Let's face the truth. It is much easier for me, an Obama supporter, to want to join with my fellow democrats this morning and let bygones be bygones. However, my bias stated, I believe Clinton people also want to join together, so I offer my hand in friendship and unity. I won't gloat and you have the right to be disappointed. Hillary's campaign was powerful, if not powerful enough.Any realist knows the math demonstrates Obama is the nominee and if Hillary loves this country as much as I believe she does, she needs to let her Ego go. I am sorry she was described as 'toast' this morning, but even though she is a formidable candidate and may have been the first great female president, she has now lost. Sometimes the referees need to kick the losers out of the ring before they hurt themselves further.
Democrats need to get serious and join as one if we intend to take our country back. That is the only way we can effectively move forward, which the world wants and needs us to do. I tend to think the November election is perhaps the most important in my lifetime. A democratic win in November is crucial, so we have to be smart and stop shooting ourselves in the foot.
Obama has been attacked both from within and without, and he has shown his stuff. Yes he is charming, charismatic, witty and half-black, as he is also half-white, strong, tolerant, inventive and a leader with the fortitude and intellect necessary for these trying times. Truthfully? If he were purple or four foot eleven I wouldn't care. He can bring people together and for the common good. Americans can remain independent and individualized, but we must repair our society. I am not responding to his rhetoric, I am responding to my own beliefs. We need to bring our country back to its great beginnings where it is one for all and all for one, no matter how modest or vulnerable that one is.
Barack may ambitiously want to be president, but our country needs what he brings to the table a heck of a lot more than he needs us. Common sense coupled with intellect, compassion, understanding, kindness, strength and character are about the best combination you could find in a president. He's the real deal and thank God he is patriotic and wants to put up with all the crap a candidate must endure. I could never have tolerated the personal attacks... which I would appreciate you remembering, by the way, if you comment on this article.
The moans of those claiming Obama could not win have been debunked, even though some blue collar workers, old white women and voter-lights have been more comfortable with Hillary Clinton. Hey, I respect their right to have wanted Hillary to be president. I liked the policies of Dennis Kucinich - particularly getting out of Iraq and the impeachment of Bush/Cheney - but I didn't think he had the leadership qualities required to take this country forward. Many of you may have felt Hillary was a better November candidate. Again, I respect your opinion, even if I politely disagree.
Sadly, great people may not make great presidents. Heck, some great people even make lousy husbands, wives, fathers and mothers. If my vote is going to make a difference, which I still believe it does, I have to be realistic and tolerant of others but I also hope to convince you to think this way too.
Prior to this primary campaign I didn't like Hillary, but I would have voted for her in the general election were she the nominee. Why? Because I would not have wanted McCain for too many reasons to discuss here other than to say, more of the same. I also believe she would have done most of the things that would have mattered to me personally as a patriotic American. The Iraq War vote, however, was a big concern.
I would now ask her supporters to hold their noses if they must, but please come over to our side. I confess to having been so pro-Obama that I have been obnoxious and undoubtedly annoyed some of my Hillary-supporting friends and perhaps many of you as well. It was certainly awkward for anyone who disagreed to hear me rant and rave, for which I now apologize. Not the ranting, of course, just the fact that I was obviously a tiresome bore.
I do respect others' right to vote for their candidate, I only hope Clinton-ites won't become McCain supporters by default, without giving Obama a closer look. Remember, it is now a fact that Hillary cannot win the nomination unless there is some super-delegate shake-up against popular vote or Barack is run over by a truck, neither of which I expect to happen. Nobody else does either, so we have to move forward. Gratefully I will thank Hillary. She should remain a national voice.
Now for congrats where they are due. Hillary was the first viable female presidential candidate, and little girls across the country can now realistically hope to become president too. It is no longer a question of if it could happen, but when it will happen. That is a triumph of its own, Hillary. I thank you and the 21st century thanks you.
However, not only do we have international problems accentuated by global terrorism, but our economy is in shambles. For the majority of people this may become one of the worst economic periods since the depression. Sadly, our societal infrastructure cannot be the safety net it was in the past as families are segregated geographically and fractured in ways that are not easily remedied. If something isn't done to help many people now and others soon-to-be on hard times, more children will forfeit medical care and even more of them will go to bed hungry. The reality of hunger here is a national disgrace as every democrat knows, so I will move on.
The world has been waiting for America to grow up since these last eight years have imprisoned us in a regressive, Republican-dominated semi-McCarthyism. We've learned to point fingers anonymously, suspect others by even mild association, judge others guilty until proven innocent, tolerate torture, think we are have-nots if somebody else has, and legitimize the loss of habeus corpus as we turn angrily against each other.
It may feel awkward at first, but we can make the decision to reach out to try to improve the common good. Humans may be warring tribal people, but if one believes we have the ability to evolve into higher beings, it is time to let those ugly behaviors fade and die. An old Chinese proverb cautions if you are seeking revenge, dig two graves. One for your enemy and the second for yourself.
It is my hope that my fellow Democrats will be able to return to more thoughtful domestic and international approaches that will park the warrior and utilize our entire arsenal of better skills. Hopefully these will include a new emphasis on compassion and diplomacy, both of which have been lost-in-translation in the Bush administration's quagmire of failures and failed policies.
Our militarized manner of solving problems throughout our country's history can no longer be the first option we try. The proliferation of nuclear technology has changed the game plan and requires that cooler minds be allowed to dominate the Oval Office in the future. The problems we face internationally have been grossly exascerbated by the Bush Bunglers and Exploiters in a frenzy of Global Carpet Bagging. We will be paying for these sins for decades as evidenced by our annual national deficit and increasing international debt, not to mention the loss of trust and destruction of our reputation throughout the world. America is seen as a greedy, hypocritical warmonger, intent on gobbling up any of the world's resources that we do not already hoggishly consume.
It makes me weep to think that other peoples are afraid of America, but as even I am afraid of America under this administration, who can reassure them? George Bush's automatic shoot-em-up, Texas-style reflex has failed miserably along with its horrid exportation of jobs, profits and growing global militarization. These mis-guided policies are the most aggregious threats to our borders since Pearl Harbor. Not only have we antagonized our non-allies but our allies as well. All of Europe is holding its breath to see if we do elect Senator Obama.
This militarization is evidenced not just in Iraq and other hot spots, but in this administration's attempts to convince Mexico to use their military to do the police work needed against the drug trade. Throwing money across the border for arms since the Reagan days has been deemed simpler than dealing with the source of demand, our homegrown addicts. (Ed H. of Gather has a Drug Chronicles article published this week about how we are offering a half billion dollars to Mexico in military aid, while we continue to criminalize our sick and weak. In his article the Mexican intellectuals' and politicians' present opposing reactions and thoughtful concerns about our strong-arming. Whether you agree or not, it will present a completely different viewpoint you will not find anywhere officially.)
How can financing the weapons industry be a better solution to drug addiction than setting up treatment centers and other medical facilities addicts need? One must ask how smart a policy it is to arm another nation that could one day turn those same weapons on us. If we can ever learn from history, perhaps we should review the chapter about how our government supplied military aid to Saddam Hussein shortly before he invaded his neighbors, poisoned and gased competing ethnic groups and murdered and imprisoned so many Iraqi civilians.
Every Narc knows drug demand and the lure of huge profits continue to fuel that industry and cause an ever-increasing burden on our society. Any lay person familiar with addiction issues also knows there is a more humane approach. Addicts need medical intervention and help, not jail time. Dealers are another story, but the real demand is from those who have fallen victim to addiction. Resources can be better spent on solving that problem rather than punishment after the fact.
Democrats and other thoughtful people recognize taking away our rights does nothing to assure 'homeland' or global security. We cannot live in fear terrorized by the future or haunted by the past. Before we continue our empire-building, the nation building needed is here at home. How many bridges, runways, highways, school systems,medical delivery systems, reservoirs, train tracks and other parts of critical infrastructure have been allowed to deteriorate while our soldiers and financial treasure are uselessly squandered abroad.
Had 1.2 trillion dollars been directed toward all types of alternative energy technologies, there would have been no incentive for the Bush/Cheney team to go to war against Iraq. Ooops. I forgot. We are not supposed to now say we went there to steal their oil, even if it turns out that was the Bush administration's secret plan all along. Shame on us for allowing the saber rattling to set fire to an entire region. Some of us knew better, but nobody listened because we were too afraid to risk once Colin Powell lied through his teeth in front of the United Nations.
Our trust has been sorely abused, but like an old dog I am coming back, tail wagging, limping to the campaign office, all the while hoping Obama will be the one who will keep his word. I don't expect him to be perfect; I do expect him to keep his administration's policies transparent and to tell us the damn truth.
To accomplish anything at all we need to stop bickering and pleasuring ourselves when one democratic candidate bleeds or winces because of wounds inflicted by the other. We must join hands, rise above our pettiness, and move forward like the amazing group of involved and invested voters we have become. There is a lot more Americans have in common with each other than not. I thank Barack Obama for reminding us of that, among many other things. We are one people and we can have one mind.
In the meantime, I choose to believe Americans will do the right thing. Democrats, Republicans, Greens and Independents can all support Obama. In November we may not need to reach across the aisle because there may not be one. I'll give a little if you will. Honestly, I've been married somehow for 31 years so I know it is possible for extremely stubborn, opinionated people to get along and have a great life.
My hopeful post may be considered foolish by some, but I have faith in my neighbors, my countrymen and myself. It can and will be a better world in January because you and I care and we are willing to sacrifice for the common good. Why? Because the majority of Americans are great people with hearts the size of Wisconsin.
Welcome back, neighbor.
God Bless America!


Comments: 65
I do hold a grudge against Obama for staying with Wright where Oprah distanced herself from him.
I am familiar with Clinton's foibles but I am willing to accept them, mostly because of Bill.
Obama is just not a tried candidate yet, in my mind.
Your article is Featured in the Triple Name Club.
You certainly have a point, Danielle. It was not necessarily a good thing.
Lisa B., I agree with you, but bygones be bygones, and thanks for the laugh, Lera.
Either one of them will recieve a vote of confidence from me.
However when the issues are laid out, intelligent people will vote on the issues. John McCain will appoint at least one supreme court justice. He has said he will overturn Roe v Wade. If that's what one wants, this would be a good time to leave the party and go John McCain, for example.
Barack Obama has now the opportunity to display his skills of uniting the party. However Clinton surrogates are all over the place saying he can't win. I just heard Lanny Davis going on and on about that. They have not started to heal the party. They are angry, give them a few days. I am confident Obama will do a great job bringing people together. McCain will help him a lot.
When John McCain starts talking more, he will remind democrats why they are democrats.
Besides, if our country is going to learn how to work together, we need to compromise and that means even when we do win you'll get your way part of the time.
That is the only way a civilized society can work. We all have to respect each other and take turns. Things are going to get better in any event, and I am looking forward to that. Not all conservative values are bad, of course, and I have a few of them myself.
It will take me a few days too. For now, I am going at them like a 7 year old because I am happy like a 5 year old. I will take my 72 hours to poke fun them. They are just a femto to nano size on the scale of things, so I don't really care. They've been talking trash for months, now they are served. LOL
Really, after a week or two and when John McCain tells them about his Judges that will ban abortion, his healthcare plan, they will wake up. Also I have such confidence in Barack going in and convincing some of the party big wigs to campaign for him and turn things around. Rendell and Bob Casey will deliver Penn. The electoral map will be different. Anyways rest of the week is celebration week. Obama supporters deserve it. They heard a lot of BS for 15 months.
Yes We Can!
I admire the way you turn a phrase.
Let's join together behind Barack.
Tim, respectfully I think you are underestimating the American people's intelligence. Once the real campaign starts and John McCain's non-starters are exposed for what they are and the impact they will have, Senator Obama will develop that base and it will be a national majority.
What his opponents cannot seem to understand is that he can influence people and he will continue to gain supporters the more he campaigns. Truth will overcome all the old political machines because the economy now has the public's attention. The average American is willing to sacrifice for the good of the country, but not for the good of the corporations. Every poll shows that people are willing to pay more in taxes for the guarantee of the American way of life. Hence, we are starting to enter into an age of realism. The profits of the last decade have been at the expense of the average American, and that needs to be balanced back to something fair.
I believe Obama, with the greater public's support, can fight the special interests and I'll eat my shoe after his first term if he isn't successful on many levels in doing that. I don't expect this will be unraveled in his first term, but by his second we should have some measurable progress.
However, I simply don't share your hopeful belief in the American people's intelligence. All around me I see Boobus Americanus. Challenge me otherwise, please.
Americans are incredibly real once they start listening and they make good decisions if they are not lied to or deceived. The ring of truth will by in Obama's voice and he will win. I have faith, I really do, as I have seen a conversion among the people I know in the last year and it is real and lasting if not loud.
I was especially disappointed at the way long-time Clinton supporters were treated during this campaign. The banning of Begala and Carville on CNN as commentators at the request of the Obama camp....................and the "burning at the stake" of Geraldine Ferraro as a "racist" particularly incensed me as a Clinton supporter.
I sense that Obama's people are already planning a party "cleansing" operation of Clinton supporters, similar to what the Left Wing of the party did to Joe Lieberman back in 2006.
I think you're overlooking one major fact that Hillary has on her side, that Obama doesn't : she has the demographics to get into the White House.............Obama doesn't. Sure, he'll win the Y&D college kid vote, the Latte Liberals and the black vote. And that may be enough in the Democratic race. But in the general election, he just doesn't have the bedrock Centrist vote. McCain does.
Candidly, I don't think it is that cut and dry. Even a non-Hillary supporter like me, even if she did manipulate and gain the Super Delegate majority - a mathematical impossibility at this point it seems unless the S.Ds. flip - I would support her rather than McCain. Once the Media - Internet included - focus on McCain's flawed policies and chameleon-behaviors, any alternative will look good.
I believe in Obama and think he will be good for the country, and I don't believe less-educated whites are racists or will vote at the expense of their own benefit and pocketbook. This country is very prejudiced in many areas, like every other country, but I think we can rise above our pettiness for the good of our troops, our countrymen and our own enlightened self-interest.
Let's hope I'm right, but if you are, Bret, you can say "I told you so". And maybe I'll eat my sock instead of my shoe for losing the bet, okay?:)
I don't think any election has so clearly illustrated the need to end the political party system and allow candidates to run on their own merit. The past two elections, with the recounts and chads were bad enough, but the infighting between party candidates has made a louder statement. The time for parties is over. Let's elect serious, sincere, qualified candidates.
Hillary has a point - her voters are not folks who will easily convert to Obama voters.
Her constituency is much more likely to go over to McCain's side in a general election, than over to Obama's side.................even though we're all Democrats. A huge portion of Reagan Democrats are Clinton Democrats. I count myself as one. And there is no way most of us will elect a Socialist like Obama as our President.
Its all about the issues, Elizabeth. And Obama's promises to raise taxes scare the hell out of most of us.
"I believe in Obama and think he will be good for the country"
I'm now curious. What has Obama done (not just articulated) to make you feel this way?
I am always amazed by people afraid of having their taxes raised, so they end up letting the top 1% get the tax cuts while we crash and burn our national economy. I would imagine that you want bridges that won't collapse, the troops to have everything they need including appropriate and accessible medical care, fire and police and good public education. I would also imagine you want highways without potholes, a strong military and good representation in Washington and on a local level, along with somebody to pick up your trash and help your aged parents maneuver the medicare system. Society is very complex and people want to get paid for what they do. I would imagine you enjoy getting paid for your work too.
It is about issues, Bret. But it is also about our quality of life, our reputation in the world, our homeland security, and the future our children and grandchildren will inherit.
With the deficits, the national debt, the quagmire in the Middle East and our own American infrastructure in horrible condition after fifty years of patch up jobs.... I am not afraid of paying more in taxes. I say this and I am in the financial services industry which is experiencing a collapse.
Hillary's core may not all come over, but we don't need everybody either. McCain is not the answer.
"I believe in Obama because he is candid with us. He tells it like it really is. Beyond that, I believe he respects his parents, his grandparents, his wife and his children. I also believe he respects the American people enough to tell us the truth."
I could say the exact same thing about John McCain, and in addition I could toss in a distinguished military career and a long track record in the Senate. He's well known for telling us the truth, even when it hurts his political standing. I don't see that sort of "going out on a limb" from Obama.
What I'm asking is : "what is so much more compelling about Obama, than McCain?"
Because honestly, I don't see it..............and I'm looking!
"I am always amazed by people afraid of having their taxes raised, so they end up letting the top 1% get the tax cuts while we crash and burn our national economy."
Being a Conservative Reagan Democrat, raising taxes doesn't make sense. They're already too high. I believe in shrinking the size of government, not expanding it. We're not doing well with the amount we're spending now...............so why increase it? I see no compelling reason.
For all the reasons you articulated, throwing more money at those problems doesn't make it better. In fact, it makes in noticeably worse.
"It is about issues, Bret. But it is also about our quality of life, our reputation in the world, our homeland security, and the future our children and grandchildren will inherit."
Agreed.
However, I still haven't heard a compelling argument from Obama why I should give him more of my tax dollars. I've gone to barackobama.com and looked at his plans, and frankly, they shock me at their size, scope, and magnitude. Last night after reviewing all the programs and Entitlements he says he wants to implement, I came away with a sense of profound stunned amazement that someone running for President could be so naive. I mean, how's he going to pay for all that stuff?
"With the deficits, the national debt, the quagmire in the Middle East and our own American infrastructure in horrible condition after fifty years of patch up jobs.... I am not afraid of paying more in taxes. I say this and I am in the financial services industry which is experiencing a collapse. "
All great reasons NOT to turn it over to someone who has no experience.
"Hillary's core may not all come over, but we don't need everybody either. McCain is not the answer."
One thing I like about both Hillary and McCain..............they get into details. In Hillary's case, she loves diving into them. When you go to a Hillary or a McCain rally, you definitely get a sense that these people know what they're talking about, and how to get things done. When you go to an Obama rally, its more like an Amway meeting. Full of euphoria and hype, and short on facts.
Does that logic not kick in somewhere for supporters of Obama? I'm seriously asking a question.........
Also, the details that candidates discuss now are merely concepts and will not necessarily be implemented once one of them becomes president. The congress and the senate are the law-making body in our government, and there will have to be some negotiating for anything meaningful to happen. We've seen this before and will see it again. Hillary is a smart woman and I am sure her policies have great merit in many areas. She is just not going to be the nomineee, so we have to move on.
I find people who refuse to accept responsibility, whether it is in pooled resources for running our country or child support, always think somebody else can take care of it. I am not saying you are one of these, but things are not going well, Bret, for most Americans in the middle and lower classes. One example is health care. Things are certainly not going well for those of us who must rely on oursselves for medical insurance. I am in that category and pay $1,000 a month for a 70% paid policy that covers sick care only. I have a $3000 annual deductible, but the deductible is applied to only covered expenses, meaning that all my post-cancer follow-up screening is not covered. My last colonoscopy, which I must get annually, cost $3500 after the doctor, the hospital, the anesthesiologist and the labs. My other screening labs were not covered. Over the last five years I have spent an average of $20,000 a year just to keep myself insured and screened appropriately. I survived a cancer diagnosed in December 2000, and my premium is not based on my health but my age of 58. I am now completely healthy, but no one will insure me so I cannot change companies.
Should I, in enlightened self-interest, vote for McCain? I don't think so. He thinks everything is fine the way it is and that the corporations and the highest income earners need a tax break. Obama is talking about the middle class getting a tax break.
My insurance is a private policy with Blue Cross as I am self employed and cannot belong to a group. Group policy premiums in my state are regulated, but individual policies are not. I can also not write off that premium, so in order to pay it, I have to earn $1600 a month. Otherwise I go on the public health care system and the taxpayers pay for my treatment. This is a broken policy when my insurance costs more than it would for me to send my kid to college.
There is no trickle down in this corporate/profit-driven economy. This government is supposed to be for and by the people, not the corporations. The republicans have had things their way for a long time and this huge mess we are in now - the never-ending war, exploitation of other people and our middle and lower classes, depreciating housing/infrastructure/education - was dominated by their failed policies.
As far as 'experience'? McCain is a great hero and no one is undervaluing his sacrifice for this country or his service. Unfortunately the man admitted he has no economic understanding and as I disagree with him on military matters, he is not my guy. Call me bigoted, but I also think he is too old for the responsibility of the presidential office Heck, I think I am too old for motherhood, which is definitely correct. The military thinks people over, what, 42 since they got desperate for recruits or whatever the new age limit is, are too old to be grunts (hope that's not a derogatory term). There are some things that we cannot do, even if our mothers are 90 years old and still vertical.
Experience, Bret, is what got us into this mess. If Obama doesn't fit your definition of what is needed in that regard, I think that's a positive. I want judgment, just like he says. I look at his life, his works, his background and I think I can relate to the man. He's been on all sides. My son graduated from Harvard but my father, a working man, never went to college. Everyone from the time my kid was in 2nd grade joked they would vote for him for president. And they would be right. At twenty-six he could do a much better job than Bush, and that is not an exaggeration. Then again, I could have done a better job... but that's another arrogant rant.:)
I think we can respectfully disagree on this subject, Bret. I don't have to defend Obama, however, as he does a wonderful job of that himself. We need fresh blood, fresh thinking, diplomatic skills, and to pull together. This election is too important to let our fears control our brains. I know voting for Obama was and is the right thing for me to do. I am sure you will also follow your conscience, and if we don't agree? That's okay, as the majority will decide this for us. That's the greatness of America.
"Respectfully, Bret, you will not convince me or anyone like me that McCain is the answer."
I'd rather you convince me, point by point, why Obama is the superior Presidential candidate. I honestly don't think you can. I don't think anyone can..........mainly because I don't think it's true. I'd like to believe in Obama, but logic and reason don't dictate that he's the best choice.
My faith in God may be that strong, but my faith in Man, especially a politician is very weak......lol.
After reading about your cancer, I now understand why you like Obama. His promise of universal coverage would take all your costs away, wouldn't it?
Once again, I have to ask : how will Obama pay for something like that?
With you being in the financial services business, how will Obama's balance sheet tally up at the end of each year? How will he balance the books with such a shaky economy? Who will be called upon to pay for virtually EVERY government program Obama wants to fund?
I had great insurance when I went through cancer treatment - prompting my oncologist to say, "Oh, don't worry. You have Blue Cross, the gold standard of insurance. You'll make it." That was the criteria. Not that I had a stage 3a tumor out of 1a to 4b stages, but that I had the insurance that would pay for the best treatments and the best doctors.
That blew my mind! There were a lot of people who didn't get such great medical care in my cancer support group who are no longer with us. I was lucky, but now I am heartbroken and angry that these people were denied the same chance I had. It is unconscionable and a disgrace to this great nation that we must ration and parcel out health care to only those who can pay.
My cancer survivor friends were wonderful people, many of whom had worked in low-paying jobs like social services and non-profits, and when they got sick they lost their jobs and soon after their insurance.
It was horrible to see and there was nothing I could personally do to help them. Who has a spare $50,000 or $1,000,000 to help someone with cancer or needing a stem cell transplant and a year's hospitalization in intensive care?
Uh Oh... here I go ranting and raving again. The reality is, Bret, that you and I differ on what society's debt is to the poor and vulnerable. Many men who have had opportunity given to them - and have worked very very hard for what they have - are reluctant to create dependencies. I agree with you on this point in many ways, but some things are a right. Access to health care should be one of those in my opinion and I think the cost, without the insurance companies, would be manageable. Every other Western country in the world has managed to do this.
I am concerned about children with rotting teeth and who have never had medical treatment, pregnant women who cannot afford prenatal vitamins or care and those caught in between who find themselves priced out of medical care. I am lucky, as I am a good earner generally and have assets that I can sell off for a while still if I needed to, but what about the people who are living on their credit cards because otherwise they couldn't pay their rent or buy food for themselves or their kids?
All I have to point out, Bret, is that our country pays for war without batting an eye but thinks medical care isn't worth providing. Our veterans are coming home and having to wait months and even over a year for mental health services. MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES! What kind of values are these? The reality is that poor people cannot afford our wonderful medical care and they will therefore live shorter lives, their children will have less opportunity and in the end they will all have less productive lives and give less to society.
Not renewing the top 1%'s tax cut would almost cover the universal health care cost. The balance would be paid by working Americans, who are more than willing to do that by a majority. Taking a small amount out of our checks each month makes sense.
I hope that you and yours are never in the position of poor health. Before I got deathly ill (from the cancer treatments), I had privately thought quite arrogantly things like, "If I were completely paralyzed and could only hold a pencil between my teeth to hit a computer keyboard, I would still work."
Let's say after six months of treatment and another six of recovering from the treatment, I was willing to eat those words. As a matter of fact, I was ashamed I ever thought them. But for the grace of God go I ... that is how I live my life, Bret, and why I think we need someone like Barack Obama who is capable of true compassion.
He will be one of the great presidents and then everyone will say, Elizabeth was right.
I've already lived in Canada, so I know what Socialized medicine looks like, feels like, and costs. Even though it sounds convenient, we do not want that here.................and that system is very similar to what Barack Obama has proposed on his website. It isn't at all what you think it is. And the cost is not what you think it is either.
"The reality is, Bret, that you and I differ on what society's debt is to the poor and vulnerable."
Exactly, Elizabeth.
This country provides an opportunity to be more than you came into this world as..................it does not provide the money, insurance, or means to be great. Just the opportunity. That's it. Once here, then you have to produce.
Elizabeth, although I like you, I don't want to pay for your costly health problems. I feel badly that you have cancer, and I wish it wasn't so.............but it is.
I want to pay only for mine, and for my family's health problems. I think you'll find this sentiment extremely prevalent in this country from those of us who will be truthful about it. I'd feel this way even if one of my children developed something terrible. It is mine to deal with. I would never want "the system" to pick up the tab. I just couldn't find it within myself to allow that to happen. If I couldn't pay for treatment, I'd sadly have to watch my child die. A horrible thought, but I wouldn't change my morals just to suit the situation.
"All I have to point out, Bret, is that our country pays for war without batting an eye but thinks medical care isn't worth providing."
The reason : wars are temporary, health care goes on forever.
Even this costly war in Iraq is cheap in comparison to the unending cost of the health care bill for America, which will come due every December 31 - forever.
This war in Iraq will end. The costs will wane. That part is just simple accounting.
"He will be one of the great presidents and then everyone will say, Elizabeth was right."
Obama?
How so? By implementing universal health care? I don't think that will do it. How Obama finances it all will be the true test of his greatness...........should he become President.
This argument alone is not a compelling one, Elizabeth. Convince me that Obama won't bankrupt the nation doing this.
Are you a bit of the Pollyanna or just misguided about what can happen in life? Controlling as I can be at times, I do know I am powerless over just about everything in life other than my own actions and reactions. Some drunk coming down the wrong side of the highway at 60 miles an hour could change my life forever.
Poor health is the number one reason families go bankrupt and the main cause of generational poverty. Social promotion, the modern answer to inadequate education, is the second one, but that often follows poor health of someone in the family with the others having to pitch in to support everyone.
I don't know where people get the idea that those who are struggling financially are all a bunch of lazy bums. Yes, there are some out there, but they are the minority of the poor or they are physically and mentally ill, which would include drug and alcohol addiction. (Yes, I would guess you think addiction is a choice, another point on which we will surely disagree.)
Most people are struggling to try to climb that opportunity ladder, but they are not as lucky as you or me, or perhaps they were not able to plan as well. I am from an old New England family and I can trace those parts that didn't do well and the others that did extremely well. It was all about health. We are all maniacally hard workers, but some did better than others and it was all health genetics or war injuries based on the records.
As I said, I don't need you to pay my insurance premiums or health care, as I can do that. I'm healthy and hard-working and well enough. Should I get a recurrence of my cancer, I will die anyway, but if I get some other disease? That would be really bad luck and very possibly something that I could not afford to have treated if it were prolonged. I'm a realist after my previous cancer experience. I must ask, though, if you or one of your children got something for which you could not afford the treatment? Would you sell everything you have and then be like the poor you think have so much opportunity, or would you then just cash it in? What if it was a catastrophic illness that required millions of dollars for lifetime care and it was a hit and run driver or you had a heart at the wheel and nobody but you were responsible? Would you be so proud you wouldn't try to get government help? I'm just curious and I'd like to understand as I truly don't.
We are not going to agree and I think we both know that, so it will be up to the majority to decide who is the next president.
There are two distinct cultures in this country. One believes children should be punished when they make mistakes and good behavior should be expected, period. The other believes that children should be encouraged and rewarded for good behavior and shown how to limit their failures and mistakes without the need for punishment. I grew up with the former and I raised my children with the latter. My children have excelled at just about everything in life and they are great, loving, successful liberals. Ooops. I know it is because they were raised knowing that they had our backup. We would all help each other, no matter what, which I hear you saying about your family. But what if that isn't enough?
I was self-reliant and independent and I have suffered in my life, quite unnecessarily I might add, had my family of origin provided the same for me. I'm not bitter as they were hard people and that was what they thought was right. I do recognize that the punishment system creates hard people in many cases, which is a tragedy for our society. My childhood, candidly, because of untreated mental illness was a misery to be survived and I have to really work hard to pull up happy memories. Perhaps this has made me a deeper person or perhaps it has warped me beyond explanation. I think compassion has to extend beyond my own family, however, which is how I live my life and give of my time and my money whatever I can.
I don't think you have to worry about Barack bankrupting us. Bush is already doing that, and as he's the only president we've ever had who has failed 'up' in life, it will be a blessing to get rid of him. Even though his failed policies and trillions of debt will continue to haunt us for generations. This mess has to be fixed, and it is going to hurt our economy and our pocketbooks for sometime to come. Otherwise, our descendants will carry this burden forward with them.
I believe that Barack Obama will be one of the great presidents as the man can bring people together, even if that doesn't include you. At least you and I are able to have a civil conversation about it, and hence, if we are talking there is hope one of us will see the light.
Anyway, I think some of us need to get out more, Bret. It's a big country and there is a lot of need and it has nothing to do with people not trying to have a better life. Is a child responsible if his father flakes or his mother abandons him? Oh well, there are so many 'what ifs' I could ask, but I've gone on way too long. The conservative approach hasn't worked for great numbers of people. I am hoping to see what a compassionate, liberal approach can accomplish over the next eight years.
I should mention that I know lots of conservative people where I live, and some of them are my friends as well. I just don't understand the mentality although it obviously works for them. And they are good people. They'd help me if my car broke down or they saw me bleeding on the side of the road. Heck, they'd help you in that situation too.
It depresses me to think that you really think this 'mines's mine and yours's yours' way. I wonder if you've ever had a really tough time in life, Bret, or your kids have. Only someone who has been extremely lucky in health and in life could think this way. Or you are young and haven't fallen into 'high risk' health premium cost yet?
Your comment that war is temporary - take a look at our history, we love war - and health care goes on and on. If we have good preventative health care - which we do not now - that will lower the overall cost for all of us and greatly improve the lives of those people.
Isolating from others won't be possible, Bret, when we get some weird plague because our people are down trodden and sickly to begin with, and I think that is the way things are going.
I lived in a developing country for three years and experienced with my own eyes the people and their small children whose hair was falling out, skin mottled from malnutrition and no joy in their lives. I'm afraid that made an enduring impression along with my volunteer work in the projects in East Los Angeles. It takes a hard man to think poverty is chosen, Bret. Kids are victims to their parents' choices.
I am the only one in a huge extended family who has ever had a life-threatening illness, and the only one who literally could not work for six months. Had I been a normal, paycheck-to-paycheck person without reserves, good credit, a loving husband and a wonderful family around me, I would have ended up on the street. I can never forget all those people I later met who had no such backup. To think they deserve less, because they are less fortunate financially and or have less drive than I do? That would be the height of arrogance.
Canada does not have the wealth America has, and its system is one example of how things can go. We are Americans and when we put our minds to it, we do things better than just about everybody. I sincerely hope you give universal health care some additional thought.
And after writing all this, I doubt if any argument I gave you, Bret, would convince you of anything. We are very different in our approaches to life and politics, but hopefully our country will move forward in spite of us.:)
In the meantime, Happy Mother's Day and may I wish you also, prolonged good health for you and your family.
"Poor health is the number one reason families go bankrupt and the main cause of generational poverty."
Actually, the empirical evidence from Health and Human Services shows that divorce is the main cause of all types of poverty in America.
"I must ask, though, if you or one of your children got something for which you could not afford the treatment? Would you sell everything you have and then be like the poor you think have so much opportunity, or would you then just cash it in?
If it were me, that would be an easy call. I would not allow my family to pay for anything.............I would ask them to let me die. If it were one of my children, I'd do all I could, short of bankrupt the family. If bankruptcy was the only way to get them treatment, and there was no promise of a cure, I'd extremely regretfully allow them to die.
What if it was a catastrophic illness that required millions of dollars for lifetime care and it was a hit and run driver or you had a heart at the wheel and nobody but you were responsible?
That would be tough to do, considering I no longer own a car.
Would you be so proud you wouldn't try to get government help? I'm just curious and I'd like to understand as I truly don't."
Nope, I wouldn't pursue any government help. If I, or my family, couldn't get the help we needed with the health care I've already set up for them, I'd have to let my loved one go. And I have a living will set up to take care of any eventuality that might happen to me, as well.
"I don't think you have to worry about Barack bankrupting us. Bush is already doing that, and as he's the only president we've ever had who has failed 'up' in life, it will be a blessing to get rid of him. Even though his failed policies and trillions of debt will continue to haunt us for generations."
Elizabeth, one thing that economists always discuss when talking about health care is the permanent nature of the commitment. The first President who takes this on, will take on a massive, long-term debt burden for us and for our children. That will never be undone, as we Americans eventually become accustomed to such care. So there will never be a "sunsetting" of the health care costs for the government.
Wars, however, are temporary.
Even if the Iraq war ends up costing $1 trillion for all 5 years, it will pale in comparison to just ONE year of paying for Socialized medicine in America. Do you understand this fact?
Right now, American't spend $5 trillion per year on health care. The Iraq war is nothing compared to this expenditure. I for one, do not want to see this country devolve into Socialized Medicine. It is usually of low quality, with long wait times to see a doctor.
And with Socialized Medicine, doctors no longer have a money incentive to become doctors. Just ask all the doctors from Canada who are moving down to the US now because their wages are so low at home. They can't make a living in their own country.
"I believe that Barack Obama will be one of the great presidents as the man can bring people together, even if that doesn't include you. At least you and I are able to have a civil conversation about it, and hence, if we are talking there is hope one of us will see the light."
Elizabeth, other than the grandiose promises that Obama has made, what actual things has he done that convince you that he'd make a great President?
"I sincerely hope you give universal health care some additional thought."
I already have, when I lived in Vancouver, BC, and had Socialized medicine. Its a horrible system, and I don't want any of that nonsense here. Its the worst possible thing for the masses, who all receive a much lower level of care than private health care................even factoring in private health care's greater cost.
Thanks for the kind wishes, Elizabeth.
Congratulations on a wonderfully written article, and equally insightful and articulate comments. You had said so much of what I try to say, but with much more eloquence than I could ever hope to attain.
As you've seen from comments, there will be those whose prior biases will keep them from seeing clearly. They will continue to misrepresent the facts so they can argue against their own strawmen. These folk are lost to the party, unless of course they do see that voting for McCain would be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
But most Democrats will come back together. As will most Independents who feel the current Administration put party ideology ahead of America.
Obama presents a chance for America to challenge the accepted political norms. But in the end, it will be us, the people, who must step up to the plate and hold our government accountable. We must get away from our comfort zones enough to act toward real change...and by change I mean actually work toward resolving real problems for the long term. No short term "make me feel good" panders, but real long term "make it right" solutions. Obama can set the tone, but the rest of us must make sure our elected representatives make it happen. There are some tough decisions ahead, and I hope we are ready to take them on.
David K., thank you so much. You are absolutely right that it is the American people who need to step up to the plate. We have been so distracted by bullying and fear-mongering that even the simplest progress socially has been eviscerated by this administration.
Truthfully, with Obama running, I feel like it is a new kind of spring in this country. There's a lot of work to be done to get the ground ready for planting, but once that has been accomplished? If we all do our part in the maintenance and care of those little seedlings of change what we sow will lift up our country. Once we stop as bully on the playground, an improved foreign policy will also change our impact on the world. Not only do our citizens deserve this, our brave military do as well. I have faith in the American people, as you do.
You're right, I won't be using Medicare, Medicaid, ADC, Welfare, or any other government agency. I am not a consumer of such services. I'm simply one of the financial providers who receive little from their hard-earned tax dollars. I have a great health care plan provided by my work. I negotiated it myself, as everyone should have to do.
You never answered my question. What has Obama actually done (not said) that qualifies him to be a good President?
As a matter of fact, I feel like you are playing devil's advocate to get my goat. Believe me, that bus has left, and Bush already got it. There's no point in continuing when we obviously have very basic philosophical differences and you are not really trying to cross the aisle for any kind of potential understanding. I wish you well financing everything yourself and standing up for your principles. I hope that works out well for you and your children.
Luckily for us both, it is still a free country and we can both vote for the person we believe is better qualified to lead us out of the mess we find ourselves in after the last eight years.
Good luck, Bret, and I am sure if you are really interested in what Barack has done over his professional life you can find a better source than my site. As a matter of fact, I would suggest Obama's official site. It covers quite a bit there you might find of interest. www.BarackObama.com
I'm completely serious here : what has Obama done (not said) to make you think he'd be a good President?
All of Obama's opponents love to point out what speeches he makes as if he cannot do anything else. What he has done is live his life - and how he has lived it as an adult - shows he has over 20 years of public service. As I don't think that is your calling, I understand why you don't trust him. You cannot believe that anyone would be that generous with his time or his life just because he is a believer that our country needs his guidance and leadership.
I am sick to death of the "Me, Me, Me" philosophy and I see what has happened to our culture, our schools, our old people, our kids and our society. It is now a class war which I find repugnant and beneath us as Americans.
So I ask you, Bret. What have you done that makes you a good citizen? Is taking care of your own enough? I'm completely serious here. I think we may have a cultural divide that is worth pursuing. There are many people that think charity begins and stays at home and that's it.
I happen to believe one needs to alleviate one's own suffering first... and then help others to overcome theirs. By your standards I would be a do-gooder and a fool. So be it, I'm happy and could die happy tomorrow. I believe in myself and I believe in Barack Obama as I think our desire to improve life for others is the same. He's just better at it.
"So I ask you, Bret. What have you done that makes you a good citizen? Is taking care of your own enough? I'm completely serious here. I think we may have a cultural divide that is worth pursuing. There are many people that think charity begins and stays at home and that's it. "
When I start running for President, I'll tell you all that I've done that is worthy of your vote. Until then, I'm just another voter, much like you.
I do believe that charity starts at home, but I don't think it ends there. To be a good citizen, you have to seek out opportunities to be more than just another warm body on this planet, soaking up oxygen. Some day, I'll tell you exactly how I do that. But for now, let's keep this about Obama or McCain, and not about me. Sound reasonable?
I hold my President, whomever he may be - to a much higher standard than I hold any regular person I know. And so should you.
In many ways, he has our existence in his hands - and I don't just give my vote to anyone who asks for it. He has to earn it.
And I'm curious how and why you've chosen to give up your vote to an unknown like Obama. He has a nice academic record, I think we both agree on that. However, his gradepoint average at Harvard is nice, but it doesn't mean that a smart guy can be a great President. I think Jimmy Carter (who I think is probably the smartest guy to ever hold the office of President) did an abominably horrible job in the Oval Office. Obama also seems to have compassion and a decent amount of skill at organizing people - his community activism in South Chicago speaks volumes about that. But his record as a State Senator and as a United States Senator is stunningly unimpressive.
THAT is why I keep asking you to tell me what Obama has actually done (not said) to earn your vote?
I'm still asking.
If you think you are not taking a chance with McCain or Hillary, good luck.
Again, what makes this country great is that you have the right to pick your president based on what you think and I can pick Obama based on what I believe, and the beauty is that neither of us has to convince the other. So please let it go, Bret. I'm not necessarily concerned about what Obama has done, but what he will do.
I picked my husband using the same intuition and thoughtfulness, and I hold him to a much higher standard than I would any president. In all humility, I have excellent judgment and I was just a kid then.
The President of the United States is the business equivalent of our nation's CEO. A US Senator is the equivalent of the VP of Purchasing. A governor of a state is like the Director of European/Chinese/India/or any other foreign operations - they essentially run their own "company within a company".
Are we in agreement on my comparison scenario?
So in this election, we have the equivalent of a Senior Purchasing manager and a Junior Purchasing manager going for the same position, as the CEO retires, right? If I were part of the nominating committee, I'd definitely want to interview both men and find out what their positions were on various subjects, so that I could be sure I was choosing the right guy for the position. Speaking ability would be important, but not the most important thing. Knowing what I know about business, I would want to know what actions each candidate has undertaken and completed while a VP of Purchasing within the company. For me, I'd think that 25 years of experience would look very favorable compared to 3 years of experience within the company.
Now, I'd want to know what this young upstart has to say, since he's obviously risen VERY quickly through the ranks to be in this prestigious position at such a young age. However, as we all know now, Obama's "corporate achievements" are really, really thin. McCain's "corporate achievements" are legendary.
In any corporation that I'm aware of, Obama would stand no chance of the CEO position. But he might make a good C.O.O. to be groomed for the top spot when the old guy decides to retire.
Sorry Elizabeth, just using a bit of logic and reason here to unravel our deadlock.
Does my methodology sound reasonable to you?
I know what I'm saying is tiresome. I've asked this question repeatedly on Gather, and I've gotten virtually the same response EVERY time. Don't feel bad if you can't point to any of Obama's achievements as a US Senator. Only one person out of dozens has been able to name even ONE single positive thing he did as a US Senator.
But he sure gives pretty speeches...............
Also, in just about every state in the country a lawyer does not have to get the licenses and other things the rest of us do to do business of any kind. Why? The courts and the general population understand that if one knows the law, this is the most important part of business. Barack has legally and legitimately earned enough money outside of his professional capacity as a state and US Senator to become a millionaire. Not bad for a bi-racial kid brought up by a single mother and his grandparents. His accomplishments at Harvard are well known, so no reason to harp on that.
As far as looking at government as if it is a business? That is where you and I really part company. Yes, it must pay its bills and be responsible, but the government, Bret, should be by the people and for the people. A CEO is merely trying to gain profits and power, and that is not what I want in a president. You might, and that's your prerogative. I want someone who is thoughtful, brilliant (which Obama is and no one disagrees on this), honorable, compassionate, fair, brave, etc.
I am not looking for a CEO and I am not looking for someone who owes anybody favors. I want my president to owe me, the private citizen, for my support, and this election is truly by the people. Obama's campaign is also financed by the people, not special interests. As I believe the special interests have taken over our government's three branches, I want someone fresh and clean.
If you don't think he's proven himself, don't vote for him. I wouldn't expect a junior senator to have much of a political resume, and that makes him even more appealing as a candidate. I think you are from Missouri, Bret, of the show-me style. The items Obama has been successful at in the Senate did not benefit me personally, and I still admire and will vote for him. As I said, if you want to know what he has done, you can certainly research it. I don't care, Bret. You've just gotten annoying with the same thing, and I know and you know that no matter what I answered - which is why I didn't bother - you would still think it wasn't enough. That's your right, as I've said. I'm voting for Obama and I think the majority of Americans will too. Sorry, but we are going to win this election and I predict he will be one of the most loved presidents in our history.
I've respectfully asked you three times now to elaborate on any good action (not word) done by Barack Obama since he became a Senator, and you've dodged answering now three times. A reasonable man can only surmise from those actions that you can't name any.
I have lots of faith in God, Elizabeth.............but not much in Man (especially in politicians). So my question "What has this guy done?" seems particularly appropriate in a time when we have so little faith in our leaders. Don't you think?
If you can't answer, just say "Bret, he hasn't done too much since he's been in Congress. However, I'm going to overlook that and vote for him on blind faith".
At least that would be honest, Elizabeth. And I would appreciate it too.
Peace be with you.
I'm a Democrat, and a Hillary Clinton supporter. I was just curious how you thought Obama was worthy of your vote, due to his record in Congress.
Republican tactics don't bother me because I can defend my vote. I was just curious how you'd defend yours.
So its all on faith, eh?
Although, on your question of faith? I do have more faith in Barack than I do in Hillary. And my own senators in Washington State didn't do that much in their first terms either. That isn't a test. That is somebody who is thoughtful, doesn't have any seniority, and is just one of 100 who have power.
A president can truly accomplish amazing change... look at what Bush has done... and I am hoping Obama (yes, hoping) will be able to unite our country again.
Even you and me, Bret.
" No, Bret, my vote is based on the belief that we need someone who can bring people together."
OK, so what has he done in his Senatorial career that makes you think he can do that?
I have gone to barackobama.com and seen what he is in favor of..................and quite frankly, I'm shocked to see such Socialism advertised like its a good thing. When you go there, do you ask yourself how this guy will pay for all these programs he says he's for?
Have you asked yourself how will a 39-53% marginal tax rate will be received in a shaky economy like ours is right now?
What foreign policy experience does this guy have?
He speaks negatively about Iraq, but has he even traveled there one time?
Other than during his Senate testimony, has Obama even talked to General Petraeus one time?
These things all worry me greatly, Elizabeth.
They should worry you too.
As I said, I don't need to defend Obama. He's a great man poised to become even greater. You'll thank me one day for my vote, of if you don't, your children and grandchildren will. Thanks for the comment.
I think you're standing in line to vote enthusiastically for a latter-day Jimmy Carter.
I don't think I'll be thanking you. I think I'll be asking the question "who voted for this greenhorn?" if he does overcome all the statistics piled up against him.
But I don't think it will get to that.
Obama lost Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Indiana, and he will lose Kentucky next week (Obama has a 20+ point deficit there).
No Democratic candidate has ever lost TWO of those states in the primaries and won the White House.
Obama lost WVa by 41! Ouch!