I am deeply concerned about the raid on the FDLS compound in Texas. I am not a mormon and I get the feeling that something just doesn't smell right about what was done. Do I find the members of this cult weird? Absolutely. Am I a polygamist? Nope, happily married man here.
If you've read my past articles, you know I am for capital punishment of child molesters. I also feel that there has to be a strict adherence to due process, which is afforded all Americans under our constitution. To me rushing in to a community with machine guns, armored carriers, and removing 416 children from their homes based on a phone call from an as of yet unfound victim is Hitlerian.
The Texas State Government would have you believe, they have had someone on the inside for four years. They have not produced said operative to date. Are we to then take from this that the Texas State Government allowed the ongoing abuse of children for four years before doing anything about it? Are we to believe that without the call from a thus far non-existant victim they would have continued to allow this abuse to continue? What the hell was this undercover operative doing? I guess we'll never know because so far they haven't produced him or her.
Interestingly enough, not only can't they find the victim but the accused doesn't even live in the compound. Not only doesn't he live in the compound he doesn't even live in the state of Texas. The accused lives in Arizona. That is a problem for me. If a sixteen year old girl calls the police and says she has been sexually abused by this guy, you go in rescue the girl and arrest her abuser. You don't go in and round up all the kids and not arrest the accused. There in lies the problem, no victim could be found and the accused didn't even live there. How many times has there been an issue with 911 operators that the very next day the recording of the call is all over the media? Where is the 911 recording of the victim's call?
Thus far, I have not heard of a single criminal charge being filed for child abuse. The only thing I've heard is the state is planning to file charges for bigomy. Are you kidding me? Where are all of the activists that fight for gay marriage. I support gay marriage. It is none of my business who people choose to marry even Polygamists. I have heard some of the same people who would flip out if you said gay marriage is unnatural stating polygamy is unnatural. Who are we to say what is or is not unnatural?
I'll ask you this... If you send your child to a private school and someone makes a phone call claiming that the kids that go to that school are being abused, should the government be allowed to take your child from you? If someone makes a call claiming your sister is abusing her kid, should the govenment be allowed to take your child? After all you were raised in the same home and probably share the same values.
I'm not saying none of the children in the FDLS compound were abused. I'm saying if they find say 30 children that were abused does that justify the damage done to the other 386 kids that were ripped from their mother's arms for no reason. Now before you say the end justifies the means. I guarentee you that if the Pennsylvania State Police seize all of the children in Philadelphia the will find many, many more that are being abused than 30. Imagine that you have done nothing wrong to your child and the government kicks in your door with machine guns. Your child is screaming, scared to death, they reach for you but are pulled away. They are forced on to a bus, the entire time being told "Get on the bus or you'll never see your mommy and daddy again." You get on the bus with your baby and after a week of intense questioning, you are told you have to leave because the authorities can't get your child to say what they want them to with you there. Would yousay the end justifies the means? If we allow the civil rights of these weid, polygamists to be violated, who's next?
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Comments: 47
I am hoping the children can be returned to the mothers...
I do NOT agree with children being married off to adults, not in any situation, nor do I agree with children having children (though- that happens all over the place). If there was actual abuse going on, I think it was good that the government stepped in.
But, and this is where I probably differ from a lot of people, I also stand by the belief that many people who live in America have freedom to practice their own religion. Many are protected from modern laws because it's a religious law.
I don't agree with the practice of polygamy. But, I think that if it's between consenting adults, in a situation where the family is provided for without scamming for foodstamps, or government assistance, then the government should leave it as a religious practice, which is protected by the very laws that govern our country.
Again, though- if there is actual abuse going on (and I do realize that underage marriages can be common in the FLDS faith), then that absolutely should be stopped at once.
Recently I read that a woman was arrested because her child went to school with lice.
I read another article stating that if your child has ADHD and requires medication and you send him/her to school without him/her taking that medication, they can take your child from you!
I also read about a mother who was arrested and her children taken away because she got out of her car in front of a shopping center to take her older kids to put money in the salvation army can and left her 2 year old asleep in the car.
In each case there should have be some education, yes, but were those kids being abused? neglected? Should they have been taken away from their parents?
I keep my same attitude about the ccult and the compound. I have no problem with them having multiple wives but when it comes to a child who is underage I draw the line and have no tolerance for those who abuse kids that way. Religious freedoms to me stop at the line of the law. It is said that many of the children call women mother who are not their biological mother. If their real mother is on the compound I find that horrible. I do agree though that with the life styles the children have lived being subjected to this open investigation will produce deep emotional scars.
My brother went back to his attorney and filed for full custody of his daughter. The court gave him custody after his ex testified that the child should get married.
Not when it comes to allegations of child abuse.
Most states have mandatory reporting laws that shield accusers such as doctors and teachers.
In most states the burden of proof is on the accused to prove the abuse did not happen rather that on the state to prove that it did.
Many child abuse allegations are handled as civil actions, where the court is charged with looking after the "best interests of the child" rather than criminal actions.
The burden of proof is always less in civil actions that criminal actions. (see OJ Simpson)
Polygamy is illegal in all 50 states.
In Texas, it is illegal for anyone under 16 to marry.
It is illegal to know of a crime and not report it, particularly child abuse.
Please do not consider these remarks to suggest that I condone the way child abuse complaints are handled. There are numerous web sites that deal with perceived abuses by child protection agencies covering many states, not just Texas.
There are many law and order issues with which one might legitimately find fault with Texas but on this one, Texas is running with the herd.
The evidence was there but those in charge of overseeing their welfare were negligent. Happens all the time.
Failings found over baby's murder
BBC - Social workers failed properly to follow up child abuse allegations about a baby from Swansea who was later murdered, a report has found. Eight days before Aaron Gilbert was killed by his mother's partner in May 2005,
an anonymous caller complained about the way he was being treated
source:http://www.fassit.co.uk/aaron_gilbert.htm
INDIANAPOLIS (AP) — A prosecutor said Indiana's child welfare system failed a 3-year-old girl beaten to death four weeks after being returned to her birth mother and that foster parents and state case workers would be interviewed to find out why
source:http://www.wsbt.com/news/indiana/11967151.html
I remember on CNN where some parents prayed as a cure to their sick child. The girl died.
Yeah, keep government meddling away.
Me, I say better safe than hundreds of kids killed by a cult.
The way these kids were living was not normal and pregnant girls as young as 13 is not normal. You think there is no problem here? Wake up!
Who can tell which child was not abused. I think you are way wrong. If a step father beats only his step son, the authorities have the right to take his biological kids too. There is ABUSE, what part of abuse don't you get?
Sorry dude in this case the villain is the child abuser not the government in trying to prevent further abuse.
You're not a member of NAMBLA, are you?
However, if there was, it absolutely should be stopped.
I wonder what took so long? I think there is a great deal we are not being told.
Now, I can't stand child molesters, and believe they are untreatable. I have worked with maybe hundreds of them in the homeless population, and I firmly believe nothing will change that compulsion.
I am concerned about the children. I hope they are all going to get through this alright. Either way, they will be affected. I am quite certain there must be plenty of them who are "special needs."
I can't stand the thought of these women using up tax dollars and screwing the people of Texas. That is not right.
I agree with Heather up there. IF there was abuse, then it needed to be stopped and immediately. Someone has to take care of our children! Good God! To abuse under the name of "God"-and people call me an atheist just because I believe the Bible is used to control others-mainly women. Well folks! There is your evidence!
After 9/11, everyone acted surprised to learn about the lives of women in the Middle East. I wasn't surprised because I had read about it years before. And I knew it was a whole lot worse than those people knew.
I later read about the FLDS. I was astounded to learn that the FLDS practices exactly what goes on in the Middle East. It's been happening right under our noses, and we did nothing for years, maybe because the authorities wanted to avoid the appearance of religious persecution.
So you (plural) can sympathize with these people all you want, but you are only showing your ignorance of the real situation when you do. You have no idea what you're talking about. Please read up on this before giving opinions based on ignorance.
And actually, is really frightening.
Someone accused of child abuse is frequently guilty until proven innocent, if they CAN. In a real instance that I know of (personally), the children who were being abused denied the abuse during the investigation. There were symptoms of it around the house, everyone believed it was likely, but because of the children's denial, nothing was done.
Someone in social services, given enough latitude, might be very interested in removing children during an investigation, regardless of the harm, because they would rather prevent anything else rather than let it continue.
States which allow that much latitude create what we're seeing on a large scale in Texas every day. Parents are accused, children removed, then the onus is on the parents to prove no abuse actually occurred, or that they weren't the abusers.
In abuse, you can be guilty until proven innocent, and will suffer as such, sometimes even after your innocence. After all, just because they couldn't PROVE you abused your child doesn't mean you didn't...
I say lets finish what was started and get to the truth.