The conversation turned to the situation in Texas, with the State imposing itself onto the families in the recent scandal there. As a professional Doug said to the small gathering at the coffee shop that for years now Pediatric Psychiatrists have been writing about the damage done to children after they have been involved with a pedophile. He said mostly children are not harmed physically or psychologically by peadophillia to anywhere near the extent they are harmed by well meaning public officials, the media and the courts.
He said the real damage is done by those who tell the child that something really bad has happened to them and that they will feel better once it all comes out and they tell their story in court. This traumatizes children far more so than the actual sexual encounter, in Doug's words "telling is bullshit"
I had never thought of this until recently when I saw how the Texas situation was being so badly handled, I realized that moral judgements were forcing people to take actions against children that would follow those kids their entire lives. The actions of the so-called authorities in Texas were as, if not more abusive to those kids than anything their parents were doing...
So, it just depends how we look at a situation, is it ALWAYS in a child's best interests to expose sexual or family abuse? According to a lot of Pediatric Psychiatrists, no its not...
What do you think??
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Comments: 125
I really had never considered the perspective or insight offered by your friend Doug. He makes a lot of sense.
Certainly, though, any child who has or is currently being abused must tell someone.
It seems a little premature to me to judge the Texas authorities. All we hear is the media slant and they usually go for headlines rather than the balanced truth.
I'm not discussing what they did in Texas. That was outreageous! Kidnapping all those kids from parents that did nothing wrong. They should be sued for the unexcused breaking of every law on the books regarding the state intervening in a families private business.
But just regular cases of parent/child sexual abuse. There is a BIG difference in the type of men that fall into this. We need to make help available that doesn't bring the police knocing at the door.
The way things are now, even the Dad goes to his pastor or doctor to try to get help with his addiction, they MUST call the police. From that point on the family has lost all control. Usually, the children lost their Dad and the wife her husband.
Definetly ... a counselor/social worker or someone should be involved in the home with visits. We need someone other than the wife that he has to answer to. He must be required to go to counseling. Also the family if necessary.
Maybe it would be good if the counselor could come to the home regularly taking more responsibility for the family progress & accountable to report to some authority responsible to oversee total cooperation.
We need to help the whole family save face. Foregive & yet demand reform. Any repeat of the offense would require legal consequences.
I think you read my poem Hip Hip Hooray Robin. So you know I've been able to feel the pain from all sides.
I'm glad you printed this article. The process needs lots of thought.
I am an attorney - not a family law attorney - but when you enter the family law courts, you are always told that it is best for families to work things out - rather than the courts. This is an area that is so problematic. For some of those children, maybe what is happening is for the best, for other children, maybe not. It is so hard to say. However, polygamy is against the law, underage sexuality is against the law, teaching boys to be predators is legally/morally wrong, and teaching girls to be victimes is morally/legally wrong. What's the state to do?
By then I had an adult's perspective, so I was able to understand.
Didn't make the betrayal I felt at the hands of my abusers anyless painful.
But it did help put things into perspective.
The problem here in lies with the professionals, who are so full of themselves that they are starting to believe their own press!
The solution as I see it? Is to step back and ask "YOUR" inner child what would he/she like to happen in that situation.
Instead of projecting our own insecurities onto the child, do what the child would like to see done.
Of course, this assumes that the adult has enough self awareness to be able to step back. Most don't.
Can't see the forrest for the trees!
I never told a soul till I was married and had my own family then it came up, I spoke with my then wife about it and we dealt with it together, I was fine. I never told and I wasn't anymore traumatized by the experience than I was the first time my father threw me into a swimming pool, I was curious about that as well, but I didn't like it.
The man who got me was not aggressive or threatening, though at the time I didn't understand so I went along, it never injured me physically or mentally.
Later as I was growing up and child abuse was becoming a more and more popular topic I decided to keep my experience to myself as it was obviously not pleasant for the kids who told.
We are always going to have this issue in our society no matter how we choose to deal with it and I think that we should defer to the experts, the child psychologists and Pediatric Psychiatrists, they see this all the time and obviously have come to intelligent conclusions...
I have a family member (no, not myself, I thank God) who suffered sexual abuse through his teen years and told no one until he was in his 30s. He is now suffering from paranoia, neurosis, schizophrenia and is an admitted bi-sexual pedophile himself. In addition he has dealth with depression and suicidal tendencies for the past 30 years.
I do not see how telling anyone could have made things much worse for him.
Still, I loved my parents deeply and would not have wanted anything bad to happen to them, even public humiliation, so I would have lied about the abuse anyway. Plus I would not have wanted to leave my home and my younger siblings, whom I dearly loved and believed I was protecting. Hence, I would never have willingly told anyone anything. Plus even serious abuse is not always chronic, but rather episodic.
Would I have been better off emotionally if I had lived with my aunt and uncle, without the ever-escalating abuse through my teen years? Certainly. Did I recognize the seriousness of the abuse while I was living it? Yes and no. I knew other families had problems too, but also had recognized by the age of 9 that my mother was not 'quite right'.
I was later able to be a volunteer advocate for other victims, but one learns there is not a 'one-size-fits-all' solution. Granted, it never occurred to me, as an adult, that full disclosure would not be to the child's benefit.
Interesting post and food for thought in how we view children's experience.
Personally I think all child abusers should be shot, it is one of the worst crimes there is,
I was sexually abused as a child.
I told my parents and they didnt belive me for many years.
I was married and had my own children before they would even admit that it happened for so many years.
I am scared both mentally and physically.
as a child living with it day to day it tore me up inside.
to this day, i have flashbacks and find it hard to trust many people.
I keep such a good account of my kids, that they are many times laughed at cuz i dont let them go out anywhere. But is anywhere really safe?? my abuser lived in my home.
They are suffering the effects of my own abuse and they have done nothing wrong.
is there really a good answer to tell or not??
If you are talking about the FLDS children here, I can say I know this was handled wrong, and makes me really glad my parents left Texas before I was born. I think what makes the difference in this is the type of exposure. In the FLDS case, the so called, "Christians" forced their values on others, and created an impossible situation for those kids.
If a 30 year old man has sex with a 14 year old girl it is pedophilia but if a 17 year old boy has sex with the same girl no charges will be filed? Both males are suffering from the same thing but the younger one is considered OK because he is closer in age to the victim...
It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I believe we need to look at pedophilia as an illness, it is a compulsion or an addiction not a crime and needs to be treated intellegently not emotionally.
I had to chuckle at Elsie's *final solution* "Personally I think all child abusers should be shot..." I don't agree but they certainly need restraining and whatever treatment we can offer them.
As a survivor I can tell you, you couldn't be more wrong. Unthinkable, long term damage and nothing anyone told me or could have told me or has told me made it go away or made it something it wasn't or made it less horrific to endure
As to the Texas situation. Children should not be married to older men, children should not bear children, the whole scene is despicable and done in the name of "religion". Disgusting.
Re:not a crime . If you are murdered is that not a crime-maybe it was a compulsion on the side of the murderer-its a crime and the worst of crimes since it's victims are children. There is no cure-I believe in the death penalty for pedophiles.
Don't even get me started...people still making excuses for and giving a slap on the wrist to these monsters.
I'm aware that the courts do treat sexual abuse of children badly. If a three year old child cannot name specific dates and times in court, the charges won't stick. The justice system needs improvement, but keeping pedophilia hushed up is always wrong.
As for telling the family and upsetting them - where were they when the child needed them? There is something wrong with advising that a child who suffers guilt, shame and fear to spare the adults.
Robin, I know you disagree, but I have no sympathy for those who victimize children, other than their immortal souls's destination.
My family did not protect me or defend me and I made a vow that my child was never going to know that feeling regardless of what I had to do.
When my daughter was kidnapped and assaulted, I contacted everyone with any authority at her college. I contacted my congressman and hers, our retired US congressman, who is a friend and the state governor. I got their undivided attention and the kidnapper is now serving a prison term as he should.
Don't talk to me about going easy on sexual criminals. Your experience may not have bothered you, but 4 out of 6 women have lifelong issues due to it. The victim deserves all the support and love possible.
Telling is NOT bullshit - pedo's are bullshit and must/have to be brought into light. If they aren't - if a parent keeps their child safe by not allowing them to "to not tell" is this right to the future victim?
How it is handle in court and the media are the issues.
how can adoption paperwork be sealed for children to protect them, and this type of info open to the public? The victim is the victim and should be shielded from not only public scrutiny, but also scorn & doubt.
brings to mind a saying - have not a clue who said it, so I'm quoting without a source,
"this is a true story, however names have been changed to protect the innocent."
protect the innocent, but don't let the guilty party continue with their crimes - they lost their rights to protection the second they touched a child.........grrrrrr....sorry ~J
As to your credit the human flesh is of an animal kind and in being so replicates its cousins in the wood. If you study the lions or baboons you will start to understand why we do the things we do.
nerds did.
My father was extremely physically hard on me and so were the other fathers in the neighborhood I grew up in. In the 50's and 60's it was considered normal to strike a child if he miss-behaved, now it is illegal?
So we grew up and outlawed those practices and people more or less fell into line with the new ways because that just what you do when you are a normal functional person.
However pedophilia, though it is illegal has never gone away, it won't go away anymore than cancer or alcoholism will go away because it is not the behavior of normal functional people.
Pedophilia is a very widespread illness, a pandemic you might say because it effects nearly everyone in one way or another. Wouldn't it be wiser to treat the issue rationally and without all the emotion it seems to bring up? Wouldn't it be wiser to start now to look at it as an illness that people can seek help for without the fear of the cops and exposure and all the crap that entails?
OK it'll take a few generations to change peoples thinking but if we don't, the problem threatens to be ongoing and getting worse as time passes.
I am a victim so I think I am qualified to say that I wouldn't send anyone to a gruesome death in a prison for an illness that he was unable to talk about and as a result unable to control.
I agree with you Donald that we need to learn as a scociety to control our baser animal drives but that requires communication and understanding. These men are trapped in an emotional whirlpool of guilt and social silence from the moment they are raped as children, what can we expect.
Oh and Donald, I think it is very unfair and actually quite wrong of you to equate child abuse and pedophilia with homosexuality, homosexuality may have its problems socially but it is NOT illegal nor is it considered an illness...
I'm sorry but as a victim (who was bothered by the way) I cannot afford to go off on an emotional tangent, I want the best for EVERYONE because I want the best for myself...
Let's just agree to disagree on this point!
That's the real tragedy that I see in this situation.
I did not address my mental issues with this until 20 years after the fact - however, having come from the situation - I lived everyday accepting that "this is the norm" - and kept getting myself into the same situation over and over again.
With that said, I wish I HAD told - perhaps I wouldn't have lived through so much bullshit if I had..........but thats just my side of the story ~j
They have found that the rate of teenage pregnancy among the FLDS kids was lower than the national average, which tells me that things weren't nearly so bad as some had hoped.
A girl who expects to be married at puberty is prepared for it by the time it happens. Otherwise, St. Joseph was a pedophile. Girls marry quite young in many cultures, and no one screams. The girls involved aren't "abused"; they're simply married.
Now, being molested by your mother's boyfriend might be a very different story, and telling there might bring some closure, particularly if the guy gets some meaningful punishment out of it.
The authorities in Texas may have mishandled certain aspects of this case, but they were morally obligated to do something. FLDS practices institutionalized pedophilia, which is morally (and, don't forget, legally) wrong. It is, by definition, an abuse of power. I cannot understand people who defend the FLDS "church."
I am a screwed up individual, by some people's standards, but I now know love, and if I had to go through all that I did in my past to get where I am today, I'd do it all again.
Each person is different, reactions are different. Perhaps: if the abuser didn't threaten death, or other serious consequences: if the abuser wasn't a trusted adult who should know better that to use a child for sexual satisfaction: if the abuse wasn't long term, covering years: if the child didn't grow up knowing that what was happening was wrong, since it must be a secret from family and/or friends
I would, however, question the motives of anyone who would say that children aren't harmed by sexual abuse as much as they are harmed by the people helping them out of the situation in which they are being abused. Some people rationalize their own attraction to children as a sexual object with these kinds of statements. Not that I am accusing your friend, but these kinds of statements worry me when used to get the children to be left with the abusers.
All in all, I cast a worrisome eye on anyone who can say this.
It can be trumatizing either way. If you hold all your emotions inside and never tell anyone that can sometimes be more damaging than never telling at all.
And, if you do tell and do not receive any justice than that can be bad as well.
But, there are times that you do tell everything and your life comes out the better for it.
Abuse in any way is not right and victims should have a voice. Don't hide from your fear it only makes things worse.
Keeping the secret I think does not help you in the long run it hurts.
Anywho, thanks for posting this article, I like a good debate.
Keep these issues coming and I will come by and read.
Your friend may be a pediatrician but he is not an expert on childhood sexual abuse.
I won't give you my view point, but suffice it to say that I was an organizer in the feminist community for over 35 years and my viewpoint is completely different than your friends.
Get the real facts. It will break your heart.
There is a difference from a Dad that molested a child that he truly loves (in one sense) and got carried away ... or addicted ... (I don't know what to call it) but hates what is going on and wants help ....... and ......... a pediophile. Pediophiles should always be turned in to the police. I refuse to hate anyone and would still (if it were someone I knew) help them adjust to life in prison or help them find peace with God. But an addicted Pediophile needs to spend some time in prison. Then he needs to be open about his problem when he gets out of prison. He's a different problem than a other wise good Dad.
And, often it is a father or a brother or an uncle or granddad who does indeed love the child but there is no difference, Pedophilia is Pedophilia it requires the removal, safe institutionalization and psychological treatment of anyone who has the problem...
We never know who we are helping when we speak honestly about things we would often rather not discuss...
A child who is sexually assaulted is not worse off for having it found out. They need to be taught that what happened to them was wrong and that they are not at fault at all. I don't think children should have to testify in court however, I think that their initial interviews with the police or what ever agency is handling the case should be taped and that tape should be admisable in the court room. I do think putting a child in a court room can be traumatic, but it is a million times less dramatic than being abused repeatedly.
In Donald's defense I believe he was stating a fact about an anomaly of sex and not that homosexuality is either wrong or right but that it is a part of what we are, a sexual driven beast.
Give the abusers therapy, sympathy, hot chocolate and teddy bears, but keep them locked away from children at all costs.
It is the most vocal righteous that demand the harshest penalties for all, when they know nothing of the particulars of the individual cases that have come to "victimise" the "abused" far more than called for in so many cases ... I think that is because so many peoples minds go direct to the worst examples of extreme cases and then tend to paint all cases with a broad brush.
Overlooking peadophillia is not appropriate either. Courts are harsh and cold environments and this learning process (for the child) needs to be treated gently and trauma minimized. Who really wants to stand at a podium and tell the world their darkest secret? Unfortunately, I do not have a solution.
They are hopefully going to learn someday that what was happening to them is wrong, no matter what they do. I think that it is better to find out and put a stop to it as soon as possible.