What is Borderline Personality Disorder?

Hey Rene...a great read! I've read this. I have bipolar disorder with attention deficit disorder, but it took a while to figure that out. The symptoms are very similar. Just wanted to add my two cents in there! Great article!
~FC

Yes F. C., the symptoms are similar. There is a huge amount of material, research, and studies on both Bi-Polar Disorder and BPDs. We have a lot of members here in our Group who are very knowledgeable about both areas of study, therapy, and mental health.

How did you like Mason and Kreger's book?

The BPD Behavior Patterns discussed in the book are very helpful to those who have family members with Borderline Personality Disorder. As well as for those who themselves have Borderline Personality Disorder, but have never fully understood their own behavior patterns. It is only when their behavior is pointed out to them, that an awareness begins to take place. Denial may be and most times is -- the first response. But if they read the book suggested, chances are they will SEE themselves in the real-life stories that are relayed, as well as in the Behavior Patterns discussed.

I am interested in hearing your thoughts since you have read the book F.C. This may be a book that WE, as a Group, can have a Book Study on if there are enough members here interested in this area of mental health.

I know someone that really needs this book. She is dealing with a husband with BPD.
Thanks!!!!

I can definitely relate ... I've been diagnosed with BPD ...

Hi V. Webb ~ Ask your friend to please pick up the book and join us in Artistic Therapy Gather Group. If we have enough members interested, WE will begin a Book Study on "Stop Walking on Eggshells" by Paul T. Mason and Randi Kreger. It is an excellent READ. Those who do not have BPD will enjoy this book!

BPD can be overcome. With understanding, therapy, prayer, and discussion Borderline Personality Disorders can be dealt with in a very effective way. The first step is recognizing the Behavior Patterns.

Laughter is always good for the soul. Everyone should always remember that.

Thank you for your input.

Blessings ~
Rene

Katie ~ Your input would be very much appreciated in Artistic Therapy.

http://artistictherapy.gather.com

Do you have this book?

This sounds like a very informative read. If it would help just one person to deal with their problem it would be worth while. Thanks for this great review.

My mother was boarderline. Not a fun disorder to deal with. Sadly, prognosis is low as they tend to have an external locus of control and thus take very little responsibility for themselves.

What's your cut for hocking this, Rene?

I have a child with Bipolar Disorder, and I have to agree there are many similiarites. A good friend of mine has a daughter with borderline personality disorder and it has been very difficult life for both of them. I am sure that many people could benefit from the book, and possibly bring some balance in their lives. Great review.

nice to learn. i myself find answering affirmative to question 1

The book was laid out well. Unlike some books which TELL you what to do, this book points you in the right direction.
You were very correct in saying that people affected with BPD "see themselves" or acquire a new "self-awareness" once reading the book. That's what I fancied about the book.
Also, I think everyone can answer yes to at least one of the questions proposed as symptoms of BPD, but the book clears up any misgivings "normal" people may be having doubting themselves. In other words, you may answer yes to two of the questions, but as the psychiatrists' DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) requires, yes to several of these questions over a lengthy period of time is required to fit the model of a BPD individual.
Mason and Kreger's book does not try to diagnose. That is one thing that I love about a good mental health book. If it meets that criteria, then it usually gets an A+ from me.

I pulled the book off of the shelf because I remember some of the good advice I highlighted that Mason and Kreger had to offer.... Here's a sample:

Mason and Kreger give you a good understanding of the problem, what to expect, and how to survive when you are with someone with borderline traits.

In the book Stop Walking on Eggshells (pp.111-138) there is some very good advice about how to defuse an emotional explosion. This is not to say that everyone who explodes emotionally in front of you has BPD. Sometimes people explode out of utter frustration. It is best not to simplify other people's problems to a category. The label of "borderline" does not explain anything about the person exploding in front of you.

Here is a list of don'ts (p.135)…
1. Don't Defend: Trying to prove to an emotionally exploding person that you haven't done anything wrong can leave you feeling foolish, childish and guilty, even if you haven't made a mistake.
2. Don't Deny: You may use denial because you really haven't done anything wrong, or you certainly are not responsible for whatever it is you are accused of. But repeated denials can also make you feel like a child ("Did not!" Did too", etc).
3. Don't Counterattack: You might strike back at an emotionally exploding person to try to win an argument or vent your feelings, but when you do this you are probably falling for the trap to label you as the bad guy. You win the game in this situation by not playing.
4. Don't Withdraw: When you've defended, denied, and counterattacked and they haven't worked, it is common practice to withdraw either by clamming up, leaving physically, or tuning out. Of course if you are in physical danger, then you must leave. But the danger is in you remaining passive and silent while your sense of personal power and self-esteem deteriorates.

~FC

I used to work with women who had BPD ... it was exhausting.. totally draining

sounds like an interesting book

Hi Wanda ~ I certainly believe that "Stop Walking on Eggshells " would help everyone who reads it. Not only will it help those who have to deal with others who have BPD, but it would also help BPD patients as well.

I strongly recommend this book! Thanks for commenting. I hope you pick up a copy of this book. WE will do a Book Study in this Group on it. I can see that the interest is very strong in this area.

Blessings ~
Rene

A.C. ~ Working with many people who have Borderline Personality Disorders (BPDs), I believe that there is help available, and that this condition can be overcome. In most cases it is FIRST and FOREMOST the recognition that there is a PROBLEM. People with BPD tend to alienate those around them. Their irrational actions are not something that people readily run to deal with or be around. They are most times labled as "crazy", "paranoid", "schizophrenic", "immature", "childish", "controlling", "obsessive" . . . etc. All of these labels do nothing to help the person with BPD.

Anger, denial, and railing accusations usually follow a conversation wherein BPD is pointed out to the patient with such a disorder.

i.e., "I think you have Borderline Personality Disorder." ~

"I DON'T have Borderline Personality Disorder or whatever you call it! YOU have Borderline Personality Disorder!"

In some cases, they could be right. Anyone dealing with a person with BPD has the propensity to pick up the same characterists in defense of themselves.

Giving a person with BPD this book would be a wonderful start to opening up a meaningful conversation concerning Borderline Personality Disorders.

I'd like to hear more from you A.C. since you have a direct association with someone with BPD. Mothers with BPD, I might add, have another element going on in relation to their children (and adult children). They take on the overbearing parental stance, and the "victim" mentality all at once, and quite forcefully. Mothers with BPD tend to try to take over their children's friendships and relationships and bad-mouth them to their friends and associates. They do not have a "loving", "Motherly" attitude toward their children at all. Do give us your thoughts. WE do understand that dealing with someone with BPD is not an easy task. It is a very challenging road.

Do let us hear more from you A.C.

Blessings ~
Rene

Sue ~ Thank you for your input. Your comments . . .

"I have a child with Bipolar Disorder, and I have to agree there are many similiarites. A good friend of mine has a daughter with borderline personality disorder and it has been very difficult life for both of them. I am sure that many people could benefit from the book, and possibly bring some balance in their lives. Great review." ~ Sue

Sue ~ F.C. also mentioned the similarities in the conditions of BPD, Bi-Polar diagnoses, as well as ADD at the beginning of this thread. All of these conditions, I have come to find, are aided {positively} with Artistic Therapy (Art Therapy), "Artistic Therapeutics" ~ which utilizes various art forms ~ i.e., painting, drawing, writing, poetics, music, journaling, scrapbooking, diaries, crafts, photography, videography, filmworks, etc. I have seen very positive results once artistic forms are introduced -- both individually, and in Group and Family settings.

If you don't mind Sue, can you give us the approximate ages of both your child and your friend's daughter (youth, teens, young adults)? The earlier Borderline Personality Disorders (BPDs), as well as those who are Bi-Polar, are diagnosed, and the condition is recognized, the better for the patient, family and friends.

The difficulties in the relationships can be overcome with expert counseling and therapy. Talk Therapy is helpful.

You'd be amazed at how helpful Artistic Therapy (and/or Art Therapy) can be in these cases. Introducing a very soothing musical element into the home helps. Also, aromatherapy soothes the senses. Small water fountains (table-sized) in the home are helpful. The "sense" elements should never be overlooked.

And, yes Sue, a balance can be reached in their lives.

I am looking forward to hearing more from you, as I am sure others here are as well.

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi Poddar ~ Discernment is needed in the case of #1. However, sometimes being quiet and just listening in stillness without being pulled into the "dramatics" is helpful. Reasoning with a person with Borderline Personality Disorder is not always possible. Accusations and "blaming" are the order of the day for people who have Borderline Personality Disorders. They are quick to jump into the "victim mode" as well. You cannot be sucked in by any of that. . . .

Taking this to another level, . . . A joyful and peaceful balance within "self", as well as being spiritually grounded, is the place from which all things are possible.

Once you have come to a place where people can be bouncing off the walls, and it will not move you, you are well on the way to seeing the recovery of saneness to others.

Everyone and everything revolves around the nucleus of proper balance. Coming in line with that brings everything and everyone in your realm in line with the same balance. The KEY is of course to master that balance first for "self".

Hoping to "hear" much more from you Poddar.

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi F.C. ~ I'm glad you chimed in here.

You've mentioned, "the psychiatrists' DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) requires, yes to several of these questions over a lengthy period of time is required to fit the model of a BPD individual." ~ F.C.

The same holds true for any diagnosis given for any mental health model.

The patient always has the option of taking on the "diagnosis" or throwing it off. A diagnosis is a way to help an individual better understand theirself, and their behavior patterns. The diagnosis does not have to be held on to, nursed, and magnified. Each person can choose to live differently. Be different, and choose a different way of life. The power inherent within "self" to change has to come directly from the individual involved.

You've made an interesting statement, F.C. ~ "I think everyone can answer yes to at least one of the questions proposed as symptoms of BPD, but the book clears up any misgivings "normal" people may be having doubting themselves. " ~ F.C.

I believe that everyone can answer yes to one or more of the questions in relation to anyone in their life, including for theirself. . . .

For instance ask yourself for YOUR "SELF":

#1 - How many times have I listened to another person's thoughts or feelings and my reaction caused a fight or hurt feelings to follow?

#2 - How many times have I twisted someone else's words? Or, blamed or critized someone else for what is perceived by me as wrong in the relationship, even when it makes no logical sense to the other person?

#3 - Have I made someone else the FOCUS of intense, violent, and irrational rages ~ alternating with periods when I act perfectly normal and loving? Do other people not believe the other person when they explain what is going on?

4) Do I manipulate, control, or even lie to others sometimes? Do you use emotional blackmail on others?

5) Do you see others as either all good or all bad, with nothing in between? Is there sometimes no rational reason for the switch?

6) Do you tell others that they are too demanding or that there is something wrong with them? Do you tell others that their needs are not important?

7) Do you denigrate or deny other people's point of view? Do constantly change your expectations of others, so that they feel they can never do anything right?

8) Do you accuse others of doing things they never did and saying things they never said? Do you make others feel misunderstood a great deal of the time, and when they try to explain, do you find that you do not believe the other person?

9) Are you constantly putting others down? When the other person tries to leave the relationship, do you prevent the other person from leaving in a variety of ways (anything from declarations of LOVE and PROMISES to change to implicit or explicit threats)?

10) Are you moody, impulsive, or unpredictable? So much so that others cannot make any plans involving you? Do others make excuses for your behavior or try to convince others that everything is okay with you?

Hmmmm.

F. C. ~ Think about this question ~ What is a 'normal' person -- mentally speaking?

We'll take the rest of your comments to another thread for further discussion. Others who have the book, or those who purchase the book will be able to follow along with us on this . . .

In the book Stop Walking on Eggshells (pp.111-138) - [This Chapter is entitled, "Understanding Your Situation: Setting Boundaries, and Developing Skills"]

". . .there is some very good advice about how to defuse an emotional explosion. This is not to say that everyone who explodes emotionally in front of you has BPD. Sometimes people explode out of utter frustration. It is best not to simplify other people's problems to a category. The label of "borderline" does not explain anything about the person exploding in front of you." ~ F.C.

Here is a list of dont's (p.135)… [On this page of the book, we are dealing with "Responding to Attacks and Manipulation"] . . .

{These brackets represent F.C.'s words}

1. Don't Defend: Trying to prove to others {an emotionally exploding person} that you really haven't done anything wrong can make you feel {leave you feeling} foolish, childish and guilty, even if you haven't made a mistake.

2. Don't Deny: You may use denial because you truly {really} haven't {done anything wrong, or you certainly are not responsible} been responsible for whatever it is that you are being accused of. But repeated denial can also make you feel like a child again("Did not!" "Did too!"). {etc}.

3. Don't Counterattack: You may {might} strike back at the person with BPD {an emotionally exploding person} to try to win the {an} argument or vent your feelings. But when you do this, you have fallen into the projection and projective identification trap that the BP has unconsciously set for you. As the doomsday computer in the film War Games discovered, the only way to win this game is not to play.

{you are probably falling for the trap to label you as the bad guy. You win the game in this situation by not playing.} ~ F.C.

4. Don't Withdraw: When non-BP's realize that Defend, Deny, and Counterattack don't work, they often Withdraw. Some non BPs clam up completely. Some leave physically. Some learn to dissociate. There is nothing wrong with leaving if you feel attacked. In fact, there are times when it is a good thing to do. The damage comes from remaining passive and silent, absorbing the other person's criticism while your sense of personal power and self-esteem deteriorate.

{When you've defended, denied, and counterattacked and they haven't worked, it is common practice to withdraw either by clamming up, leaving physically, or tuning out. Of course if you are in physical danger, then you must leave. But the danger is in you remaining passive and silent while your sense of personal power and self-esteem deteriorates.} ~ F.C.

FC ~ I'm glad you brought out these portions of the book. Seeing it from your eyes is also good for the readers of this Article.

Thank you. We will make this into a Book Study here in Artistic Therapy.

Blessings ~
Rene

It's fascinating and explains many things, thank you so much Rene you did an excellent job in introducing BPD.

Thank you for the great read!!! I was told I had a personality disorder which I bordered on Bipolar and PTSD (Post traumatic stress disorder. Not that I am necessarily cured so to speak but a change in medications and I no longer need those little green pills. Do not get me wrong I am moody as most females are but the tension, stress and fights are not there anymore...lol

"crazy", "paranoid", "schizophrenic", "immature", "childish", "controlling", "obsessive" .

Borderlines are described this way because it's a fairly accurate description of their behavior. Though not 'helpful' to the individual with BPD, it is not the responsibility of those who deal with the Borderline to 'help' them. It is the responsibility of the Borderline to seek help if they wish to address the behavior which is causing problems in their life.

Regarding having a mother who was Borderline, she was quite irrational, controling and manipulative, except when she wasn't. She was ultimately cured, though, when she died 8 years ago.

Hi Rene,
You asked "What is a 'normal' person -- mentally speaking?"
I would be the last person on Earth who would be able to answer that question! LOL! Seriously, I could try with all my might, and the closest answer I can come up with is this...
To me a 'normal person' would be that person who is free from mental disorder(s). And then, that definition doesn't quite sit right with me because a person with mental disorder(s) could be normal with the help of medication(s).

I have bi polar disorder with severe anxiety, so this article said something to me. I think that the book would be something that I would like to read. I have heard of this book. Thanks for reminding me about this.

You're welcome Haim. It is a fascinating book that will hold your attention. Everyone can relate to this book.
____________________________

Jennifer M. ~ Tell us if you used Therapy, and if so, what kind? I'm glad to hear that the change in medications seems to have helped you. Were you taking more than one medication?

The cases of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder have soared (PTSD). The Iraq War has brought this surge about.

Looking forward to hearing more from you Jennifer.

A.C. ~ First, I am sorry to hear about your mother passing.

Had your mother's behavior improved before she passed away?

I do agree with you that it is up to the person who has BPD to seek help, and to want help. Many times, however, this does not occur. Help is usually precipitated by the urging of friends and family. Many times the Church and Clergy will step in to help.

It is always good for not only the person with BPD, but also those associated with the BPD person to have an outlet for creativity. Some form of stress release. The tension that can build up in relationships and households with individuals that have BPD can sometimes be extreme. Activities that are enjoyable are always helpful. Alternative methods can work wonders. Meditation. Prayer. Church Activities. Community Service. Care for the Elderly. Artistic Therapy. Music Therapy. Literary Therapy. Activities that involve the mind, body, and spirit of your BEING are wholesome and progressive to life improvement and positive life changes.

I am a firm believer in Journaling and/or keeping a Diary. They are amazing tools for introspective self assessment.

Everyone knows what is best for their well-being. Continuous drama or abuse in a household are never healthy. These situations may serve as a springboard from which to rise above and help others. But long-term struggles in circular patterns do not serve anyone's well-being.

Thank you so much for responding A.C. How are you doing? And how are you feeling now about your mother? Do you remember any of the good things about her? Were there times when you can remember her not showing any symptoms of having a Borderline Personality Disorder? Your answers may help others who are following along with us.

Hi F.C. ~ Thank you for answering the question, "What is a 'normal' person -- mentally speaking?".

I like your response . . .

" . . . the closest answer I can come up with is this...

To me a 'normal person' would be that person who is free from mental disorder(s). And then, that definition doesn't quite sit right with me because a person with mental disorder(s) could be normal with the help of medication(s)." ~ F. C.

I'd like to pose this question to others following along with us as well . . .

"What is a NORMAL person ~ Mentally Speaking?"

Adding this as well ~

"Is NORMAL always consistent or does NORMAL fluctuate?"

Hi Cortney ~ Thank you for responding. Do get the book. I believe that you will find it quite helpful. You will see many similarities in BPD Borderline Personality Disorder and Bi-Polar symptoms. We will be doing a book study here in Artistic Therapy Gather Group on "Stop Walking on Eggshells".

It is not uncommon to have severe anxiety and BPD as well. I hope that your anxiety level is not as high as it may have been before. Hopefully, you have been seeing gradual improvement in this area. Many times xanax is prescribed for patients with high anxiety levels. Although there are also other medications that are prescribed to lower the anxiety the patients are experiencing.

We'd like for you to join in with us Cortney.

I am Bi-Polar. Went undiagnosed for decades.
MY life was pretty dicey for a long time.
But for the Love of an amazing and patient woman
as well as 1 good Doctor (many were horribly incompetent),
I may not be here today.

Thank you so much for responding A.C. How are you doing? And how are you feeling now about your mother? Do you remember any of the good things about her? Were there times when you can remember her not showing any symptoms of having a Borderline Personality Disorder? Your answers may help others who are following along with us.

Renee, I came to terms with my relationship with my mother long ago and am fine with it. Thank you for asking. As far as her not exhibiting signs of boarderline, that never happened. Her behavior was irrational and manipulative up until the very end.

Let me tell you a little story that highlights what having a mother with boarderline personality is like. My mother had a tendency to HATE whoever I happened to be involved with. Because my love for anyone else threatened one of the few tenuous emotional connections she was able to create in her life, she acted like a petulant child. This started when I was a teenager and never stopped.

My mother was diagnosed with cancer in 1999 and had a very rapid decline. From diagnosis to death was six months (to the day). During the period, I was obviously quite upset and attempting to do all that I could for her. But, she had a tendency to treat my wife at the time like SHIT. She was insulting, distant and completely childish in her attitudes towards her. This, obviously, put me in a very difficult situation. Ultimately, I had to decide that my responsibilities were to the family I had formed with my wife, not the drama I had been raised in. I continued to visit my mother up to her death but I did so much less frequently and I did not bring my wife (which my mother was perfectly fine with) but I also did not bring my daughters (whom my mother adored). Her selfish desires to monopolize the affections of those she cared about ultimately resulted in her losing contact to those she cared for the most.

My mother had wonderful things about her. She was great at holidays and big events. But, if I'm honest, I have to admit that my mother was great at anything that brought her attention and approval. She desperately WANTED to be there for people, to be loved and respected, but her emotional ability never developed beyond that of a 12 yr old. She constatnly pushed everyone away. I know the roots of BPD and WHY she was that way, but it doesn't change the fact that she was completely unreasonable. Because of this, she died very much as she lived: alone and afraid, even though there was a husband and three sons around her willing to give her comfort. She just didn't know how to accept it.

BPD, like all personality disorders, has a VERY LOW prognosis for recovery. It's not something you HAVE, it's something you ARE. The very structure of the personality is selfish, unstable and insecure. Borderlines sit in therapy for YEARS (my mother for at least a decade) and show little improvement. It's known among therapists that Borderlines will put your kids through college and buy you a new car, but don't ever expect them to internalize change except in very small increments. Additionally, any advances made in therapy disappear quickly once therapy has ended. Once out of the direct influence of the clinical environment, the perspective they've gain evaporates and they return to previous behavior patterns. The 'Borderline' in BPD comes from the older diagnosis of 'Borderline psychotic'. Their behavior is incredibly destructive to themselves and those around them. I've found the best way to deal with borderlines is to avoid them in interpersonal relationships at all costs and set hard and fast boundaries when you HAVE to deal with them (see my mothers death above).

Valuable information Rene, thank you.

Neil ~ We would be so happy for you to share your story with us.

Have you read the book, "Stop Walking on Eggshells"? If so, what did you think of it?

Also Neil ~ How many Doctors had you gone through before you were diagnosed as being Bi-Polar? I'm curious as to your response.

Blessings ~
Rene

A. C. ~ Thank you so much for responding. You have provided very helpful information that will help other readers and members of this Gather Group. It is especially good to know that you have long since come to terms with your relationship with your Mother, and that you are fine with it.

I believe that there is always HOPE for BPD ~ Borderline Personality Disorder and all other personality disorders. I also believe that there is always a "root cause".

As we go through the study of the book A.C., this will open up different levels of discussion, and I am hopeful that you will join in. Your input is very valuable.

One thing that you've mentioned is this ~ "I've found the best way to deal with borderlines is to avoid them in interpersonal relationships at all costs and set hard and fast boundaries when you HAVE to deal with them" ~ A.C.

The behavior that is most destructive to both themselves (The Borderline Personality) and those around them A.C. is usually exhibited to those closest to the Borderline Personality. Those who have limited contact with someone who has BPD will not necessarily SEE any of the behavior patterns that co-workers, family members and close friends witness. This is where the "non-belief" comes in when the Borderline Personality is described to an outsider.

The Borderline Personality has built a DRAMA SCENE and has allocated the players for each part. The Borderline Personality will not act a certain way around certain people. The Borderline is very much aware of who will and who will not play into the DRAMA SCENARIOS. The DRAMA stops when the players "change" ~ i.e., they do not continue to get sucked into the theatrical works of the Borderline Personality.

There is always a "blaming" factor going on with the Borderline Personality. They re-live things over and over in their minds. There is always something to be ANGRY about. People are always out to get them even when that is "unsaid" ~ it is acted out.

I have seen the Borderline Personality completely transform when they do not get their usual response. Usually they will abate their immature and destructive behavior and save it for a more opportune time.

Spiritually, this topic of discussion can be taken to another level.

I have seen this many times over A.C. And, your direct experience with BPD has brought you to the conclusions that you have come to. All outcomes are not the same.

Working from the framework of "Stop Walking on Eggshells" is a good place to start to open up the pathway of discussion here in Artistic Therapy.

As more members and newcomers join in our discussion, further insight and first-hand experiences can be shared.

One other area that I believe to be strongly connected to the triggering of Borderline Personality Disorder is MENOPAUSE. This is rarely discussed when it comes to women, but strongly a factor.

I am looking forward to the continuation of this discussion with everyone who is with us and joining us.

Blessings ~
Rene

ROBIN ~ Please do get the book and JOIN US in this discussion. We look forward to your participation.


Margo ~ I am so glad to hear that you have read "Stop Walking on Eggshells". This is going to be a very interesting discussion, and your input is very much appreciated and welcome. Do join us in our Book Study!

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi Rene,
I have been thinking about whether NORMAL is always consistent or if NORMAL fluctuates, and I've got to say it fluctuates. I'm bipolar, and although I am on medication to prevent mood swings, they still come and go, so in my case, normal fluctuates. So that's me. I'm pretty sure this applies to others, even those people who are free from mental illness.
~FC

My mother had Borderline Personality disorder and was Bi Polar, often a condition which results when those with these problems learn to self-medicate with drugs or alcohol. Psychotic episodes are also a by-product of the disease for some people, so there isn't always an effective method of living/working with everyone with these problems.

My solution was to remove myself as soon as I was legally able to do so, and that provided an enormous amount of personal peace for both of us. One sister lived peacefully with her for decades, although she also seems to have this disorder, so perhaps they were more compatible.

We all have something, right?

I thought I had responded but can't find it anywhere. Sorry if duplicate turns up.
Thanks for the article. I ordered the book; also one called "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me: Understanding the Borderline Personality" Jerold J. Kreisman
I think it is good to be aware of all the disorders you may run into ... just to be able to counsel inteligently. Also, I think I may have a son-in-law who suffers with bpd. We've loved him and worked with him and he has made wonderful strides, but how wonderful it would be if this really is his problem, to pick up a book and recognize himself.
Thanks very much for all this info.

F.C. ~ I agree with you that "NORMAL" fluctuates. Not only from person to person, but also family to family, culture to culture, religion to religion, state to state, nation to nation.

What is NORMAL for one family may not be NORMAL behavior to another family, and so on.

Who is to say that what is considered "mental illness" in one case isn't considered "normal" in another considering the setting and environment?

I know that everyone can say that they have been in places or around people that they thought were "crazy" or "just bizzare". Who says that is TRUTH? Maybe they are just "DIFFERENT".

Just something to think about.

Blessings ~
Rene
P.S. I really love your input F.C.!

Elizabeth ~ I am so glad that you've added to this Discussion.

One thing that I mentioned earlier in this Discussion is "MENOPAUSE". I also would like to add "STRESS" as another factor in connection with Borderline Personality Disorder. NOTICE though that you will encounter more examples of "women" with BPD.

I can go into many other areas that add to the diagnosis ~ such as, ABUSE, RAPE, MOLESTATION, having children too early, getting married too early. . . .

Everyone is not geared to handle STRESS in a way that maintains a balanced MIND. Mental Illness results from "breaking points".

What one person can not handle, another person can handle with ease. We have seen cases where people are fired from their 30-year jobs and become suicidal or worse still -- kill theirself. That same life circumstance will propel another person to go forward in life {seeing the firing as a challange to grow}, and become an Entrepreneur.

"Disease" ~ As we all know is DIS-EASE. DIS EASE with life's challenges, situations and circumstances. The inability to find "comfort" in a suitable way to the MIND, BODY and SOUL. The inability to readjust -- change seasons -- move forward -- FORGIVE.

Elizabeth ~ You've mentioned that "One sister lived peacefully with her for decades, although she also seems to have this disorder, so perhaps they were more compatible."

It is possible that the Sister that lived with your Mother for decades picked up her behavior patterns. We all find that we do things like our Mothers or Fathers or older Sisters and Brothers.

Some things are not genetic. Some things are merely behavior habits that rub off. GOOD or BAD.

Most people involved with someone with BPD tend to remove themselves or distance themselves. They figure, "Who needs this!?" Too much unnecessary tension and stress that need not be. So I completely understand your response through the action of removal as soon as possible.

Thank you so much for your input Elizabeth.

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi Glome ~ Bringing your comments down here . . .

"I thought I had responded but can't find it anywhere. Sorry if duplicate turns up." ~ Glome

You probably did post, and had a "disappearing act" happen like I did. ~ lol

"Thanks for the article. I ordered the book; also one called "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me: Understanding the Borderline Personality" Jerold J. Kreisman"

Good Glome ~ I'm glad you have ordered the book. Our Book Study will be very interesting. The other book you've mentioned, "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me . . ." is one on my list as well. The title alone makes me laugh {seriously} -- as it is the pattern of this disorder.

"I think it is good to be aware of all the disorders you may run into ... just to be able to counsel intelligently." ~ Glome

I agree. If you are a Psychologist or a Psychiatrist or Mental Health Care Professional, I would think that one would be aware of all of the disorders.

On a personal level -- PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with the disorders gives one the perfect place from which to provide input and insight for this Discussion. As you can see from the many members who have added to this discussion. Reading further into BPD, many will find glimpses of themselves, as well as others.


"Also, I think I may have a son-in-law who suffers with bpd. We've loved him and worked with him and he has made wonderful strides, but how wonderful it would be if this really is his problem, to pick up a book and recognize himself." ~ Glome

It would be good if you could give us some examples of your son-in-laws behavior. That way, we can add input.

"Thanks very much for all this info." ~ Glome

You are welcome Glome, and do continue to jump right in to this Discussion!

Great information!

Thank you Monica. Hoping you too will add to this Discussion/Book Study.

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi Rene,
I've been reading everyone's comments here, and it just breaks my heart in two to see people disassociating from their loved ones, relatives, etc. that have bpd. I truly understand that it is quite frustrating to be around, "put up with," live with, and care for those who are afflicted with mental disorders, but I don't know where I would be if it weren't for the love of my husband and mother helping me out through my life of bipolar disorder. And I realize bipolar disorder is not the same as borderline personality disorder, but I have put them through hell, and they have stuck by me through the bad times (and the bad times have included events such as suicide attempts, threatening their lives, waving guns around, frivolous amounts of money spending, etc). I could go on and on here.
It really hurts to think about this. I feel such sorrow for the sick. I read an example of a definition of empathy in a dictionary and it stuck with me and reminds me of this case....
By means of empathy, a great painting becomes a mirror of the self.
~FC

Rene,

I find this article to be both informative and interesting;
The comments, also. Frog Catcher, I send you my understanding.

Thank you Barbary...I appreciate it.
~FC

I just came in in response to your email notification and to tell you I received my book. I didn't see your respons and request for expample of Son in Law.
How to put it in a nutshell??:) Since I posted last...I'm thinking maybe it is a learned reaction to a Father that was full blown BPD. A Dad who is now on his deathbed in the hospital and doing and saying everything he can to tell my SonILaw what a miserable failure he is and what a worthless disappointment he is. He had told his daughter he would use his deathbed to get revenge on those that had ?? (not let him control them. my words.) And of course he pushed until Son I L exploded, yelling every bad thing that spewed up from years of anger.
I don't think S is controling himself; but insecure. Nevertheless when he would explode every week or two with new wife (my Daug.) (He had gone thru 5 wives) he accuses and accuses of stupid things; screaming in her face; not letting her defend herself or he twists every word she says into horrible things to accuse her of. I went to get her one day to remove her from the premises. He tried to put on his front but when she agreed to come he couldn't control it. I talked nice to him; letting him know we loved him but was worried at this time for her safety. I stayed steady & in control but he did said every thing he could to wilt us and get control. THERE I SAID IT :) Get control.
I see. He IS trying to get complete control when he is on the yelling binge. But NOT in his regular everyday life. By the next day he is sick and apologetic and trying to make up. But the explosion can last for days.
He had an experience a little over a year ago of accepting Christ. Since then he has faced himself and made definite changes. Maybe only two explosions though sometimes they are close and he forcibly stops them.
He has a bigger tendency (not necessary) to go into them if drinking. He's given up drinking for the most part for that reason. I still know it's in there though. He is at a very approachable place. :)
If I reread I won't like what I said and start all over ... but I'll never get it right so I'm just sending. Thank you ALL so much for sharing. I know there are other people out there that are being helped that won't respond. Thank you for all of them.

PS I shouldn't use the word 'counsel' in referring to myself. I've always taught adult Bible Studies and so have naturally had ongoing discussion of family problems. I am not a regular counsellor.
One more thing. My daughter said she can always tell when an episode is going to begin. First signe; she will call his name & he will act like he doesn't hear. She will say it again and he will answer very nicely. But somethings strange. She knows a little game is about to begin. Sometime over the next 24 hrs things set in.

My friend desperately needs this book. Her adult son has borderline personality disorder and his needs dictate to the entire family. They DO walk on eggshells around him and cater to his every wish. He treats them like slaves. They support him financially and are enabling him to maintain an unreastic life. He has terrible rages. He did mouth off to the wrong person once, although he didn't admit it. His black eye told the story.

yeah I went thru this last year.. 'specially number five..

Great article. Yes, I know several people with those characteristics. I have been diagnosed as Bi-polar and was hospitalized on three continents, USA, Africa, SouthAmerica. Wrote a book Along Came A Spider,A personal look at Madness. The National Alliance for Mental Illness sponsored the book. Once I got on Lithium I have been able to lead a normal life, traveled in many countries, published ten books and many articles. Maryanne

Wow maryanne! A female poster boy :)

F.C. ~ Your comments are powerful and very well stated. Your words will help many families to help to be more empathetic and compassionate towards those in their family who have mental illness. In some cases, there are underlying medical conditions. Diabetes for example, is a condition that can trigger episodes of violence if proper care is not taken, and the condition is not recognized.

Thank you for adding your expertise and making us more aware in the area of Bi-Polar diagnosis, feelings, emotions, family and life issues associated with this condition F.C..

Blessings ~
Rene

Thank you Barbary ~Do join us for the Book Study that will be going on all month long in relation to this book, "Stop Walking on Eggshells" here in Artistic Therapy.

Blessings ~
Rene

I counsel teens and have worked with many with PBD.

Glome ~ I am so glad you explained your son-in-law's behavior pattern here. It helps others to identify BPD. In many cases, the underlying ANGER is so intense from past issues -- in your son-in-law's case, with his father -- that it spills over into every other dimension in life . . . i.e., work, home, driving on the road {road rage}. And, in effect, Borderline Personality Disorder is not at all helped by any introduction of drugs or alcohol. In fact, it intensifies the disorder.

Again, I'll say this -- it is a demonic spirit(s). The longer bitterness and rage set into a person's spirit, the stronger the hold becomes from the demonic realm. This is another area we will turn to in the month of JUNE. The Spiritual dynamics behind illnesses cannot be overlooked.

It is good to know that your son-in-law has turned to Christ. Drinking {Alcoholism} is another indicator of underlying issues that in effect causes destruction in many areas of life.

Let us take a look at what you have shared with us here Glome . . .

"My daughter said she can always tell when an episode is going to begin. First sign; she will call his name & he will act like he doesn't hear. She will say it again and he will answer very nicely. But somethings strange. She knows a little game is about to begin. Sometime over the next 24 hrs things set in."

It is the demonic spirit that it answering her -- not your son-in-law. I am aware of what you are speaking of.

We will go into this further from the Spiritual Dynamics on a separate thread. However, I will say this, your daughter should remain prayerful. Praying day and night. Leaving the Bible open to Psalms 68:1 ~ "Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him." (KJV)

Add anything further to this Discussion as you see fit Glome.

Blessings ~
Rene

Jan ~ Thank you so much for joining in on this Discussion. I recommend that everyone get this book. It is helpful in identifying BPD in others. There is a wealth of helpful information in the book. Our Book Study will begin tomorrow here in Artistic Therapy. Do tell your friend.

A major tool ~ Prayer. And not allowing the behavior to continue. How old is your friend's son? Personally, he'd have to hit the door. Pack his bags and hit the road. If that doesn't straighten him up, he may wake up and agree to getting some help. Let me know how old he is.

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi Doc ~ Ok, #5 . . .

5) Do you feel like the person you care about sees you as either all good or all bad, with nothing in between? Is there sometimes no rational reason for the switch?

I'd like to take the time to point this out here. Sometimes people with BPD magnetize to one another. They mirror each other, yet they are unable to see it in themselves. It is the other person that is "crazy". I am using the word, "crazy", because that is exactly how the other person's behavior appears to the one witnessing it.

There are many factors involved Doc, so I'd need to hear more details. Please chime in.

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi Cassandra ~ So very glad to hear your input. You are right on all points.

When your life is being threatened repeatedly. Definitely, the answer is to remove yourself from the environment. Now if it is your house, the other person needs to remove theirself from the environment or be removed. Plain and simple. Dealing with BPD from a distance is sometimes a very WISE DECISION. And, it is definitely a WISE DECISION when it involves threats upon your life.

There have been cases where, miraculously, when there is no one around for the person to flip out on, the BPD symptoms totally disappear. SERIOUSLY. Why? DRAMATICS. I cannot express enough how many people thrive on DRAMA. Creating sickness and illness for DRAMATIC effect. It is a method of CONTROL.

On the VERY SERIOUS SIDE, it is also sometimes a form of mental illness. However, everyone who exhibits the symptoms described do not necessarily have BPD. There are some individuals who are CONTROLLERS. And, they do so, because they have been doing so for so long. In whatever way that has worked for them in the past, they continue with the same tactics ~ and usually with the same people. Primarily, you'll find BPD is a family-related disorder. It has gone on, and continues to go on as long as the family is in place. There are times when the adult children should have long since been gone. This is one way to get them out. Or vice-versa. It sounds unclinical doesn't it? It is.

Whether we want to recognize it or not, sometimes, we tend to have a tendency to put labels on things to better understand life issues. There are times when we really will not and do not get along with certain people -- period. We can label them or the circumstances whatever we want. The bottom line . . . some people will never mix, never get along in an up-close-and personal environment together. There are some husbands and wives like this. If you are around people that get on your nerves for any length of time, you may have the tendency to act "crazy". True or not? If you love your space and someone invades it for a long period of time, you may just get a little angry -- to put it mildly. Think on that for a second.

Now while some people love their space, and yet love being around people at the same time, this will present a problem. There will be a duality going on. There will be an air of, "I love you so long as you don't get on my nerves." Contention breaks out. My answer to this . . . Never wear out your welcome. Have your own home. Know thyself.

In your case, Cassandra ~ You KNOW YOURSELF, are aware of your surroundings, and take heed to WISDOM'S VOICE. Amen.

Cassandra Your statement ~ "You can't have a creative outlet and live with this person. They will not let you have one. You would need to separate yourself, and find your own space. Maybe then you would have a better balance. I myself am tired of the roller coaster ride, so I chose to get off."

You did the same thing that Elizabeth did ~ as described above.

Wise choice. One should never let a person control their life in any way, shape or form when dealing with BPD. In fact, it is better to distance oneself. This sometimes solves the problem completely. In the case of parents and adult children, it is a matter of letting go, and letting grow. When this does not happen, disorder occurs. Sometimes in the form of BPD.

Cassandra ~ If your case is similar to A.C.'s it is easy to see how having a controlling mother, or a mother with BPD can interfere with living life joyously. And, as you say, maintaining a healthy balance. It is always best, especially having children, not to remain in an unhealthy environment. For sanity's sake.

In the case of . . .

"I have also worked with two bosses that had bi-polar disorder. One was so sweet, and the other one did a 360 daily. It was very frustration trying to balance BPD at home and Bi-polar at work. And yes, they seem very similiar. I thought, how terrible, there is just no escape. So I disconnected myself from both." ~ Cassandra

I can fully understand your disconnecting from both. It is very healthy to do so, and also very WISE. Dealing with BPD and Bi-Polar personalities can be very taxing and draining. Now, you can take the time to self-reflect and empower your spirit through prayer and peaceful surroundings. Building yourself up for the challenges of life.

And, the next time you encounter a person who has BPD and/or is Bi-Polar, you may be better able to sustain the contact. And you may also be able to offer Wise Advice.

BIG HUGS & BLESSINGS ~
Rene

Hi Maryanne I am so glad you've added to this Discussion.

After we have completed your DREAM WORKSHOP & INTERVIEW in Dream Depths on your book, "WHAT MOTHER TERESA TAUGHT ME" this month, we will have to do a Book Study here in Artistic Therapy on "Along Came A Spider" during the month of JUNE. I am so glad you have mentioned your book here, as it is very much related to this topic. I believe that your book will be helpful to a lot of people, as well as your input.

Thank you so much for commenting. We look forward to hearing more from you in this Discussion, as you have much you can add here on this topic of BPD and Bi-Polar patients.

Our BOOK STUDY on "Stop Walking on Eggshells" begins here tomorrow!

Blessings ~
Rene

I haven't had time to read this thread but scanned the article and have read "Eggshells." It is a PHENOMENAL book and I'm very interested (and would have family members potentially interested) in a Book Study of it.

I also highly recommend the book "Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship"
by Christine Ann Lawson

Stephen ~ WE thank you for the Book Suggestion. Many of us, if not all of us on this thread will definitely get the book, "Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship" by Christine Ann Lawson.

It is really good to see you. And it will be wonderful to have you join us for this Book Study. We know you can add much to the Discussions.

Blessings ~
Rene

This looks VERY good. I was in a relationship EXACTLY like this years ago. It was just terrible. There's also a book for women about men called "Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them" by Susan Forward, and it really helped me get out of that relationship and work on getting over it as well (every time I re-read the book, I got angry instead of depressed, which helped me greatly on my way to healing.). This book was about men who are classified as "misogynists", and they place the blame for EVERYTHING on their partner or significant other. It might prove a good companion book for women to "Stop Walking on Eggshells".

Rene'

I was under tremendous stress at the time and would suddenly be accused of cheating with someone 1500 miles away because I offered encouragement on a *webpage*..

next day I was "wonderful" again..

detail enough for you?

eggshells.. boy that is IT.

Great title, interesting subject, thanks for sharing. This is the kind of almost promotion that resulted in the reaction to my article on let gather friends share news of their accomplishments (like book publication) and interests even if it encourages sales of their products. My novel White Lies has been featured by several members who read my articles on the issues dealt with in the book (vaccine injury, medical and gov't deception about the compensation fund and the medical links between meds and injuries). I wrote it because the mother of the baby wanted the word spread to other families and because I'm a fiction writer who wants to write about meaningful things, not just beach books and spy thrillers. (Not that there isn't a place for pure enjoyment too, it's just not what I write.) Go ahead and spread the word about borderline personality disorder, there are lots of people who need to know.

The book (Stop Walking on Eggshells) is a very helpful book for both the patient and family/friends. We recommend it to our patients and families here at the Eating Disorder Center of Denver. I am cautious about labeling people (especially women who seem to be the target of this diagnosis more than men) BPD because it's been such a misused and misunderstood diagnosis that even therapists have been known to shrug off a difficult patient by sighing, "Oh well...she's a borderline." (As if nothing can be done to improve the relationship between the patient and others.) Also, it's important to understand that many (if not all) women who are diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder also have a significant trauma history and could just as easily fit the diagnostic criteria for PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). If the diagnosis is PTSD rather than BPD, the patient is often treated with more dignity and respect. The BPD patient is very effective at shaping her present interpersonal world to replicate her earlier traumatic relationships. People working with Borderlines often have intense countertransferences that elicit anger, sadism, abusive desires even in the therapist. I think the BPD diagnosis is often misused and is all too often used as a weapon against the patient to "put her in her place" and as retaliation for not making meaningful use of the therapeutic relationship (often tapping into the therapist's own narcissism for not being effective and/or loved by the patient).
Good discussion!

An excellent treatment for Borderline Personality Disorder is called DBT (Dialectacal Behavioral Therapy) which is helpful for anyone, even those without the diagnosis. It's just a good way to learn to hear and communicate. It's a skill building set of behaviors that require practice with other like-minded people. Here's a link to read more about this treatment with workbook and reading suggestions. http://www.borderlinepersonality.ca/dbt.htm

I've just been to Amazon.com looking for this book and the one about helping children of BPD mothers and find the prices to be in the $40 plus range. The paperback of this is apparently not available.

Too bad because my granddaughter is either Bi-Polar or BPD and her 8 month old son is having a hard time. I want so much to help them both, she loves this baby but can't seem to get outside herself and respond to his needs. She is very artistic, has a beautiful singing voice and draws and writes wonderful stuff. She thinks he should just wait while she does these things. She tells him this verbally (of course he doesn't understand but she thinks he should) and he has learned he must get very upset and scream when he wants something. Yet he loves her all the more, lights up like the sun when she returns from work and wants to be right next to her all the time, pats and hugs her, strokes her face and smiles into her eyes. and she responds to that well, returning his affection. It's just when "mommy needs to do things for herself too" that the problem happens. He's tired and needs a nap or hungry for solid food, or to be nursed and he must wait while she eats slowly, or finishes a drawing, etc.

It's very sad to watch and her mother got so upset by it that she essentually abandoned her and the baby by moving out and living elsewhere though she continued financial support, as did I, from a distance. then my granddaughter started calling me, 9 hours away, saying "I'm afraid I'll hurt him." So we had to make other arrangements and she is living now with her father and step-mother who babysits while she works. She's much better but some of it has not cleared up.

My granddaughter is a legal adult (in age only of course) as she throws up to anyone who tries gently to help her see what she's doing with her son. "I'm his mother and I know what he needs." "His doctor said it's ok for him to just cry sometimes." Meanwhile, Grandmas, Nana, and aunts are all nervous as cats listening to this baby begging for his needs to be met. She seems oblivious to that same maternal instinct that tells us he needs assistance NOW. If we offer to help, she says he can wait, but she often will just hand him to someone else and he gets very upset at that. She called to say he was "so cute", she was tired and came in and sat down without taking him from her step mother and he screamed "Ma-ma! and then cried so hard she "had to take him." sigh..... poor little guy, and he is really a very happy and content baby when she isn't around.

Hi Nancy ~ I believe I have the book that you've mentioned, "Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them" by Susan Forward.

I also have another book, I'll have to find it, called "Men Who Can't Love". I will have to pull both of those books out, as you may be right about being companion books for the BOOK STUDY that we are doing now, along with the book that Stephen mentioned, "Understanding the Borderline Mother: Helping Her Children Transcend the Intense, Unpredictable, and Volatile Relationship" by Christine Ann Lawson.

If you would Nancy, please tell us if you believe the person you were involved with has BPD? Or do you believe that the person was a "misogynist"?

It would be interesting to hear whether or not you think the two are closely related to each other symptom-wise.

Doc ~ You explained it perfectly. How did you handle the situation?

Hi Sarah ~ Thank you for your input. I always share whatever I believe will be of interest and that will help others. I also believe that most people are here to find information, Articles, and meet others with whom they can share their interests.

BPD and BP are very wide-spread topics of interest to many people. Especially the members of this Group in particular. So here is the place where everyone will hear all about it! {smiling}. Thank you for your support. I hope you will join us tomorrow night in our BOOK STUDY. Entry to the BOOK STUDY is on the front page of this Group in the FEATURED Articles section.

This DISCUSSION will be continually going on, and will spread to more threads.

Great review Rene! I just ordered the book!

Thanks Nina ~ You can join in on the BOOK STUDY this evening even without the book for now. I am happy to hear that you ordered it! You'll really enjoy it.

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi Pamela ~ I'm bringing your comments down here . . .

" . . . I am cautious about labeling people (especially women who seem to be the target of this diagnosis more than men) BPD because it's been such a misused and misunderstood diagnosis that even therapists have been known to shrug off a difficult patient by sighing, "Oh well...she's a borderline." (As if nothing can be done to improve the relationship between the patient and others.) Also, it's important to understand that many (if not all) women who are diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder also have a significant trauma history and could just as easily fit the diagnostic criteria for PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder). If the diagnosis is PTSD rather than BPD, the patient is often treated with more dignity and respect. The BPD patient is very effective at shaping her present interpersonal world to replicate her earlier traumatic relationships. People working with Borderlines often have intense countertransferences that elicit anger, sadism, abusive desires even in the therapist. I think the BPD diagnosis is often misused and is all too often used as a weapon against the patient to "put her in her place" and as retaliation for not making meaningful use of the therapeutic relationship (often tapping into the therapist's own narcissism for not being effective and/or loved by the patient)." ~ Pamela

Pamela ~ You've pointed out some very good points. The statement that, " . . . even therapists have been known to shrug off a difficult patient by sighing, "Oh well...she's a borderline." (As if nothing can be done to improve the relationship between the patient and others.)" . . . I am not sure about how much this goes on, but I definitely believe that the relationship between the patient and others CAN be improved.

Your statement that, " . . . many (if not all) women who are diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder also have a significant trauma history" ~ Pamela

This holds true for both men and women.

And, yes, many BPD patients do fit the diagnostic criteria for PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) as well.

I'd like to hear from other members here in the Group on the statement that you made that, "If the diagnosis is PTSD rather than BPD, the patient is often treated with more dignity and respect." ~ Pamela

Has anyone here in the Group found this to be TRUE?

Pamela ~ The following statement that you made is a very STRONG statment . . . "The BPD patient is very effective at shaping her present interpersonal world to replicate her earlier traumatic relationships. People working with Borderlines often have intense countertransferences that elicit anger, sadism, abusive desires even in the therapist." ~ Pamela</>

Pamela ~ On what do you base this statement? Where is your Research derived from? Do you have stats? Do you have Testimonies to back this up?

This statement: " I think the BPD diagnosis is often misused and is all too often used as a weapon against the patient to "put her in her place" and as retaliation for not making meaningful use of the therapeutic relationship (often tapping into the therapist's own narcissism for not being effective and/or loved by the patient)." ~ Pamela

How did you come to this conclusion? I'm really curious as to why you feel this way.

Very interesting comments you have made here Pamela. WE thank you for your input.

Sounds like my father. He doesn't have all the traits and he has some others not listed here, but maybe I will have a look at the book you recommended to find other ways of helping myself in dealing with him. Thanks Rene!

What an interesting discussion! I came to see if this would explain the behavior of one of of my relatives, but he doesn't fit several of those descriptions and I've concluded he's simply a control freak. I imagine that some of the coping strategies are similar though.

Hi Audrey ~ You may want to join us this evening for our BOOK STUDY. You can find it in the "FEATURED ARTICLES" section of this Group.

You are welcome. There are also other books available from Eggshells Press, which is based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and they specialize in publishing materials about Borderline Personality Disorder that are very easy to understand. The materials are empathetic, and offer practical suggestions that can be used right away. They are available only by calling 1-888-35-SHELL (357-4355). A listing of those materials will be posted here in the Group on a separate thread.

Thank you Audrey for adding to this DISCUSSION. If you'd like to share any of the traits related to BPD that you believe that your father has with us, please feel free to do so -- there are members here who can possibly help you by telling you how they deal with the particular symptoms in relation to their friends, family members, and significant others.

Some of the traits that you believe your father may have may also be related to something else healthwise ~ either mentally or physically, and your father may need to get a physical check-up to see if everything is checking out fine with him in the area of his physical health. You may want to encourage him to do this.

Please feel free to add any additional insight, information, or ask any questions that you may have.

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi Linda K. ~ Controlling personalities are quite common, and also fit into the framework of several diagnoses. You may want to join us for the BOOK STUDY to see if any other traits that you find in your relative are addressed during the BOOK STUDY. Interesting information comes out of these DISCUSSIONS, and I am sure the BOOK STUDY will offer much more insight into this area of mental health.

I'm glad you have joined in here in the DISCUSSION.

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi Rene ~ It was about 20 years ago, so I've forgotten some of the "intimate" details, but honestly, I'd say this guy was BOTH. He was also an alcoholic, and of course, when he was drinking, the symptoms got much worse. He could be totally sober, though, and tear me to pieces for no reason at all. He was like tap water - cold and hot. You never knew what you were going to get at any given time. It's hard to say for sure if he was mainly an alcoholic, schizophrenic, mysogynistic, or had BPD. I'm inclined to say was all of these things, with the possible exception of schizophrenia... it's hard to tell when you're diagnosing them yourself, but I'd place a high dollar bet that I'm right.

One last question Nancy ~ Was he in the military? Not to put a bad mark on the military forces in the psychological sense, but that is another area that needs to be discussed in this Group. That thought just popped into my mind.

And, Nancy, you probably are right, because you were up close and personal, and would have a better indication of what the symptoms were, and just how extensive the depth of his mental state was or was not.

Alcoholism is a disease that is curable. And, I truly mean that in the sense of "DIS ease". It is a crutch that is used all too often. There is something to be said about the statement, "drowning in sorrow" when it comes to alcoholism.

We will be discussing the topic of the "mysogynistic" personality here in the Group as well, on another thread.

This area and the area of "psychosis" will be posted this weekend on separate threads as separate Articles.

Thank you so much for answering Nancy.

Flit ~ Your comments just jumped out at me, and I do not know how I forgot to respond to what you said . . .

" I used to work with women who had BPD ... it was exhausting.. totally draining" . . . sounds like an interesting book ~ Flit

Working with several people with BPD is extremely exasperating. The key word in your sentence is "used" ~ as in not any more. I'm curious to know if they were under medication at all or seeking Therapy Flit.

Thank you for adding your input. The book is very interesting. Please join in on our BOOK STUDY.

Blessings ~
Rene

Sandy F. ~ Were you able to find the paperback of "Stop Walking on Eggshells" yet? You can probably get it easier by calling one of your nearest bookstores and seeing if they have it or ordering it from them. It usually comes in within 7 days if not before. The retail price of the paperback is $15.95. I'm not sure where I purchased my copy from -- maybe Books-A-Million ~ that's my favorite bookstore ~ outside of Borders and Barnes and Noble of course ~ lol.

Is your Granddaughter on medication or going to Therapy? If not, has anyone suggested that she get medical/Professional help?

How are things right now with her?

Hearing you relay the story was making me jittery. Especially since your Granddaughter thought that she might hurt the baby herself. Was she acting the same way before the baby? Did she show signs of being Bi-Polar or having BPD before having her child?

I'm very interested in hearing more from you.

Blessings ~
Rene

Hi Randi! ~ I am so happy you joined us here! Please do jump in and answer questions that you may see here that could use your input.

Thank you so much for the Website link. Can you also give us the link to the YAHOO Group.

It is very good to hear about your new book that you have coming out in October. Can you give us an EXCERPT here. The members here would really appreciate all of your input.

I will message you.

Blessings ~
Rene

Randi ~ Thank you for providing all of the information above.

Artistic Therapy Members ~ We will conduct our BOOK STUDY on "Stop Walking on Eggshells" by Paul T. Mason, M.S. and Randi Kreger this evening (and every WEDNESDAY) at 7 p.m. EASTERN time. The BOOK STUDY will last until 7:45 p.m.

BE SURE TO JOIN US and JOIN IN! Randi will answer any questions that are put forth in relation to "Borderline Personality Disorder" and the book, "Stop Walking on Eggshells" by Paul T. Mason, M.S. and Randi Kreger.

The BOOK STUDY will continuously remain OPEN for posts at any time thereafter. The BOOK STUDY can be found on the first page of our Group in the "FEATURED ARTICLES" section.

For all members who have contributed to this DISCUSSION on "What is Borderline Personality Disorder?", you will enjoy our BOOK STUDY, and are invited to JOIN IN!

Blessings ~
Rene

I am only going to respond to the questions that applied to a situation I was in with a person I believe possess some of the characteristics of BPD.

1) Do you find yourself concealing your feelings and thoughts because you are afraid of the other person's reaction or because it really does not seem worth it to you to reveal something that may cause a fight or hurt feelings to follow?

Most definitely. When I tried to express my feelings it often came with a look of not understanding and/or being ridiculed. At times, I was "pressured into a corner" and the person not hearing what I was saying (or maybe that's not listening) until I said things he wanted to hear.

2) Do you feel that anything that you say or do will be twisted against you? Are you blamed and criticized for anything and everything that is wrong in the relationship ~ even when it makes no logical sense?

I wasn't blamed for everything (but almost). Everything I said or done (see number 1) was twisted. Then there were additions or subtractions of what was actually said/done and the accusations flew.


4) Do you feel manipulated, controlled, or even lied to sometimes? Do you feel like you are the victim of emotional blackmail?

Very much so.


6) Are you afraid to ask for things in the relationship because you will be told that you are too demanding or that there is something wrong with you? Are you told that your needs are not important?

I was afraid to ask for things because everything that was done (at the time he would say "this is a gift" or "I want to do this for you") was then turned into...but I did this or got you this, etc. therefore you owe me.

8) Are you accused of doing things you never did and saying things you never said? Do you feel misunderstood a great deal of the time, and when you try to explain, do you find that the other person does not believe you?

Most definitely (see the above answers).

9) Are you constantly being put down? When you try to leave the relationship, does the other person try to prevent you from leaving in a variety of ways (anything from declarations of LOVE and PROMISES to change to implicit or explicit threats)?

You have no idea what I went through before finally getting out of the relationship. It was awful and the only thing I can say is I wish I had gotten this book or had this information while I was in the relationship.

Hi Renda ~ I am looking at all of your posts on each DISCUSSION.

This sounds just like my ex-boyfriend. He just doesn't seem to hear what anyone else says and everything is someone elses fault. (Usually mine, but sometimes a friend) When I told him I was seeing someone else he called for weeks (I'm not talking once or twice a day either, 30 times in a few hours) and showed up at my job. I finally called the police and he still called after that. I think I may have to get an injunction to get him to leave me alone!