have learned to develop a thick skin - so I think I'll be able to handle the rejection of agents. My son has had many of what we call "melt downs" with his Aspergers/ADHD. He often tells me he hates me and wants to go live with parents who can really love him. The first time I heard those words I wanted to die. Now I've learned to let his melt down run the course and he always comes back later and hugs me and knows that we are the best parents for him and that he loves us...
So I think the process of rejections doesn't scare me as much as just getting to that point!
Pat, I think to take the reader on a journey, you have to get inside the skin of your characters and go with them on the journey you are writing about. I think you have to love your characters, even the bad ones.
I must be tired. I don't usually get this philosophical until the wee hours of the morning.
Isn't it funny how we each approach our writing in different ways, present it in different ways? Pat's themes of lies, my emphasis on adventure. But we're each so different. We have different interests and needs and hopes and fears. Of course our stories differ. That's endlessly fascinating to me.
Wanda, we're all climbing with you.
Nancy, sometimes theme doesn't reveal itself until the work is complete. If the writer had no theme to begin with, then he discovers it as he finishes the story. Then he can add or subtract to emphasize that theme.
Don't you guys just love writing? Look at all the goals we can accomplish with it. And we not only tell a story, but we include truths and theme and hope and encouragement. Writing is awesome. And we get to do it whenever we want to.
I love books where the MC is able to do those daring things I'm too scared to do, able to say those things that I'd love to say but am too uptight. In writing I can be that person. I have a long ways to go but I think once the desire is there it will begin to happen. I had a lot of success in one query letter where I stated that the idea of the novel was taken from a true story that was on Dateline. The agents read my first 50 pages and said it was interesting but the execution was not good. That was a long time ago and I hope my execution is getting better. Ho Hum. Anyway I notice that Law and Order is stories ripped from the news. And that is a pretty sucessful show, so yes, I do get ideas from true stories and it seems to interest agents.
David Gerrold (might as well keep quoting him since he is the nominal host) says that the first million words are just for practice. So see, we're both still on the bench!
I really think that those who perservere, that seek to get better, even when it is really hard, those people (us) are using this medium to find the answers to things that we can't find any other way.
Or we just think we have something to say to the whole world and we want to get it out there.
You are right. Writing is truly awesome.
It's that realization that's making me rethink my journey. If words are so powerful that they can change readers and writers both, then they deserve my best. I don't think I've ever achieved my best. At least, I hope I haven't.
Pat S., June, be forwarned: I too was in it for the fun, now look at me and my pretentions!
I do think we have to be in the right place at the right time and meet the right people. Just like we've gathered here - to support and encourage each other.
I'm learning a great deal from these discussions.
I'm going to attend a writing conference here in Washington State. Now as it's approaching I'm getting a little nervous. There will be manuscript evaluations, and participant readings... But I'm also being bold and putting myself out there to network and learn more about my craft!
The faculty are four published authors/poets and there will be discussions on freelance writing - which is one thing I would like to try to do while I work on my novels.
So In July I will be back with all the information I've garnered ... and will share my experiences with you all!
more philosophy.
There will be a smaller writers conference here in Cresecent City in September. I am so anxious to attend since it will be right here in town.
We can't help as we improve. I use those challenges for 100 word stories to help me learn to edit my own work.
Nancy, I too like all kinds of books, especially those that don't fit into a specific genre. In fact, that's one reason why I took up writing. They don't publish the multi-genreational books I like to read, so I decided to write them for myself.
That's why I know I'll need line editing prior to anything going to query...
Pat B, I also don't think we've done our best work yet. We'll get better and better. And we'll never just coast. Everyone in this group will remember what it's like to want to create the best works we can. And we'll do that every time. (Just a little prophesying...)
I can hear it now, "Yes, Wanda. Thank you so much for sharing that. I believe that is the 14th time you have shared that this month." :o)
Absolutely. I have learned so much from the process of writing, be it about characters, writing a scene or simply trying to use just the right words. I've heard the Gerrold quote about the 1 million words, though like many other bits of found wisdom, I'd like to disprove the theory.
Getting back to the theme of the article. Yes. I do want to write words that matter and bring people to places they've never been to before. It's when we forget those original drives for why we wanted to write that it starts being work, and hard work at that.
Dale, they don't get worse after surfing, but they do get worse during these chats. Mostly because I don't take the time to proof what I write.
Jack Heffron: wrote - "The Writer's Idea Book" that's full of prompts and exercises to help you write. In the intro he says: "Writing is an act of hope. It is a means of carving order from chaos, of challenging one's own beliefs and assumptions, of facing the world with eyes and heart wide open. Through writing, we declare a personal identity amid faceless anonymity..."
And then Meg Files: wrote "Write from Life, Turning your personal experiences into compelling stories"
I would love to host when I get back Pat B. - my conference is June 26 - 30th and there is a max # of participants of 50 so it should be good and small and I'm hoping to get some great info!
I constantly have to recite "i before e, except after c, and in words that say a as in neighbor and weigh."
James's comment got me thinking about work vs. hobbies, though that wasn't his intended use of work. How many hours do you think we've collectively put into this writing endeavor? If we're not yet paid, it is hobby. Or a labor of love. But we give it so much of our time and our thoughts and our efforts. We do receive back, however. Satisfaction. Growth. Hope.
And eventually publication and money. Let's not forget the money element.
But for most of us, this is a time-consuming hobby. The number of writing hours among this group alone must be tremendous. Though we might not spend as much time on writing in one week as does a golfer with his addiction, writers spend a lot more time on their passion than do other hobbyists. That's commitment. And drive.
I hope each of you is rewarded in many ways for your efforts, skills, and dedication to the craft.
The instructor is a nurse practitioner who is a Reiki Master and reads tarot cards, etc...
I've had more fun with this group of friends and feel like I'm more in touch with my characters. I do meditate on them and like you, have had really vivid dreams about story info too. I've learned to have a pad of paper by my bed. And I have to try to get up sometimes and write things trying not to wake my poor husband.
My best writing times seem to be between 1-4 am :)