In any case, I fiugred I would put my part of the transcript up here just so that people can get a feel for what the testimony was like. I was terrified, and not particularly articulate, as you can see.
Who is your next witness?
14 MS. TIBBETTS: Dale Cxxxxxx
15 THE COURT: Would you come around this way,
16 over here next to this chair, stand up here and raise
17 your right hand.
18 DALE CXXXXXX,
19 being first duly sworn
20 was examined and testified as follows:
21 THE WITNESS: I do.
22 THE COURT: You can be seated. And then state
23 your name for the record, please.
24 THE WITNESS: Dale Cxxxxxxxx.
25 THE COURT: And spell your last name.
1 THE WITNESS: C-XXXXXXXXX
2 DIRECT EXAMINATION
3 BY MS. TIBBETTS:
4 Q Mr. Cxxxxx, what is your address?
5 A XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
6 Q What is your relationship to Lillie Lenstrom?
7 A I am her nephew.
8 Q What is your relationship to Wilma Rudolph?
9 A I'm her brother.
10 Q What is your educational background?
11 A I have a bachelor's in computer science and a master's in
12 instructional technology.
13 Q Where did you receive those degrees from?
14 A Northern Illinois University.
15 Q When did you receive those degrees?
16 A The bachelor's in XXXX and the master's in XXXX.
17 Q Where are you employed?
18 A I'm employed at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and I also
19 work in the evenings at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
20 Q What do you do at Xxxxxxxxxx?
21 A I'm their computer support person, and I also teach
22 computer classes.
23 Q And what do you do at the night job?
24 A I teach computer classes there also.
25 Q When you were a child, did you visit with your aunt and
1 uncle Lillie and Ralph Lenstrom?
2 A Yes, we did.
3 Q How often would you visit with Ralph and Lillie when you
4 were a child?
5 A Well, pretty much every working day they brought their
6 son to stay with us while Aunt Lillie was at National
7 Lock from -- well, up to age, I think it was either eight
8 or ten, something in that order. We'd go over to their
9 house on weekends probably at least once or twice a
11 Q When you were a child, were you close to your Aunt Lillie
12 and your Uncle Ralph?
13 A Yes, we were.
14 Q When you became an adult, did you continue to visit with
15 your Aunt Lillie and Uncle Ralph?
16 A Yes, we did.
17 Q How often when you were an adult did you visit with
18 Aunt Lillie and Uncle Ralph?
19 A I would guess probably somewhere in the range of five to
20 ten times a year.
21 Q Would that be visits where you would come up here to
22 visit with them, or would they come down and visit with
24 A I would come up here to visit with them.
25 Q Do you have children?
1 A Yes, I do.
2 Q How old are they?
3 A I have a stepdaughter that's 25. I have a daughter
4 that's 14.
5 Q During the course of the years, have your daughter and
6 stepdaughter visited Aunt Lillie and Uncle Ralph?
7 A Yes, they have. My stepdaughter visited several times
8 both Ralph and Lillie and David, and my daughter has
9 visited quite often. She stayed over night at their
10 house a couple of times.
11 Q Prior to Ralph Lenstrom passing away, did you communicate
12 with Ralph on the telephone and/or via e-mail?
13 A Yes, we did -- yes, I did.
14 Q Would you describe your relationship with Ralph Lenstrom
15 as close prior to his passing away?
16 A Yes.
17 Q When David Lenstrom passed away, did you come up here to
18 the Rock County area to visit with Ralph and Lillie?
19 A Yes, I did.
20 Q Did you attend Ralph -- or did you attend Dave's funeral?
21 A Yes, I did.
22 Q When you came up to Wisconsin after David had passed
23 away, were you ever able to meet and speak privately with
24 your Aunt Lillie?
25 A On a few occasions, yes.
1 Q When you met with your Aunt Lillie, was anyone else
3 A Not always. I mean, there were times that the two of us
4 were alone.
5 Q Did you observe Cathy Simpson in relation to your
6 Aunt Lillie during the course of David's funeral?
7 A Yes, I did.
8 Q And what did you observe about Cathy's conduct with
9 Aunt Lillie during the course of David's funeral?
10 A Couldn't get -- there were just -- she was just all over
11 Aunt Lillie. It was -- it was like a barnacle. I spent
12 the entire funeral wanting to talk to Aunt Lillie alone
13 and say how sorry I was that David had passed away, and
14 that entire time I was there, I did not get an
15 opportunity to do that.
16 Q In November of 2003, did you have any conversations with
17 Matt Simpson about the possibility of Matt purchasing
18 David's farm?
19 A This was November of 2003?
20 Q Correct.
21 A Yes, I did.
22 Q Okay. Where did that conversation take place?
23 A It was at Janesville hospital; Ralph was at the hospital
24 at that time.
25 Q And what did Matt Simpson tell you about his desire to
1 purchase David's farm?
2 A He said that he wanted to purchase it. The work he was
3 doing was kind of a down payment. He intended it as
4 being kind of a down payment on the farm. He seemed
5 somewhat concerned that Ralph was sick and, you know, no
6 definite arrangements had been made, and I guess that
7 answers the question.
8 Q Did he -- did Matt Simpson discuss with you possibilities
9 of he and his wife caring for Aunt Lillie after Ralph
10 passed away?
11 A Yes, he did.
12 Q And what did Matt tell you?
13 A He said that -- I believe that that was the occasion that
14 he said that -- it was kind of that was part of the deal,
15 basically, the farm, you know, he would promise to take
16 care of Aunt Lillie if he got the farm.
17 Q And what was your response to these statements by Matt
19 A Well, I told him that as far as I was concerned, that as
20 long as, A, any deal that he made with the farm was fair,
21 and, B, as long as Aunt Lillie agreed to it, I didn't
22 have a problem. I didn't personally want the farm. He
23 asked me that, you know, whether or not I wanted the farm
24 personally. I said I did not, that my only concern was
25 that, you know, whatever deal they made was fair to
1 Aunt Lillie and Uncle Ralph and that Aunt Lillie was on
2 board with it.
3 Q Did you visit with your uncle Ralph Lenstrom at any time
4 in November of 2004?
5 A Yes, I did.
6 Q Where did you visit with Ralph Lenstrom in November of
8 A I visited with him at his home at Brandherm Road.
9 Q During that visit, did Ralph Lenstrom tell you that
10 David's farm had been sold to Matt and Cathy Simpson?
11 A No, he did not.
12 Q When you visited with Ralph Lenstrom in November of 2004,
13 did you also visit with Lillie Lenstrom?
14 A Yes, I did.
15 Q During the course of that visit, did Lillie Lenstrom tell
16 you that David's farm had been sold to Matt and Cathy
18 A No, she didn't.
19 Q Did you have any conversations with Matt Simpson on
20 December 22nd of 2004 about the value of David's farm?
21 A Yes, I did.
22 Q Where did that conversation take place?
23 A At David's farm. I had gone up there to get the last few
24 things of Wilma's out of the house, and Matt arrived
25 while -- Cathy was there initially. Matt arrived while
1 we were in the process of getting the stuff out.
2 Q And who initiated the discussion regarding the valuing of
3 David's farm?
4 A I believe it would have been Matt.
5 Q And what did Matt say?
6 A He said that basically -- he said that, yes, they got a
7 deal, but the tax assessment was around a little over
8 200,000, so he didn't feel that the price was
10 Q And what was your reaction to Matt's statements?
11 A Well, I think initially he had said that there was an
12 assessment involved, and I tried to pin him down as to
13 who had assessed, and then at that point he talked about
14 the assessment, and my reaction was, "Well, if it, you
15 know, if you think it's reasonable" -- well, he had asked
16 also about the investigation that John Fitzgerald was
17 doing, although he didn't mention John's name. And I
18 said, "Well, if you feel that it's reasonable, you know,
19 that this is a reasonable price, what you really need to
20 do is get, you know, use whatever input you have on Ralph
21 to get Ralph and Wilma, talk things over, find out
22 exactly what is going on, you know, if it is
23 unreasonable, then that's -- if it's reasonable, then
24 yeah, then it's reasonable."
25 Q During that discussion about the John Fitzgerald
1 investigation, did Matt Simpson indicate to you whether
2 he wanted the investigation dropped or dismissed?
3 A He brought it up twice during the conversation and seemed
4 concerned about it. I don't believe he specifically
5 said -- asked me to drop it. I really don't think I
6 would have had the ability anyway.
7 Q Did you discuss with Matt Simpson any conversations you
8 had had with Lillie Lenstrom about whether or not she was
9 aware of the land contract?
10 A I don't believe I did. I did tell him that I had -- that
11 I had talked to Ralph, and Ralph had denied selling it to
12 them because of Lillie's objections.
13 Q Did you have any discussions with Lillie Lenstrom about
14 whether or not she had sold the farm to David -- or to
15 Matt and Cathy?
16 A Yes, I did.
17 Q When did you have that conversation with Lillie?
18 A Let's see. It would have been on November -- I believe
19 it was the 24th, the first time I came up to get Wilma's
20 stuff out of David's.
21 Q And did Lillie Lenstrom disclose to you that she had sold
22 David's farm?
23 A No, she did not. She denied having sold it.
24 Q What was Lillie's reaction to your telling her that there
25 was a land contract?
1 A She didn't seem to believe that. I also talked with her
2 after I had -- after I had talked to Matt Simpson, and I
3 told her that he had said that it was sold, and she said
4 that it's not sold and it's not going to be sold.
5 Q Were you present at the Lenstrom home when Cathy Simpson
6 and Lillie were also present January 5th of 2005?
7 A Yes, I was.
8 Q Who else was present other than yourself and Cathy and
10 A Her husband Red was there also.
11 Q During that January 5th, 2005 visit, were there any
12 discussions about whether or not Cathy and Matt had
13 purchased David's farm?
14 A Yes, there was.
15 Q And what, if anything, did Cathy Simpson say during the
16 course of that conversation?
17 A She told Lillie that "It's not sold. It's still yours.
18 We're just renting."
19 Q Did you ever have an argument or an unpleasant encounter
20 with Matt Simpson at his place of work?
21 A No, I did not.
22 Q Did you have any discussions with Matt Simpson about what
23 he intended to do with the contents of David's home after
24 the purchase?
25 A Yes. When I went up there on, I guess it was December
1 22nd, he had said that one of the reasons why they were
2 building the garage was so they could put David's
3 furniture in there when they moved in.
4 MS. TIBBETTS: I have no further questions.
5 Thank you.
6 THE COURT: Mr. Terschan?
7 MR. TERSCHAN: Just a few, Your Honor.
9 BY MR. TERSCHAN:
10 Q Did you ever work on Mr. Lenstrom's computer?
11 A Yes, I did.
12 Q Did you go through it after he died?
13 A You mean -- yeah, I did go through the files.
14 Q So you were going through the files, and being a computer
15 teacher or involved in computers heavily, you were able
16 to manipulate the files and work with them?
17 A I was able to look at them, yeah.
18 Q Now, you've indicated your relationship with Ralph
19 Lenstrom was close, I believe you said?
20 A Yes.
21 Q What kind of things did you do with Ralph?
22 A Well, he's been part of my life since I was -- about the
23 time I was born.
24 Q Well, let's talk about the last five years, then. In the
25 last five years, what kind of things would you do with
2 A Well, let's see. When my daughter was about seven, we
3 went down to the river and both tried to catch frogs for
4 her when she asked us to.
5 Q Was that within the last five years?
6 A Let's see, she was about seven. No, I guess it would
7 have been seven years. Well, pretty much every year we
8 would go up and we had a family get-together and kind of
9 a potluck. We'd have that every year. When I would go
10 in -- when I would go up there, I'd pretty much chat with
11 Ralph. In the later years, he talked a lot about his
12 Korean War experiences.
13 Q How often did you see him in the last five years?
14 A As I pointed out earlier, an average of probably a range
15 of probably five to ten times a year.
16 Q Now, you said you had a conversation with Matt about the
17 value of the farm?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q And that took place where?
20 A December 22nd. It was at David's house, the Highway 81
22 Q Okay. Did that discussion -- was that discussion amiable
23 or heated or hostile?
24 A Not particularly heated.
25 Q Just a discussion?
1 A Just a discussion, yeah.
2 Q When you spoke to Ralph about the sale of the property
3 when you asked him whether he had sold it, when was that?
4 A That would have been -- it was the end of November,
5 probably about the 27th or 28th.
6 Q And are you sure he didn't tell you to mind your own
8 A No. He said -- I asked him if the property had been
9 sold. He said that it had not because Aunt Lillie had --
10 well, actually what he said was that the -- he had tried
11 to put together something where Matt and Cathy got kind
12 of right of first refusal on the farm, but Aunt Lillie
13 did not want to do that, so it had been dropped.
14 At the same time I asked him if the trust had
15 been given, and he had pretty much the same response that
16 Aunt Lillie didn't want to. She wanted to take care of
17 herself or choose who would take care of her, and so
18 she -- so nothing had been done.
19 MR. TERSCHAN: All right. That's all I have.
20 THE COURT: You may step down. Thank you.
21 Next witness.