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by Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C.
Member since:
January 8, 2007

The Real McCain

May 18, 2008 04:04 PM EDT (Updated: May 18, 2008 04:07 PM EDT)
views: 156 | rating: 9.2/10 (25 votes) | comments: 96

It's such a pity that petty squabbles and absurd distractions seem to take center stage in the so-called "Liberal" media.  While discussing the use of "sweetie" by Obama, the price of haircuts by Edwards and countless other sideshows, they overlook everything John "I was against torture before I was FOR torture" McCain does or says . . . like the name he calls even his wife (c*nt) in public . . . the happy go lucky RepubliCONs are getting a virtual free pass.  So what say we take a quick side trip and look at the 'real' McCain?

Listen and watch McCain in his OWN words!

Some More of the McCain . . . Get to KNOW the candidate!

After being asked by George Stephanopoulos about receiving the endorsement of Evangelical pastor Rev. John Hagee, who has made a number of controversial remarks, including calling Catholicism "The Great Whore" and blaming Hurricane Katrina on gays, what did he say?  "I'm glad to have his endorsement."

"It's not social issues I care about."   John McCain

"F*ck you! I know more about this than anyone else in the room." to Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX), during a testy exchange about immigration legislation

"No, I'm calling you a f*cking jerk."  to fellow Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley, when Grassley asked "Are you calling me stupid?"

"Only an a**hole would put together a budget like this ... I wouldn't call you an a**hole unless you really were an a**hole."  to Budget Committee Chairman and fellow Repulican Sen. Pete Domenici, during a Senate budget hearing (can we assume his wife really IS a c*nt then?).

LoL!  That Johhnny McCain is SUCH a sweetie! 

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Comments: 96

Don(time to open them FEMA camps) S. May 18, 2008, 4:17pm EDT
No surprises here..............
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Beaker (just Beaker) May 18, 2008, 4:20pm EDT
Of course there are those who say we need a manly man in charge, one who can posture effectively against our enemies. I believe they're the same ones who admit they voted for Clinton in an effort to prolong the Democratic race.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 4:25pm EDT
"No surprises here.............. "
Not for you, Don!! :)

"Of course there are those who say we need a manly man in charge..."
No REAL man EVER called his wife a c*nt! That's the sign of a cowardly, immature, insecure person with NO respect for women!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Roy ☯ Hilbinger May 18, 2008, 4:26pm EDT
LOL!!! Doyle, I think you're preachin' to the choir here. I'll betcha everybody who comments here is NOT gonna be surprised by what's in those two film clips.
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Linda G. May 18, 2008, 4:27pm EDT
Don't care, I will not vote for Obama, he is a liar and a complete idiot when it comes to foreign policy. I am also offended by being a typical white person and a sweetie.
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Juan J Martinez May 18, 2008, 4:43pm EDT
"No REAL man EVER called his wife a c*nt! That's the sign of a cowardly, immature, insecure person with NO respect for women!"

I agree, and that alone should make people think twice about voting for this guy.
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Juan J Martinez May 18, 2008, 4:45pm EDT
Linda, when asked about calling his wife the "C" word, McBush lied and denied it ever happend. Hmm Now if I can show what an idiot McBush is will you rethink your view?
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ModernDay Publius May 18, 2008, 4:45pm EDT
Wow, someone who says what on his mind. I dont know what to do. Someone who has lead and has experience, shocking! No, lets attack him so they teflon cantidate does not have to answer for any of the things that should qualify you for President of the United States
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Esther IS Flesh and Blood S. May 18, 2008, 4:48pm EDT
What a jerk! He won't be voted for on my ballot!
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Juan J Martinez May 18, 2008, 4:54pm EDT
The President of the United States is and should be as much of a diplomat as the Commander and Chief. Can we at this important junction, afford to have a man as our leader, who can't control himself? I think not.
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David K. May 18, 2008, 4:55pm EDT
The clips are certainly damaging when looped together like that. However, I think I'll try to get some additional context before commenting further.
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Ann J. May 18, 2008, 4:56pm EDT
I don't trust him !!!!
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David K. May 18, 2008, 5:02pm EDT
I will add one comment based not so much on these clips as other interviews and news conferences I've seen him give. Despite MDP's admiration for McCain saying what is on his mind, my concern is that McCain often says things without apparently thinking them through. He also at times appear to forget what he has said before so when he contradicts himself he doesn't seem to realize it, even after it is pointed out to him. I'm really looking for someone who can see the world from multiple viewpoints and McCain generally appears not to be able to do that. I like the guy overall, but we really need a leader who can envision the future.
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Wendy C. May 18, 2008, 5:02pm EDT
I'm so sick of the political crap I could scream. Let's get a side show going to mask what's really going on. A republican tradition isn't it?

We need a leader and for the parties to pull their heads out of their prospective butts and get along for the welfare of the country. Hey guys! Remember us? The people you're supposed to represent.

Jaded? Who me?
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Gary Gentry May 18, 2008, 5:04pm EDT
Publius:
What has McCain led?
And another free pass he's getting is the "war hero" business. OK, he was a fighter pilot & that takes big balls. But his real heroism seems to be as a POW. "Extremely admirable", even "heroic", but military leadership? Nope.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 5:05pm EDT
"Wow, someone who says what on his mind."
Typical sidestepping, cheerleader. We don't and haven't objected to him saying what's on his mind! The problem is . . . well . . . what IS on his mind! LoL!

"I dont know what to do."
Shocker. Turn on Limbaugh . . . he'll help.

"Someone who has lead and has experience, shocking!"
...And LOT'S of experience too. Experience against BOTH torture AND Martin Luther King, Jr. as well as experience FOT torture and Martin Luther King, Jr. LoL! TONS of experience!

"No, lets attack him so they teflon cantidate does not have to answer for any of the things that should qualify you for President of the United States "
Yeah . . . attack him with his own words. Haven't seen 'sweetie' yet, kettle!

"Can we at this important junction, afford to have a man as our leader, who can't control himself?"
...as opposed to a man completely controlled by others? Nope. Don't need either!

"I think I'll try to get some additional context before commenting further. "
Absolutely encouraged!!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Bret W. May 18, 2008, 5:06pm EDT
Doyle -

""F*ck you! I know more about this than anyone else in the room." to Sen. John Cornyn (R-TX), during a testy exchange about immigration legislation

"No, I'm calling you a f*cking jerk." to fellow Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley, when Grassley asked "Are you calling me stupid?"

"Only an a**hole would put together a budget like this ... I wouldn't call you an a**hole unless you really were an a**hole." to Budget Committee Chairman and fellow Repulican Sen. Pete Domenici, during a Senate budget hearing (can we assume his wife really IS a c*nt then?)."


I noticed you like video, almost as much as I do, Doyle.

Do you have any videos of the incidents above, or of the "trollop" incident?

I liked the Brave New Films vid you linked us to. Very few offensive things to nail McCain to on that one. In fact, I think Brave New Films solidified McCain support with that footage.
If it was an opportunity taken to disparage McCain, I think it failed miserably.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 5:08pm EDT
"But his real heroism seems to be as a POW. "
Where he admits he told everything he knew within 4 days. That was before he said torture doesn't work and, therefore, was against it. It was also before he decided he was FOR torture. Flip-flop, Flip-flop.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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ModernDay Publius May 18, 2008, 5:10pm EDT
Gary-

McCain has been a leader in the United States Senate for years. He has fought for bills he sponsored and for budget issues. He has shown up to lead unlike Sen. Obama who has one of the most absent voters in the Senate.
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ModernDay Publius May 18, 2008, 5:11pm EDT
Doyle-

that is just untrue and you should not continue to spread such lies. It has been back up by those who were imprisioned with him.
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flit . May 18, 2008, 5:13pm EDT
speaks like a true diplomat, sounds like
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Paul M. May 18, 2008, 5:17pm EDT
Wait, you're not supposed to call your wife a c*nt in public? D'OH!
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Bret W. May 18, 2008, 5:29pm EDT
Oh brother................are you Lefties going to try a "SwiftBoat" on McCain? LMAO!

I think you should do that.
However, I think it may backfire on you this time..........
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Farmer Slim aka Michael H May 18, 2008, 5:30pm EDT
McCain has missed 60% of the votes during the current Congress.
Away on the campaign trail you might say....???
Obama has missed 41.8%
Hillary has missed 31.7%

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/m000303/
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 5:41pm EDT
Check out C-Span Bretty . . . I already KNEW this would solidify YOUR support! Are you denying the MULTIPLE eyewitnesses and accounts because it wasn't on You-tube? Really? Guess those slaves were never freed by Lincoln either.

Forget video . . . the quotes are real and are easily found by google . . .

___________________________________________


Washington Post Link
Fox 'NEWS' said it??
Yet Another Source!
Oh, ANOTHER source?
Huffington even said it got physical!
Another of THOUSANDS of sources!
ABC News Link!
New Mexico Independent . . . WHAT?? A RED state?
Source whatever of how many thousands?? LoL!
Yet another Source. Learn how to spell GOOGLE bretty!
___________________________________________

I know . . . you need you tube. Got it!
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 5:55pm EDT
"that is just untrue and you should not continue to spread such lies."
You're hero said it in his own words . . . in his book, right?


"I blacked out after the first few blows.
I thought if I could hold out, they would relent and take me to a hospital.
But on the fourth day, I realised my condition had become more serious. I was feverish and losing consciousness for longer periods.

"Your father is a big admiral," he shouted. "Now we take you to the hospital."

Eventually I gave them my ship's name and squadron number. When asked to identify future targets, I recited the names of north Vietnamese cities that had already been bombed.

Tough being an Admiral's son? These men that back him . . . were they in the hospital too? Just askin'

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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St. Joy The Baptist M. © Cranky-Pants, Mercenary and Coroner May 18, 2008, 6:00pm EDT
Hi, Doyle. Just popping in, trying to figure it all out.
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Lori F. May 18, 2008, 6:03pm EDT
Doyle isnt he a "person of interest" in an unsolved murder also?
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 6:04pm EDT
"Hi, Doyle. Just popping in, trying to figure it all out. "
If you have a 5th grade education . . . it's really NOT that complex! Obama called a female reporter "sweetie" when she tried to get questions in outside the permitted venue. McCain said everything I stated in the article. Some people still think sweetie was worse. BWA HAhahahaaaa! :) You GO girl!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 6:05pm EDT
"Doyle isnt he a "person of interest" in an unsolved murder also?"
News to me . . . but would LOVE to know what YOU know about McTemper Tantrum! :)

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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St. Joy The Baptist M. © Cranky-Pants, Mercenary and Coroner May 18, 2008, 6:06pm EDT
"Hi, Doyle. Just popping in, trying to figure it all out. "
If you have a 5th grade education . . . it's really NOT that complex!


Um, yeah -- I got your article figured out easily enough. It's other stuff...
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 6:17pm EDT
"It's other stuff... "
Somehow I doubt that! ;)

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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elizabeth e. May 18, 2008, 6:19pm EDT
The "real" McCain scares the hell out of me!
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 6:27pm EDT
No more than the 'real' Booshie, eh? Not that that helps any!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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N. K.* . May 18, 2008, 6:42pm EDT
America has Daddy issues - it would appear that many folks will not be comfortable unless it's an old white guy in the White House. "He'll know what to do.. he'll lead us into the Promised Land". Nonsense. At what point did we stop being concerned with actual issues and only intend to vote for the guy who can hold onto the b.s. image of perfection longer than the others? Seriously, who cares what McCain called his wife? She's still there. That's their issue. Does it matter that Hillary lied about sniper fire? No. Does it matter that Obama called a reporter "Sweetie"? Nope. What matters is which of the candidates will get America back on track. Who can steer us back from the abyss that Dubya has placed us? Who has America's best interest at heart? That's who gets my vote. I look at McCain and I see 4 more years of failed Bush politics. I see a man who has my respect from his service and I won't trash him for that reason. But I only hear the same old rhetoric that has kept us in Iraq for 6 years and an ungodly cost. Do we need more of this? I think not. I think Hillary could possibly get more done as she an old skool politico and knows the game as well anyone. But despite his lack of experience, Obama brings something that America has not had in a long, long time - he brings a sense of hope. If he gets elected, I would hope he would surround himself with an experienced Cabinet that can help guide his decisions.

But I just want a President who is actually in tune with the people he/she will be elected lead. I don't expect them to be perfect. I expect them to do what's right for us and not what's right for a select few.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 6:53pm EDT
"Seriously, who cares what McCain called his wife? She's still there."
Actually, there are two points on that issue. First, it's sheer hypocracy to object to sweetie but not to c*nt. Second . . . it indicates the temper and respect issues . . . not to mention the inability to be civil and diplomatic . . . that are important components which seem inherent to the Nation's highest office.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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N. K.* . May 18, 2008, 7:04pm EDT
You've got a point Doyle - I would imagine that his handlers would keep him in check (I still don't like him though!)
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 7:07pm EDT
"Unkie D....I bet McCain's wife cares what McCain calls his wife."
I bet she does too, Sweetie! ;)

I don't either Nick.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 7:22pm EDT
"Unkie D called me Sweetie!!!!"
just be glad I like his terms more than McCains! LoL!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Tim Nelson May 18, 2008, 7:45pm EDT
A rose by any other name...
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 18, 2008, 8:49pm EDT
" A rose by any other name... "
We're talking about Sweeties and c*nts . . . not roses. LoL!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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El Toro Bravo de Amor May 18, 2008, 9:01pm EDT
That just makes hom more likeable for me. I want to hear the man tell people to F - off. Ha ha. It'd be more refreshing than the stale pretend niceness.
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Rude D. May 18, 2008, 9:13pm EDT
Calling a White woman sweetie? I'll bet the neoCons wish they could lynch him for that. Well, in a way they are trying.
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Wendy C. May 18, 2008, 9:32pm EDT
Bret, dude.. you've clearly got issues. As does whoever is making a fuss over Obama using a common endearment.
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Tim Nelson May 18, 2008, 10:00pm EDT
Seems like I'm on the same page to me.
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Penny G. May 19, 2008, 12:09am EDT
In my little corner of the world, you'll be called darlin', honey, sweetie, sugar, bay, sha, or heart at least 3 times a day, whether you are male or female. It's just being friendly.

Should anyone dare to call you that awful C word, and you'll likely be removing the tips of their stilleto from your ass.
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Vicky Duggins May 19, 2008, 12:34am EDT
Being the Commie Pinko Lefty I am, I'd never vote for McCain for anything... BUT... I don't think people's rough language is necessarily grounds to count them out as a Presidential candidate. Johnson was well known for his salty language (even though what passed for "salty" in the 60s is probably being said on TV sitcoms now.) Truman cussed like the good Missourian he was. Hard to imagine him calling Bess the C word, however. Being a retired Army wife, I've seen McCain do good things for the military during his years in the Senate. I think the Senate is a place he can do some good and he should probably stay there and then retire in a few years. I won't cut down a POW. I can't help but think that being tortured and treated like he was treated for a number of years didn't leave him with some mental problems. I think anyone would have at the least PTSD and anger control issues. I watch a McCain speech and then a Clinton or O'Bama speech, and it just doesn't seem like McCain has the "fire" inside him to get elected like the other two.
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William Dotani May 19, 2008, 1:37am EDT
I'm glad to see he read and fully understood Amy Vanderbilt's 'Complete Book of Etiquette.'
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Carol Lloyd May 19, 2008, 4:32am EDT
steady Bret the swift boat folks were from the right last time around lol. Doyle pushed your button old boy you lost it.. I am surprised
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Tim Nelson May 19, 2008, 9:03am EDT
I like the c-word. I prefer it to any of the other medical, or cute terms. I have no problem with words in general. I think getting into a rut with cussing should be avoided, be creative.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 19, 2008, 9:19am EDT
" I think getting into a rut with cussing should be avoided, be creative. "
Creative or crass? Something tells me you're not like all the other boo-hooers objecting to sweetie. :)

"steady Bret the swift boat folks were from the right last time..."
Something tells me he knew that...and likely aprroved at the time too.

"I don't think people's rough language is necessarily grounds to count them out as a Presidential candidate."
I couldn't agree more! Still . . . this isn't JUST about language . . . it's about temper and control . . . sorely lacking in McCain. It's also in response to the people (*GASP*) . . . HORRIFIED that Obama would use the *whispers* sweetie word!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 19, 2008, 9:21am EDT
"It'd be more refreshing than the stale pretend niceness. "
Hardly an asset to a diplomat to have NO temper control, however.
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Christos G. May 19, 2008, 9:21am EDT
This is the same thing they did to Rev. Wright. It does not do justice to McCain. Don't like him but this is unfair.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 19, 2008, 9:46am EDT
"Don't like him but this is unfair. "
Unfair? Right. So they can talk about how offensive the word sweeite is but responding is unfair, huh? So the man can flip-flop on the issues and pointing it out is unfair, huh? You have the right to your own opinion . . . as do I . . . and my opinion is that your opinion is unfair.

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Gary L. May 19, 2008, 10:07am EDT
Doyle, I guess that the McCain apologists want to paint McCain as tough.

sweety used by a black candidate to a white journalist is disgusting.
c*nt used by a white candidate to his wife, in public, is perfectly okay.

This is about temperament. Remember, we are voting for a person who will ultimately get to make decisions for all Americans in domestic and foreign matters. Sure, he would probably not stock his cabinet with c*nt spewing, irrationally angry folk, but ultimately he is the decider.

McCain is not right in the head and, any right-thinking person, would not even consider him as suitable for the highest office in the land.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 19, 2008, 10:12am EDT
"...any right-thinking person, would not even consider him as suitable for the highest office in the land. "
Clearly . . . and with the video links you can plainly see that his lack of skill managing his anger is surpassed only by his flippity-floppity-ness! :P

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Ivan N. May 19, 2008, 10:24am EDT
Washington Post Link
Fox 'NEWS' said it??
Yet Another Source!
Oh, ANOTHER source?
Huffington even said it got physical!
Another of THOUSANDS of sources!
ABC News Link!
New Mexico Independent . . . WHAT?? A RED state?
Source whatever of how many thousands?? LoL!
Yet another Source. Learn how to spell GOOGLE bretty! ............

YAWN!!!! Show me some CREDIBLE links, Doyle.
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 10:56am EDT
Doyle -

If the Washington Post said it, I have no problem with saying you were right. Well done documenting too. You're not known for doing good, unbiased research like this. Keep up the good work.

Incidentally, with Obama being as far Left as he is, and McCain being right in the Center, you'll have to do much better than this to dissuade most Independents from voting for McCain in November.
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 11:00am EDT
In addition, "swiftboating" McCain is a dangerous tactic.

Back when it happened to Kerry, it was a brand new ploy. Now that everyone has seen it, they know what to look for. It's novelty has worn off now.
Plus, there just aren't a lot of people out there that claim McCain did anything but honor his fellow men in captivity. To point out that he "cooperated" with the Vietnamese is a very thin line you Lefties are walking.

Do you really want to go out on a limb and try to make a shady argument against a recognized war hero? I think its a bad tactic on your part, and could easily backfire on you.
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Clark Kent May 19, 2008, 11:38am EDT
I think the most telling (and damning) quote of all is when he called his wife a "f$#king C#nt. ANY man knows that there isn't a more demeaning, offensive attack that a man (or woman) can hurl at a woman, particularly one he supposedly "loves."

This is a sick man. I think he still has PTSD, to be honest, and he's just about the last person on the planet I'd want anywhere near the US military machine, or any other military machine, for that matter. We don't need another deranged maniac in the white house. Fortunately, the American public knows this.
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Clark Kent May 19, 2008, 11:41am EDT
"with Obama being as far Left as he is, and McCain being right in the Center"

Your delusion is showing again. The vast majority of America is precisely aligned with Obama's positions of every issue of the day. Meanwhile, McInsane is aligned perfectly with the most unpopular president in US history, and fully intends to keep moving on the same disastrously failed track, in spite of the fact that 80% of the population feels that we've headed off track completely. Good luck with that in November, crackhead.
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Clark Kent May 19, 2008, 11:46am EDT
"Do you really want to go out on a limb and try to make a shady argument against a recognized war hero?"

Sure, why not? The republiCONs mocked and ridiculed a decorated TRUE war hero in 2004, and got a big kick out of it, so they sort of kicked the door open on this one.

What exactly is it that McSame did that makes him a "war hero," in your feeble mind? Is dropping bombs indescriminately on innocent civiliants, from 1000 feet in the air "heroic?"

Is being shot down "heroic?"

Is surrendering to the enemy without a fight "heroic?"

Is languishing in a POW camp for 5 years, instead of trying to escape (the SOLE DUTY of any US soldier who's captured) "heroic?"

Is devulging information to his captors "heroic?"

Exactly what is it about his experiences in Vietnam that has garnered him the untouchable label of "hero?" I'm anxiously waiting for this to be answered. I've asked previously, and nobody could offer anything.

Maybe Capt. Delusion here will be my "hero." What say, bert? Can you "rescue me" by explaining what it is that makes Johnny "surrender" McLame a "hero?" If he were French, wouldn't you moonbat wingnuts call him a "surrender monkey?"
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 11:50am EDT
Clark Kent -

Kerry shamed himself when he tossed his medals.
Kerry shamed himself during "Winter Soldier".
Kerry shamed himself by lambasting lots of good, honest soldiers.

His service would have been unblemished, if only he'd just shut his big pie-hole and not denegrated his fellow soldiers. Of course, if Kerry hadn't done what he did during "Winter Soldier", his political career would never have been launched. So I guess he traded on the names of his comrades, for a political career.

That's not the kind of guy I want in the White House.
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 11:54am EDT
Clark Kent -

"What exactly is it that McSame did that makes him a "war hero," in your feeble mind? Is dropping bombs indescriminately on innocent civiliants, from 1000 feet in the air "heroic?" "

Clark, your Left Wing is poking out again.
McCain's torment in Hanoi is what makes him a hero. You know this, I know this. He wouldn't leave his fellow men behind just for early release - that makes him a hero. The solid, supportive words of the most decorated War hero since Douglas McArthur (McCain's roommate in Hanoi for 2+ years, Bud Day) - makes him a hero.

You seem to be the only one denying the obvious, Clark. Give it up - this is one you're going to lose...........and lose badly.
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 11:58am EDT
Clark Kent -

"Exactly what is it about his experiences in Vietnam that has garnered him the untouchable label of "hero?" I'm anxiously waiting for this to be answered. I've asked previously, and nobody could offer anything. "

One small bubble here on Gather isn't enough space for me to tell you why McCain is a hero. Go and read "Faith of My Fathers" and maybe we can have a discussion after that. I doubt you'll take the time to give the guy a fair chance, though. You're just too much of a partisan hack.
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Jared P. May 19, 2008, 12:01pm EDT
You thought John Kerry flip flopped. Listen to McCain on ANY issue pre 2006. And listen to John McCain now. The guy is lying on EVERYTHING.
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Jared P. May 19, 2008, 12:05pm EDT
On his temper,

Can't wait for the debates. The guy is going to let it fly. I mean he is 72 and has a temper.
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Clark Kent May 19, 2008, 12:16pm EDT
"Kerry shamed himself when he tossed his medals."

Oh, I get it...a decorated war hero doesn't have the right to free speech. Got it.




"Kerry shamed himself during "Winter Soldier"."

Right. He was almost solely responsible for saving countless of American lives, by helping to end yet another US military debacle long before it would've, had delusional thoughts from delusional, twisted minds such as yours prevailed. Yes, he should be mocked and ridiculed for laying his life on the line for his country and then doing everything that he could to save more American lives. Shame on him. He'd have been FAR more heroic had he simply surrendered, right?




"Kerry shamed himself by lambasting lots of good, honest soldiers."

Examples? Are you referring to the way that you and your moonbat, kookjob wingnuts have villified the likes of Kerry, Murtha, and Cleland, by any chance?




"His service would have been unblemished, if only he'd just shut his big pie-hole "

Yes, because any fool knows that if there's one thing that American cannot tolerate, it's free speech, especially from those who've bled to preserve the right to it.





"That's not the kind of guy I want in the White House. "

Of course not. He's a decorated war hero. You go for the AWOL deserters and surrender monkeys.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 19, 2008, 12:17pm EDT
"YAWN!!!! Show me some CREDIBLE links, Doyle. "
Sorry Ivan . . . no cartoons for you. :P

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Clark Kent May 19, 2008, 12:26pm EDT
"McCain's torment in Hanoi is what makes him a hero.

This is, remarkably, even more lame than your lame, anti-American attacks against a decorated war hero.

WTF is "heroic" about basic human survival instinct, you moron? And, why did he surrender in the first place? If he were a REAL hero, he would've gone down fighting. Heroes aren't surrender monkeys, and surrender monkeys aren't heroes.




"The solid, supportive words of the most decorated War hero since Douglas McArthur (McCain's roommate in Hanoi for 2+ years, Bud Day) - makes him a hero."

Not so. Many highly decorated, high level military officials have said the same of Kerry, Murtha, and Cleland, among others, but that hasn't prevented you shameless, UnAmerican wingnuts from villifying them and denouncing them as heroes. Try again.




"You seem to be the only one denying the obvious, Clark. Give it up - this is one you're going to lose...........and lose badly."

You're an idiot. I'm not going to "lose" shit, by pointing out the obvious. He never did ANYTHING to achieve that hero status, and the rightwing HATES war heroes anyway.




"One small bubble here on Gather isn't enough space for me to tell you why McCain is a hero. "

Translation: I'm a pathetic partisan hack who hasn't a clue why Johnny "surrender monkey" McNon-hero" should be unquestionably lofted to hero status."

Here's a clue for you: The fact that he served in harm's way makes him worthy of accolades. Your boyfriend in the white house, along with all of your reichwing pundits and almost all of your reichwing politicians couldn't be bothered to do the same. It means SOMETHING. It does NOT, however, make him a "hero," by definition. Nor does his being shot down, nor does his rapid surrender to the enemy, nor does his devulging US secrets while a captive.

Now, I'm not dumb enough to think that this is going to ever become an issue, because I know it's not. Democrats have far too much respect for war veterans to ever try to slime one, like the repukes do whenever they have a chance. I'm simply saying that his "hero" status is bullshit.




"Go and read "Faith of My Fathers" and maybe we can have a discussion after that. "

How on earth would this be the least bit objective, you fool? WTF is wrong with you?
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Clark Kent May 19, 2008, 1:07pm EDT
You see? Once again, when cornered and asked to define specifically why John McCain is considered a hero, the rightwing is unable to do so. "He's a hero because he surrendered to the enemy," we're supposed to believe. "He's a hero because he was able to survive years in captivity," we're let to believe. He's a hero because he said so in his book. He's a hero because...well, just because, that's why.

And so, the conflated mythical fantasy continues. Nobody dares speak the truth, and suggest that he didn't actually do anything "heroic" as much he did what he needed to in order to survive.

If you want my definition of a hero, it's someone who is willing to throw their own life away to save somebody else's. John Kerry absolutely fits that description, but, because he had the unmitigated gall to exercise his right to free speech, his hero status has been completely revoked by the lunatic fringe wingnuts.

Instead, they've chosen to lavish that title on somebody who was acting entirely on self preservation alone. Remarkable.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 19, 2008, 1:15pm EDT
For his 20 hours (total in air) combat time, he was awarded the fruitsalad a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars , two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service gongs.

Counting medals, this 'hero' outweighs Murphy and Glenn, who both, for years, repeatedly performed extraordinary deeds on the ground or in the air against an armed enemy.

McCain's Silver Star narrative for the period 27 October 1967 the day after he was shot down to 8 December 1968 reads: "His captors… subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly towards the eventual abandonment…" of such harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese. Uh huh.

Yet in McCain's own words just four days after being captured, he admits he violated the U.S. Code of Conduct by telling his captors "O.K, I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."

A Vietnam vet detractor says, "He received the nation's third highest award, the Silver Star, for treason. He provided aid and comfort to the enemy!"

The rest of his valor awards issued automatically every year while he was a POW read much like the Silver Star. More boilerplate often repeating the exact same words. An example: "By his heroic endeavors, exceptional skill, and devotion to duty, he reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Naval Service and the United States Armed Forces."

The man was a tortured POW . . . but outside of that PAF (for his 20 hours spent over combat fields) all his medals were standard POW issue.

Hero? Not a chance.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 19, 2008, 1:32pm EDT
"You're not known for doing good, unbiased research like this."
LMAO ! ! ! ! Damn . . . you just get funnier and funnier!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 3:47pm EDT
Doyle -

Well, you aren't. But thanks for providing good links. Carry on with that.
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 4:04pm EDT
Clark Kent -

Bret : "Kerry shamed himself when he tossed his medals."

Clark : Oh, I get it...a decorated war hero doesn't have the right to free speech. Got it. "


No, he doesn't. Not when it is a bald-faced lie. And not when it is self-serving. And not when it smears fellow soldiers. Any military person will tell you how cowardly that kind of behavior is.

"And, why did he surrender in the first place? If he were a REAL hero, he would've gone down fighting."

Read the book, Clark. If you do, I promise you'll sound like less of a fool.
McCain was injured and unconscious when he was recovered by the Vietnamese, after the crash. There was no "surrender".

Bret : "The solid, supportive words of the most decorated War hero since Douglas McArthur (McCain's roommate in Hanoi for 2+ years, Bud Day) - makes him a hero."

Clark : Not so. Many highly decorated, high level military officials have said the same of Kerry, Murtha, and Cleland, among others, but that hasn't prevented you shameless, UnAmerican wingnuts from villifying them and denouncing them as heroes. Try again. "


Even you can't be THIS stupid, Clark.
Bud Day has gone on the record more than once, praising McCain's behavior from the moment he was brought in to Day's cell, to the moment they were all released, years later.

I think you're confusing what Kerry, Murtha, Cleland, McCain and Day did in battle, to what they did when they came home.

All 5 had honorable service records.

Kerry shamed himself almost immediately upon arriving back in the US, however. He did nothing extraordinary in Vietnam. His Vietnam record seems average. His record when he came home, however, is beyond shameful. If he did half the stuff he claims to have done, he should be prosecuted as a war criminal. However, I think he's just a liar instead.
Cleland seems to be a decent, honorable guy, and a legitimate war hero. I've always thought he was a good guy who would never speak badly about his fellow soldiers.
Murtha was great while he was in the Marines, and another legitimate war hero. It has only been in the last few years that he's gone off his rocker. Could it be senility, or has Left Wing dementia settled in?
McCain and Bud Day are good guys, and legitimate war heroes.
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C A. May 19, 2008, 4:07pm EDT
An absolutely flippant observation here........

Today, yet another friend told me that Obama is the "anti-Christ"....

That makes 3 people....

Now, I'm not saying..........

But if that number gets to 7...........
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Ivan N. May 19, 2008, 4:12pm EDT
LOL....A cartoon would be more credible. Keep trying, Doyle. Maybe you'll come up with one. I LOVE cartoons!!
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 4:16pm EDT
Clark Kent -

Bret : "Kerry shamed himself by lambasting lots of good, honest soldiers."

Clark : Examples? Are you referring to the way that you and your moonbat, kookjob wingnuts have villified the likes of Kerry, Murtha, and Cleland, by any chance?"


No, Clark.............Kerry's testimony at "Winter Soldier" was shameful, mostly disproven (remember Kerry's claim that he was in Cambodia in '68?), and was a bald-faced lie. He disgraced himself, and he disgraced his country.

Here's a refresher, in case you don't recall Kerry's Cambodia Lie :

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27211-2004Aug23.html

"You're an idiot. I'm not going to "lose" shit, by pointing out the obvious. He never did ANYTHING to achieve that hero status, and the rightwing HATES war heroes anyway."

You hate because you're being called out, and you have no defense for your bitter, bitter words, Clark. And yes, Clark, you will lose this one.
But I think you Leftist kooks should push your agenda of attempting to smear John McCain. You won't like the results.
We Conservatives love fellow brothers in arms.
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 4:20pm EDT
Clark Kent -

Bret : "You seem to be the only one denying the obvious, Clark. Give it up - this is one you're going to lose...........and lose badly."

Clark : You're an idiot. I'm not going to "lose" shit, by pointing out the obvious. He never did ANYTHING to achieve that hero status, and the rightwing HATES war heroes anyway. "


Over the many threads that we've had "discussions", I've noticed that when you (figuratively) get your head pushed down in the toilet, you start sputtering and cursing. It's hilarious when it happens - which seems to be a lot more often lately. I can almost see the little veins in your forehead bursting.....LOL
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Clark Kent May 19, 2008, 5:59pm EDT
"No, he doesn't.

You're wrong once again. Every American, ESPECIALLY decorated war heroes, have a right to free speech, you anti-American POS. Just because you don't like hearing the truth doesn't mean that nobody is supposed to utter it. Move to China if you don't like personal freedoms, asswipe, and stop trying to phuck up my country. Brave men and women have fought and died so that pathetic little chicken shits like you could have the right to spew your hatred and anti-American bile. You don't deserve it.



"Read the book, Clark."

Not the least bit interested in what this non-hero has to say about his surrender monkey status.




"Kerry shamed himself almost immediately upon arriving back in the US, however. He did nothing extraordinary in Vietnam. His Vietnam record seems average. "

That's sadly patethic and unAmerican even by your sadly pathetic and unAmerican standards. You truly are a dispicable person.




"You hate because you're being called out, and you have no defense for your bitter, bitter words, Clark. And yes, Clark, you will lose this one."

Wrong yet again, fool. I hate America haters, such as yourself, who annoint scum like a G. Gordon Liddy, an Oliver North, or a John McCain to "hero" status, merely because of their ideological bent, while at the same time, viciously attacking and villifying proven, highly decorated American war heroes, such as Kerry, Murtha, and Cleland. You, and your staunchly unAmerican, reichwing cowards, are unworthy to call yourselves Americans. You are pathetic, dispicable, loathesome scum.

You've done nothing to prove your claim that McCain is a "hero." He served in Vietnam, just as many hundreds of thousands of others did. Did he give his life to save a comrade? Nope. Did he run headlong into a throng of Vietcong, to break through a line and allow his fellow servicemen to conquer a piece of land? Nope. Did he lose 3 of his limbs while falling on a grenade to save his squad? Nope. Did he do ANYTHING truly heroic, or did he just serve?

He flew jets overhead, and dropped bombs indiscriminately at men, women, and children below. My, how "heroic."

Then, he managed to find a way to get shot down. "ooooh, now THAT"S heroic, huh?"

Then, he surrendered the second the enemy showed up, rather than standing and fighting, like John Kerry did.

Then, he almost IMMEDIATELY coughed up US secrets to the enemy. Well, now, THAT'S surely heroic, to an America-hater such as yourself, right?




"I've noticed that when you (figuratively) get your head pushed down in the toilet, you start sputtering and cursing.

That's some really funny shit, asshole, since everyone that's been here for any length of time knows all too well that it's YOU that's constantly picking toilet shit out from your teeth, as a result of your constantly failed and weak attempts to challenge the master here. You're a punk assed little bitch. You spew absolutely bullshit, then when challenged about it, you come back with nothing but more bullshit, spin, and outright lies, in order to try to save your pathetic face utter humiliation once again.

It doesn't work, trust me. There's not a person on this board that thinks that you've ever gotten the best of me, you pathetic fool. Why? Because you refuse to accept your own limits. You think you know everything, but you don't, and that's your grand mistake. You constantly post shit that's completely untrue, and then when you're asked to back it up, you cannot, so you resort to ridiculous spinning, lying, and distraction, in a vain attempt to pretend that you've "won."

That's another grand failure of yours. You never know when to shut the phuck up, but that goes back to your mistaken belief that you're always right. You just cannot accept the fact that you've been proven wrong, so you keep coming back, like the dumbass that you are, to have your face pummelled over and over and over again, by whomever happens to be handy and is willing to put forth the "extreme" effort it takes to do a 10 second google search to discredit your sorry ass and put your lies to rest.

You're truly a sad creature, bert. I feel for you, actually. Here you are, someone who obviously thinks far more highly of himself than those around you do, always finding ways to embarrass and humiliate yourself in public, because you're too pigheaded to realize when you've had your ass handed to you.

It really doesn't matter to me either way, frankly. I don't mind punching and kicking you around like a dried up hunk of dogshit, although there are times when I admittedly grow bored with your act. It's always the same thing. You make some ridiculous reichwing comment that's easily disproven, and then spend the rest of the thread spinning and lying to try to weasel your way out of your own comments. Anybody would get bored with making such an easy target look like such an easy target after a while.

No, bertie, you didn't prove to me that McCain was worthy of the "hero" title, nor did you prove to me that Kerry, Murtha, and Cleland (and anyone else who happens to wear a different ideological pin than you filthy reichwing America-haters) were UNWORTHY of the title.

One thing that you're right on though, bertie, and that is the comment that I made previously, that you agreed with. Democrats will not run with this in this campaign. Not because it's not worthy of discussion, but rather, because democrats don't shit on decorated American war veterans for political gain, while America-haters do.

America-haters such as yourself will stop at NOTHING to smear and denigrate your political opponent. There's a very good reason for this. Your side sucks. You have zero ideas, you're corrupt and filthy rotten to the core, you're cheaters, liars, thieves, warmongers, race-baiters, haters, fearmongers, and outright criminals, who haven't a clue what America stands for. America, in your diseased mind, is a battle ground, where liberals do battle against conservatives. You, and your entire party of diseased, sick minds, are fools, and you're destroying this nation.

Now, make sure you reply with some dumbass remark to make yourself feel that you've "won" somehow, in spite of what the record here shows. Fool.
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 19, 2008, 7:58pm EDT
"I LOVE cartoons!! "
No shit.
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Francis H. May 19, 2008, 8:03pm EDT
Anyone whose support for McCain is enhanced by these videos is either an idiot or a connosieur of double-talk and saying whatever it is that anyone wants to hear at any particular time. They either have no regard for integrity or their operational integrity is at the level of a $2 whore. They believe that people should be misinformed when they vote to promote their causes. They pretend to love Democracy yet they constantly subvert it as a reflex. They may or may not know they are anti-Democracy. In Bret's case, he does not know because he thinks that just because he's an American that he really supports this idea called Democracy.
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 10:31pm EDT
Clark Kent -

That was a really long-winded way to acknowledge that your arguments are weak.

McCain is a hero, and there isn't anything you can do about it. That's too bad - for you, because virtually EVERYBODY already knows it. But I suppose you can always try your hardest to hold back the floodgates.
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Bret W. May 19, 2008, 10:40pm EDT
Bret : "I've noticed that when you (figuratively) get your head pushed down in the toilet, you start sputtering and cursing.

Clark : That's some really funny shit, asshole, since everyone that's been here for any length of time knows all too well that it's YOU that's constantly picking toilet shit out from your teeth, as a result of your constantly failed and weak attempts to challenge the master here. You're a punk assed little bitch. You spew absolutely bullshit, then when challenged about it, you come back with nothing but more bullshit, spin, and outright lies, in order to try to save your pathetic face utter humiliation once again."


Temper, temper Clark.

I'd call that EVIDENCE.....LOL.
Do you not see that you just proved what I said above, Clark?
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Charles Temm JR May 20, 2008, 11:40am EDT
given the similarity on many (not all obviously) issues, I can't see why any liberal would not be pleased come fall as both major parties candidates are in the main in agreement except on degrees. If you are a fiscal conservative or Constitutionalist, this election has no ray of sunshine.

if Bob Barr gets the Libertarian nod, he will take enough votes to ensure a Democrat victory. The Republican base sure isn't happy with McCain, it remains to be seen if enough conservative Democrats/indies will make up for that when faced with the Democrat candidate.
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Kevin S. May 20, 2008, 12:54pm EDT
One thing I have always wondered. Bert was never able to answer this.. Suprise. Why did McSmae have his POW record sealed during the Vietnam normalization process. Bert?
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Kevin S. May 20, 2008, 12:55pm EDT
That should be McSame.. McSmae sounds like someone from Mr Rogers Neighborhood.
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Bret W. May 20, 2008, 5:00pm EDT
Kevin -

I have no idea why McCain had his POW record sealed.
If he was the one who had it sealed, I suppose no one will ever know.............and that includes you.

Now let me guess - you're going to go and speculate on it, right? LOL
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 21, 2008, 10:12am EDT
Absolutely right Francis!

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Doyle ( IS SOOO 7 for 7 soon... ) C. May 21, 2008, 10:18am EDT
"McCain is a hero, and there isn't anything you can do about it. "
I didn't catch HOW this might be considered true by anyone. I DID catch Clark's arguments, though. Still waiting for an answer from you about what exactly was heroic. I would be more than happy to find out he was a hero . . . just never heard ONE reason why people might say that.

"...as both major parties candidates are in the main in agreement except on degrees. "
Really? McCain and Obama are the same? Wow.

"Now let me guess - you're going to go and speculate on it, right? LOL "
The question was legitimate. Had the situation been reversed and it had been a sealed Obama record I guess you're going to pretend now that you would shrug it off? Pssst. That's hypocritical and you know it!

Thanks Ed

Regards,
Doyle I <~~~~~
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Kevin S. May 23, 2008, 12:58pm EDT
Bert it is public record... One other question? Why do you carry George's water?
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