Black Silence and the Holocaust

Great article.I don't know why I had always assumed the Romanies came from Romania.

Thank you Ann. Basically, the Romanies do come from Romania. However, the word "roma" means "gypsy" in Czech dialect. As a result, the Bohemians and Moravians were also called Romanies. Was that to conveniently "forget" these two groups ever actually existed since the majority of these people were wiped out during World War II and the area is now called the "Czech Republic"?

good article

interesting. this may sound stupid: how dark were/are the people?

Not a stupid question at all, Nyota, and in fact one I am still trying fully answer. One of the problems is the migrant nature of the people. It is believed their ancestry is shared with the Middle East, perhaps India. There are several problems with exploring this lineage. First, only 10 percent of the race still exists and many are still forcibly silenced. Second, as the gypsies traveled into Germany and the Czech republic they were brutally raped to "cleanse" their culture. Third, many of the relics that defined their heritage were destroyed in the Holocaust but there is still no recognition or compensation. The Bohemians in my family never talked about it and in fact, lied they were Czech (this was often done when coming to America because the Bohemians were not readily accepted or employed). My mom and uncle discovered otherwise, based on admissions from my grandparents, and shared the photos and facts with me. The photo of my ancestors looks just like the pictures you see of gypsy caravans in the movies - dark wavy hair, dark serious eyes and scarves wrapped around their heads to cover them. "Skinheads" use the same degrading terms to Romany as ignorant people in this country to describe people of color and beatings are a regular occurrence - simply for walking down the street. It is chilling to think the government told Polansky there were no survivors from Lety but he found more than 100 tucked away. I can't imagine the pain and isolation they feel. Learning about my culture has certainly given me a vast understanding of racism, segregation and oppression on all levels and how important it is to talk about it. Thank you for a great question - and by the way, you were my inspiration to write about it because of your outgoing expression and encouragement in this forum. Thanks!

Stacey
what an amazing and important article. I am so glad there will be a series of these. Thank you for this. this is exactly one of the many things I love about gather - being made aware of issues I need to know about. your article is a gift to us all.

A few people in my family tree came from Romania.
Thanks for filling me in. I think we all need to become more aware
of both past and present history!

very interesting...keep writing..:)

Thank you for the explanation and compliments, Stacey!

Intersting... Thanks for the information... I didn't really know any of this.

This is very interesting as I had no knowledge of it. I believe that I read every article in the newspapers during WWII. But remember nothing of hearing about Bohemians.

That is the scary party J R B - and what I will write more about in future entries, along with the connection to modern day events.

The story of the Jewish Holocast is heart-wrenching and must never happen again.

The problem with the focus is that it misses other peoples targeted by, decimated by, and scattered by the Third Reich.

Thank you for reminding us of the fate of Bohemia in this discussion.

horrific... thanks for sharing and keeping their story alive

Yes, I thought Gypsies came from Romania. I have a friend, who just recently passed away and his heritage was 100% Czech. I am not sure what part of Czech. he was from though.

Very well written and informative.

This is an excellent article, and a stark reminder that we cannot ignore history, any part of it. Thanks for sharing it. I hope you do write more.

Fascinating story and excellent writing. I learned so much! Can't believe I didn't see it until now.

Informative, interesting, and well written.

great article!

Very informative article! As much reading as I've done on the Holocaust, it seems I need to dig much deeper. Thank you!

I have always been fascinated by Roma, and loved the book "Bury Me Standing". I always envisioned myself making friends with Gypsies here in NYC, but they are very insular [which I am sure comes from centuries of persecution]. Keep writing!

Good article. Very sad also.

Hi MamaSaid.
I'm so glad that Amy told me about you.

Some Gypsy blood courses through my veins and at times that part of me dominates my life. That's when I write my most flamboyant poems and stoies.
I'm totally entranced by Romanian music and something happens to me when I listen to it.
This Gupsy part of me fills with a deep longing....an almost painful longing...that tells me that there is a place thai I musy go to to find happiness one day.

If you have time, kindly go to my site and have a glance at these two articles:

The Romanian Rhapsody
I Saw My Grandmother Dancing.

They explain how I feel. Thak you thank you that you wrote this. Fred

Hi MamaSaid,
Although I have known about this for some time I am very glad you wrote about it here on Gather - so many people can read and know about this!
Thank you!
Cristina

thank you for sharing such important information

Excellent post!

I have now learned something new. I did see a few gypsy groups while living in Germany and could also see how they were looked down upon. It is surprising to hear that there are supposedly so few. Interesting.

I had no idea--thanks for sharing!

Thanks for such a post. This post should be published any where. It shows also how "terrorism" is initiated!

Girly Comments & Graphics

Good article, I didn't know that. Thanks for filling me in. I should check out that book.

I'm late in reading this. It is so interesting. One is never too old to learn, and you've certainly taught me something I didn't know. Thank you for sharing.

Very interesting post, Stacey. I didn't know about this so I've learned something tonight. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for this interesting article. The gypsies have always had problems because of their live style. I have ancesters born in Prussia and it is very hard to trace them because it doesn't exist any longer.

me too, of Bohemiam heritage too, (as well as Greek and French).

My new neighbor asked if I was a Bohemian, I thought he meant hippie! He taught me a bit about your heritage. I enjoyed learning more, thank you.

I recall Hearing of this while researching for Kasey. Very little was found by either of us before she took ill and I never went back to that research I bring up and speak of what I did research but stopped all research of the holocaust.
I feel as is she shook me saying see there is so much more. . .
bless you for memories hope I can find more of this.

Interesting,
Thank you for sharing!

i have not heard of the book but i will see if i can get it a t the library this week

Thank you! This is very interesting.

Stacey, thank you for this article..it is an eye opener! I look forward to more posts from you on this..:>}

Stacey - this is a very important article - I can't believe I am just now seeing it as everyone should be aware of these atrocities - thank you. Salud

good article .....I am a 1/2 Bohemian.

This was great interesting information....I want to read MUCH MORE by you. Your voice needs to be heard, what a awesome and unique heritage.

thanks for sharing pif

Wow thank you for the information, and opening our eyes.

Paying It Forward

How very sad, and tragic, and how angry you must feel!
Thanks for sharing!

What a great article! Very informative, I can't wait to read more from you!

Excellent article. Allow me to add my 5 cents for what it's worth.
I've always been fascinated by the gypsies. I love their music and the music they have inspired, their free spirit and their strong desire to live as they choose, ignoring borders and the way of life in whatever country they happened to live in.
There are still gypsies all over Europe and Russia including in Germany where I grew up and in the US.

A couple of years ago I saw a report on bohemians, romans, gypsies in the US and as always, it gave the underlying impression that they were thieves and it didn't sit well that they have their own laws and rules that they live by and of course they talked about struggles with the law.

I do remember some painted wagons from when I was a very small child, a gypsy woman coming to our door on rare occasions. Times were still tough in Germany (I was born a few years after WWII) but my Mom gave her what she could. She said Karma will bite you in the a@@ and that the woman had hungry children to feed and clothe.
One of our neighbors, a mean you know what, let the dogs lose the moment she opened the gate to his property.

They marked the farm houses and other areas to let other gypsies know which people and places were friendly to them and which were not.
Our gypsy woman never begged, she simply offered to trade in return and while it is cliche many women read fortunes and the men fixed implements. The town allowed them to stay on public property for a certain number of days, I think it was seven to fourteen days.

50 years later there are still gypsies who now live in motor homes and the ones who still visit my hometown sell artistic woven items as well as pottery, they still travel the countryside. I bought some pottery and I treasure it.

Non-conformity is enough to get anyone - gypsy or not - in trouble with any government, but add a free spirit who actually thinks borders are man-made and the earth belongs to them - and acts upon it and you have a real problem.
Explain that to the patriot act crazy Americans here - don't you dare cross our border.

Then you have the somewhat different religious beliefs and you are really ostracized by the community. There are still a great number of Spanish area gypsies who have annual festivals and ceremonies which are well attended today.

At any rate, I knew about the fate of the gypsies during the Third Reich, not that any one cared or even helped the gypsies, regardless which country they happened to live in. If you ask me nothing much has changed. Lip Service is cheap.

Gypsies have no alliances, no country to call their own, no one to speak for them, no special interest groups backed by tons of corporate monies, even some of their values - blood feuds are different. They have their own language, (most still speak several languages) their own laws and their own beliefs.

My recollection is hazy, but I thought the program I saw talked about allowing some gypies into the US if they could prove they were being persecuted, like in parts of old Russia and old Bohemia.
There is undeniably a criminal element, like some of the gangs from Romania who operated quite brazenly between Poland and Germany (about 7 to 8 years ago until the Euro cops finally got together and put an end to the worst of it, mainly car thefts. It gave the gypsies a bad name once again and in my heart I hope it is their music and artistic free spirit which in the end will win out and survive.

It's not a perfect world by any means, but I have always thought how wonderful it is to know that there exists a group of people who have great artistic talent and an insatiable appetite for freedom. If we lose them and this trait we have lost a part of our own humanity.

If I were a gypsy and knew that pigs graze upon our tortured bodies grave, I'd feel exactly as you do. No one deserves to be treated as a non-human and worse to have in this case the Czech gov try to deny the survivors a voice.
Having said that it is just as important to have a future. A nomadic tribe has to be incredibly smart and resourceful to survive in our times or they will eventually be absorbed.

Very informative.....an article everyone should be required to read!

positively wonder article.....as i read it i had to pick the brain of my resident history teacher....... he never ceases to amaze me with his historical knowledge..... he knew of these people and of the small country...... he kept saying gypsies to me...the thinking that they were criminals still holds true...years back, we spent every weekend at the flea market selling...... i do remember me or one of the other of us saying.... don't leave me....stay...the gypsies are coming and they will steal us blind.......sad to say you had to watch them very closely........ sigh.... pif

thank you for sharing PIF

What a fascinating article. I knew that gypsy's were among those sent to concentration camps along with many people of faith other than Jewish, such as priests, nuns, and ministers. I did not realize how severely they were still being persecuted. I often wonder where all the hatred in this world comes from and have decided that it springs from fear of what is different, what is uncertain. Fanatics spring up like weeds. It would be lovely if we could sow enough seeds of beauty and hope and compassion to eliminate those that seek to destroy.

I know that I am late in this conversation, but I second that, Beryl.

HH

This is an excellent article and is a subject that must never be forgotten- a story that must always be told.

You are correct about the origin of the skin color. In fact, from what I understand, genetics and oral history have clearly linked the Romany with a particular region of India.

There is a fascinating DVD I just watched called "Gypsy Caravan." It is sort of like "The Buena Vista Social Club" but for Gypsy music. It brings together Gypsy bands from India, Romania, Macedonia (where there were also slaughtered by the Germans) and Spain (flamenco music is 100% Romany, or Gypsy, music that developed in Spain). The DVD follows the group on a world tour, and in the process takes us back to the villages where the musicians come from. It discusses persecution in very personal terms, with personal anecdotes and photos. The film also discusses stereotypes and prejudice against gypsies that still exist today, all over the world. Is there an ethnic group that doesn't have criminals? I don't know of any. The truth about the Romany is what you said: they are artistic, musical, creative, dark-skinned, clearly "different" in Europe, and often persecuted. The story told by the DVD is bittersweet, and the music is wonderful. I highly recommend it (Gypsy Caravan, the movie and website).

Thanks again for your article!

PIF

Thanks for sharing this info.

There are memorials for Jews, and finally for Armenians, but for the Roma genocide, there is nothing. There should be!

Stacey, glad I saw this. I knew about the Bohemians being put in the camps from my class on the Holocaust. They were considered sub-human as we were. I am sorry for your pain, I can relate.

Thanks for sharing, it is very interesting. So sad how people are treated because of narrow minded people.

My deceased partner was working on holocaust history I have read of the horrors your ancestors went though
I also knew Bohemians in Ft Lauderdale where I was raised. anything but beatnik/Hippy's...I myself was a hippy lol
some of the finest beading I have ever seen was done in a small shop in Lauderdale.

excllent article, thanks for posting it.

Thank you for sharing this!

Wonderful article, Stacey...I will follow your link. The book sounds really interesting and I would like to know more.

Great article. Thanks for sharing!

I did not know about this. Thanks for information and reference. Oppression and discrimination - not to mention genocide - are (to say the least) unacceptable. Apparently, despite its sins, the U.S. remains the best environment for overcoming these abuses. I hope so, anyway.

my second read of this...pif

Thank you for the article. It's so informative, good work.

Hey, this is really interesting information. Firstly because I always thought that Bohemian was a style of dress that was much like the hippies, just a little classier. Whoops! Haha, secondly, we all know about the persicution of some major groups of people throughout history. Christians, Jews, Blacks in America, Witches... but there are minor groups that just get looked over. I feel blessed to be apart of another one of these groups. Like you my family lied about their heritage over the years and it wasn't until recently that it was looked into because some of my generation was being born with decidedly Native American features. So, we dug into our past and found out they we were indeed of Cherokee decent. My Great great grandma was pursicuted for it, though and left the town she lived in. She then told her daughter that they were NOT native american and thus we only just recently found out. I find my person history fascinating and look forward to hearing more about yours! PIF

Very interesting article.

I have been interested in the Rom culture for years.

I realized a few years ago, that of all the wars the USA has entered in the last century few were against "whites".  Almost all were against people with darker skin...

Talk about institutionalized racism!

pif

Interesting article.  Thanks for sharing.   ~pif~

Realy great article

Great article, Stacey.. The only interaction I have ever had with Gypsies was when we lived in Georgia and a small part of Augusta was inhabited by "settled" gypsies. Very interesting culture.

Well done

I have never understood the hatred towards the gypsies. I have read some historical papers on their culture and am still puzzled.
The pig farm there now is just plain ignorance.
My heart breaks when I think of it.

By, the way... pif!

This is really appalling that this kind of treatment is still tolerated and allowed to happen to a class or race of people.

That was an interesting article.

This is a very informative article. Thank you so much for sharing. There is so much intolerance in this world. So many people don't realize that there were so many more people in the concentration camps other than Jews. There were millions of others. It is tragic that this happened. There is still ethnic cleansing going on in this world.

HH

pif